Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

[mwk360]

https://twitter.com/andihaupt1/statu...70891508097024

Yikes! guess that first PU might be lower HP but much more reliable

[nani_s23]

Damn! and you telling me that merc's aren't doing this then ??.....surely they gotta be doing something dodgy then ?

But thanks for your feed back.......really appreciate it, i'm enlightened now

He's giving his analysis. Which is not 100% reliable.
Gap to mercs is down to tyre warm up issues. If there was time to another lap in Baku quali. Ferrari might have been closer to mercs.
So don't come to conclusion.
Oil burn which rivals alleged said to give you .2ths gain according to analysis by Mr horner.
1sec gap is due to purely tyre woes n track specific.

[Super M]

do many people follow F1 in South Africa these days? I mean you a GP there back in the day, not to mention Jody Scheckter of course.

Believe you me, there's a lot of SA's that follow F1. I can honestly tell you that if there was to be another F1 race, Kayalami will be packed to the brim.

[Super M]

He's giving his analysis. Which is not 100% reliable.
Gap to mercs is down to tyre warm up issues. If there was time to another lap in Baku quali. Ferrari might have been closer to mercs.
So don't come to conclusion.
Oil burn which rivals alleged said to give you .2ths gain according to analysis by Mr horner.
1sec gap is due to purely tyre woes n track specific.

Not coming to conclusions at all. but at least i'm enlightened to say the least. Today's technology in F1 has gone crazy. Not like the days i followed F1 when things were much easier to understand.

I just hope that we can continue to develop our car and extract the maximum for the remaining GP's just like our competitors are doing.

[Ferrarichamp]

Believe you me, there's a lot of SA's that follow F1. I can honestly tell you that if there was to be another F1 race, Kayalami will be packed to the brim.

Interesting. It does seem strange that there isn't a single GP on the African continent.

[nani_s23]

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/...h-speed-track/
3rd engine at British GP

[jragona]

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/...h-speed-track/
3rd engine at British GP

Is this the one Vettel used in the last race but changed before the race? I heard its supposed to be a very good update.

[nani_s23]

Is this the one Vettel used in the last race but changed before the race? I heard its supposed to be a very good update.

No. Vet used 2nd engine. Which had issue (water leak), then he was forced to use 1st engine.

[FerrariF60]

No. Vet used 2nd engine. Which had issue (water leak), then he was forced to use 1st engine.

i cannot believe Ferrari did NOT bring an extra engine, JUST in case something went wrong with SECOND engine (which it did)....and they were forced to use the first engine with LOTS of miles on it.

that was pretty risky and/or dumb by Ferrari given that it could have NOT finish the race....

[number 13]

According to this web site https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...ancora-924343/

- ICE3 will introduce new type pistons, a more robust steel alloy design



- TJI improvements (Mahle)



- New fuel (Shell)



Ferrari is expecting to gain 50 HP

Ofc i don't know if it's true but i really hope so! 50 BHP sounds too much tho

[Jax]

According to this web site https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...ancora-924343/

- ICE3 will introduce new type pistons, a more robust steel alloy design



- TJI improvements (Mahle)



- New fuel (Shell)



Ferrari is expecting to gain 50 HP

Ofc i don't know if it's true but i really hope so! 50 BHP sounds too much tho

50 hp ? Nah

[nemanja]

i cannot believe Ferrari did NOT bring an extra engine, JUST in case something went wrong with SECOND engine (which it did)....and they were forced to use the first engine with LOTS of miles on it.

that was pretty risky and/or dumb by Ferrari given that it could have NOT finish the race....

They did have another Spec 2 engine but they didn't want to use it because Spec 3 is around the corner. That's why they took a gamble and it paid off.

[FerrariF60]

According to this web site https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...ancora-924343/

- ICE3 will introduce new type pistons, a more robust steel alloy design



- TJI improvements (Mahle)



- New fuel (Shell)



Ferrari is expecting to gain 50 HP

Ofc i don't know if it's true but i really hope so! 50 BHP sounds too much tho

no way we'll gain 50 HP just from having different alloy material for pistons and new gas improvements....

at most may be 10 or maybe 20 tops

[FerrariF60]

They did have another Spec 2 engine but they didn't want to use it because Spec 3 is around the corner. That's why they took a gamble and it paid off.

oh i got you now....it makes perfect sense now...

thx.

[mardyrt]

no way we'll gain 50 HP just from having different alloy material for pistons and new gas improvements....

at most may be 10 or maybe 20 tops

I think they mainly gain the HP from running higher pressure, this will cause a higher temperature, I think thats why they have this additive manufacturing with honey comb structure to cool the piston. I think the new fuel should help with increasing the calorific value, which will add a few more hp.
If its true that they have these innovations, plus the pre-combusin chamber that allow for better flame propagation, then 50hp is plausible, but only if it is true what the article is saying. I hope so! 50hp, its a lot and sure would cause a few more beat downs of the Toto's table!!

[sxviper698]

How does all this info get out? these pistons a pre combustion should be secret! or are we so far behind and catching up to merc?

[Jacquesvw]

do many people follow F1 in South Africa these days? I mean you a GP there back in the day, not to mention Jody Scheckter of course.

Yes, we still follow F1 in SA. Sadly we are unlikely to host a GP again soon, because the current resist government only care about sports the black people watch.

[Zerocool]

i cannot believe Ferrari did NOT bring an extra engine, JUST in case something went wrong with SECOND engine (which it did)....and they were forced to use the first engine with LOTS of miles on it.

that was pretty risky and/or dumb by Ferrari given that it could have NOT finish the race....

But in a different perspective:

We cannot afford to use another engine because it will hamper our chances to introduce upgrades in future. Because only 4 engines per season we simply do not have the luxury of it..

[Zerocool]

The air fuel ratio needed to burn all the gasoline is 14.7:1. I don't think that's what F1 teams run though, especially on turbo cars. 14.7:1 is great for fuel economy, and running the engine under vacuum (part throttle), but once it get close to to 1 full atmosphere (WOT on a NA engine) you have to enrich the mixture to 12.5 to 13.0. This cools the combustion chamber, allowing you to run more ignition advance. Add a turbo and the load (atmospheres) on the engine go up. More load, more heat and you need to cool down the combustion chamber even further. So on a turbo car you might run 12.5 to 11.0 AFR.

Yeah they don't run in that ratio because the fuel used in the f1 cars are much different from that of road cars, they are light weight, have better flame speed and stuff and also because of the tji system which helps burn effectively and efficiently they were able to reduce the compression ratio. Or else just going by logic they'll need higher wall thickness like road cars which will add up weight... And there was news that we were able to reduce the boot pressure by 3.5/4.5 bar early in the season so I guess thee should have also been a major upgrade from shell along with the combustion chamber and reliability upgrades......

[Brakefade]

Yeah they don't run in that ratio because the fuel used in the f1 cars are much different from that of road cars, they are light weight, have better flame speed and stuff and also because of the tji system which helps burn effectively and efficiently they were able to reduce the compression ratio. Or else just going by logic they'll need higher wall thickness like road cars which will add up weight... And there was news that we were able to reduce the boot pressure by 3.5/4.5 bar early in the season so I guess thee should have also been a major upgrade from shell along with the combustion chamber and reliability upgrades......

It's not about ratios, it's about stoichiometry. Stoichiometry in engines refers to burning all the available fuel in the combustion reaction (neither lean nor rich). For straight gasoline it's 14.7:1, but for other fuels it's different. Like 85% Ethanol mixed with 15% gasoline it's 9.86:1.

Do Ferrari/Merc run stoich AFR at WOT? Maybe during qualifying they run rich so they can add more ignition timing and make more power, and during the race they change to stoich or lean mixture to save fuel. Maybe Mercedes are better at running rich, hence why they qualify better than us.

The rest of what you wrote didn't make much sense.

[Zerocool]

It's not about ratios, it's about stoichiometry. Stoichiometry in engines refers to burning all the available fuel in the combustion reaction (neither lean nor rich). For straight gasoline it's 14.7:1, but for other fuels it's different. Like 85% Ethanol mixed with 15% gasoline it's 9.86:1.

Do Ferrari/Merc run stoich AFR at WOT? Maybe during qualifying they run rich so they can add more ignition timing and make more power, and during the race they change to stoich or lean mixture to save fuel. Maybe Mercedes are better at running rich, hence why they qualify better than us.

The rest of what you wrote didn't make much sense.

stoichiometry is just a term used to define the ratio ie if the air and fuel mixture is in proper proportion for complete combustion then it is stoic else it is non stoic and that's it and its nothing more complex than that also how do u say that its not about ratios and what do you mean by that..? Ratio is the basic of stoichiometry without ratios there is nothing called stoichiometry.

And you r just saying what I and others were saying before and nothing new in it but only just some fancy terms to confuse things up...

Finally which part I said did not make sense..? Let me know I'd be happy to explain..!

[From Treviso]

The 062 that should make its debut at Silverstone will contain a number of novelties in the area of ​​combustion so that room pressure should reach 400 bar and the compression ratio will reach 16.

Ferrari will debut engine number 3 to Silverstone: on the fast English circuit, the Cavallino team will mount Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen's SF70H a power unit with important technical innovations that should help close the power gap from the Mercedes 6-cylinder In the fast trails of the Baku circuit has revealed yet a sensible superiority.

The second that the Reds got into qualifying by the silver arrows ... it burns a lot, especially since Lewis Hamilton did not use full power in the Azera pole position, content with using an overboost set at level 8 of 10 allowed.

Also at Brixworth, where design and construction of the 6-cylinder Mercedes are, they do not want to jump in the dark, endangering the duration of the thermal engine, in the knowledge that a slice of irreducible title is just about reliability.

In qualifying, the Star would have used an experimental gas with a very high calorific power, which would not be used in the race because the Petronas engineers feared that it could create overheating of the power unit in Safety Cars.

Given the progress of the Azerbaijan GP this is a choice that may have made sense, but Maranello must have realized Brackley has a solution in his pocket that seems to make a difference.

Ferrari engine number 3 should ensure a performance jump thanks to a development in the area of ​​combustion, which represents the "Pandora Vessel" of motorists. On the advanced 062 you should reach the 400 bar of room pressure and a compression ratio of 16: 1, values ​​unthinkable until recently.

We talk about steel alloy pistons that would be made in Addicting Manufacturing, able to withstand higher stresses, but with a weight just above traditional aluminum alloys thanks to the CFD design that allows you to have minimal thickness thanks To the honeycomb core which also allows for easier heat dispersion.

At the same time, there will be a development in Mahle's Turbulent Jet Ignition System (TJI) system that should allow a pre-combustion chamber to facilitate flame propagation that should be associated with a double Magneti Marelli micro-injector To ensure multi injected (pre-combustion, combustion, cooling).

This unit should debut in parallel with a specific Shell gasoline: since the beginning of the 062 development it is about fifty more horses. Mica's little stuff ..
taken from https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...ancora-924343/

[jragona]

Sounds promising...

[stefa]

Sounds really nice, but than 50BHP.... .... We'll see

[From Treviso]

Sounds really nice, but than 50BHP.... .... We'll see

I read it as that the accumulated total gain to date by using the Shell fuel will reach 50HP. If that it true, then we won't be seeing a 50HP jump at Silverstone. However, it'll be interesting what the new piston/injector/combustion chamber/compression ratio technology will bring. I'm tipping it'll be about more efficiency, which means more available fuel for the duration of the race. I hope I'm wrong, even though it's probably true what Renault said, which is that we will no longer see any more big performance jumps; just small evolutionary, incremental gains. Maybe this may well be the last big jump that we'll see for a while until Honda adopts current/latest technology!

[piglett]

16 to 1 compression is alot. 50Hp is possible. Why are you debating this? May i remind everyone that horsepower is a relationship between torque and rpm?
The high compression ratio gurantees higher low rpm torque. Assuming the boost remains at the same levels we'll see a nice increase in torque before peakpower rpms. That's all we need for getting faster out of corners and keeping rear tires nice and toasty.

[mwk360]

Renault "MAGIC BREAKTHROUGH" With Baku upgrade

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2...h-baku-upgrade

[mwk360]

Red Bull and Mercs always introducing upgrades and fixes, Looking at Canada and Baku, they've gotten much much faster than before

Renault & Red Bull soon to get even quicker and more reliable

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...l-supply-boost

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...st-reliability

Why is Ferrari so slow in this regard?

[mwk360]

2017 F1: Red Bull says loss of oil 'trick' hurt Ferrari


Speculation is increasing that a technical controversy is behind Ferrari's sudden dip in form.

The Italian team was riding a wave of form this year until the last two races in Canada and Baku.





One suggestion is that an FIA clampdown about the adding of oil to fuel was specifically targeted against Ferrari.

"There is someone who is now with the silver team that came from the red team and knew what to look for," Red Bull team boss is quoted by Osterreich newspaper.

The implication is that Mercedes raised the alarm about the 'trick' Ferrari system.

However, Dr Helmut Marko thinks Sebastian Vettel is still the 2017 title favourite.

"Even though Ferrari apparently lost some engine power due to the oil in the fuel story, Sebastian is the strongest in the races," the Red Bull official told Kronen Zeitung.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-314898.html

[Greig]

Red Bull and Mercs always introducing upgrades and fixes, Looking at Canada and Baku, they've gotten much much faster than before

Renault & Red Bull soon to get even quicker and more reliable

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...l-supply-boost

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...st-reliability

Why is Ferrari so slow in this regard?

Because Ferrari don't speak to the media about what they are doing....