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Thread: 1st Winter Testing 27th Feb - 2nd March 2017, Barcelona

  1. #751
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    Hey guys, i just read this today.
    It says Mercedes mixing fuel with oil for qualifying boost.
    http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...alifying-boost

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    Hey guys, i just read this today.
    It says Mercedes mixing fuel with oil for qualifying boost.
    http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...alifying-boost
    I believe the fuel gets tested by the stewards after the race, all F1 cars must retain a certain amount of fuel after the race for testing.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I believe the fuel gets tested by the stewards after the race, all F1 cars must retain a certain amount of fuel after the race for testing.
    Maybe they don't need to do that for quali.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by jragona View Post
    Maybe they don't need to do that for quali.
    I think they have to provide 1 litre of fuel after quali ends.

  5. #755
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    They do it after it enters the engine, at the top end. They do it in the car. When it is moving. The oil can be checked and rechecked by the stewards, then when the car is moving, they mix it, so they get more fuel into the cylinder. So its a way of bypassing the 100l/h fuel flow rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    They do it after it enters the engine, at the top end. They do it in the car. When it is moving. The oil can be checked and rechecked by the stewards, then when the car is moving, they mix it, so they get more fuel into the cylinder. So its a way of bypassing the 100l/h fuel flow rate.
    If this is indeed true, then a question should be raised to the FIA.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    They do it after it enters the engine, at the top end. They do it in the car. When it is moving. The oil can be checked and rechecked by the stewards, then when the car is moving, they mix it, so they get more fuel into the cylinder. So its a way of bypassing the 100l/h fuel flow rate.
    Let me get this straight, so not only do they have the fuel in the fuel tank(which does'nt get refueled during a race), they also have a "depletion" of oil from the oil reservior during a GP race to get this so called "boost"??? And per your statement, the oil is checked and rechecked by the stewards SO WHAT IS CHECKED? the oil formula? or oil level? or both? If so, would'nt the level raise an "eyebrow" and then the stewards question why this excessive depletion of oil is happening?

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    But the oil is getting burned anyway because there is little oil onnthe cylinder walls, so, instead of burning oil, it will burn the fuel in the oil. But they dont do it all the time, only when they need a boost. Remember, magic button? Also, during qualifying they can really get away with it. And this was not brought up by me, it was in an article. I had the link there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    If this is indeed true, then a question should be raised to the FIA.
    ...i will refrain from saying how i believe the FIA are corrupt and alow this (if true.. wouldn't surprise me). i wish the sport would get a new FIA.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    But the oil is getting burned anyway because there is little oil onnthe cylinder walls, so, instead of burning oil, it will burn the fuel in the oil. But they dont do it all the time, only when they need a boost. Remember, magic button? Also, during qualifying they can really get away with it. And this was not brought up by me, it was in an article. I had the link there.
    I realize that oil from the cylinder wall gets burned in the combustion chamber, every combustion engine known to man does that and I read said link that you provided but if you have an idea or hypothetical and you base it on said article with having no back up to refute what I am getting to then just list the article, let us read it and if you have back-up to add to the article then so be it. An F1 car burns about 3 to 5ltrs of oil(V-6T-H) at said GP race as this is nothing knew in F1 depending on the engine formula. Now any more oil depletion would raise a red flag by the stewards and question it. HOWEVER, additives to the OIL(Shell, BP, Petronas, etc) are not governed by the FIA(the fuel is governed) and can make a combustion engine work "more efficiently."

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    Mercedes gets boost from new Petronas fuel: Feb 23, 2017

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...s-fuel-877309/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I realize that oil from the cylinder wall gets burned in the combustion chamber, every combustion engine known to man does that and I read said link that you provided but if you have an idea or hypothetical and you base it on said article with having no back up to refute what I am getting to then just list the article, let us read it and if you have back-up to add to the article then so be it. An F1 car burns about 3 to 5ltrs of oil(V-6T-H) at said GP race as this is nothing knew in F1 depending on the engine formula. Now any more oil depletion would raise a red flag by the stewards and question it. HOWEVER, additives to the OIL(Shell, BP, Petronas, etc) are not governed by the FIA(the fuel is governed) and can make a combustion engine work "more efficiently."
    Why so hostile? I was just sharing what I found. Also, I am a Automotive Engineer by trade, so, I can see how they mix fuel with oil in the engine, to get a boost from the oil to bypass the fuel flow regulations. Just sharing information and I get yelled at. WOW. If you want, go talk to FIA, not me. I LISTED THE ARTICLE ON A PREVIOUS POST! THERE IS A LINK! LOOK ABOVE ON THE PAGE PLEASE BEFORE ACCUSING ME PLEASE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I realize that oil from the cylinder wall gets burned in the combustion chamber, every combustion engine known to man does that and I read said link that you provided but if you have an idea or hypothetical and you base it on said article with having no back up to refute what I am getting to then just list the article, let us read it and if you have back-up to add to the article then so be it. An F1 car burns about 3 to 5ltrs of oil(V-6T-H) at said GP race as this is nothing knew in F1 depending on the engine formula. Now any more oil depletion would raise a red flag by the stewards and question it. HOWEVER, additives to the OIL(Shell, BP, Petronas, etc) are not governed by the FIA(the fuel is governed) and can make a combustion engine work "more efficiently."
    HERE!!! HAPPY??? PLEASE LOOK BEFORE YOU ACCUSE!!!

    Today, 15:36 #751 mardyrt mardyrt is offline
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    Hey guys, i just read this today.
    It says Mercedes mixing fuel with oil for qualifying boost.
    http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...alifying-boost

  14. #764
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    Come on guys, we are here to talk about our cars and share information.
    Why come an attack even before you read the previous posts and get the full story.
    I am sorry, but please, moderator, please ask people to be polite and not attack others blindly without basis. If it goes like that, I think people will loose interest. No one likes to be blamed and attacked for no reason.
    I posted that link so people will see, and I just wanted to share it with all of you.
    Please be polite, no one here is dumb.
    Also, I was explaining what was happening because some people might be interested to know how it can happen.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    Why so hostile? I was just sharing what I found. Also, I am a Automotive Engineer by trade, so, I can see how they mix fuel with oil in the engine, to get a boost from the oil to bypass the fuel flow regulations. Just sharing information and I get yelled at. WOW. If you want, go talk to FIA, not me. I LISTED THE ARTICLE ON A PREVIOUS POST! THERE IS A LINK! LOOK ABOVE ON THE PAGE PLEASE BEFORE ACCUSING ME PLEASE!
    How about in the oil ADDITIVE they(Shell, BP, Petronas) add a catalyst and upon "detonation" in the cylinder chamber this "catalyst" reacts with the fuel and creates a "boost" effect; due to oil being left on the cylinder walls plus the air/fuel mixture by the ECU governed by the FIA?

    Also, you stated in an earlier post about "torque-vectoring" being in F1 cars and substantiated that all F1 cars had this!!!!!! This was not true as the Moderator Rob said it was due to suspension setup and I backed up his statement about the "FRIC" suspension. While you may be an automotive engineer by trade, some of your "automotive engineering" IDEAS are to be questioned in this forum when it comes to F1 cars.

  16. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    HERE!!! HAPPY??? PLEASE LOOK BEFORE YOU ACCUSE!!!

    Today, 15:36 #751 mardyrt mardyrt is offline
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    Hey guys, i just read this today.
    It says Mercedes mixing fuel with oil for qualifying boost.
    http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...alifying-boost
    might want to cool down abit. No one is accusing anything.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  17. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    How about in the oil ADDITIVE they(Shell, BP, Petronas) add a catalyst and upon "detonation" in the cylinder chamber this "catalyst" reacts with the fuel and creates a "boost" effect; due to oil being left on the cylinder walls plus the air/fuel mixture by the ECU governed by the FIA?

    Also, you stated in an earlier post about "torque-vectoring" being in F1 cars and substantiated that all F1 cars had this!!!!!! This was not true as the Moderator Rob said it was due to suspension setup and I backed up his statement about the "FRIC" suspension. While you may be an automotive engineer by trade, some of your "automotive engineering" IDEAS are to be questioned in this forum when it comes to F1 cars.
    First of all, I DID NOT SAY ALL F1 cars had this torque vectoring, I said maybe Mercedes have it. Why you guys are attacking me? I was just giving ideas, be open, dont be dismissive. Yes, FRIC suspension system is one thing. The Red Bull does not behave the same way as the Mercedes in slow corners, even when red bull has some sort of FRIC system, (according to lot of journalists). Every car has a little bit of sliding effect on the front end when turn in to a corner, and the RedBull has it too. But, the Mercedes has so much less from on board and videos I have seen. This is why I say about torque vector. Its like the rear wheels help with steer, the car has a pivoting effect into the corners. I am not saying they do have 100%, I dont know for sure, I am not a working for Mercedes, but to me, it looks like they have some type of a system like that. I never said all cars have it, please, dont say things I never said.

  18. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    might want to cool down abit. No one is accusing anything.
    Hey Rob, I am not angry. I was just saying, they talk to me like I was writing the article, I was just sharing it.
    Why we cant discuss things without writing in condescending way. Thats all.

  19. #769
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    Ferrari engine performance 'amazing' – Haas Mar. 5, 2017

    http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1...22/story.shtml

    I think this was self-evident during testing from a reliabilty aspect.....now lets see how it does in Melbourne and from then on when they "turn-it-up" from a performance aspect.

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Mercedes gets boost from new Petronas fuel: Feb 23, 2017

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...s-fuel-877309/
    0.3 tenths from fuel ????

  21. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by subfire91 View Post
    0.3 tenths from fuel ????
    I believe the correct term is "half a Fernando".


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by killer; 6th March 2017 at 02:14.

  22. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari engine performance 'amazing' – Haas Mar. 5, 2017

    http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1...22/story.shtml

    I think this was self-evident during testing from a reliabilty aspect.....now lets see how it does in Melbourne and from then on when they "turn-it-up" from a performance aspect.
    Relatedly--is there definitive news about the gearbox? That thing more than did its share to do us in last year.


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    Sebastian Vettel completes filming day, today in Barcelona https://t.co/aUi4hspCze ()

    #F1 #Seb5 https://t.co/i62GBPCZH7
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  24. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Ferrari engine performance 'amazing' – Haas Mar. 5, 2017

    http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1...22/story.shtml

    I think this was self-evident during testing from a reliabilty aspect.....now lets see how it does in Melbourne and from then on when they "turn-it-up" from a performance aspect.
    Base on the report if Haas used one engine for 5 races and based on the mileage covered by Ferrari it means the engine did just over 7 race distance. This good reliability for a new engine (assuming we also used one engine).

  25. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    I believe the correct term is "half a Fernando". : lou


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    ha, ha.....the infamous 6 tenths.....lOL

  26. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    Sebastian Vettel completes filming day, today in Barcelona https://t.co/aUi4hspCze ()

    #F1 #Seb5 https://t.co/i62GBPCZH7
    Is that all our testing days done and dusted now?

    Anyone think we use to testing days to try set up changes which require time as these days are governed by distance(100km), not time.

    Therefore in the testing we can just get on with hetting as much running as possible without lenghty delays
    Last edited by mizf1; 6th March 2017 at 01:50.

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  28. #778
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    http://www.autosport.com/news/report...sh-in-test-two

    There have already been suggestions that the developments - allied to it pushing more on engine maps - could deliver a further two-seconds of performance, with times in the 1m18s region tipped.
    “I have nothing to lose. I can only attack and press on”

    Michael Schumacher after Bahrain GP 2005

  29. #779
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    WOW, that is scary, 2 seconds faster just from engine maps??? ....looks like Merc's are doing just about anything to stay ahead of us....let's hope we TOO have something in our back pocket....

  30. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    They do it after it enters the engine, at the top end. They do it in the car. When it is moving. The oil can be checked and rechecked by the stewards, then when the car is moving, they mix it, so they get more fuel into the cylinder. So its a way of bypassing the 100l/h fuel flow rate.
    I wonder if this tactic is related to the pretty significant amount of "oil smoke" we see coming out of the Mercs during qualy and the race at the start line... That common "puff of blue smoke" is there at the start of every race. Maybe this has some validity to it.

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