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Thread: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

  1. #1921
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestokas View Post
    Article claims that misunderstood happened about the ICE, and actually Vettel is on 1st one. I guess we need wait more to know the truth.
    He's already on his 4th TC (turbo charger). Next time if he takes another it will b penalty

  2. #1922
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    Ferrari follows Mercedes' lead with F1 clutch start tweaks

    Ferrari has overhauled its start system and copied rivals Mercedes in a bid to help improve its getaway from the grid.

    Just a fortnight on from the Russian Grand Prix, where Ferrari duo Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen were leapfrogged by Valtteri Bottas on the run down to Turn 2, the Maranello team has responded with immediate modifications for the Spanish Grand Prix.

    It comes after Ferrari elected to use a filming day at Mugello last week for both its drivers to work on start improvements, and the results of that work have now made it on to Vettel's Ferrari in Barcelona.

    But intrigue about what Ferrari had done increased on Saturday afternoon when, discussing the start and the run down to the first corner, Lewis Hamilton joked with Vettel: "I see you have changed your start sequence now..."

    Ferrari has effectively done away with the long wishbone clutch lever that it has used successfully since the start of last season.

    The idea of the long lever was to increase the distance the drivers were able to move the paddle, improving the chances of finding the sweet spot with the clutch bite point for the perfect getaway.

    But new rules introduced for this year may have ultimately meant that the advantage Ferrari had before has been wiped away.

    The changes were a new limit of 80mm of movement for the clutch paddle, and there has to now be a distance of 50mm between the clutch paddle and any other control on the wheel.

    In response, it appears Ferrari has adopted a philosophy pioneered by Mercedes of using two shorter clutch paddles that feature finger holds to help the drivers get a better feel of what is needed.

    Ferrari has introduced this arrangement in metal so far - although this could be replaced by carbon fibre in the future.

    The presence of the finger holds means that teams do not have to comply with the 50mm exclusion zone around the clutch paddle - something that may have proved to be a factor in helping Mercedes.

    This could in theory allow the paddles to be closer to the drivers' hands, and therefore be exploited with finer precision by their fingers.

    Kimi Raikkonen suggested earlier this weekend that recent efforts by the team on starts have ramped up, and that new solutions were being tried.

    "We kind of know what is happening and we've been working on different things," he said.

    "Mercedes has been strong with what they're doing. But we cannot change things overnight.

    "In practice we've been pretty good, but when you do your seven to 10 starts at the end of the pit lane it's quite easy, as there's more grip there.

    "When you do it on the pits straight you have to make the best out of it.

    "It's not such a long run down to Turn 1, but hopefully we can make a good job out of it."

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report...1-start-tweaks
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  3. #1923
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    Are we bringing any updates to Monaco?

  4. #1924
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    Guys don't you find it a bit odd that no major loophole was discovered with these new regs ... nothing like the DD or the BD .

  5. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb View Post
    Are we bringing any updates to Monaco?
    No info yet but in Monaco everyone runs max downforce so at least the front and rear wings should be different.
    Seb will most probably use his second engine ( build in before FP3 in Barca , and out again reverting to engine 1 before Qualy and Race)
    that is rumoured to have 10-15 bhp more then te first one.

  6. #1926
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossopervincere View Post
    No info yet but in Monaco everyone runs max downforce so at least the front and rear wings should be different.
    Seb will most probably use his second engine ( build in before FP3 in Barca , and out again reverting to engine 1 before Qualy and Race)
    that is rumoured to have 10-15 bhp more then te first one.
    I mean we have to hope for front row to be with in any chance of winning the race of course... Is Monaco a track that will suit the SF70-H?

  7. #1927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb View Post
    I mean we have to hope for front row to be with in any chance of winning the race of course... Is Monaco a track that will suit the SF70-H?
    I would assume that it will NOT suit the mercedes... longer wheelbase on a such a twisty circuit ..

  8. #1928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    I would assume that it will NOT suit the mercedes... longer wheelbase on a such a twisty circuit ..
    The Red Bulls were good at it last year? Could they be a threat to us??

  9. #1929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb View Post
    The Red Bulls were good at it last year? Could they be a threat to us??
    I think any of the three can take it :)

  10. #1930
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    Monaco has to be Red Bull's best chance.

  11. #1931
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    We look well suited to Monaco on paper. Quick to warm the tyres, great mechanical grip, great downforce, great tyre wear. A few teams could go very well here, but we can't be written off before the weekend has started this year. Monaco always feels like a "get it out of the way" kind of weekend to me though. Hate the place. But a couple of red uniforms on the podium would sure look sweet.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  12. #1932
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    The short wheelbase compared to Merc should favour our car.

  13. #1933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    Guys don't you find it a bit odd that no major loophole was discovered with these new regs ... nothing like the DD or the BD .
    Actually Ferrari exploited loopholes with the floor and the angle of the radiators from my understanding which allowed them to develop a shorter wheel-based car.
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  14. #1934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Actually Ferrari exploited loopholes with the floor and the angle of the radiators from my understanding which allowed them to develop a shorter wheel-based car.
    I don't see how the angle of our radiators intakes has anything to do with shorter wheel base. Red bull have an even shorter one...

  15. #1935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    I don't see how the angle of our radiators intakes has anything to do with shorter wheel base. Red bull have an even shorter one...
    They were able to put the radiators further back to give the aero benefits of a longer wheelbase but without the mechanical disadvantages.

  16. #1936
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    They were able to put the radiators further back to give the aero benefits of a longer wheelbase but without the mechanical disadvantages.
    http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...edes-advantage

    Anyone???

  17. #1937
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    Here you go.




    The Spanish Grand Prix served up a very exciting race in the battle between Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel. But what it didn't deliver was a clear indication of whether Ferrari or Mercedes has the fastest car.

    Mercedes and Ferrari are clearly in a different league to the rest in race conditions. Between the two it is going to be all about the development war and who gets the breaks or makes the best calls when it comes to strategy, as we saw at Barcelona.

    My favourite way to judge performance of the cars in the first four races is by using the supertime method, which is based on the fastest individual lap set by each team on a weekend as a percentage of the overall quickest and then averaged out.

    Mercedes was not quite fastest every weekend, but was very close to doing so at 100.019%. If we take off the 0.019% of all teams to square things up, this is the result:

    Early-season F1 supertime ranking
    How the 10 F1 teams compared in the opening four races

    TEAM SUPERTIME
    1 Mercedes 100.000%
    2 Ferrari 100.248%
    3 Red Bull 101.423%
    4 Williams 102.031%
    5 Renault 102.211%
    6 Toro Rosso 102.550%
    7 Haas 102.551%
    8 Force India 102.805%
    9 McLaren 103.473%
    10 Sauber 103.944%
    Now, I know Barcelona is only one race and a team can have a bad weekend. But it's a track with fast corners, long medium-speed corners and some slow bits so has a good mix of everything. That's why teams like going there to test, because if your car is good around there it means it should be fairly good everywhere.

    Looking at the supertimes from the Spanish GP weekend produces these results, with Mercedes still at the top.

    Spanish GP supertime ranking
    How the 10 F1 teams compared at Barcelona

    TEAM SUPERTIME CHANGE
    1 Mercedes 100.000% -
    2 Ferrari 100.064% -0.241%
    3 Red Bull 100.704% -0.720%
    4 McLaren 102.399% -1.074%
    5 Force India 102.427% -0.378%
    6 Williams 102.632% +0.600%
    7 Haas 102.754% +0.203%
    8 Toro Rosso 102.807% +0.257%
    9 Renault 102.840% +0.639%
    10 Sauber 103.353% -0.591%
    Now, this is based on taking Mercedes as the datum. It might not have moved forward at all with its developments, but five teams closed the gap by an average of 0.500% and four lost out by an average of 0.425%.

    So, in reality, the Mercedes development package was fairly mediocre and I am pretty sure the team will be elated to have won the race, but disappointed not to have dominated it.

    McLaren's improvement also catches the eye at just over 1%. But let's be honest, there was a lot of room for improvement there and actually I think we could look at this a different way. Fernando Alonso's performance on home ground probably accounted for most of that 1% because Stoffel Vandoorne's performance was just about the norm that we have seen from McLaren so far this year and in Sunday trim it just wasn't at the races.

    Let's have a look in a bit more detail at the packages the leading three teams took to Barcelona.



    MERCEDES

    The most obvious new component to the eye was the shell-shaped vane on the underside of a new, much narrower, nose profile.

    Up until now, teams have used the S-duct to help keep the airflow attached to the underside of the nose profile. The current regulations requiring the forward crash structure at the tip of the nose to be very low have meant the underside of the nose sweeps upwards at a greater rate than the airflow would like.

    So fitting this shell-like device has separated the airflow where it comes off the trailing edge of the FIA-mandated central section of the front wing, from the airflow coming around the sides of the nose.

    These two flows will reattach at the trailing edge of this component, and its flow direction will be more sympathetic to what the bargeboards require.

    To make the best use of this improved airflow coming through from the underside of the nose, Mercedes has also added some more intricate detail to the bargeboards.



    These have become major downforce-producing devices and, as they are more or less bolt-on components, I'm pretty sure it is an area where we will see continued development.

    The front suspension is also slightly different, as are the brake ducts. These two components also act as flow conditioners for the airflow coming around the wider front tyre. Optimising and tidying up this airflow improves the performance of the sidepod outer-corner vertical turning vane, which in turn improves the performance of the undercut sidepod and Coke bottle.

    The floor in front of the rear tyre has also been modified with increased slotted vanes. The objective of the undercut sidepods and Coke bottle is to pull as much airflow around the sidepod as possible.

    As the airflow gets displaced around the rear tyre's contact patch, the tyre rotating onto the ground created a squirting effect. These vanes in the floor ahead of the tyre help pull airflow from the top surface of the floor. This will improve the sidepod and underfloor's overall efficiency.

    Mercedes has also joined the monkey seat brigade. This may only be for high downforce tracks, but it also helps slightly with improving the pressure differential across the hot side of the turbo. This reduces the turbo's back pressure, which will allow the turbo to spin faster for the same exhaust gas pressure and in turn means that you will get that little bit better performance from the MGU-H.



    FERRARI

    Ferrari arrived with what you could describe as small developments, but it is not always what you can see that makes the difference. There is a lot of stuff under the bodywork that can have a huge impact.

    On show was a revised bargeboard package. For Ferrari this is one component where it won't learn too much from by looking at other teams' cars.

    Ferrari has gone out on a limb with its design in this area, and it appears to be working well. With the new regulations, the bargeboards have become a much more important part of the package and are now responsible for probably in excess of 10% of the overall downforce of the car.

    This is achieved by scavenging better airflow out from underneath the front of the chassis, which in turn improves the performance of the front wing, and inducing vortices around and under the leading edge of the underfloor - which again improves the performance of the underfloor and diffuser.

    Ferrari also had a slightly revised front wing. Although the front wing's visual concept is similar to what we saw in 2016, the detail has altered significantly.

    The wider front tyres have resulting in a review of how the airflow is swept around their outside. The outer upper wing cascade is about as intricate as we have seen.



    Ferrari has also introduced a Mercedes-style rear crash structure. This component is a requirement of the regulations in both volume and rear-most position. It is how you get from the gearbox to this rear crash area that the design can influence, and on the way how slim it can be made while still passing the crash test.

    Ferrari has a spoiler behind the monkey seat, making it into a twin-element component. This will improve its overall performance and, as I said above in reference to Mercedes' version, possibly help with the efficiency of the turbo.

    In line with quite a few other teams, Ferrari has also introduced a twin element T-wing. The upper element produces some downforce in its own right, and the lower element acts like a bit of a turning vane and helps the main rear wing's performance.

    In an effort to get a better brake temperature balance across the front axle of the car, Ferrari has introduced asymmetric brake cooling.

    This can also help with heating the tyres across an axle slightly differently. Turn 3 at Barcelona heats up the left-hand-side tyres very easily, but when you arrive at the next right-hander at Turn 4, you can very easily lock up the inside front.



    RED BULL

    As for Red Bull, qualifying suggested it had closed the gap to the top two, but in race conditions the team seemed to struggle.

    Even that is far from conclusive, because Red Bull lost Max Verstappen on the opening lap, and Daniel Ricciardo was almost half-a-second slower than him in qualifying.

    I'm pretty sure Red Bull has closed on Mercedes in the manner the qualifying gap suggested, but in the race that pace was nowhere to be seen.

    After the first 10 laps Ricciardo was 25s behind the leader and some of that was down to the first-corner incidents. If you add that to his qualifying deficit of just over a second multiplied by the 56 laps that were still to run, you get Ricciardo's total race deficit.

    Red Bull had some front suspension modifications and new bargeboards, but it will need a much bigger package than this to get in the game. Compared to the Ferrari and Mercedes bargeboard packages, this is still in its infancy - as in reality is the rest of the car.

    Yes, Red Bull is suffering from the power deficit of the Renault engine, but the car is also suffering.

    It has been left behind this year, and in a year when everyone was expecting the aerodynamic changes to play into Adrian Newey's hands.

    Even with the step made in Spain, Red Bull and Renault still have a long way to go. And there's nothing to suggest we're going to see anything more than a two-horse race up front for the next few grands prix at least.



    HOW MERCEDES OUTFOXED FERRARI

    Vettel definitely had the faster car in the first stint, but the thing I don't understand is why he pitted on lap 13 - earlier than the other frontrunners.

    If you have upwards of two seconds on whoever is chasing you, then the chance of the undercut working is fairly slim, so why not leave the decisions to the chasing car? If you pit first you show your hand and it allows the other car to go in a different direction with their tyre choice, and that's exactly what happened.

    This, combined with Valtteri Bottas, who was struggling for pace and taking on the job of a trusted number two (I wonder what Raikkonen would do in the same circumstances?) by holding Vettel behind him for those few vital laps, brought Hamilton back into contention. Pitting for his second stop at the end of the virtual safety car period cost him less time, which brought him into shooting distance. He still had to look after his soft tyres for 30 laps, no easy task in a car that has been harder on tyres than the Ferrari.

    During this last 30 laps Hamilton was on the faster tyre and reeled Vettel in quickly. Passing is never easy but with the use of a stupidly longer DRS zone (which in my opinion just reduces the skill level required to be a top-class Formula 1 driver) he was through and disappeared fairly quickly to take the win.

    It was a good call from the Mercedes team to pit Hamilton during the VSC period and calling it at the last minute meant Ferrari had no time to react, as Vettel was past the pit entry.

    As we saw when Hamilton breezed past Vettel to take the lead, Ferrari needs an engine update pretty soon. Otherwise, the long straights of Montreal are going to make it a tough Canadian Grand Prix for Ferrari next month.

  18. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Here you go.




    The Spanish Grand Prix served up a very exciting race in the battle between Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel. But what it didn't deliver was a clear indication of whether Ferrari or Mercedes has the fastest car.

    Mercedes and Ferrari are clearly in a different league to the rest in race conditions. Between the two it is going to be all about the development war and who gets the breaks or makes the best calls when it comes to strategy, as we saw at Barcelona.

    My favourite way to judge performance of the cars in the first four races is by using the supertime method, which is based on the fastest individual lap set by each team on a weekend as a percentage of the overall quickest and then averaged out.

    Mercedes was not quite fastest every weekend, but was very close to doing so at 100.019%. If we take off the 0.019% of all teams to square things up, this is the result:

    Early-season F1 supertime ranking
    How the 10 F1 teams compared in the opening four races

    TEAM SUPERTIME
    1 Mercedes 100.000%
    2 Ferrari 100.248%
    3 Red Bull 101.423%
    4 Williams 102.031%
    5 Renault 102.211%
    6 Toro Rosso 102.550%
    7 Haas 102.551%
    8 Force India 102.805%
    9 McLaren 103.473%
    10 Sauber 103.944%
    Now, I know Barcelona is only one race and a team can have a bad weekend. But it's a track with fast corners, long medium-speed corners and some slow bits so has a good mix of everything. That's why teams like going there to test, because if your car is good around there it means it should be fairly good everywhere.

    Looking at the supertimes from the Spanish GP weekend produces these results, with Mercedes still at the top.

    Spanish GP supertime ranking
    How the 10 F1 teams compared at Barcelona

    TEAM SUPERTIME CHANGE
    1 Mercedes 100.000% -
    2 Ferrari 100.064% -0.241%
    3 Red Bull 100.704% -0.720%
    4 McLaren 102.399% -1.074%
    5 Force India 102.427% -0.378%
    6 Williams 102.632% +0.600%
    7 Haas 102.754% +0.203%
    8 Toro Rosso 102.807% +0.257%
    9 Renault 102.840% +0.639%
    10 Sauber 103.353% -0.591%
    Now, this is based on taking Mercedes as the datum. It might not have moved forward at all with its developments, but five teams closed the gap by an average of 0.500% and four lost out by an average of 0.425%.

    So, in reality, the Mercedes development package was fairly mediocre and I am pretty sure the team will be elated to have won the race, but disappointed not to have dominated it.

    McLaren's improvement also catches the eye at just over 1%. But let's be honest, there was a lot of room for improvement there and actually I think we could look at this a different way. Fernando Alonso's performance on home ground probably accounted for most of that 1% because Stoffel Vandoorne's performance was just about the norm that we have seen from McLaren so far this year and in Sunday trim it just wasn't at the races.

    Let's have a look in a bit more detail at the packages the leading three teams took to Barcelona.



    MERCEDES

    The most obvious new component to the eye was the shell-shaped vane on the underside of a new, much narrower, nose profile.

    Up until now, teams have used the S-duct to help keep the airflow attached to the underside of the nose profile. The current regulations requiring the forward crash structure at the tip of the nose to be very low have meant the underside of the nose sweeps upwards at a greater rate than the airflow would like.

    So fitting this shell-like device has separated the airflow where it comes off the trailing edge of the FIA-mandated central section of the front wing, from the airflow coming around the sides of the nose.

    These two flows will reattach at the trailing edge of this component, and its flow direction will be more sympathetic to what the bargeboards require.

    To make the best use of this improved airflow coming through from the underside of the nose, Mercedes has also added some more intricate detail to the bargeboards.



    These have become major downforce-producing devices and, as they are more or less bolt-on components, I'm pretty sure it is an area where we will see continued development.

    The front suspension is also slightly different, as are the brake ducts. These two components also act as flow conditioners for the airflow coming around the wider front tyre. Optimising and tidying up this airflow improves the performance of the sidepod outer-corner vertical turning vane, which in turn improves the performance of the undercut sidepod and Coke bottle.

    The floor in front of the rear tyre has also been modified with increased slotted vanes. The objective of the undercut sidepods and Coke bottle is to pull as much airflow around the sidepod as possible.

    As the airflow gets displaced around the rear tyre's contact patch, the tyre rotating onto the ground created a squirting effect. These vanes in the floor ahead of the tyre help pull airflow from the top surface of the floor. This will improve the sidepod and underfloor's overall efficiency.

    Mercedes has also joined the monkey seat brigade. This may only be for high downforce tracks, but it also helps slightly with improving the pressure differential across the hot side of the turbo. This reduces the turbo's back pressure, which will allow the turbo to spin faster for the same exhaust gas pressure and in turn means that you will get that little bit better performance from the MGU-H.



    FERRARI

    Ferrari arrived with what you could describe as small developments, but it is not always what you can see that makes the difference. There is a lot of stuff under the bodywork that can have a huge impact.

    On show was a revised bargeboard package. For Ferrari this is one component where it won't learn too much from by looking at other teams' cars.

    Ferrari has gone out on a limb with its design in this area, and it appears to be working well. With the new regulations, the bargeboards have become a much more important part of the package and are now responsible for probably in excess of 10% of the overall downforce of the car.

    This is achieved by scavenging better airflow out from underneath the front of the chassis, which in turn improves the performance of the front wing, and inducing vortices around and under the leading edge of the underfloor - which again improves the performance of the underfloor and diffuser.

    Ferrari also had a slightly revised front wing. Although the front wing's visual concept is similar to what we saw in 2016, the detail has altered significantly.

    The wider front tyres have resulting in a review of how the airflow is swept around their outside. The outer upper wing cascade is about as intricate as we have seen.



    Ferrari has also introduced a Mercedes-style rear crash structure. This component is a requirement of the regulations in both volume and rear-most position. It is how you get from the gearbox to this rear crash area that the design can influence, and on the way how slim it can be made while still passing the crash test.

    Ferrari has a spoiler behind the monkey seat, making it into a twin-element component. This will improve its overall performance and, as I said above in reference to Mercedes' version, possibly help with the efficiency of the turbo.

    In line with quite a few other teams, Ferrari has also introduced a twin element T-wing. The upper element produces some downforce in its own right, and the lower element acts like a bit of a turning vane and helps the main rear wing's performance.

    In an effort to get a better brake temperature balance across the front axle of the car, Ferrari has introduced asymmetric brake cooling.

    This can also help with heating the tyres across an axle slightly differently. Turn 3 at Barcelona heats up the left-hand-side tyres very easily, but when you arrive at the next right-hander at Turn 4, you can very easily lock up the inside front.



    RED BULL

    As for Red Bull, qualifying suggested it had closed the gap to the top two, but in race conditions the team seemed to struggle.

    Even that is far from conclusive, because Red Bull lost Max Verstappen on the opening lap, and Daniel Ricciardo was almost half-a-second slower than him in qualifying.

    I'm pretty sure Red Bull has closed on Mercedes in the manner the qualifying gap suggested, but in the race that pace was nowhere to be seen.

    After the first 10 laps Ricciardo was 25s behind the leader and some of that was down to the first-corner incidents. If you add that to his qualifying deficit of just over a second multiplied by the 56 laps that were still to run, you get Ricciardo's total race deficit.

    Red Bull had some front suspension modifications and new bargeboards, but it will need a much bigger package than this to get in the game. Compared to the Ferrari and Mercedes bargeboard packages, this is still in its infancy - as in reality is the rest of the car.

    Yes, Red Bull is suffering from the power deficit of the Renault engine, but the car is also suffering.

    It has been left behind this year, and in a year when everyone was expecting the aerodynamic changes to play into Adrian Newey's hands.

    Even with the step made in Spain, Red Bull and Renault still have a long way to go. And there's nothing to suggest we're going to see anything more than a two-horse race up front for the next few grands prix at least.



    HOW MERCEDES OUTFOXED FERRARI

    Vettel definitely had the faster car in the first stint, but the thing I don't understand is why he pitted on lap 13 - earlier than the other frontrunners.

    If you have upwards of two seconds on whoever is chasing you, then the chance of the undercut working is fairly slim, so why not leave the decisions to the chasing car? If you pit first you show your hand and it allows the other car to go in a different direction with their tyre choice, and that's exactly what happened.

    This, combined with Valtteri Bottas, who was struggling for pace and taking on the job of a trusted number two (I wonder what Raikkonen would do in the same circumstances?) by holding Vettel behind him for those few vital laps, brought Hamilton back into contention. Pitting for his second stop at the end of the virtual safety car period cost him less time, which brought him into shooting distance. He still had to look after his soft tyres for 30 laps, no easy task in a car that has been harder on tyres than the Ferrari.

    During this last 30 laps Hamilton was on the faster tyre and reeled Vettel in quickly. Passing is never easy but with the use of a stupidly longer DRS zone (which in my opinion just reduces the skill level required to be a top-class Formula 1 driver) he was through and disappeared fairly quickly to take the win.

    It was a good call from the Mercedes team to pit Hamilton during the VSC period and calling it at the last minute meant Ferrari had no time to react, as Vettel was past the pit entry.

    As we saw when Hamilton breezed past Vettel to take the lead, Ferrari needs an engine update pretty soon. Otherwise, the long straights of Montreal are going to make it a tough Canadian Grand Prix for Ferrari next month.
    Tnx mate

  19. #1939
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    Anybody know why Vettel wears black gloves this year??

  20. #1940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb View Post
    Anybody know why Vettel wears black gloves this year??
    GOod question I'd like to know too

  21. #1941
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    GOod question I'd like to know too
    It just doesn't look right! If he had black boots as well maybe... but seems out of place!

  22. #1942
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    Look who's moaning again

    Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko has once again suggested the team will leave Formula 1 if they continue to be "blackmailed" over the engine rules.

    Red Bull have struggled to keep up with Ferrari and Mercedes this season partly due to their Renault-powered, TAG Heuer branded engine being way off the pace.

    And while new bosses Liberty Media are looking at ways to improve the sport from 2020 and beyond, Marko wants to see a "simple" idea implemented or else Red Bull could well withdraw from the World Championship.

    "The idea is very simple. We want an engine that is 1000hp, with a single standard KERS and battery, and development does not cost more than 15-20 million," Marko told El Confidencial.

    "They should have sound, and allow the driver to make the difference. And independent companies like Ilmor and Cosworth should be able to enter so that we or McLaren can use them if we want."

    Marko was then asked whether Red Bull could pull out from Formula 1 altogether.

    "Yes," he said, "because last year Mercedes would not give us an engine, neither would Ferrari, and Renault was only forced by Ecclestone to give us one.

    "We want to have an equal situation where we are not blackmailed by a manufacturer."

    http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-t...-engine-rules/

  23. #1943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Look who's moaning again

    Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko has once again suggested the team will leave Formula 1 if they continue to be "blackmailed" over the engine rules.

    Red Bull have struggled to keep up with Ferrari and Mercedes this season partly due to their Renault-powered, TAG Heuer branded engine being way off the pace.

    And while new bosses Liberty Media are looking at ways to improve the sport from 2020 and beyond, Marko wants to see a "simple" idea implemented or else Red Bull could well withdraw from the World Championship.

    "The idea is very simple. We want an engine that is 1000hp, with a single standard KERS and battery, and development does not cost more than 15-20 million," Marko told El Confidencial.

    "They should have sound, and allow the driver to make the difference. And independent companies like Ilmor and Cosworth should be able to enter so that we or McLaren can use them if we want."

    Marko was then asked whether Red Bull could pull out from Formula 1 altogether.

    "Yes," he said, "because last year Mercedes would not give us an engine, neither would Ferrari, and Renault was only forced by Ecclestone to give us one.

    "We want to have an equal situation where we are not blackmailed by a manufacturer."

    http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-t...-engine-rules/
    let them go

  24. #1944
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    let them go
    I second that. Let them go

  25. #1945
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    I don't see how redbull will realistically win again with the current rules... Their situation is not good. They should do what McLaren is doing and get become a factory team with an engine supplier.

  26. #1946
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    I don't see how redbull will realistically win again with the current rules... Their situation is not good. They should do what McLaren is doing and get become a factory team with an engine supplier.
    They are a soda can company with zero road relevance in producing cars. They(RB) just like to slap their "RedBull" label on anything that moves fast..."it gives you wiings."

  27. #1947
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    They are a soda can company with zero road relevance in producing cars. They(RB) just like to slap their "RedBull" label on anything that moves fast..."it gives you wiings."
    Well, they must be using their huge technological center in Milton Keynes for something else other than F1. They are working with various companies, one of them is Aston Martin. However, if they can't accomplish their goals under the given regulations than they should just shut up and leave. I don't think they'll leave without a fight though, probably they will do everything in their power to make the regulations suit them from 2020 and beyond. If they fail to do that, then they will most probably leave.

    Nevertheless, they are here to moan till 2020 at least.

  28. #1948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Well, they must be using their huge technological center in Milton Keynes for something else other than F1. They are working with various companies, one of them is Aston Martin. However, if they can't accomplish their goals under the given regulations than they should just shut up and leave. I don't think they'll live without a fight though, probably they will do everything in their power to make the regulations suit them from 2020 and beyond. If they fail to do, they will most probably live.
    Like I said, they don't make production cars and never will. Infinity made an SUV with the Vettel Option package back in the day(dumb if you ask me). RB/Aston Martin made the Valkyrie hypercar with Adrian Newey at the aero dept. helm. They just like to slap the RedBull label on anything that gets you from point A to point B...fast. They do have a warehouse of historic planes with the Redbull name on them and are in F1 for airplanes.

    I don't see why they don't buy the teams they just mentioned and make them build an engine???? Lord knows they have the money for it.....alot of it to host 2 F1 teams.

  29. #1949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seb View Post
    Anybody know why Vettel wears black gloves this year??
    yeah, German fashion sense

  30. #1950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    and Renault was only forced by Ecclestone to give us one.

    http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-t...-engine-rules/

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