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Thread: Why Raikkonen is delivering for Ferrari...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariSteve View Post
    in all the times Schumi and Rubens raced together. How many times did rubens "pull over"? what.. twice??
    not as many as your biased post seems to hint at.
    Twice too many! Did or had to move over at any moment is what kills my respect for what they had going. How many times did Schumy humiliate himself and Ferrari by handing the 1st place trophy on the podium over to the true winner Rubens? what.. once?? What's biased here is all the faithfull Rubens fans always bad mouthing Schumy at the time. If you are a true Ferrari fan you have to admitt to two drivers on the team not just say Rubens #1 and forget Shumy also drove.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Thank you! You are right again. Where would Ferrari have been without a willing wing man like Rubens to keep Shumy happy. Where would Shumy have been without the midjet on the radio and Rubens moving over for the $$ ? If today was the old "Ferrari " days Nico would have had to block Ricciardi and move over for Lewis. The F1 sport is just not the same without Rubenization !
    Rubens was a great team mate while he was getting the cash and did what was asked of him, ie. moving for the #1 driver who of course could never be him and was rightly Schumacher.
    Of course, once he left the team he became a sore whiner which lost him a lot of points, instead of being a class person, like say oh I don't know, Irvine ? who never did the same.

    As for Mercedes, I prefer they do keep doing what they do, if they crash one another every single race it only is better for my team, and only bolsters my argument which is, one should never let an equal status between two drivers but they should have a clear status #1/2, which of course should stand to reason as to how who is who.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Twice too many! Did or had to move over at any moment is what kills my respect for what they had going. How many times did Schumy humiliate himself and Ferrari by handing the 1st place trophy on the podium over to the true winner Rubens? what.. once?? What's biased here is all the faithfull Rubens fans always bad mouthing Schumy at the time. If you are a true Ferrari fan you have to admitt to two drivers on the team not just say Rubens #1 and forget Shumy also drove.
    He was asked to move and he did his duty to the team that so handsomely paid him to drive for.
    It is really -that- simple.

    As for Michael , what he did, offering the prize to him was a class act, but you think it was humiliating.

    Speaks volumes.

    P.S. you should also remember that under FIA rules, what Schumacher did was against said rules. But Michael did it anyways.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Sounds like the Shumi Bari thread.
    Where'd Kimi go?
    I think Ferrari has clear #1 #2 drivers.
    Mikey, Alonso, Vettel..I think Kimi accepts this, but
    he still has what it takes to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    He was asked to move and he did his duty to the team that so handsomely paid him to drive for.
    It is really -that- simple.

    As for Michael , what he did, offering the prize to him was a class act, but you think it was humiliating.

    Speaks volumes.

    P.S. you should also remember that under FIA rules, what Schumacher did was against said rules. But Michael did it anyways.
    Which fan here can say they witnessed Rubens sign a contract saying he had to move over "Let him pass " the term the midjet used, whenever told, that's what were paying you to do, not win races, or come in ahead of your teamate . You Rubens are signing to move over whenever we tell you to, not drive for Ferrari to win. After all we will even pay you, not like all the other F1 drivers who drive for free! You will get a salary!
    Ok I see your point with regards to Schumy handing Rubens the trophy as a "Class act! " You are trying to make me and anyone else reading your post have a good laugh! You can't be serious. Thank you for your sense of humor, it speaks volumes! Also you are again on the money reminding me how Shumy respected FIA rules! He knew he was above the law, just ask Todt the legend, or Ross. This being a Kimi thread I'd like to say he's delivering big time because he is a champion driver allowed to race against everyone including Seb! He dosn't have to depend on a little help from his friends. I actually believe the #1, #2 driver standard @ Ferrari is being put aside rightfully so. Except maybe throwing in a bad gearbox or two in Seb's car to help Kimi along.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Which fan here can say they witnessed Rubens sign a contract saying he had to move over "Let him pass " the term the midjet used, whenever told, that's what were paying you to do, not win races, or come in ahead of your teamate . You Rubens are signing to move over whenever we tell you to, not drive for Ferrari to win. After all we will even pay you, not like all the other F1 drivers who drive for free! You will get a salary!
    Ok I see your point with regards to Schumy handing Rubens the trophy as a "Class act! " You are trying to make me and anyone else reading your post have a good laugh! You can't be serious. Thank you for your sense of humor, it speaks volumes! Also you are again on the money reminding me how Shumy respected FIA rules! He knew he was above the law, just ask Todt the legend, or Ross. This being a Kimi thread I'd like to say he's delivering big time because he is a champion driver allowed to race against everyone including Seb! He dosn't have to depend on a little help from his friends. I actually believe the #1, #2 driver standard @ Ferrari is being put aside rightfully so. Except maybe throwing in a bad gearbox or two in Seb's car to help Kimi along.
    you getting very very boring with Rubens this, Rubens that. He signed a contract he was happy to follow team instructions. End of the day, he and his management team couldnt find anything wrong and happy to . sign. Its gone, done history. Feel sorry for you Brembo. Life to short to keep tredging up the past over how you feel Rubens was victimized at Ferrari. Just because you didnt like fact that Micheal won WDC and alot of wins and Rubens didnt, doesnt mean anything. Yes Ferrari was Micheal, but Rubens was there, he had chances, he signed contracts wish said "to do as the team ask" Same as any contract, same as my work contract, if i dont follow rules, can lead to disciplinary and then dismissal.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    you getting very very boring with Rubens this, Rubens that. He signed a contract he was happy to follow team instructions. End of the day, he and his management team couldnt find anything wrong and happy to . sign. Its gone, done history. Feel sorry for you Brembo. Life to short to keep tredging up the past over how you feel Rubens was victimized at Ferrari. Just because you didnt like fact that Micheal won WDC and alot of wins and Rubens didnt, doesnt mean anything. Yes Ferrari was Micheal, but Rubens was there, he had chances, he signed contracts wish said "to do as the team ask" Same as any contract, same as my work contract, if i dont follow rules, can lead to disciplinary and then dismissal.
    OK ! Finally someone comes foward who saw the signed contract, and said Rubens was happy when he signed it.
    It was very misleading here where many fans said all Rubens did was moan and complain where as you say he was happy to sign up and move over. And your right again , he did have chances and won races. I was there when he beat Schumy @ Indy. Austria 2002 Rubens kind of won that one also!
    Fast foward to 2016, I find F1 races much better except for the fact it's not Ferrari up front, but over at Merc the two drivers have great cars as was the case back then. The difference being both drivers are allowed to actually race each other for the win. What a difference ! Who knows if Ferrari had the cars this season would Kimi and Seb be racing each other or would Rubenization be put into effect ? Kimi is for sure delivering for Ferrari! It would be shamefull if he had to move over if it was Ferrari in WDC, WCC contention. I wonder how quickly or easy it would be for say a Seb fan or a Kimi fan to get over it if there guy was held back?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    OK ! Finally someone comes foward who saw the signed contract, and said Rubens was happy when he signed it.
    It was very misleading here where many fans said all Rubens did was moan and complain where as you say he was happy to sign up and move over. And your right again , he did have chances and won races. I was there when he beat Schumy @ Indy. Austria 2002 Rubens kind of won that one also!
    Fast foward to 2016, I find F1 races much better except for the fact it's not Ferrari up front, but over at Merc the two drivers have great cars as was the case back then. The difference being both drivers are allowed to actually race each other for the win. What a difference ! Who knows if Ferrari had the cars this season would Kimi and Seb be racing each other or would Rubenization be put into effect ? Kimi is for sure delivering for Ferrari! It would be shamefull if he had to move over if it was Ferrari in WDC, WCC contention. I wonder how quickly or easy it would be for say a Seb fan or a Kimi fan to get over it if there guy was held back?
    As I told you, times and times again, I honestly don't give a damn, about what any other team does, or does not do for that matter, I only care for Ferrari and Ferrari only.
    Just like I don't particularly care who driver wins as long as he wears Ferrari colors.

    Really that simple.
    And yes, I understand your pain but honestly, you're boring when you have this obsession, with people like Schumacher, Ross Brawn and so forth who served this team, and gave us what has been named the dream team, because simply was one of the best teams that not just Ferrari, but the Sport in itself has seen, JUST BECAUSE RUBENS was not in equal status; how could he be, he simply was not a match for Michael.
    I honestly don't care if you cannot see it, everyone with two bits of brains can.

    You can move on, or not, in this forum noone expects you to, be the graphical Rubens advocate we all know you to be. Talk about gimps, Schumys, and all that jazz.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    IMHO Kimi is doing a fine job for the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    As I told you, times and times again, I honestly don't give a damn, about what any other team does, or does not do for that matter, I only care for Ferrari and Ferrari only.
    Just like I don't particularly care who driver wins as long as he wears Ferrari colors.

    Really that simple.
    And yes, I understand your pain but honestly, you're boring when you have this obsession, with people like Schumacher, Ross Brawn and so forth who served this team, and gave us what has been named the dream team, because simply was one of the best teams that not just Ferrari, but the Sport in itself has seen, JUST BECAUSE RUBENS was not in equal status; how could he be, he simply was not a match for Michael.
    I honestly don't care if you cannot see it, everyone with two bits of brains can.

    You can move on, or not, in this forum noone expects you to, be the graphical Rubens advocate we all know you to be. Talk about gimps, Schumys, and all that jazz.
    Thank you for being so understanding of my preference of Rubens over Schumy, and your interest, reading all my posts to the point of boardome. Anyone as you say with two bits of brains can just pass over any post they don't care to read. It's really that simple!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Thank you for being so understanding of my preference of Rubens over Schumy, and your interest, reading all my posts to the point of boardome. Anyone as you say with two bits of brains can just pass over any post they don't care to read. It's really that simple!
    True !
    However I never said I don't care to read your posts ;)
    I did say that everyone with 2 bits of brain could see that Rubens was inferior to Michael and if you believe otherwise by all means please elaborate.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    True !
    However I never said I don't care to read your posts ;)
    I did say that everyone with 2 bits of brain could see that Rubens was inferior to Michael and if you believe otherwise by all means please elaborate.
    Rubens was forced to be #2 driver at all times not to ever give Shumy a run for the money. Remember they both had great cars. Inferior is a tough word seeing how he had Ross Todt and Schumy to beat besides the other teams drivers. Again Seb and Kimi are allowed to race, so far! Which one would you like to see Rubenized? F1 is the sport I follow as do you. Nico & Lewis are currently the two top drivers. Which one should be considered the inferior driver and held back? Your not anti Ferrari if you answer !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Rubens was forced to be #2 driver at all times not to ever give Shumy a run for the money.
    Rubens should have left Ferrari if he was "forced" to be a #2 driver. Schumi was a far superior driver than Rubens ever was. Period.
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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    Rubens loved Ferrari and stood to be with Ferrari. Schumy needede the help of a wing man, so for the team's sake Rubens drove for Ferrari even under the not so great circumstances. Look how Alonso , Seb, Kimi all jumped at the chance to be on the greatest team in all F1. I'm glad Ferrari resigned Kimi he's delivering big time in a not so great car without the help of a wing man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Rubens loved Ferrari and stood to be with Ferrari. Schumy needede the help of a wing man, so for the team's sake Rubens drove for Ferrari even under the not so great circumstances. Look how Alonso , Seb, Kimi all jumped at the chance to be on the greatest team in all F1. I'm glad Ferrari resigned Kimi he's delivering big time in a not so great car without the help of a wing man.
    Oops,

    You really must have had a very bad time 2000-2004..

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Rubens was forced to be #2 driver at all times not to ever give Shumy a run for the money. Remember they both had great cars. Inferior is a tough word seeing how he had Ross Todt and Schumy to beat besides the other teams drivers. Again Seb and Kimi are allowed to race, so far! Which one would you like to see Rubenized? F1 is the sport I follow as do you. Nico & Lewis are currently the two top drivers. Which one should be considered the inferior driver and held back? Your not anti Ferrari if you answer !
    Rubens loved ferrari money if he stayed under the conditions you say he did ;)
    Not the team .
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Rubens loved ferrari money if he stayed under the conditions you say he did ;)
    Not the team .
    For sure! Along with being on the best F1 team on earth he got paid! OK like Shumy did , Rubens should have drove for free also. Money is meaningless in F1 ask any driver. Besides Ferrari fed their team plenty of pasta al dente!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wappad View Post
    Oops,

    You really must have had a very bad time 2000-2004..
    Well it was tough, especially here @ a Ferrari site where literally everyone here cursed the day Rubens was born! Twobens, the moaner, the pensioner, the Chin, oh! Wait that was Schumy! I have to believe Shumy's fans were very insecure at the time knowing about team orders and all the preference Shumy got. Today we have Seb and Kimi, thank goodness there's none of that hatred between Shumy fans and well, me. Either driver with a win or a podium is cheered and wellcomed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Well it was tough, especially here @ a Ferrari site where literally everyone here cursed the day Rubens was born! Twobens, the moaner, the pensioner, the Chin, oh! Wait that was Schumy! I have to believe Shumy's fans were very insecure at the time knowing about team orders and all the preference Shumy got. Today we have Seb and Kimi, thank goodness there's none of that hatred between Shumy fans and well, me. Either driver with a win or a podium is cheered and wellcomed!
    I liked both of them at the time.. Cheering Rubinho and Schumi all the way..Tears of joy after Hockenheim '00 and, sitting in the grandstand, so happy the team 'secured' Schumi's
    victory the same year in the rain in Montreal.

    Cannot believe REAL Ferrari- fans curse the day one of their drivers was born.

    I like your last sentence

    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by wappad View Post
    I liked both of them at the time.. Cheering Rubinho and Schumi all the way..Tears of joy after Hockenheim '00 and, sitting in the grandstand, so happy the team 'secured' Schumi's
    victory the same year in the rain in Montreal.

    Cannot believe REAL Ferrari- fans curse the day one of their drivers was born.

    I like your last sentence

    Forza Ferrari
    Great post ! Knowing you cheered Rubino and Schumy brings tears of joy today !

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    Quote Originally Posted by durden View Post


    Kimi would agree. One of my favorite Kimi quotes is "It doesn't matter if I am second or 10th, it makes no difference, I'd rather be probably out of second and third place so I don't have to go to the prize-giving. It makes no difference to be second or fifth if you don't win."
    that's pretty ignorant because it clearly does make a difference with the distribution of cash for the teams

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    For sure! Along with being on the best F1 team on earth he got paid! OK like Shumy did , Rubens should have drove for free also. Money is meaningless in F1 ask any driver. Besides Ferrari fed their team plenty of pasta al dente!
    Rubens was handsomely paid for his services.
    Which ,in short, were to do what he was told, to the best of his abilities.
    So that included, to move aside , when, or if, the team principal of time told him to, for whatever the reason, for the #1 of the team (as #1 was seen fit).

    Apparently , you believe that Ferrari was run as a democracy. Common mistake that is made in every corporation.
    It is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Well it was tough, especially here @ a Ferrari site where literally everyone here cursed the day Rubens was born! Twobens, the moaner, the pensioner, the Chin, oh! Wait that was Schumy! I have to believe Shumy's fans were very insecure at the time knowing about team orders and all the preference Shumy got. Today we have Seb and Kimi, thank goodness there's none of that hatred between Shumy fans and well, me. Either driver with a win or a podium is cheered and wellcomed!
    Noone cursed Rubens. However when he left Ferrari and -then- started saying several things that were, distasteful, many fans of the team came to comment.

    Perhaps you thought these fans would shrug.
    I guess they did not.

    Then again, you are carrying bitterness over things you should not. Food for thought.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Rubens was handsomely paid for his services.
    Which ,in short, were to do what he was told, to the best of his abilities.
    So that included, to move aside , when, or if, the team principal of time told him to, for whatever the reason, for the #1 of the team (as #1 was seen fit).

    Apparently , you believe that Ferrari was run as a democracy. Common mistake that is made in every corporation.
    It is not.


    Noone cursed Rubens. However when he left Ferrari and -then- started saying several things that were, distasteful, many fans of the team came to comment.

    Perhaps you thought these fans would shrug.
    I guess they did not.

    Then again, you are carrying bitterness over things you should not. Food for thought.
    Fans should stop the bitterness towards Rubens being unhappy over say Austria 2002, BTW he was still driving for Ferrari then . And taking pay was a little strange for a Ferrari driver either #1 or #2. Not just food for thought, they ate good @ Ferrari.

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    Maybe it's because Raikkonen doesn't really care that much about finishing 4th just off the podium unlike Vettel who has no hope for the championship anyway so he just wants to try to win races whenever the team lets him by not going for weird strategies? And lately this Ferrari is only ever good at starts. You do what you have to do by T1 at the start or you are stuck where ever you are. If you put Raikkonen and Vettel behind same cars, Vettel is more likely to overtake than Raikkonen. Numerous times Raikkonen have gotten stuck behind a Force India, Williams or Red Bull over these two years when Vettel overtook that driver or even his teammate up ahead. So maybe it's just the ambition that makes the difference. It's not like points here and there are as important for a driver as wins or podiums if they want to win championships like Vettel do, not much point in playing it safe for them.
    Then again who knows what's going through their heads. Maybe Raikkonen is more ambitious than Vettel contrary to evidence somehow, and there're other reasons for their current situation...

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    Kimi just does the job. Vettel is trying to play politics and 'build' the team. The thing is, who says he's even any good at that? The team that he won with at Red Bull was in place before he even joined.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Kimi just does the job. Vettel is trying to play politics and 'build' the team. The thing is, who says he's even any good at that? The team that he won with at Red Bull was in place before he even joined.
    And how would you even know anything about that? This "building the team" thing is mostly brought up by the fans or sensationalist journalist anyway. Half of tifosi around here probably have been talking about the importance of these alleged team building skills of drivers at one point or another anyway. Since when has that kind of thing become a bad quality too? In any case one would think Vettel would not have much of a say in many other aspects of the team anyway. He's the driver. I know it's hard to see the people behind the scenes, but they do exists and most of them are actually bigger factors than drivers in many aspects. And these drivers must rarely get the opportunity to be in a position to be building more than possibly a nice relationship with a group of people they have to work with but probably don't even get to pick themselves. There's little indication that Vettel has that kind of control over Ferrari or that he's playing politics. It's ridiculous how every Ferrari driver becomes politician all of a sudden anyway. I get that fans, especially over the Internet, quite easily turn against these people (drivers, engineer and such) that they claim to support, but it doesn't get any less frustrating apparently.

    And even if he's like that, don't you worry about Vettel's team building or championship winning skills... If Ferrari keep going this way, you may get to see him exercising all his precious skills in another team again beating the Ferrari driver like he had done up until recently. By then you will still have in your hands another driver that you call "Toxic" and a group of top notch talented people who somehow cannot seem to perform at Ferrari. Worst-case scenario: Ferrari might also get a nasty reputation for forcing legendary world champions out of sport via retirement.

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    me thinks that is a combination of factors, the car being more kimi-friendly one of them, and perhaps that the bar is lower than in fernando's years in terms of distance between the theoretical number one and two drivers.

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    There's no 2106 WDC, WCC at stake @ Ferrari so there's no #1, #2 driver, team orders. Kimi's allowed to give it all he can without moving over. That and a lot of luck with his car holding out across the finish line, he can be the champion driver he is.

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    In the last 10 Qualifying straight up, all in fight for position since Silverstone where everything is equal and without team bias, Kimi is somewhat thrashing Vettel big time @ 7:3.

    At 37, Kimi sure is looking the faster, better, more composed and calm driver that Ferrari needs and requires. No wonder he remains the current Ferrari champion
    Last edited by GreenTree; 4th November 2016 at 19:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTree View Post
    In the last 10 Qualifying straight up, all in fight for position since Silverstone where everything is equal and without team bias, Kimi is somewhat thrashing Vettel big time @ 7:3.

    At 37, Kimi sure is looking the faster, better, more composed and calm driver that Ferrari needs and requires. No wonder he remains the current Ferrari champion
    Why just from Silverstone, and why just qualifying?
    Forza Ferrari

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