Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

[GrndLkNatv]

Compressed air?

Also, we will be able to reduce the boost pressure which will help in improving reliability and will also help us to reduce the size and weight of the cylinder block (less pressure = lesser wall thickness between the cylinder and the outer part of the cylinder block) which means laptime improvement this doesn't stop there, since the size is now reduced it means compact engine and improvements in center of gravity for the engine also this helps us to pack the components much closer, which means tighter aero package, reduction in drag and so many other benefits..........

Forgot an another thing to mention because of the lower boost pressure we don't have to carry as much compressed air as we did before, which also is weight savings coz when more air is compressed into a compartment it gains weight which adds to weight of the car and also the turbo doesn't have to work as hard as it does now.... So that we will be able to change the design of turbo and save some weight savings there too...

[nani_s23]

Are we already running the new ICE or that will be tomorrow FP3 ?

There is no such upgrade

[FerrariF60]

There is no such upgrade

so all the talk on here about Ferrari bringing an engine update to Baku was jsut PLAIN rumors???

bummer....

[Stormy]

so all the talk on here about Ferrari bringing an engine update to Baku was jsut PLAIN rumors???

bummer....

I don't know, maybe some of these things are top secret and we can't know for sure?

[Zerocool]

Compressed air?

Turbocharger compresses the air and while compression it heats up the air, hence why we have intercooler to cool down the compressed air before it enters the combustion chamber because the turbulent air (hot air is called as turbulent air) reduces the efficiency of combustion.

They call the boost pressure to 3.5 or 4.5 bar... That is the amount of air present in the chamber, to be more precise 1 atm = 1.0325 bar which is the normal atmospheric pressure we live in but inside the chamber it is 4.5 times higher(if the boost pressure is 4.5) which is 4.55.. Bar. So in order to increase the pressure inside the cylinder more air must be forced into the cylinder forcing too much air inside a chamber can only be done with compression of it and hence why I called it "compressed air"... It not only in the combustion chamber but the air is also held up in intercooler and the pipings....

[nani_s23]

so all the talk on here about Ferrari bringing an engine update to Baku was jsut PLAIN rumors???

bummer....

As of now it's the fact. Dont know about today updates on car.

[mardyrt]

Turbocharger compresses the air and while compression it heats up the air, hence why we have intercooler to cool down the compressed air before it enters the combustion chamber because the turbulent air (hot air is called as turbulent air) reduces the efficiency of combustion.

They call the boost pressure to 3.5 or 4.5 bar... That is the amount of air present in the chamber, to be more precise 1 atm = 1.0325 bar which is the normal atmospheric pressure we live in but inside the chamber it is 4.5 times higher(if the boost pressure is 4.5) which is 4.55.. Bar. So in order to increase the pressure inside the cylinder more air must be forced into the cylinder forcing too much air inside a chamber can only be done with compression of it and hence why I called it "compressed air"... It not only in the combustion chamber but the air is also held up in intercooler and the pipings....

Hot air is not called turbulent air, tubulent air is caused by some movement, or if an object moves and moves the air, causing eddies and vortecies and other unwanted irregular motion. Hot air is just that, hot air. They cool the air from the compressor because mainly, having hot air goes into the cylinder, it can cause auto ignition, before the spark. So, cooling the air, you can control the ignition timing with the spark. Actually, turbulence is good for the mixing of fuel and air, so engineers want to have turbulent air, so it helps to mix and create a swirl effect.

[Silent Bob]

Turbocharger compresses the air and while compression it heats up the air, hence why we have intercooler to cool down the compressed air before it enters the combustion chamber because the turbulent air (hot air is called as turbulent air) reduces the efficiency of combustion.

They call the boost pressure to 3.5 or 4.5 bar... That is the amount of air present in the chamber, to be more precise 1 atm = 1.0325 bar which is the normal atmospheric pressure we live in but inside the chamber it is 4.5 times higher(if the boost pressure is 4.5) which is 4.55.. Bar. So in order to increase the pressure inside the cylinder more air must be forced into the cylinder forcing too much air inside a chamber can only be done with compression of it and hence why I called it "compressed air"... It not only in the combustion chamber but the air is also held up in intercooler and the pipings....

I really doubt the compressed air from the turbo really weighs much. The charge air is cooled to make it denser, so more air can be compressed into the combustion chamber, hence more power, cooler combustion more equal combustion. Compressing air into the chamber is the whole purpose of the turbo. Getting that charge as cool as possible is the intercoolers job. More air = more power.

[jgonzalesm6]

I really doubt the compressed air from the turbo really weighs much. The charge air is cooled to make it denser, so more air can be compressed into the combustion chamber, hence more power, cooler combustion more equal combustion. Compressing air into the chamber is the whole purpose of the turbo. Getting that charge as cool as possible is the intercoolers job. More air = more power.

+1....one of the ways of forced induction. One thing to note, the exhaust gases drive the turbo....hence the term "turbo lag."

[Zerocool]

Hot air is not called turbulent air, tubulent air is caused by some movement, or if an object moves and moves the air, causing eddies and vortecies and other unwanted irregular motion. Hot air is just that, hot air. They cool the air from the compressor because mainly, having hot air goes into the cylinder, it can cause auto ignition, before the spark. So, cooling the air, you can control the ignition timing with the spark. Actually, turbulence is good for the mixing of fuel and air, so engineers want to have turbulent air, so it helps to mix and create a swirl effect.

Seriously I can't remember how/where I picked that ( hot air is turbulent air) from.

And actually the swirl effect is not created using turbulence but only with the design of combustion chamber, piston head and the fuel intake. Also swirl and turbulence are entirely different phenomenon the occur in different type of engines such as "si" and "ci" engines.

[Zerocool]

I really doubt the compressed air from the turbo really weighs much. The charge air is cooled to make it denser, so more air can be compressed into the combustion chamber, hence more power, cooler combustion more equal combustion. Compressing air into the chamber is the whole purpose of the turbo. Getting that charge as cool as possible is the intercoolers job. More air = more power.

Every gram matters in f1 and I believe you will agree on that. When air is compressed the mass increases, it is the fact and hence the weight will definitely increase atleast by some margin.

Coming to the more air = more power point, I agree on that but only to a certain level, it is not just as simple as that in f1. More air is forced into the cylinder only in order to facilitate complete combustion and to eliminate improper combustion, fuel needs certain quantity of air to burn completely and produce energy that it should/can and it is only the fuel which produces power not the air. Air only aid's the fuel to produce the power that it actually should. And also engines are designed by the more air = more power philosophy then we would end up with bulky engines for in order to cope up with the increased pressure inside cylinder and if not bulky engines then with engine blow up's. So everything is precise and are in the limit. Actually its about finding the right compromise..!!

[subfire91]

Are we the ones cheating with oil ??? Is it confirmed ?? I thought it was the mercs during their qualifying boost...

[mardyrt]

Seriously I can't remember how/where I picked that ( hot air is turbulent air) from.

And actually the swirl effect is not created using turbulence but only with the design of combustion chamber, piston head and the fuel intake. Also swirl and turbulence are entirely different phenomenon the occur in different type of engines such as "si" and "ci" engines.

Turbulence is related with swirl, swirl effect is a turbulent motion. This can be made from like you said with piston surface designs, the way the intake manifold is shaped, they also tune the inlet manifold with different lengths to manage the flow.
I was not saying turbulence creates swirl, but engineers create swirl, which is a turbulent motion. Sorry I did not write it correctly.
But swirl is a turbulent motion and they are related.
Engineers create swirl to mix the air and fuel in the cylinder so it can burn more efficiently.

[mardyrt]

Every gram matters in f1 and I believe you will agree on that. When air is compressed the mass increases, it is the fact and hence the weight will definitely increase atleast by some margin.

Coming to the more air = more power point, I agree on that but only to a certain level, it is not just as simple as that in f1. More air is forced into the cylinder only in order to facilitate complete combustion and to eliminate improper combustion, fuel needs certain quantity of air to burn completely and produce energy that it should/can and it is only the fuel which produces power not the air. Air only aid's the fuel to produce the power that it actually should. And also engines are designed by the more air = more power philosophy then we would end up with bulky engines for in order to cope up with the increased pressure inside cylinder and if not bulky engines then with engine blow up's. So everything is precise and are in the limit. Actually its about finding the right compromise..!!

Actually, the more air you can get into the cylinder, the more fuel you can burn. But, the more fuel you put in the cylinder does not mean you make more power. If you put more fuel, for less air, then you run the engine "rich" which mean there is more unburnt fuel in the exhaust.
The 1.6L mean the volume inside the cylinder, combined. There is a fuel flow rate of 100kg/hr, so they use this fuel, but using a turbo/compressor, you push in as much air as possible inside the cylinder. This is the 1st task. Then, you make the burn more efficient. Not all the fuel get burnt, but you want to get as close as possible to 100%. So, the more air you can put in, the better chance you have that you can burn all the fuel. Yes, the best way to do that is using a compressor.
Then, the engineers try to optimize the mixing of air and fuel, so when at the right time, the spark comes, the mix will be perfect and burn all the fuel.
You can cram in a huge turbo, but it will create lag or be really heavy, so yes, it does need to be balanced.

[Brakefade]

Actually, the more air you can get into the cylinder, the more fuel you can burn. But, the more fuel you put in the cylinder does not mean you make more power. If you put more fuel, for less air, then you run the engine "rich" which mean there is more unburnt fuel in the exhaust.
The 1.6L mean the volume inside the cylinder, combined. There is a fuel flow rate of 100kg/hr, so they use this fuel, but using a turbo/compressor, you push in as much air as possible inside the cylinder. This is the 1st task. Then, you make the burn more efficient. Not all the fuel get burnt, but you want to get as close as possible to 100%. So, the more air you can put in, the better chance you have that you can burn all the fuel. Yes, the best way to do that is using a compressor.
Then, the engineers try to optimize the mixing of air and fuel, so when at the right time, the spark comes, the mix will be perfect and burn all the fuel.
You can cram in a huge turbo, but it will create lag or be really heavy, so yes, it does need to be balanced.

The air fuel ratio needed to burn all the gasoline is 14.7:1. I don't think that's what F1 teams run though, especially on turbo cars. 14.7:1 is great for fuel economy, and running the engine under vacuum (part throttle), but once it get close to to 1 full atmosphere (WOT on a NA engine) you have to enrich the mixture to 12.5 to 13.0. This cools the combustion chamber, allowing you to run more ignition advance. Add a turbo and the load (atmospheres) on the engine go up. More load, more heat and you need to cool down the combustion chamber even further. So on a turbo car you might run 12.5 to 11.0 AFR.

[mardyrt]

The air fuel ratio needed to burn all the gasoline is 14.7:1. I don't think that's what F1 teams run though, especially on turbo cars. 14.7:1 is great for fuel economy, and running the engine under vacuum (part throttle), but once it get close to to 1 full atmosphere (WOT on a NA engine) you have to enrich the mixture to 12.5 to 13.0. This cools the combustion chamber, allowing you to run more ignition advance. Add a turbo and the load (atmospheres) on the engine go up. More load, more heat and you need to cool down the combustion chamber even further. So on a turbo car you might run 12.5 to 11.0 AFR.

Yes, exactly right. Now, there is a new thing that can be done, spray a little bit of water into the cylinder, so you can cool the engine without using fuel as the coolant. It helps to burn less fuel for the same power when using a turbo, but this can also be done with a NA engine you can run a higher compression ratio.
We did a bit of research about it. BMW use it in their M cars that run in the MotoGP races as the safety car.
Maybe this is what Mercedes has?

[Super M]

Are we the ones cheating with oil ??? Is it confirmed ?? I thought it was the mercs during their qualifying boost...

Can anybody help out here with the question asked by subfire ?

I must admit, after the baku quali i was somewhat disappointed. look i do understand that vettel had an engine change, and perhaps that played a part for him being off pace. But what about raikkonen ??

Are we in fact doing burning oil with fuel ? Has it come down to this why we were good so far this year ?? ( i really hope not )

But if you guys that know a lot more about this than me, please make me understand.

And if this is the situation, do you think we could develop our car like the mercs have done on recent races ?

#justwanttounderstand

[Jax]

Do we have anything new engine wise for the next gp ?

[mwk360]

Can anybody help out here with the question asked by subfire ?

I must admit, after the baku quali i was somewhat disappointed. look i do understand that vettel had an engine change, and perhaps that played a part for him being off pace. But what about raikkonen ??

Are we in fact doing burning oil with fuel ? Has it come down to this why we were good so far this year ?? ( i really hope not )

But if you guys that know a lot more about this than me, please make me understand.

And if this is the situation, do you think we could develop our car like the mercs have done on recent races ?

#justwanttounderstand

The way the news came out is that RB suspected Mercs at the beginning and asked FIA to check on it, then after Canada Mercedes saw that Ferrari were really fast on the straights and asked the FIA to check on Ferrari for oil burning. After FIA investigated they banned oil burning and Ferrari fell far off in Quali pace compared to Merecdes . a second slower, so im assuming it was Ferrari that had been burning oil to catch up to Mercs this year in Quali and hot laps.

FIA will not say the name of the team they found using it, but all fingers point at Ferrari

[mwk360]

Do we have anything new engine wise for the next gp ?

I dont think any upgrades coming soon, there was some engine fake news that at Baku, Ferrari will have upgrades but it was proven false, no mention even a hint about ANY upgrades coming at next race.

[mwk360]

I hope Ferrari dont lose the development race again, Mercs and RB continuously bring upgrades and get quicker

[Super M]

The way the news came out is that RB suspected Mercs at the beginning and asked FIA to check on it, then after Canada Mercedes saw that Ferrari were really fast on the straights and asked the FIA to check on Ferrari for oil burning. After FIA investigated they banned oil burning and Ferrari fell far off in Quali pace compared to Merecdes . a second slower, so im assuming it was Ferrari that had been burning oil to catch up to Mercs this year in Quali and hot laps.

FIA will not say the name of the team they found using it, but all fingers point at Ferrari

Damn! and you telling me that merc's aren't doing this then ??.....surely they gotta be doing something dodgy then ?

But thanks for your feed back.......really appreciate it, i'm enlightened now

[mwk360]

Damn! and you telling me that merc's aren't doing this then ??.....surely they gotta be doing something dodgy then ?

But thanks for your feed back.......really appreciate it, i'm enlightened now

lol you very welcome, but its just the way i understand the situation, i could be wrong

I think Mercs Engine has a super mode that they use for Quali and fast laps, but requires a lot of power

[Super M]

lol you very welcome, but its just the way i understand the situation, i could be wrong

I think Mercs Engine has a super mode that they use for Quali and fast laps, but requires a lot of power

So tracks like the UK, Belgium, Japan should suit the mercs then, is that what you're saying ( power wise ) ?

[mwk360]

So tracks like the UK, Belgium, Japan should suit the mercs then, is that what you're saying ( power wise ) ?

It seems so, but race pace is a little closer, I think Mercs struggle more than Ferrari if they have to follow a car

Hamilton was almost a second a lap quicker than Vettel right until that pits at Baku where Vettel came out in front and Hamilton just could not follow behind for too long and had to drop a little before having another go everytime, I think Mercs focus more on Quali because if they ahead no one can stop them as Bottas will never challenge Ham

[Super M]

It seems so, but race pace is a little closer, I think Mercs struggle more than Ferrari if they have to follow a car

Hamilton was almost a second a lap quicker than Vettel right until that pits at Baku where Vettel came out in front and Hamilton just could not follow behind for too long and had to drop a little before having another go everytime, I think Mercs focus more on Quali because if they ahead no one can stop them as Bottas will never challenge Ham

So essentially we're sort of doomed, unless of course Ferrari can come up with something else in the development stage ?

I know the mercs dont like following, so what you're saying makes sense! I just hope we don't go to sleep now and slowly fade away

[mwk360]

So essentially we're sort of doomed, unless of course Ferrari can come up with something else in the development stage ?

I know the mercs dont like following, so what you're saying makes sense! I just hope we don't go to sleep now and slowly fade away

Same here!

[Ferrarichamp]

do many people follow F1 in South Africa these days? I mean you a GP there back in the day, not to mention Jody Scheckter of course.

[Noquarter]

https://twitter.com/andihaupt1/statu...70891508097024

[mwk360]

do many people follow F1 in South Africa these days? I mean you a GP there back in the day, not to mention Jody Scheckter of course.

It's really really dropped off in interest around 2010~ onwards imo