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Thread: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

  1. #1201
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Credit where it's due, guys, the car has shown real potential so far, I know it's 'only' testing but the team in Maranello have shown that it is possible to create a competitive car without having a Newey or his equivalent on board and they should be congratulated and encouraged to keep the development going throughout the season. Perhaps Rory Byrne had more to do with it than we know? We will soon find out whether that potential continues to Melbourne and I can't wait.
    Totally agree!!!

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    Can anyone copy and paste the article.

    http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...-mercedes-real

    Thanks

  3. #1203
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    so, who's sandbagging now?
    Forza Ferrari


  4. #1204
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizf1 View Post
    Can anyone copy and paste the article.

    http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...-mercedes-real

    Thanks
    Mercedes looked in almost impenetrable shape after the first week of pre-season testing at Barcelona. The W08 set the pace, logged almost 100 more laps than any other car; star driver Lewis Hamilton called it the most detailed his Formula 1 team had ever built, said it looked "a thousand times better than everyone else's" - and that was just in basic specification.

    The prospects for Mercedes' rivals seemed truly frightening. F1's dominant team was already tweaking some of its new aerodynamic parts, preparing an upgrade package for engine and chassis between tests, plotting a new campaign of world domination to begin at the first race in Australia.

    Mercedes looked strong straight out of the box, with a suggestion of plenty more to come, perhaps even a 1m18s lap of Barcelona's Catalunya circuit.

    That lap time ultimately came, but from Ferrari, not Mercedes.

    Ferrari has been much-maligned after a troubled 2016 season, but it looked genuinely good in week one; a silent star - not saying much off the track, but doing some pretty encouraging talking on it.

    Sebastian Vettel lapped well within three tenths of Valtteri Bottas, and didn't use the softest available tyres, his car looking strong, stable, driveable, consistent, and most importantly fast.

    The Scuderia is a renowned testing show boater, so there was reluctance to get too excited. That's exactly what company president Sergio Marchionne did in 2016, when Ferrari matched Mercedes in pre-season testing but subsequently failed to win a race, let alone challenge for the world championship.



    So these positive early signs were viewed with extreme caution.

    The second week of pre-season testing is where the proper performance work happens. Fine tuning set-ups, unlocking potential, unleashing some of it, starting to build a real picture of where you might stack up against the rest.

    Surely Mercedes would leave Ferrari trailing once it started to turn up the heat?

    Of course, some genuine unknowns will always remain - relative fuel loads, engine maps, track conditions, tyre choices, aerodynamic configurations - until the first proper qualifying session takes place in Melbourne, but that doesn't mean the teams aren't trying. Testing has value. The results do matter to some degree.

    Mercedes updated its car and brought its Melbourne-spec engine to Spain, but endured a tricky start to the week, with Hamilton's first morning compromised by some damage to the floor. By day two it was back on top of the pile, with Bottas lapping in 1m19.310s on the super-soft tyre, but that's as good as it got, or Mercedes wanted it to get.

    For the final two days of this test, Ferrari set a scorching pace. Vettel sandbagged his way to a 1m19.024s best on Thursday, despite deliberately lifting off the throttle coming out of the final corner.

    Vettel's best sector times put him in the 1m18.7s bracket on ultra-soft tyres. The best Hamilton did was a 1m19.352s, slower than Bottas managed on super-softs the day before. On the final day, Kimi Raikkonen did a 1m18s lap for real during his morning performance run, despite a small lock-up under braking for Turn 5. Raikkonen said at the end of the day that he could have gone even faster than that benchmark.



    PURE PACE RANKING
    1. Ferrari (Raikkonen) 1m18.634s (US)
    2. Mercedes (Bottas) 1m19.310s (SS)
    3. Williams (Massa) 1m19.420s (US)
    4. Red Bull (Verstappen) 1m19.438s (SS)
    5. Toro Rosso (Sainz) 1m19.837s (US)
    6. Renault (Hulkenberg) 1m19.885s (US)
    7. Force India (Perez) 1m20.116s (US)
    8. Haas (Magnussen) 1m20.504s (US)
    9. McLaren (Vandoorne) 1m21.348s (US)
    10. Sauber (Ericsson) 1m21.670s (SS)

    The best combination of sector times Bottas completed during his performance runs on Thursday, on a mixture of super-soft and soft tyre outings, lowers his theoretical best lap time to 1m19.040s.

    Pirelli estimates the lap time difference between the super-soft and ultra-soft tyres on this track currently to be between 0.3s and 0.5s, so this suggests Mercedes was probably at least capable of something between 1m18.8s and 1m19.0s on the ultra-soft, a deficit to Ferrari of around 0.2-0.4s.

    Along with the usual variables of unknown engine modes and fuel loads, Pirelli also stresses that the two softest compounds are not designed for this circuit. When the cars return for the Spanish Grand Prix in May, the soft compound is the softest tyre they will use.

    On this tyre Ferrari set the pace quite comfortably, with Vettel managing a 1m19.341s best on Thursday, and lapping consistently in the low-1m19s. Max Verstappen managed 1m19.852s on the final day; Felipe Massa a 1m19.909s for Williams on Wednesday. Mercedes was only fourth fastest on this tyre - Hamilton pumping in a 1m19.915s effort at the very end of the final day.

    Getting a read on where Mercedes really stands on the most relevant tyre for this track is not easy. In fact, getting a read on Mercedes' true pace in week two is near-impossible, as the entire test was affected by inconsistencies in performance created by what Mercedes called a "lack of robustness" in parts of the floor.



    That's probably why Hamilton wasn't particularly content with his lot after his final pre-season day in the car, saying he had yet to find a set-up he was totally happy with.

    "I haven't got it into a good window yet," says Hamilton, who earlier in the week called Ferrari the favourite given its strong pace in testing. "We've had up and down days, and there has generally never been a perfect day, but there is a lot of potential in the car."

    The best we can do is estimate Mercedes' potential pace on the soft tyre. Bottas lapped in a 1m19.310s best on super-softs in in week two, so given Pirelli's estimate of a 0.3-0.5s difference between the soft and super-soft compounds, and the fact Bottas didn't put his best sectors together when at his quickest, Mercedes should probably have lapped somewhere between 1m19.3s and 1m19.5s with a perfect run on the softs - similar or slightly slower than Ferrari.

    Mercedes also didn't complete a representative race run at the second test. Both drivers did some long runs during their final afternoons in the car, but did not attempt full race simulations in the way Ferrari and Red Bull did. Hamilton said this wasn't necessary for Mercedes, given it completed these simulations at the first test.

    Vettel's Thursday afternoon race run was very impressive, his average pace nearly eight tenths of a second per lap up on Verstappen's (before the Renault MGU-K gave out in the Red Bull on Wednesday afternoon), and more than half a second quicker than Daniel Ricciardo managed while running at the same as Vettel.

    The best we have to go on from Mercedes is Hamilton's race simulation from the first test, where Mercedes was running an older specification of engine, detuned to protect the turbo and compressor.

    Hamilton's average pace during this run was just over three tenths of a second per lap down on Vettel's, which suggests Ferrari has a slight edge in race trim too. But that doesn't account for Mercedes running the updated engine specification at the second test, and potentially running more powerful engine modes as a result.



    It's likely Mercedes could gain another two or three tenths over Ferrari, once the engine updates are accounted for, and the fact it couldn't get the updated chassis into the sweet spot owing to that troublesome floor.

    "We have had so many different upgrades and maybe some of them haven't been perfect," says Bottas. "It's been affecting the car balance, and once you put new stuff into the car it's not like it's suddenly better.

    "There's some things that we definitely need to unlock, and I'm confident that we will find most out of the package and it will be as good as planned. It just needs hard work. I'm sure we can get most out of all the stuff we're bringing to the car in Melbourne."

    If - as some suspect - Mercedes also ran with more fuel than Ferrari during testing as well, that's likely to mean Mercedes actually holds an advantage of two or three tenths.

    "I feel pretty happy inside the car, but still early days," says Vettel. "It doesn't really matter if you look at one single lap time - you need to look at more than that, and in that regard there's still a lot of work to do.

    "We're probably still a little bit behind. If you look at the amount of laps Mercedes has done, if you look historically how slow they were going in the test, how much they were able to ramp it up for the races, I think it's clear that they're very fast if you look at their long-run pace, et cetera.

    "I think they're the ones to beat."

    It probably is optimistic to expect Ferrari to be right in the fight with Mercedes. The engine updates Mercedes brought to Barcelona solved any potential reliability concerns, and although customer squads Williams and Force India were using the older specification, some specific updates allowed them to power up their engines at the second test, where Williams showed a particularly strong turn of pace to lead the midfield pack.



    There is great expectation that if Ferrari cannot challenge Mercedes this season, Red Bull can, but at present it is difficult to know where it stands in relation to the other big guns.

    Red Bull lagged slightly behind Williams on pure pace at the second test, and Ricciardo suggested the team lost its way with the set-up for his race simulation on Thursday.

    The squad has had to run its Renault engine at reduced power to protect the reliability of the fragile MGU-K in the new Energy Recovery Systems, but it already looks to be the third-fastest team in reality. And there is a feeling Red Bull will find a big chunk of extra performance when Renault introduces reliability fixes for Melbourne, and the team brings its first raft of updates to what remains a very basic-looking version of the RB13.

    "Our true pace is closer but we're not quite on their level," says Ricciardo. "We certainly haven't showed Ferrari's pace yet, so you would say Ferrari is, at the moment, the closest challenger [to Mercedes]. We can get there, but we're not there yet."

    Haas team principal Gunther Steiner reckons there is a 1-1.5s gap from top three teams back to the chasing pack - an impression supported by others in the paddock.

    Williams's strong start to the second test suggests it is currently at the head of that queue. It's headline pace was slightly faster than Red Bull's, but Massa's average lap time during his race simulation on day one was more than six tenths of a second per lap down on the best Red Bull managed.



    Unfortunately, that midfield pack will not include McLaren-Honda, which has suffered a complete disaster of a pre-season - struggling throughout both tests with a serious lack of power, and woeful reliability from the new Honda engine, which is currently producing less power than the one it developed to the end of last season.

    Honda brought its Melbourne-specification engine to Barcelona for the second test, but this unit proved to be even worse than the one it used at the first test.

    Unstable combustion in the ICE led to several failures throughout the week, as the Japanese manufacturer battled to control excess vibrations (which caused multiple electrical failures on the car) and detonation.

    The McLaren-Honda could barely manage 10 laps in a row without breaking down, it was almost three seconds off the pace when it did run, and problems with the engine's mapping made the car difficult to drive when it wasn't stuck in the garage.

    McLaren estimates it has completed only 30% of the work it planned to get through in pre-season, and expects to be fighting a losing battle to avoid Fernando Alonso and Stoffel Vandoorne starting from the back row of the grid at the first race.

    It appears Honda has over-promised and completely under-delivered with its revised 2017 power unit. Unlike Mercedes, for which it's likely the inverse is true - regardless of whether Ferrari's headline-grabbing lap times suggest otherwise.

  5. #1205
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    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...17-vettel.html

    "If you look at how many laps Mercedes have done; look at historically how slow they go in testing, how much they were able to ramp it up for the races… it's clear," he told reporters on day three.

    "They are very fast with their long run pace. They're the ones to beat."

    "I feel happy inside the car, but it's still early days. I think it doesn't really matter here [to] look at one single lap time - you look at more than that, and in that regard there is still a lot of work to do…"
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  6. #1206
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    Thanks for posting the article. So looks like we'll have to wait till melbourne after all.

  7. #1207
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    Feeling cautiously optimistic.
    Having said that, I'd like to see the faces of all those people who, for the last few months, bombarded the Internet with all those "Ferrari are in huge trouble", "Ferrari already preparing a B-spec car", "There's no real boss at Maranello" comments
    #GillesPerSempre #KeepFightingMichael #JB17

  8. #1208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuderia1967 View Post
    Feeling cautiously optimistic.
    Having said that, I'd like to see the faces of all those people who, for the last few months, bombarded the Internet with all those "Ferrari are in huge trouble", "Ferrari already preparing a B-spec car", "There's no real boss at Maranello" comments
    Maybe they are really not satysfied with this one, and thus building B spec, even greater monster than this!!!

  9. #1209
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Maybe they are really not satysfied with this one, and thus building B spec, even greater monster than this!!!
    #GillesPerSempre #KeepFightingMichael #JB17

  10. #1210
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    Stats: Eight days of Barcelona F1 testing by the numbers

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...umbers-881825/
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Maybe they are really not satysfied with this one, and thus building B spec, even greater monster than this!!!
    Actually Stefa, I think you're right, in a way! With such new aero spec. the 'experts' are saying a lot of the teams will have a steady flow of new parts, wings, floors, diffusors, fins (and no fins), for each race. Plus opportunity to bring PU updates with every engine & MGU change.
    So there could be enough changes over the first 3 or 4 races, you might as well call it a B spec
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

  12. #1212
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    Kimi used super softs for his best lap not US

  13. #1213
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    On other news..Renault said they have fix for ERS problem in Melbourne..So its 3 way battle confirms
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...-fix-melbourne
    #PrayforMH370 #KeepFightingSchumi

  14. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by fronaldo View Post
    On other news..Renault said they have fix for ERS problem in Melbourne..So its 3 way battle confirms
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...-fix-melbourne
    Not true at all. They actually said "Fixes are already underway and we expect to have them in place for Melbourne"
    #GillesPerSempre #KeepFightingMichael #JB17

  15. #1215
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    Lets all just be positive very very positive.
    Forza Ferrari


    Forza Jules

  16. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    Lets all just be positive very very positive.
    Forza Ferrari
    Very good idea. This has been one of the best winter tests I can remember - I don't remember the last time the British journalists have been this favourable to Ferrari. I have genuine optimism for this season. Can't wait for the first race to see where we are.

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  18. #1218
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    "Ferrari completed both the tests with the same engine.And can use its electrical power(160bhp) for a maximum of 50 seconds."

    http://www.sportfair.it/2017/03/moto...errari/511271/


    Italian translation: A part about how "mercedes is afraid of ferrari" that take almost all the article (too cheesy in my opinion, almost pathetic).Then the interesting part about the engine. They have reduced the pressure of 3.5 bar so the ERS and the MGU-H can recharge more efficiently allowing the driver to use the 160 elettrical horse power for a total of 50 seconds. To this you have to add the new Sheel fuel upgrade that with his anti-detonation elements allow the engine to last longer. Because of all of that Ferrari was able to use just one power unit during the test. In the end the article quote Marchionne saying that the team can't end another season with 0 victories.


    This means Ferrari used 1 engine over 14.5 race distances.............if thats not impressive i don`t know what is :)

  19. #1219
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    It looks like Andrew Benson has joined the party.

    'The general conclusion from asking around among the teams is that Ferrari are at least level with Mercedes and possibly slightly ahead.'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39234387

  20. #1220
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    It is so painful for him to say this... Ferrari must be doing something very well for these guys to even utter something like this... gives me lots of optimism for this season

  21. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    It is so painful for him to say this... Ferrari must be doing something very well for these guys to even utter something like this... gives me lots of optimism for this season
    https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bc&oe=58C89677


  22. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    [video]https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/17274918_1329557833774498_31562065_n.gif?oh=41b6d8 e2e9a83ecb3d709da4e48cacbc&oe=58C89677[/url]

    https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bc&oe=58C89677
    Nice... that is how I am picturing all the British journalists now

  23. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    Nice... that is how I am picturing all the British journalists now
    these are tears of joy

  24. #1224
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    Ferrari vs Mercedes comparative video:

    https://twitter.com/piusgasso/status/840922539396341760

  25. #1225
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    Nice video, the actions of both are almost identical. Incredible..

  26. #1226
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    Guys, don't get ahead of yourselves just yet. First race will give a good indication. Let's wait until then before anything... even comparing race sims, we don't know whether or not engines were tuned down.

    Feet firmly planted ladies and gentlemen.
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  27. #1227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Guys, don't get ahead of yourselves just yet. First race will give a good indication. Let's wait until then before anything... even comparing race sims, we don't know whether or not engines were tuned down.

    Feet firmly planted ladies and gentlemen.
    I completely agree, but I will wait till I see the results of at least the first three races. Melbourne is not a track that will really show the cars pecking order (unless one team is more than 1sec ahead of the others).

  28. #1228
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    Kimi Raikkonen: 'Stronger' Ferrari have taken step forward in 2017(source: Skysports.com)

    Raikkonen praises Ferrari's work on SF70-H and admits they're stronger now than in 2016 - but won't predict race wins just yet.The Scuderia impressed at Winter Testing and topped the timesheets, but have been preaching caution after making a similarly strong start in pre-season last year before enduring a winless campaign.But Raikkonen, whose 1:18.634 was 0.7s quicker than the next fastest car in Barcelona, says Ferrari have made a step forward with their SF70-H and praised his team's work.

    "There are a few small issues but if we look a year ago, we are in a much stronger position," the experienced Finn said. "The car is very reliable, you expect small things to be happening when you are pushing the car to the limit. The guys have done an amazing job."Our first feeling is it's nice to drive. Are we going to be fast enough in the races? I don't know. It's early days still but compare one year ago to here, we have to be positive with how we have gone forward as a team and as a group."With the season-opening Australian GP less than two weeks away, Ferrari's early season pace means they are expected to be Mercedes' main challengers in Melbourne.

  29. #1229
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    I hope this car is quick right from the very first race...dominatingly (is that a word?) fast. I also hope that the sidepod loophole Ferrari exploited was an idea from it's own engineers/designers rather than an Allison idea. If it is our very own design then development should be good and it's kinda nice to know we have original thinkers in the organization.

  30. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    I hope this car is quick right from the very first race...dominatingly (is that a word?) fast. I also hope that the sidepod loophole Ferrari exploited was an idea from it's own engineers/designers rather than an Allison idea. If it is our very own design then development should be good and it's kinda nice to know we have original thinkers in the organization.
    Quite agree and after all the criticism levelled at Ferrari's management and technical expertise being in disarray, I am really happy that we appear to have some clever people at Maranello who are able to think out of the box. Hopefully this development will continue through the season, but I'm not getting too carried away with any predictions just yet!

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