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Thread: Exclusive: Ferrari's $100 Million F1 Bonus At Risk(pub. Jan. 21, 2017)

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    Exclusive: Ferrari's $100 Million F1 Bonus At Risk(pub. Jan. 21, 2017)


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    I wonder how Ferrari would respond to this.
    Forza Ferrari


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    Okay....I'll bite....what the heck!

    Ferrari can respond in a number of ways:

    1.) Call their bluff.....If you take away our "privileged" money, we will leave the sport as a constructor and engine supplier!.......sure a LARGE fan base will stop watching and leave the sport which is $$$$$$$$$. The other teams will just buy other engines from MB or Renault and Honda....most likely MB. Ferrari generates in revenue over $500+ million in F1(profit-wise ?????)...so who is bluffing who. Politics sure, but you also have MB who supplies half the engines on the grid, RedBull with two teams on the grid and Mclaren who also gets "priveleged" money(not the scale of Ferrari) of its historical past....I believe Williams also gets a small amount of "privileged" money( but don't quote me on that).
    2.) Deal with it. Ferrari just has to "up its game" even more. The money gets spread to the lesser teams(Manor, Force India, Sauber) so they can have a fighting chance and survive. Liberty might also encourage new teams to come into the sport thereby having more cars on the grid.

    1) Question: What have the lessor teams done in the past 10 or 15yrs to the sport of F1? Drivers?......who?....
    2) Question: F1 is a dog eat dog environment, lesser teams come and go(Minardi, Jordan, Caterham, HRT, and the list goes on and on)....thats F1. So with that being
    said, maybe the top tier or top ten, can enter a 3rd car, as in MotoGP, to make up for the lost cars on the grid from lesser teams thereby promoting drivers
    up the grid.

    The current formula is, if I can use the term, "archaic" and maybe Liberty sees these archaic principles under the "Bernie-Era" as opportunities to change the sport of F1.

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    If Liberty evaluate that Ferrari won't leave even if they lose their $100M bonus, they might do it. However, F1 needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs F1.

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    Chris Sylt, the guy who wrote the article, hates Ferrari, so rest assured this is his "wish mountain" made out of some small fact molehill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nand0Nand0 View Post
    Chris Sylt, the guy who wrote the article, hates Ferrari, so rest assured this is his "wish mountain" made out of some small fact molehill.
    this one was published just a little over an hour ago at time of post

    http://sport360.com/article/motorspo...is-100m-bonus/

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    If we want F1 to survive and flourish again, some drastic action is needed. The 'big' guys always manage to get the funds to compete, win or lose, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the teams to share the proceeds from the sport in order to keep the grids healthy. Perhaps a fairer system should be devised, and even as a die-hard Tifoso, if Ferrari and the other big teams have to lose some of their extra payments, it is surely in the sport's and fans' interest.

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    In the article it says Ferrari gets $100m, while Manor gets half that. So that would suggest that all the teams receive money and it's distributed differently for all of them. So Ferrari won't be losing $100m, they just won't be getting as much.

    Part of me agrees with it, a more balanced budget, particularly with the lower ranked teams may help. If the bottom 5 teams had their own little season going on, it could make for some good racing.

    Then there is the fact that Ferrari has by far the largest fan base. So since Ferrari brings in the majority of audience, they in turn should be getting the most money.

    Finally the Ferrari leaving F1 threat is getting way old. Ferrari can't leave F1 as it would then lose way too much of their global audience, as well as an enormous financial hit. Ferrari would then be looking at LeMans, which truthfully only brings global attention for 1 race. This won't keep the sponsorship budget, or the same fan base.

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    All the "top" teams get a disproportionate piece of the money, in addition to Ferrari. Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes. I recall when Renault was in process of buying Lotus one of the big hold ups to finalising the deal was dependent on Renault negotiating a "favourable" deal with Bernie for their annual payment.
    Ferrari may have been the first but certainly not the only one getting "extra" money. I haven't looked at F1's annual payments to the teams for a couple of years, some interesting reading there if you are a numbers ($$$) guy.
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

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    I would support a Ferrari decision to leave F1 and follow and support them if/when they race in any other series. Liberty, FIA, FOM, STFU!

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    Ferrari DO get a huge chunk of money that nobody else gets. $45m from each division of the entire pot. Or at least that's how I remember it. So they're getting $90m just for being Ferrari...

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    I don't understand a thing written in that article. I re-read it twice but I still don't understand. Maybe I'm stupid but I don't understand. It seems to be written in english but I can't read it.

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    512TR the blowhard author was purposely heavy with the gobbledigook to try and impress readers but forgot that the principal purpose of writing is to communicate ideas?! Another guy I would stress should STFU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    I don't understand a thing written in that article. I re-read it twice but I still don't understand. Maybe I'm stupid but I don't understand. It seems to be written in english but I can't read it.
    that makes the two of us.
    Forza Ferrari


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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    I don't understand a thing written in that article. I re-read it twice but I still don't understand. Maybe I'm stupid but I don't understand. It seems to be written in english but I can't read it.
    It's simple once you understand time travelling is curved.

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    I do understand what Sylt is trying to say in the article but if that's Liberty Media's thinking and MO then we're in big trouble. They are completely mad if their reasoning is like what's quoted down below.

    This is basicly what it comes down to. These two quote: "Accordingly, it could be a huge risk for Ferrari to forego guaranteed prize money for the promise of greater sponsorship revenue if races are more exciting".

    "If you’re Ferrari, you have enormous sponsorship revenue that goes directly to you. That’s going to be impacted more positively by great races".

    First of all, Ferrari will not forego anything. If this is decided by Liberty it will be a forced move and nothing Ferrari can do about it, should Ferrari decide to stick around in F1. Second, what has greater sponsorship revenue to do with how exciting the races are? None. It's like comparing the price of apples to the prize of oranges. I swear there's something wrong in the heads of most people in the corporate world today.

    There's absolutely no guarantee that if the first 7 races are won by 7 different drivers like a few years ago that Ferrari will make more money from sponsorships. It's just empty talk. And by the way, of course they are going to go through with it. It's called socialism...
    Last edited by 512 TR; 24th January 2017 at 14:26.

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    Liberty bought the commercial rights for $8 billion assuming that ferrari would stick around for a long time. Technically we are only obliged to stay till 2020 right? But what if we choose to leave, I'm pretty sure they would lose quite a bit more than 100 million.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    Liberty bought the commercial rights for $8 billion assuming that ferrari would stick around for a long time. Technically we are only obliged to stay till 2020 right? But what if we choose to leave, I'm pretty sure they would lose quite a bit more than 100 million.
    +1 due to the accord agreement of 2020.......teams are obliged to stay till 2020....that does'nt mean they can sell the team to someone else and exit sooner(MB????). IMO, I don't think Ferrari will leave plus we are under new management headed in a new direction!!!!(F1 currently under the Bernie regime is/was being "earth-friendly" instead of being "fan-friendly".....Teams vested in their own interests instead of vested in the sports interest thereby stagnating the sport of F1). Ross and new management could bring back the NA engine whether its V-8 or V-10.....maybe V-12's...all with an ERS that produces more HP/FT LBS than a NA engine. Personally I'm for the V-10's or V-12's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    I do understand what Sylt is trying to say in the article but if that's Liberty Media's thinking and MO then we're in big trouble. They are completely mad if their reasoning is like what's quoted down below.

    This is basicly what it comes down to. These two quote: "Accordingly, it could be a huge risk for Ferrari to forego guaranteed prize money for the promise of greater sponsorship revenue if races are more exciting".

    "If you’re Ferrari, you have enormous sponsorship revenue that goes directly to you. That’s going to be impacted more positively by great races".

    First of all, Ferrari will not forego anything. If this is decided by Liberty it will be a forced move and nothing Ferrari can do about it, should Ferrari decide to stick around in F1. Second, what has greater sponsorship revenue to do with how exciting the races are? None. It's like comparing the price of apples to the prize of oranges. I swear there's something wrong in the heads of most people in the corporate world today.

    There's absolutely no guarantee that if the first 7 races are won by 7 different drivers like a few years ago that Ferrari will make more money from sponsorships. It's just empty talk. And by the way, of course they are going to go through with it. It's called socialism...
    Ross Brawn hopes to make F1 viable for small teams :

    http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...or-small-teams

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ross Brawn hopes to make F1 viable for small teams :

    http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...or-small-teams
    "We have a contract with the teams until 2020 so nothing is going to change substantially before then unless all teams agree," Brawn added".

    Yes, we all know that the agreement to compete is in place until 2020. The question is what will the next formula be? If it going to be 4 cylinders with even more stored electric power then I guess it's over. Especially if Ferrari loses $400 millions in the process of competing during 2017-2020. If it's going to be a jump back to normally aspirated V8's or even V10's/V12's then Brawn should work for making it a choice prior the 2021 season. I guess maybe then Ferrari can live with losing that guaranteed money. But if nothing happens then what's the point of Ferrari staying in a sport than will have a formula so far removed from the marque? We're still most likely have to go through 4 drivers in the process. Seb, Kimi and two unknown ones before the team really have a shot at the titles again.

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    From what I know, Ferrari related sales make up 58% of F1 total revenue. If Ferrari leave, F1 will go bankrupt in short order. If you take the total revenue and cut it to less than half, well it will be over... I can see the Liberty Media HQ from my office window, seriously just across the runway here, and this is all about floating an idea to see how Ferrari will respond as the Liberty guys could use this as profit for their new acquisition if Ferrari doesn't call their bluff. If Ferrari calls their bluff, they go under. Just remember that John Malone made his billions in Cable TV and is a shark. He wouldn't have done this deal if he didn't see a lot of money laying the table so he's looking around now figuring out how to take what money he can from the table.. Just like playing poker... He also has a way more capital to enhance the sport and grow it, some think Bernie was sharp, but he is no match for John Malone.

    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Okay....I'll bite....what the heck!

    Ferrari can respond in a number of ways:

    1.) Call their bluff.....If you take away our "privileged" money, we will leave the sport as a constructor and engine supplier!.......sure a LARGE fan base will stop watching and leave the sport which is $$$$$$$$$. The other teams will just buy other engines from MB or Renault and Honda....most likely MB. Ferrari generates in revenue over $500+ million in F1(profit-wise ?????)...so who is bluffing who. Politics sure, but you also have MB who supplies half the engines on the grid, RedBull with two teams on the grid and Mclaren who also gets "priveleged" money(not the scale of Ferrari) of its historical past....I believe Williams also gets a small amount of "privileged" money( but don't quote me on that).
    2.) Deal with it. Ferrari just has to "up its game" even more. The money gets spread to the lesser teams(Manor, Force India, Sauber) so they can have a fighting chance and survive. Liberty might also encourage new teams to come into the sport thereby having more cars on the grid.

    1) Question: What have the lessor teams done in the past 10 or 15yrs to the sport of F1? Drivers?......who?....
    2) Question: F1 is a dog eat dog environment, lesser teams come and go(Minardi, Jordan, Caterham, HRT, and the list goes on and on)....thats F1. So with that being
    said, maybe the top tier or top ten, can enter a 3rd car, as in MotoGP, to make up for the lost cars on the grid from lesser teams thereby promoting drivers
    up the grid.

    The current formula is, if I can use the term, "archaic" and maybe Liberty sees these archaic principles under the "Bernie-Era" as opportunities to change the sport of F1.
    Last edited by GrndLkNatv; 24th January 2017 at 20:11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    "We have a contract with the teams until 2020 so nothing is going to change substantially before then unless all teams agree," Brawn added".

    Yes, we all know that the agreement to compete is in place until 2020. The question is what will the next formula be? If it going to be 4 cylinders with even more stored electric power then I guess it's over. Especially if Ferrari loses $400 millions in the process of competing during 2017-2020. If it's going to be a jump back to normally aspirated V8's or even V10's/V12's then Brawn should work for making it a choice prior the 2021 season. I guess maybe then Ferrari can live with losing that guaranteed money. But if nothing happens then what's the point of Ferrari staying in a sport than will have a formula so far removed from the marque? We're still most likely have to go through 4 drivers in the process. Seb, Kimi and two unknown ones before the team really have a shot at the titles again.
    First off, I don't see F1 going to a 4 cylinder hybrid motor(they wanted to in 2014 but Ferrari argue'ed and said they were'nt having it..so everyone agreed to the current V-6 T-hybrid). There is talk out there (although I dont have any proof) that MB will bow out of F1 in 2020(some say sooner but let's just say for arguement sake that its 2020) to pursue electric. They will probably stay in F1 as an engine supplier only, not a constructor. Statistically, IF MB stays in F1 and dominates the rest of its stay, it will be the best team in F1 history from a statistical aspect(they had a 55yr hiatus due to a bad accident back in '55 at LeMans). I see Ross Brawn making the sport "alive" again and putting the fans first instead of the manufacturers deciding where F1 should go. Plus he might bring back on track testing ala Imola, Monza and at the Fiorano test track....where all teams get to test during the winter down-time. As far as Ferrari's "privileged" money....IMO, he might not do it in one lump sum....he just might do it gradually...which makes sense. Leaveit to Ross to figure out something for the betterment of the sport. I am sure as months and years go by, we will get more and more news as to his vision will be when the 2020 concorde agreement ends. Alot of things will happen that year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrndLkNatv View Post
    From what I know, Ferrari related sales make up 58% of F1 total revenue. If Ferrari leave, F1 will go bankrupt in short order. If you take the total revenue and cut it to less than half, well it will be over... I can see the Liberty Media HQ from my office window, seriously just across the runway here, and this is all about floating an idea to see how Ferrari will respond as the Liberty guys could use this as profit for their new acquisition if Ferrari doesn't call their bluff. If Ferrari calls their bluff, they go under. Just remember that John Malone made his billions in Cable TV and is a shark. He wouldn't have done this deal if he didn't see a lot of money laying the table so he's looking around now figuring out how to take what money he can from the table.. Just like playing poker...
    They are looking into other markets to open up more venues here in the states and other countries(20-25 GP's annually), they are a media giant from that aspect so probably more cable channels and the "live-stream" so you can watch it on your apple or android phone and pay either the monthly or yearly fee to watch all GP races....and with the help of Ross Brawn as the technical chief to steer F1 into the future......yeah, alot of money to be made. These guys see oppotunities that Bernie did'nt capitalize on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrndLkNatv View Post
    From what I know, Ferrari related sales make up 58% of F1 total revenue. If Ferrari leave, F1 will go bankrupt in short order. If you take the total revenue and cut it to less than half, well it will be over... I can see the Liberty Media HQ from my office window, seriously just across the runway here, and this is all about floating an idea to see how Ferrari will respond as the Liberty guys could use this as profit for their new acquisition if Ferrari doesn't call their bluff. If Ferrari calls their bluff, they go under. Just remember that John Malone made his billions in Cable TV and is a shark. He wouldn't have done this deal if he didn't see a lot of money laying the table so he's looking around now figuring out how to take what money he can from the table.. Just like playing poker... He also has a way more capital to enhance the sport and grow it, some think Bernie was sharp, but he is no match for John Malone.
    That's how I viewed it, nothing more than an invitation to "talk". The secondary reason is likely to steer the media narrative to their idea that Ferrari will actually benefit more from giving up $100M annually!
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    [B][I]" We're still most likely have to go through 4 drivers in the process. Seb, Kimi and two unknown ones before the team really have a shot at the titles again.
    Ross to Ferrari fans, read the above!! ... He basically is telling us Ferrari fans, find another sport to follow for the next 4 or 5 years, your team stinks! Why do folks think he's good for F1? I hope he has no connection with whoever supplies Ferrari with future gearbox equip. His influence on winning teams is to make sure you have a #2 driver willing to move over even if you have to pit him an extra time or two! Ferrari should donate some of that bonus $$ to Ross to stay home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Ross to Ferrari fans, read the above!! ... He basically is telling us Ferrari fans, find another sport to follow for the next 4 or 5 years, your team stinks! Why do folks think he's good for F1? I hope he has no connection with whoever supplies Ferrari with future gearbox equip. His influence on winning teams is to make sure you have a #2 driver willing to move over even if you have to pit him an extra time or two! Ferrari should donate some of that bonus $$ to Ross to stay home.
    I don't see why you are so anti Ross, what he says is not so far from the truth. Who denies that Ferrari really needs to do serious work, identify issues, look themselves on the mirror , if they want to really get back in winning form?
    Just because Ross calls it like it is, should Ferrari cave from the truth and keep Ross at home by paying him to stay there?

    This kind of thinking has damaged us the way that we're damaged.
    Face problems head on and do something about them is the only way if we want to be on top and not chasing after other teams.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Ross to Ferrari fans, read the above!! ... He basically is telling us Ferrari fans, find another sport to follow for the next 4 or 5 years, your team stinks! Why do folks think he's good for F1? I hope he has no connection with whoever supplies Ferrari with future gearbox equip. His influence on winning teams is to make sure you have a #2 driver willing to move over even if you have to pit him an extra time or two! Ferrari should donate some of that bonus $$ to Ross to stay home.
    I don't know how Ross Brawn is going to fare in his new role but the bolded part is most likely the truth. Which will affect the drivers Ferrari have know and in the next half a decade. If Piero Ferrari says he will be content with three wins in 2017 then basicly nothing has changed from last year. Of course very little will change even if the aero rules gets a revamp. Everyone knows it's the engine/power unit that dictates the outcome and maybe only Newey's aero at Red Bull can make a difference. I still don't think Merc have bottomed out with their engine. It will bottom out one year prior to a new engine formula gets introduced...if that ever happens (which I'm not so sure about).

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    Well if the tech. chief tells those under him it's going to take years to see the light of victories, I can't invision that as helpfull and encouraging. To quote Don Coreleone to Bonasera, " Ross use all your skills and powers to not let Ferrari look bad to their fans this year!" not 3 or 4 years from now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Ross to Ferrari fans, read the above!! ... He basically is telling us Ferrari fans, find another sport to follow for the next 4 or 5 years, your team stinks! Why do folks think he's good for F1? I hope he has no connection with whoever supplies Ferrari with future gearbox equip. His influence on winning teams is to make sure you have a #2 driver willing to move over even if you have to pit him an extra time or two! Ferrari should donate some of that bonus $$ to Ross to stay home.
    What on earth are you talking about?

    Ross didn't say that. 512 TR did. Ross' bit is in bold and the rest is 512 TR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Ross to Ferrari fans, read the above!! ... He basically is telling us Ferrari fans, find another sport to follow for the next 4 or 5 years, your team stinks! Why do folks think he's good for F1? I hope he has no connection with whoever supplies Ferrari with future gearbox equip. His influence on winning teams is to make sure you have a #2 driver willing to move over even if you have to pit him an extra time or two! Ferrari should donate some of that bonus $$ to Ross to stay home.
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