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Thread: F1 suspension row brews ahead of 2017 season

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    about as real as Bernie Ecclestone:

    https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/13507?id=13507

    the 86yo tends to have more weight and credibility than you or I.
    I think Bernie forgets that Ferrari have been pretty much run by a succession of 'non-italians' the last few years. We had Tombazsis & Key and they failed to do much. We had Allison and he failed to do anything significant. The engine department was run by an Italian and it was arguably the best part of the car. Maybe we need to let the Italians within the team have a go. I like the idea of letting the young engineers express their ideas and have a say. Maybe by giving some of these young guns a chance we will come up with some radical new ideas instead of recycling others.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Ah so your just another one of those fans, got it
    yes...whos expectations and standards are higher than some....excuse me for expecting that out of a team that has been in the sport for 70+ years and only 16 WCC titles.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    yes...whos expectations and standards are higher than some....excuse me for expecting that out of a team that has been in the sport for 70+ years and only 16 WCC titles.
    The sport has changed, we are not in the MS era up against Williams, Jordan and McLaren no more.
    Forza Ferrari

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    The sport has changed, we are not in the MS era up against Williams, Jordan and McLaren no more.

    Really????? If there was one word in F1, that word is adaptability and he who adapts fastest.....wins.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Really????? If there was one word in F1, that word is adaptability and he who adapts fastest.....wins.
    You can't adapt over night in this sport, many are realistic and realise we have been left behind and it will take time to recover, you can enjoy that ride back to the top or scream and cry about it but it won't change a thing.
    Forza Ferrari

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    You can't adapt over night in this sport, many are realistic and realise we have been left behind and it will take time to recover, you can enjoy that ride back to the top or scream and cry about it but it won't change a thing.


    THIS!!! People need to enjoy the ride more. We're lucky Ferrari even competes! They don't have Mercedes money, or even Honda money... but look at Honda!

    As Greig said, let's enjoy the ride. Today is not the end of the road, we're travelling it. I remember the glory years fondly, and I watch every race with as much enthusiasm now as I did when I watched Kimi win the 07' championship. Love the experience. Ferrari will be back and and I'll support them every step of the way there.

    The off season makes me realise how much I appreciate F1... JUST RELAX AND BE GRATEFUL WE'VE GOT F1 AND FERRARI IN OUR LIVES!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    THIS!!! People need to enjoy the ride more. We're lucky Ferrari even competes! They don't have Mercedes money, or even Honda money... but look at Honda!
    What do you mean we don't have their money? 2016 we had the lowest budget of the big 4 but still, the budget gap is not that big, and it varies from year to year. Sometimes we are second, sometimes first, sometimes third but in all cases, the budget gap is not big.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    What do you mean we don't have their money? 2016 we had the lowest budget of the big 4 but still, the budget gap is not that big, and it varies from year to year. Sometimes we are second, sometimes first, sometimes third but in all cases, the budget gap is not big.
    I was referring to the money generated by those organisations, not money spent by the respective F1 teams

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    I was referring to the money generated by those organisations, not money spent by the respective F1 teams
    +1 Volume is king from a global perspective and being heavily diverse in an automotive/aerospace/truck/electric/construction/ship building/lawn mowers/generators business model too.....which all generates $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    I was referring to the money generated by those organisations, not money spent by the respective F1 teams
    Yeah, but Ferrari got one of the richest family in the world behind it - Agnelli

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Really????? If there was one word in F1, that word is adaptability and he who adapts fastest.....wins.
    Ok so what's McLaren's excuse then?

    Can you stop your xenophobic railings on Italians please, McLaren is run by non-Italians and it's not working for them either. It's a bit childish too, you can't always win in sports nor in the real world. You have to learn to live with it some times too. Eventually Ferrari will be back on top.

    All of this childish moaning about this subject is becoming annoying really.

    Furthermore, sports are a business. If you are profitable in a given year, regardless of where you finish, the year is deemed a success.
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Ok so what's McLaren's excuse then?

    Can you stop your xenophobic railings on Italians please, McLaren is run by non-Italians and it's not working for them either. It's a bit childish too, you can't always win in sports nor in the real world. You have to learn to live with it some times too. Eventually Ferrari will be back on top.

    All of this childish moaning about this subject is becoming annoying really.


    1. Never mentioned Mclaren nor was it the topic of discussion...
    2. "Xenophobic railings on Italians" and your ANNOYED!!!!......Never assume that I am "xenophobic" towards a race.....I love Italians....and I never said anything derogatory or demeaning towards Italians and furthermore......if your annoyed.....GROW UP. Who's being "childish"??????? with your assumptions towards a race and annoyance.

    Furthermore, sports are a business. If you are profitable in a given year, regardless of where you finish, the year is deemed a success.
    3. While true on the business end, I don't share your "regardless of where you finish" mentallity.....but you are entitled to your own opinion.

  13. #73
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    Looks like we're back at it again:

    Formula 1 teams fail to reach consensus on trick suspension systems:

    By Jonathan Noble Published on Monday February 13th 2017


    Formula 1 teams have failed to reach an agreement on the legality of trick suspension systems, with a ruling now expected from the FIA before the start of pre-season testing.

    Debate about pre-loaded suspension systems has been ongoing since Ferrari designer Simone Resta wrote to F1 race director Charlie Whiting about the devices helping aerodynamic performance.

    Ferrari was believed to be seeking guidance on whether concepts used by rival teams were legal rather than seeking to develop its own.

    Whiting's response at the time was clear in that he felt any suspension system that improved performance through better ride-height and aerodynamics would be in breach of the rules.

    It is understood further discussions took place in a meeting of technical directors with the FIA last week, but there was no consensus between the competitors about what should and should not be allowed.

    Various ideas were proposed - including a return to conventional suspension, a switch to active suspension or no restriction on the current hydraulic concepts - but teams' opinions were split.

    It is understood that a fresh Technical Directive from Whiting giving his opinion on the situation is expected in the next fortnight.

    However, it is unclear whether this will impose restrictions on devices that have been developed by teams - forcing a major rework ahead of the 2017 campaign - or will state that complex systems are within the regulations.

    It is hoped the ruling will deliver clear guidelines on what is and is not allowed, and doing so before testing begins at Barcelona on February 27 would at least give teams time to adjust before the season opener next month.

    Should there be ongoing disagreements about the situation, it is possible the matter could result in a showdown at the Australian Grand Prix.

    Teams understand that opinions from Whiting are only advisory in nature, and binding interpretations of the regulations can only be laid down by race stewards at events or ultimately the FIA International Court of Appeal.

    The means that if a team is unhappy with what a rival is doing, then it can challenge it with an official protest at a grand prix.

    source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...sion-consensus

  14. #74
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    and here is another from a German report (translated)

    Ferrari failed in the chassis contest

    Is there a protest in Melbourne?


    Ferrari wanted to strangle the miracle chassis of Mercedes and Red Bull at the meeting of the technical working group. But the project failed due to a lack of fellow rivals.

    No comments yet

    On 7 February, the technicians of Formula 1 met for a regular meeting of the working group in Geneva. It was mainly about the "active" running gear of Mercedes and Red Bull. They are in the opinion of some competition teams in a gray zone of the regulations. Ferrari, in particular, is worried about the trick, the trick of the two World Cup favorites could decide the championship automatically in their favor.




    Ferrari fights against chassis stricks

    That is why Ferrari and a small followers fought on the mysterious chassis of the world champion and his challenger. It controls the roll stiffness and the ground clearance, depending on the driving condition. This means that the two top teams not only have dynamic advantages. Aerodynamics also benefits because the car is always attracted to the car.

    It is only known that the car is lowered on the straight line in order to provoke a flow break on the diffuser. This increases the top speed with the same flight setting. But you do not know why the quick thing is not the same thing.

    It has also been heard that the chassis progressively becomes softer when steered. The stronger the steering angle, the more so. In slow corners more than in fast. However, the steering angle must not be used as information. Nevertheless, the system reacts as a function of this.

    FIA considers landing gear to be legal

    Ferrari tried everything to get behind the secret, but failed. The Italians have bombarded the FIA ​​with inquiries, hoping to draw conclusions from the answers. But all that Ferrari and other teams suspect is illegal.

    The FIA, however, is of the opinion that Mercedes and Red Bull are moving on the ground. Even the abduction of engineers brought the other teams behind the mystery of the miracles. Obviously, the circle of the wits is extremely small.

    Ferrari not successful in technician meeting

    Some technicians wanted to ask the FIA ​​that Mercedes and Red Bull have to drop the pants. Or the FIA ​​explains why the chassis is legal in its opinion. But the campaign went unsuccessfully. Like Ferrari's attempt to write the rules around the chassis even more strictly to prevent excesses.

    Ferrari found only three competitors at the technology meeting. Too little to push for a change of rule. It could now turn out that a team in Melbourne protest, Mercedes or Red Bull should be superior there. Then the cards would have to be on the table.

    source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...-11678432.html

  15. #75
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    i think that this is not a big deal.i think what ferrari was really doing was getting a idea as to how far the limit is.they said they will have there system on the car this season.but remember a few years back they had a system ware they had little hydrolic dampers out at the hubs like lotus and they were told right before winter testing to remove them after they were told that they would pass tech

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by djmorin27 View Post
    i think that this is not a big deal.i think what ferrari was really doing was getting a idea as to how far the limit is.they said they will have there system on the car this season.but remember a few years back they had a system ware they had little hydrolic dampers out at the hubs like lotus and they were told right before winter testing to remove them after they were told that they would pass tech



    2006????? involving the mass damper??....if so, that was on the nose and rear of the chassis....considered illegal. If not 2006, please specify?

  17. #77
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    i think it was 11 or 12 ferrari was copying what lotus was doing.they were little hydrolic dampers between upper and lower a arms in and around the brake shrouds.it was to lift and lower the car under braking.i think the system was activated when they applied the brakes.it was going to be pretty big performance gainer.go back and check it out. i think it was alonso 2nd year at ferrari

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by djmorin27 View Post
    i think it was 11 or 12 ferrari was copying what lotus was doing.they were little hydrolic dampers between upper and lower a arms in and around the brake shrouds.it was to lift and lower the car under braking.i think the system was activated when they applied the brakes.it was going to be pretty big performance gainer.go back and check it out. i think it was alonso 2nd year at ferrari
    Got it......Reactive suspension!

  19. #79
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    I hope we do stand up to the fia controlling the sport with who gets to cheat and how. if its a fair playing field we would win more and the sport would be more competitive. I can only hope, its been years now.

  20. #80
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    FIA to issue clarification on 'trick' suspensions, Ferrari fails to find unanimous support Feb. 13, 2017

    The FIA is set to issue clarification on 'trick' suspension systems being used by Mercedes and Red Bull after Ferrari failed to gain support of all its rivals in a recent meeting of technical chiefs.

    Ferrari triggered a row over technology -- pioneered by Mercedes -- at the beginning of January, writing to the FIA to query whether certain concepts were legal. The question centred around a system used by Mercedes and Red Bull last year which Ferrari perceived to be a way of controlling ride heights to provide greater downforce and stability in corners and over kerbs.

    Ferrari's letter asked whether a system which would replicate Front and Rear Interconnected Suspension (FRIC, which was banned in 2014) without a physical connection between the front and rear of the car -- similar to the Mercedes and Red Bull concepts in question -- would be accepted under the regulations. The query was essentially a way of seeking guidance on whether rival concepts were illegal -- something FIA race director Charlie Whiting appeared to confirm in his response to Ferrari's enquiry.

    According to Auto Motor und Sport, in a recent meeting of team technical bosses, Ferrari only found support of three other teams. The split opinion is hardly surprising given how far along the teams are with development of their 2017 cars and how detrimental a new rules restriction could be for the upcoming season.

    Motorsport.com reports several ideas were proposed -- including a return to conventional suspension, a switch to active suspension or no restriction on the current concepts in question -- but teams failed to come to an agreement. It also states Whiting is expected to issue another technical directive on the issue before testing begins in Spain on February 27, which should help shape whether the controversy continues into winter testing.

    However, technical directives are only advisory in nature and it would be down to race stewards to make binding interpretations of the regulations -- meaning the row could rumble on until the Australian Grand Prix on March 26 if disagreements still exist and an official protest is lodged by a team.

    Article 3.15 of the regulations states that "any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car" -- effectively banning moveable aerodynamic devices.

    source: http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...nimous-support

    2nd independent source: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/240220/...n-protest.html

  21. #81
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    The FIA has moved to act on trick suspension systems, in a saga prompted by Ferrari requesting what was and wasn't legal late last year:
    FIA warns Formula 1 teams over trick suspension designs

  22. #82
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    According to motorsport, one team has been asked to change suspension. Redbull has not been looked at yet.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...-begin-878500/

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