Thread: Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

  1. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    What will we do about it???
    I dont think Ferrari needed that loophole as they weren't doing that illegal heating, so no progress for ferrari, but makes sense how Mercs have gotten tyre issues completely solved now.

  2. #2522
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    I think McLaren-Ferrari would be a good idea. We could give them faulty engines

  3. #2523
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    What will we do about it???
    Maybe thats why Bottas was lightning fast from the get go and blew away Seb on the US in Austria? just thinking

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    Mclaren Alfa Romeo ��

  5. #2525
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    Looks like the Sauber Honda deal is off.... apperently Honda are not happy they sacked monisha. Does this mean they'll be powered by ferrari again next year ?

    Hondamay be struggling to persuade McLaren to stick with them, but have they scrapped their deal to supplySauberwith engines in 2018?

    That is the claim from German publication BILD, who say that the Japanese firm were not happy about Monisha Kaltenborne's axing as team boss. The Japanese firm only confirmed they were powering Sauber next season in April.

    ‘The Sauber-Honda deal has burst,' a BILD report says. 'Honda is dissatisfied with the personnel changes of the Swiss team. The contract for a three-year intensive cooperation was negotiated by Monisha Kaltenborn. The Honda bosses had high hopes in the Austrian who saved Sauber from the brink, but Sauber and Kaltenborn separated almost four weeks ago.

    'This means that Sauber is currently without a motor for the coming year - and above all without the factory support that the Japanese wanted to grant to the Swiss team. The most likely solution is to remain as a customer at Ferrari.'
    Source: skyf1

  6. #2526
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    So McLaren will stick with Honda for next year.

  7. #2527
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    So McLaren will stick with Honda for next year.
    And Sauber with Ferrari. YEEEESS. YES.YES.YES. YES. YES.

  8. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    And Sauber with Ferrari. YEEEESS. YES.YES.YES. YES. YES.
    If true it is good for us. We'll have three teams running the new power units next year.

  9. #2529
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    If true it is good for us. We'll have three teams running the new power units next year.
    unless Sauber will get 2017 engines for next year as they will be cheaper

  10. #2530
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    I dont think Ferrari needed that loophole as they weren't doing that illegal heating, so no progress for ferrari, but makes sense how Mercs have gotten tyre issues completely solved now.
    But as I understand this is illegal, we need to do something

  11. #2531
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    But as I understand this is illegal, we need to do something
    i havent' had time to read the whole article....what are they doing illegaly this year in just a few words???

  12. #2532
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    i havent' had time to read the whole article....what are they doing illegaly this year in just a few words???
    "The FIA ​​has already forbidden the pre-heating of the hydraulic actuators of the chassis at GP Azerbaijan. Five Formula 1 teams are said to have used the clever technique trick until then - including Mercedes."

    " There are artifices that can not be forbidden. Mercedes is supposed to have placed the hydraulic actuators so cleverly in the gearbox that they heat up almost "accidentally". It is assumed that gear oil conduits pass or pass through the actuators. The heat radiation thus influences the viscosity of the hydraulic oil. Preheating would be easy because each team can gear the gearbox in the booth, as often and as long as you want. The transmission oil and the surrounding environment are also heated.

    An FIA man confirmed to automotor and sport that such a practice would not be punishable: "We can not prescribe anyone where he builds his suspension components and what is in their environment"

    Mercedes got his tire problems under control, and after the break in Monte Carlo spoke of "new tools", which should help to overcome the tire riddle. Since then the fluctuations between training and race and the individual tire types are not so great. Anyone who can change the characteristics of the hydraulic dampers and stabilizers between training and racing in a clever way would always use the tires perfectly, depending on the task.

    google translated ofc

  13. #2533
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    If true it is good for us. We'll have three teams running the new power units next year.
    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    unless Sauber will get 2017 engines for next year as they will be cheaper
    the only issue I have with the Honda deal not going through is.......Money; can they make it??

  14. #2534
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    i havent' had time to read the whole article....what are they doing illegaly this year in just a few words???
    in so many words....oil burning in the combustion chamber for added boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    "The FIA ​​has already forbidden the pre-heating of the hydraulic actuators of the chassis at GP Azerbaijan. Five Formula 1 teams are said to have used the clever technique trick until then - including Mercedes."

    " There are artifices that can not be forbidden. Mercedes is supposed to have placed the hydraulic actuators so cleverly in the gearbox that they heat up almost "accidentally". It is assumed that gear oil conduits pass or pass through the actuators. The heat radiation thus influences the viscosity of the hydraulic oil. Preheating would be easy because each team can gear the gearbox in the booth, as often and as long as you want. The transmission oil and the surrounding environment are also heated.

    An FIA man confirmed to automotor and sport that such a practice would not be punishable: "We can not prescribe anyone where he builds his suspension components and what is in their environment"

    Mercedes got his tire problems under control, and after the break in Monte Carlo spoke of "new tools", which should help to overcome the tire riddle. Since then the fluctuations between training and race and the individual tire types are not so great. Anyone who can change the characteristics of the hydraulic dampers and stabilizers between training and racing in a clever way would always use the tires perfectly, depending on the task.

    google translated ofc
    Whaaaaaaaaaaa:............is this for somethine else????

  15. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    in so many words....oil burning in the combustion chamber for added boost.



    Whaaaaaaaaaaa:............is this for somethine else????
    I think so :-O

    here

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...-12222370.html

    decipher please :P

  16. #2536
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    I think so :-O

    here

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...-12222370.html

    decipher please :P
    oooookay, nah dude, that's for the suspension system - -> FRIC

  17. #2537
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    oooookay, nah dude, that's for the suspension system - -> FRIC
    you sure? they said 5teams were using it till the Baku GP and so mercedes started using this new method since FIA banned it there

  18. #2538
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    you sure? they said 5teams were using it till the Baku GP and so mercedes started using this new method since FIA banned it there
    did you bother looking at when this was published??? Also, the bottom quote was taken from what was published in the article that was posted in your post #2532.

    An FIA man confirmed to automotor and sport that such a practice would not be punishable: "We can not prescribe anyone where he builds his suspension components and what is in their environment"

  19. #2539
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    I think so :-O

    here

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...-12222370.html

    decipher please :P
    Its the suspension system.
    They use the hydraulic oil and heat it up, so when it goes into the dampers.
    I dont know what else is there, but they use the heat from the gearbox to expand the suspension so it sits exactly like they want. A constant ride height.
    Its banned, but FIA cannot do anything about it when they dont see it or explain it. Then, what good is the FIA I have to ask!

  20. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    Its the suspension system.
    They use the hydraulic oil and heat it up, so when it goes into the dampers.
    I dont know what else is there, but they use the heat from the gearbox to expand the suspension so it sits exactly like they want. A constant ride height.
    Its banned, but FIA cannot do anything about it when they dont see it or explain it. Then, what good is the FIA I have to ask!
    man, these mercedes guys are brilliant.....why can't Ferrari think of innovative stuff like that??? pretty cutting EDGE stuff if you ask me...
    Last edited by FerrariF60; 11th July 2017 at 17:26.

  21. #2541
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    man, these mercedes guys are brilliant.....why can Ferrari think of innovative stuff like that??? pretty cutting EDGE stuff if you ask me...

  22. #2542
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    Wierd that Taxi,McCheats,Drink company and the little drink company all have this...

    Spying comes in mind again how else could they know ? 4-5 teams is not coincidence.
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

  23. #2543
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    Another analysis from Phil Bruznic of Drivetribe.com about Pre-heating Chassis Components.

    During the Grand Prix weekend in Baku the FIA had made it clear to the teams that it does not allow them to preheat their hydraulic components of their chassis. Five teams are directly involved with such preheating activities, even when the cars are parked in the Parc Fermé. The Germans of Auto, motor und sport are reporting the next saga in the hydraulic suspension series.

    According to AMUS Ferrari suspects Mercedes to have solved their tire troubles on an illegal way. Of course the engineers of the German team react differently. So how much of it is true? Well, there is the fact that the hydraulic suspension, as we knew it in 2016, has been forbidden earlier this year. But are there legal ways around these prohibited regulations?

    The answer to that question seems to come from Mercedes. If you make a new system you just have to make it so complicated that the FIA stewards can not asses it in its totality. But Mercedes is only one of five teams who are under suspect. The other four are Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso, Force India and McLaren. So how did they do it?

    All of these five teams have one thing in common. All of them said goodbye to the classic shock absorbers and rear stabilizers. Instead they all went for a hydraulic actuators approach, with which they can control the ride height, the rolling behavior and any up or down movement the car makes. And, in order to hide them from the outside world, these actuators are placed inside the gearbox housing.

    Samples have shown that all five of them used preheated oil in those actuators. They preheated them even when the cars where under strict Parc Fermé rules. By heating up the oil the teams are changing the characteristics of said oil, and with it the characteristics of the car. For instance, the teams were able to give their cars the ideal ground clearance before the start of the race.

    Force India is one team that had preheated their hydraulic elements with hot air, in the garage. All this in order to get the oil at the temperatures it would eventually get while driving. Technician Andy Green doesn't deny this: "Our goal was to keep the temperature of the hydraulic oil and therefore the ground clearance constant. With cold oil, the vehicle is lower than when it is hot. Because the oil warms up during driving, you have to calculate precisely how you can adjust the ground clearance while stationary, so that the desired ground clearance is achieved later, during the race."

    Under the Parc Fermé rules, between qualifying and the race, the car can not be technically altered, unless it involves repairs for safety reasons. And this can only be done after getting clearance by the FIA. The FIA has ​​explained in Baku to all concerned teams that external preheating of chassis components is prohibited. By "external" they mean heating systems, which are connected to chassis components. As this would violate the Parce fermé rules. It is seen as a deliberate intervention in the chassis setup, like installing other dampers or stabilizers. After the Grand Prix the technicians were, once again, warned that preheating is no longer tolerated. Green groaned: "Without preheating, the drivers have to drive extremely fast during the laps to the starting grid so that the hydraulic oil heats up quickly. Only then can they feel if the balance of the car is where they want it."

    So has this put an end to all the trickery? Not quite...

    There are loopholes at the moment that can not be forbidden. Mercedes has been suspected to have placed the hydraulic actuators so cleverly in their gearbox housing that they heat up almost "randomly". It is assumed that oil ducts, containing oil from the gearbox, pass close besides or through the actuators. And thus would the heat radiation influence the viscosity of the hydraulic oil. Preheating would be easy that way because each team can make the gearbox shift as often and as long as they want, while the car sits in the garage. Hereby would the transmission oil and the surrounding environment be heated.

    A FIA steward confirmed to AMUS that such a practice would not be punishable: "We can not prescribe anyone where he builds his suspension components and what is in their environment. Theoretically, one could also alienate an exhaust manifold for heating. We can only intervene when the warm-up happens in an unnatural way."

    Mercedes' rivals became suspicious when the German team got their tire problems under control, and after Monte Carlo spoke of "new tools", which should help with the handling of the tire rims. Since then the fluctuations between training and race and the individual tire types are far less than they were the races before. Anyone who can change the characteristics of the hydraulic dampers and stabilizers between training and racing in a clever way would always get the tires to work perfectly.

    In the end there is only one way to close these loopholes: to outlaw hydraulic suspensions. But to get that kind of rule change, for 2018, there has to be a total unanimity. And we know how F1 teams are...

    Source: https://drivetribe.com/p/mercedes-lo...QSiKDGUZQxAKVw

  24. #2544
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    Welp. We find our own performance gains then.

  25. #2545
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    Quote Originally Posted by giulia View Post
    Another analysis from Phil Bruznic of Drivetribe.com about Pre-heating Chassis Components.

    During the Grand Prix weekend in Baku the FIA had made it clear to the teams that it does not allow them to preheat their hydraulic components of their chassis. Five teams are directly involved with such preheating activities, even when the cars are parked in the Parc Fermé. The Germans of Auto, motor und sport are reporting the next saga in the hydraulic suspension series.

    According to AMUS Ferrari suspects Mercedes to have solved their tire troubles on an illegal way. Of course the engineers of the German team react differently. So how much of it is true? Well, there is the fact that the hydraulic suspension, as we knew it in 2016, has been forbidden earlier this year. But are there legal ways around these prohibited regulations?

    The answer to that question seems to come from Mercedes. If you make a new system you just have to make it so complicated that the FIA stewards can not asses it in its totality. But Mercedes is only one of five teams who are under suspect. The other four are Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso, Force India and McLaren. So how did they do it?

    All of these five teams have one thing in common. All of them said goodbye to the classic shock absorbers and rear stabilizers. Instead they all went for a hydraulic actuators approach, with which they can control the ride height, the rolling behavior and any up or down movement the car makes. And, in order to hide them from the outside world, these actuators are placed inside the gearbox housing.

    Samples have shown that all five of them used preheated oil in those actuators. They preheated them even when the cars where under strict Parc Fermé rules. By heating up the oil the teams are changing the characteristics of said oil, and with it the characteristics of the car. For instance, the teams were able to give their cars the ideal ground clearance before the start of the race.

    Force India is one team that had preheated their hydraulic elements with hot air, in the garage. All this in order to get the oil at the temperatures it would eventually get while driving. Technician Andy Green doesn't deny this: "Our goal was to keep the temperature of the hydraulic oil and therefore the ground clearance constant. With cold oil, the vehicle is lower than when it is hot. Because the oil warms up during driving, you have to calculate precisely how you can adjust the ground clearance while stationary, so that the desired ground clearance is achieved later, during the race."

    Under the Parc Fermé rules, between qualifying and the race, the car can not be technically altered, unless it involves repairs for safety reasons. And this can only be done after getting clearance by the FIA. The FIA has ​​explained in Baku to all concerned teams that external preheating of chassis components is prohibited. By "external" they mean heating systems, which are connected to chassis components. As this would violate the Parce fermé rules. It is seen as a deliberate intervention in the chassis setup, like installing other dampers or stabilizers. After the Grand Prix the technicians were, once again, warned that preheating is no longer tolerated. Green groaned: "Without preheating, the drivers have to drive extremely fast during the laps to the starting grid so that the hydraulic oil heats up quickly. Only then can they feel if the balance of the car is where they want it."

    So has this put an end to all the trickery? Not quite...

    There are loopholes at the moment that can not be forbidden. Mercedes has been suspected to have placed the hydraulic actuators so cleverly in their gearbox housing that they heat up almost "randomly". It is assumed that oil ducts, containing oil from the gearbox, pass close besides or through the actuators. And thus would the heat radiation influence the viscosity of the hydraulic oil. Preheating would be easy that way because each team can make the gearbox shift as often and as long as they want, while the car sits in the garage. Hereby would the transmission oil and the surrounding environment be heated.

    A FIA steward confirmed to AMUS that such a practice would not be punishable: "We can not prescribe anyone where he builds his suspension components and what is in their environment. Theoretically, one could also alienate an exhaust manifold for heating. We can only intervene when the warm-up happens in an unnatural way."

    Mercedes' rivals became suspicious when the German team got their tire problems under control, and after Monte Carlo spoke of "new tools", which should help with the handling of the tire rims. Since then the fluctuations between training and race and the individual tire types are far less than they were the races before. Anyone who can change the characteristics of the hydraulic dampers and stabilizers between training and racing in a clever way would always get the tires to work perfectly.

    In the end there is only one way to close these loopholes: to outlaw hydraulic suspensions. But to get that kind of rule change, for 2018, there has to be a total unanimity. And we know how F1 teams are...

    Source: https://drivetribe.com/p/mercedes-lo...QSiKDGUZQxAKVw
    hope Eddie Jordan was right about Mercedes leaving in the fuure, no team can match there car development and brain team.
    after Monaco Ferrari has become a clear no.2 car

  26. #2546
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    hope Eddie Jordan was right about Mercedes leaving in the fuure, no team can match there car development and brain team.
    after Monaco Ferrari has become a clear no.2 car
    well if Vettel can win WDC in 'no.2 car' that will be fine

  27. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    hope Eddie Jordan was right about Mercedes leaving in the fuure, no team can match there car development and brain team.
    after Monaco Ferrari has become a clear no.2 car

    Really ??.............well from my view point, we had a helluva competitive car in austria!.......

    I tell you what..........Lets talk after this weekend's race and we'll see if we're no 2 in the pecking order......Deal ??
    Drive it like you stole it!

  28. #2548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super M View Post
    Really ??.............well from my view point, we had a helluva competitive car in austria!.......

    I tell you what..........Lets talk after this weekend's race and we'll see if we're no 2 in the pecking order......Deal ??

  29. #2549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    well if Vettel can win WDC in 'no.2 car' that will be fine
    i hope so man ,I think he needs a win asap and put some pressure on hamilton and bottas. since mercs fixed there tyre issues Seb hasnt been able to get P1 ...Yet

  30. #2550
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    Welp. We find our own performance gains then.
    It's a very good time to assess and copy the solution if necessary. I expect vehicle dynamics improvement later in Spa (I don't think of Hungary because the timeline is too narrow, but, hey I wish I'm wrong).

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