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Thread: What is going on with Sebastian Vettel

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    What I find interesting is that Sebs been taken out by....tadaa....red bull drivers.
    Now ric is ahead of vet in points. Sure seems like a dark plan by rb to take Ferrari drivers out.
    The no2 rb paves the way and ric gets the points......just sayen...
    I had the same thought myself, and that would fit Kvyat's behaviour earlier in the season when he ruined two of Seb's races! Those RBs need their horns chopped.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by f412 View Post
    Hey..hey enough with the blame game..i bet last year you were probably calling kimi calling obsolete.. And now vettels the bad guy.. in his defense,the footage From our point of view it sure looked like vettel made that mistake..but if you look at his onboard you can cleary see he had no idea that there were two other cars beside him.he was right behind nico ahead of verstapen and he was also following a line which was wider than nicos..clearly leaving a space for one car.. And visibility in an f1 cars cockpit is very limited..you can barely see whats beside you..you should know that..where as max clearly could see the two cars ahead and taking the turn before he plunged into that gap..his head must have been in the clouds if he thought a gap was going to magically open because of his awesomeness
    Four time world champion should know better!


    http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html
    Last edited by hrc5555; 1st September 2016 at 21:28.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Stop putting blame on any one of our drivers...

    If it was not for Mad Max trying one of his stupid moves, with a car over the curbs we'd probably have a much better result today, instead not only he did this again, but we end up asking who of our drivers is to blame?
    This is ridiculous..

    As Vettel is saying, it looks like Max has nothing to do with first corner accident, it was Vettels misjudgement.
    Kimi is again robbed for podium by his teammate!


    http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    +1, and I'm quite surprised that most people on the forum seem to think it was Seb's fault as much as Vertsappen's. Races aren't won at the first corner, especially at Spa.
    Hmmm...


    http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html

  5. #125
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    Where are Greig and Rob, I would like to hear their comment for our "crash kid"?

  6. #126
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    Cultural differences. Vettel apologizing to Raikonnen by no means is a signal which should be interpreted (as Anglo erroneously do) that he is accepting responsibility for the incident. It simply means, I am sorry this happened (whether it was, or wasn't my fault). I recall many years ago an incident with Kubica, when Vettel apologized to the team that he was associated with something Kubica (in RBR and mine as well opinions) instigated. Pole and his fans however interpreted in very self-serving manner Vettel's apology as an admission of guilt, which of course was lacking any sensitivity how a different culture expressing itself in such situation.

    Vettel, if he would feel responsible, he would say so explicitly, and without ambiguity. One would know that right away, however this is not what happened here. My personal view is, that he has nothing to apologize. Not to team, not to Raikonnen, and definitely not to MV. I take it that he was just as victim as Kimi is. All in all I am quite happy that Monza is here, and we get to talk about something else.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Cultural differences. Vettel apologizing to Raikonnen by no means is a signal which should be interpreted (as Anglo erroneously do) that he is accepting responsibility for the incident. It simply means, I am sorry this happened (whether it was, or wasn't my fault). I recall many years ago an incident with Kubica, when Vettel apologized to the team that he was associated with something Kubica (in RBR and mine as well opinions) instigated. Pole and his fans however interpreted in very self-serving manner Vettel's apology as an admission of guilt, which of course was lacking any sensitivity how a different culture expressing itself in such situation.

    Vettel, if he would feel responsible, he would say so explicitly, and without ambiguity. One would know that right away, however this is not what happened here. My personal view is, that he has nothing to apologize. Not to team, not to Raikonnen, and definitely not to MV. I take it that he was just as victim as Kimi is. All in all I am quite happy that Monza is here, and we get to talk about something else.

    Monza will not solve the problem that we have highly rated and really expensive driver who is not performing, it is the only thing what is bothering me! And dont start again with bad luck, this is not a bad luck, these are mistakes from four time world champion (a lots of mistakes!!)

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    Monza will not solve the problem that we have highly rated and really expensive driver who is not performing, it is the only thing what is bothering me! And dont start again with bad luck, this is not a bad luck, these are mistakes from four time world champion (a lots of mistakes!!)
    Who the hell says vettel is highly rated?.. Nobody seems to think that at all ...he is one among the least rated drivers i would say.. Even So i wish all the best for him.. I will keep rooting for him.The same way our ferrari fans have been sticking with the ferrari team..even when the team has failed many times to achieve a good result..

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    Four time world champion should know better!


    http://www.crash.net/f1/news/233215/...t1-bungle.html

    Regardless of what he said..seb took a wider line compared to nico who was ahead,there was clearly space for one and a half car on the inside iline...(check the onboard video from vettels car) and ofcourse he s supposed to apologize ..other wise he would look like a douche... cause cleary to us that even looked like vettel crashed into kimi on purpose...but thats not the case...and then again this all happend in a couple of milliseconds ..or are they supposed stop their car and think deeply and come to a decision before committing to a corner ??

  10. #130
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    I wonder why Seb has been so grumpy on the team radio..

  11. #131
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    Ain't gonna lie, we got the least cheerful duo when it comes to team radio Would guess Seb got the swearing from Kimi.

    In all seriousness, i don't really think anything is wrong. The car is in a no mans land in some tracks and a tad behind RedBull in others. Not to mention the gearbox problems. Think the characteristics of the car make it look like a struggle for the drivers, as it doesn't really have strengths, just all around 'decent'. When it's a fast track, Mercs dominate. When it's a high DF track, the RedBull manage to challenge the Mercs leaving us quite behind.

    We just don't have our windows of opportunities that shine a ray of light on the season, like we had last year.

  12. #132
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    What is going on with Sebastian Vettel??

    Is this counting for bad luck too?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    What is going on with Sebastian Vettel??

    Is this counting for bad luck too?
    Rather it was bad luck for Rosberg...
    not gonna change my profile picture

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katu View Post
    Rather it was bad luck for Rosberg...
    http://www.crash.net/f1/news/234123/...tboned-me.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    What is going on with Sebastian Vettel??

    Is this counting for bad luck too?
    He just sucks this year. First reliability and then some mistakes. Either way season to forget for him. Ves will soon overscore him

  16. #136
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    So of to Japan and Seb starting off with a 3 place grid penalty & a2pt. penalty to boot ! I guess it's GO Kimi !!! His bad luck this season is second only to Lewis in spite of the fact he's probably going to WDC anyway. There's 8 cars on the track with Merc engines and Lewis' blows up?

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    There's 8 cars on the track with Merc engines and Lewis' blows up?

    O dear
    Maybe it's providence paying him back for taking on all those power units in Belgium.
    If the penalties don't get you Lewis maybe lady luck will


    Forza Jules

  18. #138
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    I said at the time, he is simply not in the same class as Alonso. The team has let him down yes, but also he has been disappointing.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    I said at the time, he is simply not in the same class as Alonso. The team has let him down yes, but also he has been disappointing.
    What do you mean the team has let him down?

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    What is going on with Sebastian Vettel??

    Is this counting for bad luck too?
    The folks on here who always get on the team for not performing want something good to happen. You are just slagging off a driver.

    Ferrari has a better chance of improving the car than getting Alonso back. You'll have to deal with that.

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    What do you mean the team has let him down?
    He's had bad reliability and strategy.

    But people should also remember he was picked up from Red Bull after getting an absolute caning from Ricciardo. Now I'm not saying that is Vettel at his peak, but its not uncommon for him to be vastly inconsistent. Even in his Red Bull years he was never doing as good of a job as Alonso did in inferior machinery. So i'm not especially surprised.

    Now i'm not saying he's a bad choice, he was the best choice available assuming Alonso wanted out. But I can't held but feel the driver swap has been one of many elements in Ferrari's struggles this year. Ferrari had arguably the most competitive car we've seen in a decade in 2015/2016, I would have loved to see Fernando driving it. He's wasted at McLaren.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    He's had bad reliability and strategy.

    But people should also remember he was picked up from Red Bull after getting an absolute caning from Ricciardo. Now I'm not saying that is Vettel at his peak, but its not uncommon for him to be vastly inconsistent. Even in his Red Bull years he was never doing as good of a job as Alonso did in inferior machinery. So i'm not especially surprised.

    Now i'm not saying he's a bad choice, he was the best choice available assuming Alonso wanted out. But I can't held but feel the driver swap has been one of many elements in Ferrari's struggles this year. Ferrari had arguably the most competitive car we've seen in a decade in 2015/2016, I would have loved to see Fernando driving it. He's wasted at McLaren.
    You seem to want to give a fair assessment of things, but I cannot read your post without coming to the conclusion that Vettel is an overrated has-been. I'd like to understand you so please help me with two things:

    1. "Even in his Red Bull years he was never doing as good of a job as Alonso did in inferior machinery."

    As Tifosi, it was easy to think Seb was only as good as his car when he was at Red Bull running away with all those titles. Is there data that indicates a pattern of his inconsistency? Did we ever have a chance to see him in an inferior Red Bull long enough to conclude he does not do well without a good car?

    2. "But people should also remember he was picked up from Red Bull after getting an absolute caning from Ricciardo."

    I am not sure how him getting beat by Daniel in 2014 has anything to do with his performance now. By this logic, Daniel should be struggling this season and Ferrari would have ended up signing Kvyat.

    Cheers.

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    You seem to want to give a fair assessment of things, but I cannot read your post without coming to the conclusion that Vettel is an overrated has-been. I'd like to understand you so please help me with two things:

    1. "Even in his Red Bull years he was never doing as good of a job as Alonso did in inferior machinery."

    As Tifosi, it was easy to think Seb was only as good as his car when he was at Red Bull running away with all those titles. Is there data that indicates a pattern of his inconsistency? Did we ever have a chance to see him in an inferior Red Bull long enough to conclude he does not do well without a good car?

    2. "But people should also remember he was picked up from Red Bull after getting an absolute caning from Ricciardo."

    I am not sure how him getting beat by Daniel in 2014 has anything to do with his performance now. By this logic, Daniel should be struggling this season and Ferrari would have ended up signing Kvyat.

    Cheers.

    He may be a bit overrated. I don't think he's a has been. I'd say his current performances are as strong as his previous.

    I would say in the years that Red Bull only had a moderate advantage, instead of a supreme advantage, 2010 and 2012, Alonso got very close.

    Also, while Kvyat did get close to Ricciardo in 2015, it was nothing at all like 2014 in which was a huge beating of over 70 points.

    Vettel is a good driver when you put him in a situation that he has the best car, can qualify well and doesn't face much challenge. But he clearly gets frustrated. He's spent his entire time in F1 mostly in cars capable of either pole or the front row. Starting on row 3 behind other cars and you can see the frustration building, which has resulted a lot of desperation in his driving this year.

    The thing is were is the light at the end of the tunnel for him? Ferrari seems more in a rebuilding period to me than ready to emerge at the front.

  24. #144
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    Team Ferrari was and is Seb's F1 dream come true ! Unfortunately gearboxes and all the other car probs. turned the dream into a nightmare. I do believe all those pole starts he was blessed with in a top car at the time made each race a Sunday Drive. I believe Seb's got what it takes to a winner, he just needs a car that got what it takes to get him there, especially pole pos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Team Ferrari was and is Seb's F1 dream come true ! Unfortunately gearboxes and all the other car probs. turned the dream into a nightmare. I do believe all those pole starts he was blessed with in a top car at the time made each race a Sunday Drive. I believe Seb's got what it takes to a winner, he just needs a car that got what it takes to get him there, especially pole pos.
    promote vet to sauber.............

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreenivaschinne View Post
    promote vet to sauber.............
    You made my day!!

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    He may be a bit overrated. I don't think he's a has been. I'd say his current performances are as strong as his previous.

    I would say in the years that Red Bull only had a moderate advantage, instead of a supreme advantage, 2010 and 2012, Alonso got very close.

    Also, while Kvyat did get close to Ricciardo in 2015, it was nothing at all like 2014 in which was a huge beating of over 70 points.
    There's much to be discussed about this: the Ferraris of 2010 and 2012 were not inferior, how good is Kvyat when he beat the guy who beat Vettel--and as a corollary, what being beaten by Kvyat says about Daniel. I don't think his performance in 2014 and relative to Alonso are indicators of whether Vettel is fit to drive a Ferrari to success. Nor do those things sufficiently prove his caliber as a driver overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Vettel is a good driver when you put him in a situation that he has the best car, can qualify well and doesn't face much challenge. But he clearly gets frustrated. He's spent his entire time in F1 mostly in cars capable of either pole or the front row. Starting on row 3 behind other cars and you can see the frustration building, which has resulted a lot of desperation in his driving this year.

    The thing is were is the light at the end of the tunnel for him? Ferrari seems more in a rebuilding period to me than ready to emerge at the front.
    This I can understand well. I agree with these points but would nuance "desperation" with a good amount of eagerness. On the last sentence, Seb knew what he was getting into in 2015, which was a Ferrari in the process of rebuilding.

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    Vettel wants to do what Schumi did with Ferrari, while Schumi had Todt and Vettel has Arrivabene, Schumi had Brawn, Vettel has nobody in that department.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    There's much to be discussed about this: the Ferraris of 2010 and 2012 were not inferior, how good is Kvyat when he beat the guy who beat Vettel--and as a corollary, what being beaten by Kvyat says about Daniel. I don't think his performance in 2014 and relative to Alonso are indicators of whether Vettel is fit to drive a Ferrari to success. Nor do those things sufficiently prove his caliber as a driver overall.
    Kvyat never really beat Ricciardo so its a moot point. He had better reliability and luck, that wasn't the case with Ricciardo and Vettel who just demolished him on outright performances. Ricciardo is one of, if not the strongest driver in F1 today. Him and Alonso would be my top two. So there is no real issue understanding why he beat Seb. Especially if you assume it was compounded for whatever reason.

    Like I said, I'd put a known benchmark in the second seat next to Vettel. Kimi's form is to up and down.

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    You seem to want to give a fair assessment of things, but I cannot read your post without coming to the conclusion that Vettel is an overrated has-been. I'd like to understand you so please help me with two things:

    1. "Even in his Red Bull years he was never doing as good of a job as Alonso did in inferior machinery."

    As Tifosi, it was easy to think Seb was only as good as his car when he was at Red Bull running away with all those titles. Is there data that indicates a pattern of his inconsistency? Did we ever have a chance to see him in an inferior Red Bull long enough to conclude he does not do well without a good car?

    2. "But people should also remember he was picked up from Red Bull after getting an absolute caning from Ricciardo."

    I am not sure how him getting beat by Daniel in 2014 has anything to do with his performance now. By this logic, Daniel should be struggling this season and Ferrari would have ended up signing Kvyat.

    Cheers.
    How about this,
    Kimi has been doing just great, is it possible this affects Vettel's performance ?
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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