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Thread: 1st Winter Testing 27th Feb - 2nd March 2017, Barcelona

  1. #391
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    21:49
    Raikkonen is back out and instantly goes faster again with a lap of 1:21.198, putting him within two tenths of Hamilton.

    And here's the thing: that time was set on soft tyres.

    In fact, it was the fastest time we've seen so far on the soft compound - albeit on a three-lap run.

  2. #392
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    From BBC:

    Kimi Rakkonen's latest run on the soft-compound tyre is a thumping 1:21.198, just two tenths off Hamilton's best time, which was achieved on the quicker supersoft compound.

    Bear in mind also that Hamilton did not lap quicker than a 1:21.7 on the soft tyre.

    Hmmmm.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    From BBC:
    now they sound worried.
    Forza Ferrari


  4. #394
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    More new softs for kimi
    Interviewer: “The helmet has a special meaning for many drivers. How important is it to you?”
    Kimi: “It protects my head.”

  5. #395
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    Raikkonen is going for another quick one on softs.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    Yes, its their advanced suspension, but, the main purpose of this system is to stop the car from diving and rolling in to the corners, helping with aero balance and to some extent, grip. But, it does not explain getting on the throttle mid corner, and being on the throttle all the way. They must have a system like that to control the wheel slip. No matter what type of suspension you have, there is a point when enough power is applied, the tyer will loose grip, but with a traction controll system like torque vectoring, you dont need to worry so much about it. It also noticeable in slow corners, especially in chicane. FRIC suspension system does not make the car defy laws of physics. The weight transfer will cause one side of the car to lighter than the other no matter what type of suspension you have given you apply enough power.
    First and foremost, it does not help grip to "some extent"; it helps it to a greater extent as it keeps the car planted for greater aero and grip all working dependantly with one another going into the corner(dive), heading into the apex(yaw), and exiting the corner. I never said it defied the laws of physics but it helps dramatically in lap times. Also, the ECU is governed by the FIA as everyone has the same unit when it comes to "traction control". So there is no torque vectoring module as well. Your right in that the weight transfer in the car but Mercedes has perfected this weight transfer so much that they pull away from the pack early in the race.....along with their PU(which that too has been upgraded for more hp).
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 28th February 2017 at 14:31.

  7. #397
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    Bang! 1:20.960

  8. #398
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    Raikkonen and Ocon also using DRS on the back straight. Botas is not.

    - Edd Straw

  9. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyRizza View Post
    More new softs for kimi
    SF70-H: back to normal: P1 (softs) and best Vmax :)

  10. #400
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    He's 0.023s faster than the Mercedes

  11. #401
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    14:20 Kimi carrying great speed in Turn 9 without any problem - front and rear both giving the grip it seems.Edd Straw

    14:19 The Ferrari looks extremely poised on track - very well balanced and stable. Just to the eye it's a clear step from last year.Edd Straw

  12. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Hills View Post
    He's 0.023s faster than the Mercedes
    It's normal: Alfa Romeo sponsor on engine cover :)

  13. #403
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    So, how much are Mercs sandbanging you think ?

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    So, how much are Mercs sandbanging you think ?
    Yet to be seen but no more than us I am guessing, time will tell ...
    Last edited by Hills; 28th February 2017 at 14:30.

  15. #405
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    Current order and lap count:

    1 Raikkonen (63)
    2 Hamilton (66)
    3 Ocon (32)
    4 Magnussen (72)
    5 Verstappen (31)
    6 Kvyat (44)
    7 Palmer (20)
    8 Bottas (35)
    9 Stroll (12)
    10 Vandoorne (29)
    11 Giovinazzi (19)

  16. #406
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    Merc doing full 1 stop race sim on day 2!

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    First and foremost, it does not help grip to "some extent"; it helps it to a greater extent as it keeps the car planted for greater aero and grip all working dependantly with one another going into the corner(dive), heading into the apex(yaw), and exiting the corner. I never said it defied the laws of physics but it helps dramatically in lap times. Also, the ECU is governed by the FIA as everyone has the same unit when it comes to "traction control". So there is not torque vectoring module as well. Your right in that the weight transfer in the car but Mercedes has perfected this weight transfer so much that they pull away from the pack early in the race.....along with their PU(which that too has been upgraded for more hp).
    I agree with, dive, yaw, and rotation. That type of system does not need to go through the ecu. It can be a mechanical link, or a separate wired link that no one can see. I remember when Schumacher was driving, they had a break bias leaver, but I do not think it was bake bias just front to back, but also left to right. So, depending on the corner, you can change the brake bias to turn the car. Now, with the hybrid system, you dont need any of that.
    Also, they dont need to say its traction control, they can say its energy harvesting, you can program it to look like its not doing anything. If you go through the ecu route, they can program it in as a braking system, or engine mapping.

  18. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    So, how much are Mercs sandbanging you think ?
    They try to simulate the Ferrari sandbagging.

  19. #409
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    Ben Anderson: Verstappen trying to commit lots of entry speed into Turn 4, but the Red Bull is not compliant and he gets a kick of oversteer as he tries to blast out the other side.
    So cool to hear something like that about them

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  20. #410
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    I want to clarify this whole torque vector idea you are all talking about. It's is impossible to use the power of the hybrid system for torque vectoring. The MGU-K is attached to the crank of the engine which means it can not favor one wheel or the other. It's putting power into the gearbox. There's no hybrid components past the gearbox where it splits into two axles.

    That said we obviously have brake by wire in the rear now, so they could leverage independent wheel braking in the rear to simulate torque vectoring, but it would create an emmense amount of heat and brake wear not to mention waste energy as your adding drag to the driveline and throwing away energy.

    I don't personally think anyone is using brake vectoring but I'm not an F1 engineer.

  21. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I agree with, dive, yaw, and rotation. That type of system does not need to go through the ecu. It can be a mechanical link, or a separate wired link that no one can see. I remember when Schumacher was driving, they had a break bias leaver, but I do not think it was bake bias just front to back, but also left to right. So, depending on the corner, you can change the brake bias to turn the car. Now, with the hybrid system, you dont need any of that.
    Also, they dont need to say its traction control, they can say its energy harvesting, you can program it to look like its not doing anything. If you go through the ecu route, they can program it in as a braking system, or engine mapping.
    There is no "wired" or "mechanical link" with regards to your alleged system. Any other electronic (braking system/engine mapping/energy harvesting) SYSTEM is heavily regulated by the FIA, hence the regulated ECU.

  22. #412
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    No improvements for Raikkonen in sectors two and three, and he crosses the line 0.2s down on his best with a 1m21.1s.

  23. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosielia View Post
    I want to clarify this whole torque vector idea you are all talking about. It's is impossible to use the power of the hybrid system for torque vectoring. The MGU-K is attached to the crank of the engine which means it can not favor one wheel or the other. It's putting power into the gearbox. There's no hybrid components past the gearbox where it splits into two axles.

    That said we obviously have brake by wire in the rear now, so they could leverage independent wheel braking in the rear to simulate torque vectoring, but it would create an emmense amount of heat and brake wear not to mention waste energy as your adding drag to the driveline and throwing away energy.

    I don't personally think anyone is using brake vectoring but I'm not an F1 engineer.
    I agree. If the brakes are being used as a form of traction control, it would be used when diving into a corner to help turn the car but I think it's just a well balanced chassis. Although Mercs do complain about overheating brakes quite often.

  24. #414
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    Current order and lap count:

    1 Raikkonen (73)
    2 Hamilton (66)
    3 Ocon (36)
    4 Verstappen (41)
    5 Magnussen (89)
    6 Bottas (52)
    7 Kvyat (44)
    8 Palmer (20)
    9 Stroll (12)
    10 Vandoorne (29)
    11 Giovinazzi (24)

  25. #415
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    The FIA has moved to act on trick suspension systems, in a saga prompted by Ferrari requesting what was and wasn't legal late last year:
    FIA warns Formula 1 teams over trick suspension designs

  26. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hills View Post
    The FIA has moved to act on trick suspension systems, in a saga prompted by Ferrari requesting what was and wasn't legal late last year:
    FIA warns Formula 1 teams over trick suspension designs
    yup....and Ferrari has requested it(FRIC) be investigated 2X earlier this year when MB and RB, but especially MB, have been using it for the past 3 years. Its legal in that it is not electronic...all hydraulic. There is talk that Ferrari will again "complain" at Melbourne. IMHO, Ferrari have yet to perfect it, as the case with MB and RB, that Ferrari just wants the investigation to " see how it works correctly." So far both MB and RB are keeping it and going forward. They have found a loophole in the rules with regards to said system albeit from a Manor "spacer" rule. Hey, give both teams credit for taking advantage of the "extra space."

    I'm sure both teams have a plan B IF the FIA steps in and makes a ruling in Ferrari's favor.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 28th February 2017 at 15:11.

  27. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingHitokiri View Post
    So, how much are Mercs sandbanging you think ?
    Sandbagging, using softs and supersofts? Something they never did last year?
    #GillesPerSempre #KeepFightingMichael #JB17

  28. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuderia1967 View Post
    Sandbagging, using softs and supersofts? Something they never did last year?
    Very true ..

  29. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    yup....and Ferrari has requested it(FRIC) be investigated 2X earlier this year when MB and RB, but especially MB, have been using it for the past 3 years. Its legal in that it is not electronic...all hydraulic. There is talk that Ferrari will again "complain" at Melbourne. IMHO, Ferrari have yet to perfect it, as the case with MB and RB, that Ferrari just wants the investigation to " see how it works correctly." So far both MB and RB are keeping it and going forward. They have found a loophole in the rules with regards to said system albeit from a Manor "spacer" rule. Hey, give both teams credit for taking advantage of the "extra space."

    I'm sure both teams have a plan B IF the FIA steps in and makes a ruling in Ferrari's favor.
    I agree .. Here is what the FIA are asking at the moment:

    The FIA picked out five key characteristics or components that it will deem non-compliant:

    1) Any system that changes how the car responds to body accelerations.
    2) No direct coupling between the ride height function and the braking system or the steering system.
    3) Right height control via self-levelling.
    4) Direct coupling between the role and heave parts of the suspension.
    5) The storing of energy for delayed deployment or any system that would result in non-incidental asymmetry in the response to changes in load applied to the wheels.

    The FIA said it hoped the clarification made it clear what teams would need to do to prove their system was compliant.

  30. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hills View Post
    Very true ..
    you guys need to chill out, the pol position will be in the high 1 minute 18 :). No team is even trying

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