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Thread: Ross Brawn - F1 faces a choice: engine noise or electric power

  1. #1
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    Ross Brawn - F1 faces a choice: engine noise or electric power

    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...electric-power


    NOISE!!!!!!!! ALOT OF IT!!!!! thats my vote at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...electric-power


    NOISE!!!!!!!! ALOT OF IT!!!!! thats my vote at least.
    Electric power!! Gobs of torque++ Huge power++ High downforce++ Awesome racing++++

    The noise is not the substance of Formula 1, it is just window dressing. A formula that encourages nail-biting racing is much preferred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Pratola View Post
    Electric power!! Gobs of torque++ Huge power++ High downforce++ Awesome racing++++

    The noise is not the substance of Formula 1, it is just window dressing. A formula that encourages nail-biting racing is much preferred.
    The current formula in F1 does not work if Liberty wants F1 to move forward. In order for F1 to move forward, it must move backward. Adhering to the dominations and forward thinking of one manufacturer for its future goals and financial gains is not the future of F1. If F1 wants to be a true motorsport, it must go back to its roots....NA engine(3.0ltr V-10), less downforce, manual trans., steel brake rotors.....more driver input and more driver skill.

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    I still miss the good old days of PURE MOTOR racing.
    Forza Ferrari


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    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    I still miss the good old days of PURE MOTOR racing.

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    Engine noise all the way, and teams will still be able to work out how to make the cars competitive. as far as the road car element is concerned, i couldnt care less, cause this is is a sport, and when i watch it i dont think to myself, "wow i could be driving a car with a hand clutch in the future". Doesnt interest me at all. Only the sport does
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfunk257 View Post
    Engine noise all the way, and teams will still be able to work out how to make the cars competitive. as far as the road car element is concerned, i couldnt care less, cause this is is a sport, and when i watch it i dont think to myself, "wow i could be driving a car with a hand clutch in the future". Doesnt interest me at all. Only the sport does
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    Noise, I want my ears to be damaged at a GP weekend Noise, speed and driver skill is what F1 is for me, not that my car might one day have paddle shifts
    Forza Ferrari

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    NOISE ALL THE WAY!! Formula E already exists for those who favor it and are welcome to it. Formula H(ybrid) if they must but we're seeing how unsatisfactory that is now proving to be so why bother?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Noise, I want my ears to be damaged at a GP weekend Noise, speed and driver skill is what F1 is for me, not that my car might one day have paddle shifts
    Exactly!!! Could't agree more!!! In my road car I look for good audio system!!!! Again NOISE!!! HEAVY METAL \m/

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    Please God no, we want noise and basic racing without all the technical gubbins, F1 used to be the pinnacle of motorsport with man and machine being paramount. FE exists for those enjoying that particular medium, like everything else nowadays, there are too many niches being created and soon we won't recognise any of them because change happens before our eyes. And yes, I am an old fuddy-duddy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Please God no, we want noise and basic racing without all the technical gubbins, F1 used to be the pinnacle of motorsport with man and machine being paramount. FE exists for those enjoying that particular medium, like everything else nowadays, there are too many niches being created and soon we won't recognise any of them because change happens before our eyes.
    True. PU-Hybrids today in the current F1 cost in excess of $80 million. Currently, in todays cars they have dual clutch auto-trans that shifts 20milli-sec....thats pretty fast- no?. A NA 3ltr V-10 or V-12 DOHC engine can cost less than $300k. Steel rotors instead of CCD (which by the way are a marketing ploy on production cars due to the fact that they will never get up to temp. like an F1 car, and poeple that have cars with CCD are having problems). Tyres that last the whole race. By basically, going back to to basics ( yes, the body has to made of carbon-fiber for safety) you drive the costs way way WAY down. We have reached a point in the automotive world wHere the combustion engine and trans. are at a peak of efficiency all with traction control in all weather cond. Now, autonomous and electric are paving the way but that will never make it in F1.

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    Rules should be more simpler and more strict. No matter how much you invest, you can only be around 0.5 sec ahead of the slowest car. Driver talent would mean a lot more, you would have to have the best car and driver to win. Last year Mercs would have won even with Haryanto and Guttierez as drivers. A lot of noise, a PU that needs to be between 995-1000 HP( for example) and easier aero to deal with. Just throwing some ideas around, F1 needs to be more close or people will lose interest, no matter who is winning

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Rules should be more simpler and more strict. No matter how much you invest, you can only be around 0.5 sec ahead of the slowest car. Driver talent would mean a lot more, you would have to have the best car and driver to win. Last year Mercs would have won even with Haryanto and Guttierez as drivers. A lot of noise, a PU that needs to be between 995-1000 HP( for example) and easier aero to deal with. Just throwing some ideas around, F1 needs to be more close or people will lose interest, no matter who is winning
    I agree....why stop at 1000hp.....I was looking at somewhere between 1200-1500hp with a V-10 or V-12.....AND NO FUEL FLOW RATES!!!!!

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    Remember that F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport and by extension - of the auto industry. It SHOULD be involved in the development and showcase of new and innovative technologies. I love F1 because it is the very best in automotive technology. I agree the racing should be better - but not at the expense of technology. The two can work in unison to create great racing. F1 has the best engineers in the industry for crying out loud. What there is at the moment is a lack of will to change.
    Last edited by JPBD; 7th February 2017 at 01:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    Remember that F1 is the pinnacle of Motorsport and by extension - of the auto industry. It SHOULD be involved in the development and showcase of new and innovative technologies. I love F1 because it is the very best in automotive technology. I agree the racing should be better - but not at the expense of technology. The two can work in unison to create great racing. F1 has the best engineers in the industry for crying out loud. What there is at the moment is a lack of will to change.
    The auto industry is and will experience a shift in technology from an electric perspective and autonomous perspective due to high populated, congested, smog ridden global cities.....not viable in F1 as a motorsport. F1 has reached its potential in the late 90's all the way up to the late 2000's. This "green" or "earth-friendly" and autonomous technologies going forward have no place in ANY motorsport however it does have its place in the automotive world with the likes of Mercedes Benz, BMW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia, Tesla, and possibly Apple (they have $200+ billion in liquid cash). While true that F1 is/WAS the pinnacle of automotive technologies, that notion is based on the combustion engine, transmission, safety, braking and aero. Some/Most of which has transcended into the automotive industry already and has reached its peak. Going forward, the automobile is changing from a fuel pestpective (lithium batteries store energy, Hydrogen Cells store energy both of which are NOT fuels and still have to yield long-term results). Autonomy is rapidly growing with the likes of Tesla, Audi, and Mercedes Benz....everyone else will follow suit. F1 has to find itself going forward as to where it fits in these next 4 to 5 years(under new owners) as being the "pinnacle of motorsport" instead of just being a Motorsport while the auto industry goes "earth-friendly" in its autonomy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    The auto industry is and will experience a shift in technology from an electric perspective and autonomous perspective due to high populated, congested, smog ridden global cities.....not viable in F1 as a motorsport. F1 has reached its potential in the late 90's all the way up to the late 2000's. This "green" or "earth-friendly" and autonomous technologies going forward have no place in ANY motorsport however it does have its place in the automotive world with the likes of Mercedes Benz, BMW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia, Tesla, and possibly Apple (they have $200+ billion in liquid cash). While true that F1 is/WAS the pinnacle of automotive technologies, that notion is based on the combustion engine, transmission, safety, braking and aero. Some/Most of which has transcended into the automotive industry already and has reached its peak. Going forward, the automobile is changing from a fuel pestpective (lithium batteries store energy, Hydrogen Cells store energy both of which are NOT fuels and still have to yield long-term results). Autonomy is rapidly growing with the likes of Tesla, Audi, and Mercedes Benz....everyone else will follow suit. F1 has to find itself going forward as to where it fits in these next 4 to 5 years(under new owners) as being the "pinnacle of motorsport" instead of just being a Motorsport while the auto industry goes "earth-friendly" in its autonomy.
    I agree with this. The very idea of an automobile is changing. However, I feel for the most part Motorsport is insulated from this. I think F1 has to remain the pinnacle of Motorsport. This can still pertain to combustion engines, or combination of combustion and electric engines (if in the interests of performance and not the environment). For example, I don't hate the hybrid engines because the technology is mind blowing to me. I wish they sounded better, sure, and this could be achieved by removing limitations on revs, fuel flow, exhaust, etc. In concept, though, I find it incredibly exiting and in many ways is simply a superior engine to a NA one.

    Cost, of course, will always be the limiting factor unfortunately.

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    Cost, of course, will always be the limiting factor unfortunately.

    These hybrid-PU's are massively expensive that only auto-manufacturers that are heavily diverse in their marketing strategy can create. Honda has spent over $100 million each year with no return on investment(ROI). Mercedes has perfected it and "lobby-ied" or "pushed" it through the FIA only to benefit them and push it through their automobiles for the average consumer. Mercedes are going to put this technology in any cylinder configuration....thats how versatile it is. And for a manufacturer, as big as Mercedes is, to dicatate the sport of F1 at the expense of others is not good for the sport of F1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Exactly!!! Could't agree more!!! In my road car I look for good audio system!!!! Again NOISE!!! HEAVY METAL \m/


    Truth be told, I'd be pretty stoked over my car having paddle shifter & paddle clutch!!

    This whole "cars that are 5 sec faster (than the 2014 cars?) & harder to drive" is a red herring IMO. The increased aero & wider cars can't help but make passing even harder.
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    Technology is of course very helpful in our everyday lives even though some of us older people may not embrace it easily or want it to take over what we have known thus far. I accept the comments above as being perfectly valid but would still prefer F1 to be simplified and return to the days when technology and associated costs didn't diminish the meaning of motor-sport. which to me means racing between cars and drivers, not whoever has the biggest pockets. Are we heading for an autonomous F1? The drivers won't be happy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Technology is of course very helpful in our everyday lives even though some of us older people may not embrace it easily or want it to take over what we have known thus far. I accept the comments above as being perfectly valid but would still prefer F1 to be simplified and return to the days when technology and associated costs didn't diminish the meaning of motor-sport. which to me means racing between cars and drivers, not whoever has the biggest pockets. Are we heading for an autonomous F1? The drivers won't be happy!
    No, I don't us heading the down the "autonomous" F1 Wisepie....relax sir. However, the debate going forward is should we view F1 now and going forward as a "technological advancement" in automotive achievement OR should it stay as a motorsport????....true to its heritage. F1 has contributed alot to the road car in all aspects, but the road car is changing from a technical aspect with way more tech. than mechanical and at the speed of F1 pace. Yes, your right....F1 must....no...F1 has to be simpler.....and cost effective.

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    If F1 goes electric then I for one will walk away and stop being a fan, and that would be very hard as I've been into F1 since the Jochen Rindt days but I'd do it. I avoid Formula E as its pointless, I'd do the same if need be.

    Please no.. give us noise!
    Common doesn't mean "Come on"; "Should have" not "Should of" ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    I still miss the good old days of PURE MOTOR racing.

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    What's next, seeing which manufacturer can design the best automated car so the driver is removed from the equation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    What's next, seeing which manufacturer can design the best automated car so the driver is removed from the equation?
    Several have already done that given certain conditions in everyday traffic......from a manufacturer perspective....with option of switching back to manual-driver mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Several have already done that given certain conditions in everyday traffic......from a manufacturer perspective....with option of switching back to manual-driver mode.
    I know. My point was that just because something is innovative, it doesn't mean it belongs in F1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I know. My point was that just because something is innovative, it doesn't mean it belongs in F1.
    TRUE....I always thought that innovation in the automobile was F1 derived?...they did take-away traction control which now is some innovative ECU governed by the FIA......and how about that 1992 Williams FW14B(look that one up)......they still race the horse but I don't see that going rider-less. I don't see F1 EVER going autonomous or GPS/SAT nav.

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    Bring me noise, close racing and tough to drive cars and keep it a sport. I couldn't care less what the auto industry wants. They can go IF they don't want to compete in our sport.

    Imagine football changing the size of the ball, length of the field, number of players every other year just cause they are better trained.

    Keep to your values and history that made you great!

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    Leave electricity to Formula E, let's keep the noise

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    Noise must stay!! Pirrelli must go! They are runnig and ruining F1. They litterally adjust how many pits etc. by the tyres they put out for each race.

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