Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Luca Di Montezemolo not surprised by Mercedes dominance (pub, Feb. 01, 2017)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    438

    Luca Di Montezemolo not surprised by Mercedes dominance (pub, Feb. 01, 2017)

    No wonder Mercedes wanted to go to the V-6 T-hybrid after 2013:

    http://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/22...edes-dominance

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kitchener, CANADA
    Posts
    4,505
    no wonder their performance in 2014 was out of this world....when they were like 30-40 seconds or MORE ahead of the field.

    Ferrari and Renault have come a long way since then, but i still FEAR they will be slightly ahead of Ferrari this year...i hope i a WRONG though

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ferrari World
    Posts
    438
    This just goes to show that mercs cannot compete at the same level with Ferrari if fairness would come to play.
    Forza Ferrari


  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kitchener, CANADA
    Posts
    4,505
    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    This just goes to show that mercs cannot compete at the same level with Ferrari if fairness would come to play.
    exactly my thoughts on this too
    shame on them for having 5-6 years head start on the new engines....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kitchener, CANADA
    Posts
    4,505
    The funny thing is, Mercedes were NOT even in F1 in 2007 when they started working on this V6 turbo engine concept; they only came in F1 in 2010. So Mercedes invested in this engine heavily knowing that somehow down the road (some years later) F1 will somehow vear off from the V8 engines and into V6 turbos…they must have somehow had the inside “scoop” sort of thig and knew that if they will sway Ferrari into agreeing to switch to V6 turbos they will have a BIT time advantage and will win a FEW championships relatively easy….and low and behold THEY DID JUST THAT…

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ferrari World
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    The funny thing is, Mercedes were NOT even in F1 in 2007 when they started working on this V6 turbo engine concept; they only came in F1 in 2010. So Mercedes invested in this engine heavily knowing that somehow down the road (some years later) F1 will somehow vear off from the V8 engines and into V6 turbos…they must have somehow had the inside “scoop” sort of thig and knew that if they will sway Ferrari into agreeing to switch to V6 turbos they will have a BIT time advantage and will win a FEW championships relatively easy….and low and behold THEY DID JUST THAT…
    hhmmm........who better person to ask but Bernie, there must have been a secret deal between them.
    Forza Ferrari


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    438
    all valid arguements/debates.....You think Luca would have fought hard (even though at the time he did not know) to stay with the NA engine giving the power(veto) Ferrari has in F1. So I would say its 50% Bernie's fault IIIIIIIFFFFFF an inside deal was worked out and 50% Luca's fault for not fighting tooth and nail to forego the V-6 T-Hybrid formula.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    27,015
    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    hhmmm........who better person to ask but Bernie, there must have been a secret deal between them.
    Bernie who was against these engines and wanted Ferrari to veto them?
    Forza Ferrari

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,494
    I get what he's saying, and I have a massive amount of respect for Luca, but what is his explanation for 2010 through 2013? At least Mercedes has something to show for their efforts. 2010 and definitely 2012 should have been Alonso's third and fourth championships. There should have been a Constructor's during one of those two years too.

    FORZA FERRARI!
    Tous avec Jules #17

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I get what he's saying, and I have a massive amount of respect for Luca, but what is his explanation for 2010 through 2013? At least Mercedes has something to show for their efforts. 2010 and definitely 2012 should have been Alonso's third and fourth championships. There should have been a Constructor's during one of those two years too.
    Alonso was asked in F1 magazine if there was ever a race he could do over again, which one would it be? His reply, " Spa 2012." He was 3pts behind Vettel at the end of the year IF it was'nt for that massive pile-up caused by Romain Grosjean in turn one then Alonso had a strong chance of winning that year. But, your right.

    Grieg " Bernie who was against these engines and wanted Ferrari to veto them? "

    +1 Both were strongly against the V-6 T-Hybrid formula.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ferrari World
    Posts
    438
    Montezemolo admits that, in hindsight, it was a mistake for Ferrari - which wields a controversial veto over major decisions - to accept the beginning of the 'power unit' era. "I made a mistake, yes," he said.
    I guess his statement says it all. But the fact remains that mercs had a lot of time developing their engine beforehand, allowing them to be ahead among the rest.
    Forza Ferrari


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,494
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Alonso was asked in F1 magazine if there was ever a race he could do over again, which one would it be? His reply, " Spa 2012." He was 3pts behind Vettel at the end of the year IF it was'nt for that massive pile-up caused by Romain Grosjean in turn one then Alonso had a strong chance of winning that year. But, your right.

    Grieg " Bernie who was against these engines and wanted Ferrari to veto them? "

    +1 Both were strongly against the V-6 T-Hybrid formula.
    Yeah, I still haven't forgiven Grosjean for that. Nevertheless, I'm sure you've seen the cartoons of Alonso carrying a bandaged black horse on his back.

    FORZA FERRARI!
    Tous avec Jules #17

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Maputo
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    The funny thing is, Mercedes were NOT even in F1 in 2007 when they started working on this V6 turbo engine concept; they only came in F1 in 2010. So Mercedes invested in this engine heavily knowing that somehow down the road (some years later) F1 will somehow vear off from the V8 engines and into V6 turbos…they must have somehow had the inside “scoop” sort of thig and knew that if they will sway Ferrari into agreeing to switch to V6 turbos they will have a BIT time advantage and will win a FEW championships relatively easy….and low and behold THEY DID JUST THAT…
    You will realize that Mercedes were already in F1 in 2007. As engine supplier, with main customer being McClaren.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kitchener, CANADA
    Posts
    4,505
    Quote Originally Posted by kinkas View Post
    You will realize that Mercedes were already in F1 in 2007. As engine supplier, with main customer being McClaren.
    i know that, i MEANT as a works team as they are NOW

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northglenn
    Posts
    2,657
    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    I guess his statement says it all. But the fact remains that mercs had a lot of time developing their engine beforehand, allowing them to be ahead among the rest.
    I was chatting with Jock Clear last year at the USGP for about 20 minutes or so, just a great gent, and he said exactly that. They started out so far ahead that it would be very hard to catch up, plus loads of experience had walked out the door at Ferrari and just when they could catch up, the rules would change again. We both laughed as that change is what keeps us in our jobs, always tackling the new challenge, the idea is to get out ahead of it the earliest and fastest!
    President, Scuderia Ferrari Club of Denver - The Official Passion
    http://www.scuderiaferrari.club
    denver@scuderiaferrari.club

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    93
    No wonder.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ferrari World
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by GrndLkNatv View Post
    I was chatting with Jock Clear last year at the USGP for about 20 minutes or so, just a great gent, and he said exactly that. They started out so far ahead that it would be very hard to catch up, plus loads of experience had walked out the door at Ferrari and just when they could catch up, the rules would change again. We both laughed as that change is what keeps us in our jobs, always tackling the new challenge, the idea is to get out ahead of it the earliest and fastest!
    Yes, everything went right in favor of the mercs specially the changes in rules specifically the freeze in the in-season engine development. They made sure that no one can catch up with them. This is why I made my earlier statement that there might have been a secret deal. But then again, I might be wrong.
    Forza Ferrari


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stowmarket. U.K
    Posts
    16,061
    I said that Merc had few years head start on us the the rest of the field 2 years ago. But no one believed me. People blammed it on Ferrari being rubbish and development of the new engines.

    Hate to say it, but told you so.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    1,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I said that Merc had few years head start on us the the rest of the field 2 years ago. But no one believed me. People blammed it on Ferrari being rubbish and development of the new engines.

    Hate to say it, but told you so.
    I believed you Rob !
    Still pretty stunned the development gap was that large. I think Ferrari underestimated the the task, had a bit of a large ego about their own ability to develop a comprehensive PU, too.
    The hybrid part always seemed a done deal from the first news of big changes for 2014, with Renault wanting 4 cyl. & Mercedes wanting the V6.
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Christchurch,UK
    Posts
    2,743
    In other words it sounds as if there was a conspiracy to give Merc the upper hand in the future V6Turbo/hybrid development by allowing them to start preparing their power unit before anyone else. How is that fair? And it hasn't helped F1 to retain its fan-base either.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ferrari World
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    In other words it sounds as if there was a conspiracy to give Merc the upper hand in the future V6Turbo/hybrid development by allowing them to start preparing their power unit before anyone else. How is that fair? And it hasn't helped F1 to retain its fan-base either.
    exactly!
    Forza Ferrari


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    england
    Posts
    1,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I said that Merc had few years head start on us the the rest of the field 2 years ago. But no one believed me. People blammed it on Ferrari being rubbish and development of the new engines.

    Hate to say it, but told you so.
    I remember when pre season testing started in 2014 Mercedes went straight out of the box completing lap after lap with no engine issues, where as the other Engine Manufacturers struggled, especially Renault and Honda. Ferrari actually did a good job with reliability but still not a match for Mercedes but with 3 years less to develop the engine we could not really expect anymore from Ferrari. Bernie Eccleston knew Mercedes had this advantage and he was the one who gave Lewis the nod to go to Mercedes. Anyway all the above is history now and I hope with new people controlling the sport we can now move forward and hopefully we can get rid of Bernie and Charlie and bring new faces to the sport of F1.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    N. Delhi/Helsinki
    Posts
    3,668
    Quote Originally Posted by mirafiori View Post
    I remember when pre season testing started in 2014 Mercedes went straight out of the box completing lap after lap with no engine issues, where as the other Engine Manufacturers struggled, especially Renault and Honda.
    Actually I remember the W05 engine failed the first time car came out of garage in winter testing, but that was it.
    “I prefer to beat them on Sunday” -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

    "Giornata fantastica !!"- Andrea Stella, European GP 2012


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    england
    Posts
    1,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    Actually I remember the W05 engine failed the first time car came out of garage in winter testing, but that was it.
    I remember the first day of testing very well and I think you will find Mercedes had no issues with the engine, I think you will find they had a front wing failure. My point is the 3 year head start gave Mercedes the reliability and the performance advantage that seems almost impossible to catch up, especially with all the restrictions on the teams to develop and of course the pathetic maximum amount of token per season.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    438
    [QUOTESteps taken against Mercedes dominance(thejudge13) - February 9, 2017 by El Jefe Maximo

    2017 engines: a token improvement?

    The token development system was introduced together with the launch of the V6 1600 cc turbo engines.

    The target was to control engine development cost. Without going into all details of the token system , it was designed to make it more difficult to introduce eleborate updates, and thus into less opportunity for manufacturers to develop engines. This should convert into manufacturers spending less time and resources on engine development, lowering total engine cost. This would give teams to possibility to lower their budgets, so more teams to continue racing while still being competitive.

    Has it worked? Well, yours truly would like to reply that question with a two-fold “No”.

    “No” number 1
    Mercedes totally upset the system by investing a lot at the start of the V6 development cycle. This resulted in their first version of their engine which was clearly superior to the rest of the field. On top, the token measure had a nasty side effect: it was harder for other engine manufacturers to catch up. Mercedes’ lead simply was too big. This translated in their current worldchampionship hattrick.

    The token system has been a major reason for Mercedes’ dominance.

    Renault did the reverse, and invested less at the start of the v6 cycle. Their return on investment was a big and nasty fight with Red Bull. (One which was openly fought through the press. We can only imagine the marketing nightmare for Renault…)

    “No” number 2
    The idea was that manufacturers could survive with smaller budgets (since engine cost would be lower) and still be competitive. Obviously, the larger teams had no need to lower their budgets, and if money was saved on the cost of engines, it was happily spent on other areas of development. This resulted in complex multi-layered wings and other aero nicknacks, and gaps between teams remained the same.

    The token system did not bring the field closer together, had no cost-saving result, and has no entertainment value. It thus needed to be scrapped, and so it has for the coming season.

    2017 sees the end of the token system. Will it change the situation, end Mercedes’ dominance and make for better and/or closer racing?

    This might not be the case. Mercedes still has a lead. While technicians can continue to develop engines, upgrades can only be introduced a couple of times per year, since teams are only allowed 4 engines per season. Larger teams might want to just take the punishments for using a 5th or even a 6th engine, and this might prove too expensive for smaller team s.

    Yours truly estimates it is a step in the good direction, but it might not be enough to make more teams eligible for wins. And isn’t that what we want to see?
    ][/QUOTE]

    Another reason why the years 2014-2016 favored Mercedes-Benz......possibly 2017??? UNBELIEVABLE! MIND-BLOWING!!!!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    1,379
    Really, this move was just a token gesture!
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by abbottcostello View Post
    Really, this move was just a token gesture!
    yup.....it was in-effective for the other teams.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    1,379
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    yup.....it was in-effective for the other teams.
    Yeah, I was just making a play on words with the phrase, but I'm really glad the system is gone.
    At least now there is an opportunity to make changes for performance sake, without having to try a get them past the FIA as a reliability or safety related change. And who knows what Ferrari's engineers may come up with - I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Corpus Christi Tx
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by abbottcostello View Post
    Yeah, I was just making a play on words with the phrase, but I'm really glad the system is gone.
    At least now there is an opportunity to make changes for performance sake, without having to try a get them past the FIA as a reliability or safety related change. And who knows what Ferrari's engineers may come up with - I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
    IMO, it was a pointless system and the idiot/idiots from the FIA that approved it should have gotten replaced.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •