Australian GP 2017 - Race thread - Ferrari wins

[kshitijmalkan]

they cannot under this V-6T-Hybrid formula....they do not have the resources (business model), exhorbatant amout of money nor the the R&D for these highly lucrative and complex PU.

In agree, it's a company in turmoil at the moment, but as with their road cars, they can out source to Ricardo


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[Stormy]

This McLaren does not want Honda on their premises in case they trade secrets are leaked.

That's why contract agreements exist. Honda can sue them in such a scenario. Why didn't Mercedes have such a problem?

maybe they won't be in F1 long term once the formula changes in 2020 and "bug out" knowing they got the tech needed for their road-cars.

I won't be buying a Honda hybrid after this venture they have in F1 that's for sure Nevertheless, i think hybrid is going to stay after 2020, what else it could be? Fully electric PU? Doubt it, this could destroy F1. That's why we we have Formula E.

[kshitijmalkan]

That's why contract agreements exist. Honda can sue them in such a scenario. Why didn't Mercedes have such a problem?



I won't be buying a Honda hybrid after this venture they have in F1 that's for sure Nevertheless, i think hybrid is going to stay after 2020, what else it could be? Fully electric PU? Doubt it, this could destroy F1. That's why we we have Formula E.

Contracts definitely exists! But intellectual things and philosophical ideologies can carry forward. Think Rory, JA et all.

As for ERS! Definitely has a place in F1 beyond 2020, but can be handled much better


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[Stormy]

Contracts definitely exists! But intellectual things and philosophical ideologies can carry forward. Think Rory, JA et all.

As for ERS! Definitely has a place in F1 beyond 2020, but can be handled much better

True, however i still think they need to take that risk if they want to be successful in F1. They won't be the first to partner up like that. Industrial leaks and espionage are a threat in every business.

[jgonzalesm6]

That's why contract agreements exist. Honda can sue them in such a scenario. Why didn't Mercedes have such a problem?



I won't be buying a Honda hybrid after this venture they have in F1 that's for sure Nevertheless, i think hybrid is going to stay after 2020, what else it could be? Fully electric PU? Doubt it, this could destroy F1. That's why we we have Formula E.

Stormy, thats the 64,000 dollar question most if not all want to know. Definitely NOT electric as you have stated cuz of FE. Does F1 go 1.) for a road research test bed OR 2.) stay motorsport hence MAYBE just maybe go back to NA/ATMO/ICE formula.

[kshitijmalkan]

Stormy, thats the 64,000 dollar question most if not all want to know. Definitely NOT electric as you have stated cuz of FE. Does F1 go 1.) for a road research test bed OR 2.) stay motorsport hence MAYBE just maybe go back to NA/ATMO/ICE formula.

There definitely should be more of a free roam approach adopted in f1 rather than having all sorts of restrictions. In the case of the ICE, give an annual allocation of fuel to teams and thus not race limiting manufacturers. Let them work out what's best! Let them manufacture engines that can regenerate as much energy as possible for any length of time and not just being used in DRS zones, if you know what I mean.


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[nani_s23]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36047.html

[Stormy]

Stormy, thats the 64,000 dollar question most if not all want to know. Definitely NOT electric as you have stated cuz of FE. Does F1 go 1.) for a road research test bed OR 2.) stay motorsport hence MAYBE just maybe go back to NA/ATMO/ICE formula.

Probably option 1. Besides being a marketing platform, F1 is also a field of testing new technology. No car manufacturer will be keen on spending so much money if they don't have technological benefits out of it. So, just as kshitijmalkan said, we will most probably have an even more complex and powerful hybrid PUs beyond 2020. So, FIA or FOM is not the one to blame for these engine regulations. The factory teams themselves (including Ferrari) wants to develop new hybrid technology. So, ICE is history.

[Stormy]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36047.html

Lauda doesn't explain anything in this article. He just ask questions as why Kimi struggled.

[jgonzalesm6]

There definitely should be more of a free roam approach adopted in f1 rather than having all sorts of restrictions. In the case of the ICE, give an annual allocation of fuel to teams and thus not race limiting manufacturers. Let them work out what's best! Let them manufacture engines that can regenerate as much energy as possible for any length of time and not just being used in DRS zones, if you know what I mean.


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ooooooooookay, what about engine spending caps/costs. One of the basis of this new formula we are currently in was to reduce costs!!!!!!! this is soooooo not the case. Only Manufacturers are the only ones that can afford these PU's and there is no sign of others joining.....FE....sure!!!! BMW is flocking over there as well as AUDI and possibly MB. ALL THIS ENGINE FORMULA IS DUE TO GOVERNMENTS IN THE EUROPEAN SECTOR wanting to cut down on emissions drastically...hence why FE looks viable from a long-term perspective. We stateside or here in the U.S. still have motorsports that are the complete opposite....all highly NOT "earth-friendly" and totally useless from a planet perspective i.e. drag racing(pro-stock, funny car, dragster, bikes, turbine-jet), motorcross, IMSA, Petite LeMans, MONSTER TRUCKS, speedboat racing(different classes), tractor-pulls, RENO Nevada Air Racing....because they all ENTERTAIN us and they all have one thing in common....they are all LOUD!!!

forgot to mention NASCAR, INDYCAR not to mention the smaller dirt track car series.

[Stormy]

ooooooooookay, what about engine spending caps/costs. One of the basis of this new formula we are currently in was to reduce costs!!!!!!! this is soooooo not the case. Only Manufacturers are the only ones that can afford these PU's and there is no sign of others joining.....FE....sure!!!! BMW is flocking over there as well as AUDI and possibly MB. ALL THIS ENGINE FORMULA IS DUE TO GOVERNMENTS IN THE EUROPEAN SECTOR wanting to cut down on emissions drastically...hence why FE looks viable from a long-term perspective. We stateside or here in the U.S. still have motorsports that are the complete opposite....all highly NOT "earth-friendly" and totally useless from a planet perspective i.e. drag racing(pro-stock, funny car, dragster, bikes, turbine-jet), motorcross, IMSA, Petite LeMans, MONSTER TRUCKS, speedboat racing(different classes), tractor-pulls, RENO Nevada Air Racing....because they all ENTERTAIN us and they all have one thing in common....they are all LOUD!!!

forgot to mention NASCAR, INDYCAR not to mention the smaller dirt track car series.

Teams in these motorsport series you mentioned are not spending almost billion of dollars per season.

[jgonzalesm6]

Teams in these motorsport series you mentioned are not spending almost billion of dollars per season.

hence my point, does F1 need to spend "billions" and keep on spending more to where Manufacturers dictate F1 and come and go as they please?


also, the teams in the back are not going to be able to afford these PU's....one by one they drop out....so F1 will be just 3 big manufacturer teams?????

[kshitijmalkan]

Teams in these motorsport series you mentioned are not spending almost billion of dollars per season.

American race series have certainly bough road relevant technology in the past. I can certainly not comment on the present or future due to my lack of knowledge. Although they are supported by manufacturers the teams are more than often independents who are not too bothered about road relevance.

This is also applicable to Formula 1, with the likes of Sauber and Williams, who exist for just for racing. Due to this heir operational budgets are just not as high as road car manufactures who utilise their budgets as investments. As any investments a proportional return is necessary, which in this case is transfer of technology and showcasing future.

A F1 on a budget will become like NASCAR or other spec racing series, as the return on investments will be marginalised making the series into nothing but a advertising exercise. I have used advertising and showcasing in two different context here.

So Car manufacturers will always look for a reasonably high budget/high return prospect where they can showcase the future/develop the means/compete with their direct competitors while the prize money and sales negate their investments.

Finally, a budget is always going to be hard to implement as costs can always be hidden up by road car division and sub contracting, etc. It will be extremely hard to police. After all these are very large organisations with extremely complex financial structures with extremely intelligent people in their law and finance departments.


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[kshitijmalkan]

hence my point, does F1 need to spend "billions" and keep on spending more to where Manufacturers dictate F1 and come and go as they please?


also, the teams in the back are not going to be able to afford these PU's....one by one they drop out....so F1 will be just 3 big manufacturer teams?????

You do make a fair point! F1 is lost trying to be a showcase for the world and a racing series.

Maybe the way around it is no road car manufacturer or engine manufacturer should be directly involved or vis-versa Or then bring in a two tiered system. Any of which will result INA demise of the sport, not to say that we arnt in a demise already.

Complicated question and issues for people way wiser than me, that's why RB is now working for Liberty... let's see how he takes it forward.


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[hakanabi]

According to Mark Webber, Alonso might quit before the end of the season. I guess he might have some sort of conract clause.

[Greig]

According to Mark Webber, Alonso might quit before the end of the season. I guess he might have some sort of conract clause.

Wouldn't blame him. If it did happen wonder if we could pay Kimi to retire and take Alonso

[jgonzalesm6]

According to Mark Webber, Alonso might quit before the end of the season. I guess he might have some sort of conract clause.

Where would he go????? Retire????

[kshitijmalkan]

Where would he go????? Retire????

He has no option but to really just continue if he wants to be elsewhere in 2018. Else plenty of young cheaper talent out there!


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[jgonzalesm6]

He has no option but to really just continue if he wants to be elsewhere in 2018. Else plenty of young cheaper talent out there!


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I agree as frustrating as it may seem to him.....at this point, just do the "song-and-dance" PR and collect the $40 million, unless there is some performance clause per HONDA where he can exit and still collect his money.

[kshitijmalkan]

I agree as frustrating as it may seem to him.....at this point, just do the "song-and-dance" PR and collect the $40 million, unless there is some performance clause per HONDA where he can exit and still collect his money.

After Round 1 I'd say McLaren and Alonso both would have had some tight negotiations and a performance clause would have more than likely been inserted. If he has an option for 2018, why not just collect the 40mols walk away and get else where! I would say Mercedes will give him a asub optimal contract with a high possibility of winning (if that is what he is after). I don't see why he wouldn't go for it! But again stranger things happen in F1 in a daily basis.


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[jgonzalesm6]

That's why making a new facility in England with its own schedule can help.

by the way Stormy, Honda has an F1 facility in Milton Keynes (forgot to mention this)

[jgonzalesm6]

After Round 1 I'd say McLaren and Alonso both would have had some tight negotiations and a performance clause would have more than likely been inserted. If he has an option for 2018, why not just collect the 40mols walk away and get else where! I would say Mercedes will give him a asub optimal contract with a high possibility of winning (if that is what he is after). I don't see why he wouldn't go for it! But again stranger things happen in F1 in a daily basis.


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Mercedes or Ferrari would pay what he is currently getting...possibly more. Might take Bottas spot or possibly Kimi's (38yrs old and a second kid on the way....just sayin folks) but your right....stranger things have happened. Alonso just has had bad "karma" where-ever he goes....he is filthy rich though.

[kshitijmalkan]

by the way Stormy, Honda has an F1 facility in Milton Keynes (forgot to mention this)

If that's the case! Them two deserve to be In a hole as there's no one else to blame. It's a management issue that needs resolved. And neither of them seem too interested If performance and stance is to go by.


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[Lesky]

Alonso:

“I’m driving at my best. I feel I am the best driver out there, I just need an engine that can run as quick as the others on the straight.”

“The team are all ready to win except Honda.”

http://www.planetf1.com/news/alonso-...-except-honda/


You got to love how Alonso always manage to find ways to talk himself up regardless of the topic

Hearing Fernando call sundays race "the best race of his life" was just hilarious...he is becoming delusional in his misery. He needs to out of McLaren before he loses his sanity completely!

[Greig]

Alonso:


http://www.planetf1.com/news/alonso-...-except-honda/


You got to love how Alonso always manage to find ways to talk himself up regardless of the topic

Yeah he should say he is not as good as others when he is looking for a new drive? LOL

Ferrari win and you appear to talk about Alonso? figures

[Ed Harley]

Where would he go????? Retire????

Well, it was suggested above that he should replace Kimi.

[Lesky]

Yeah he should say he is not as good as others when he is looking for a new drive? LOL

Ferrari win and you appear to talk about Alonso? figures

Yeah I was suprised pretty much all the talk the last 2 pages was about Alonso when I checked in, so figured I´d stay on topic, afraid of making you angry and avoiding your snide remarks, but I guess I failed big time

[Lesky]

Well, it was suggested above that he should replace Kimi.

I dont get why Ferrari would take Alonso back 3 years older when they were trying all they could to get rid of him earlier...I dont think Vettel would approve Alonso joining either if Vettel is staying of course. If Ferrari have no drivers at all, then Alonso is the best option certainly.

[Ed Harley]

I dont get why Ferrari would take Alonso back 3 years older when they were trying all they could to get rid of him earlier...I dont think Vettel would approve Alonso joining either if Vettel is staying of course. If Ferrari have no drivers at all, then Alonso is the best option certainly.

Looks like he is still very, very much loved here.

[kshitijmalkan]

Looks like he is still very, very much loved here.

Please No!!!!! Vet and Kimi are good drivers. No more Alonso.


As for the previous few pages, I have to apologise it wasn't really race related material. It was more of state of affairs in F1, general chit chat.


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