Australian GP 2017 - Race thread - Ferrari wins

**Tifoso** · 27th March 2017, 19:17

Originally Posted by Lesky

Alonso:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/alonso-...-except-honda/

You got to love how Alonso always manage to find ways to talk himself up regardless of the topic

Hearing Fernando call sundays race "the best race of his life" was just hilarious...he is becoming delusional in his misery. He needs to out of McLaren before he loses his sanity completely!

His thinly veiled slamming of McLaren was supremely satisfying.

**Tifoso** · 27th March 2017, 19:20

Originally Posted by kshitijmalkan

Please No!!!!! Vet is a great and Kimi is a good driver. No more Alonso.

As for the previous few pages, I have to apologise it wasn't really race related material. It was more of state of affairs in F1, general chit chat.

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Fixed for you.

**kshitijmalkan** · 27th March 2017, 19:23

Originally Posted by Tifoso

Fixed for you.

Cheers Tifoso!

Typed that one in middle of a hectic and short flight transfer! Running from one aircraft to another.

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**Tifoso** · 27th March 2017, 19:37

Originally Posted by kshitijmalkan

Cheers Tifoso!

Typed that one in middle of a hectic and short flight transfer! Running from one aircraft to another.

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No problem, mate.

(and please call me Lou

)

**DIEK** · 27th March 2017, 19:47

Congratulations on your victory guys!

I leave this here, have a little fun...

**Silent Bob** · 27th March 2017, 19:50

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Where would he go????? Retire????

He would take over Botta's spot at Mercedes.... just in time to be with the new second best team.

**Tifoso** · 27th March 2017, 19:50

Woooooooooooohaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, DIEK!

**hakanabi** · 27th March 2017, 19:54

Originally Posted by Greig

Wouldn't blame him. If it did happen wonder if we could pay Kimi to retire and take Alonso

Lol, that would be priceless Greig

**SilverSpeed** · 27th March 2017, 19:59

**Silent Bob** · 27th March 2017, 19:59

All the pre-season technical articles have praised and drooled over how detailed and complex the Mercedes was in the front wing, bargeboard area. My opinion is that they out-detailed themselves. They've made the car so intricate in how it deals with vortices and air flow under the front of that car and through the sides that it costs them dearly when they are behind. Ferrari has a more simple front wing and front bargeboard area.... maybe this is why they aren't bothered so much by turbulent air from cars in front.

**Tifoso** · 27th March 2017, 20:24

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

All the pre-season technical articles have praised and drooled over how detailed and complex the Mercedes was in the front wing, bargeboard area. My opinion is that they out-detailed themselves. They've made the car so intricate in how it deals with vortices and air flow under the front of that car and through the sides that it costs them dearly when they are behind. Ferrari has a more simple front wing and front bargeboard area.... maybe this is why they aren't bothered so much by turbulent air from cars in front.

Or maybe it's just a case of Ferrari raising their game, rather than Mercedes underperforming.

**hakanabi** · 27th March 2017, 20:25

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Where would he go????? Retire????

Take a gardening leave and do what Ross Brawn did. He can practice on catching the fastest fish in ocean/sea :)

**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 20:46

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

All the pre-season technical articles have praised and drooled over how detailed and complex the Mercedes was in the front wing, bargeboard area. My opinion is that they out-detailed themselves. They've made the car so intricate in how it deals with vortices and air flow under the front of that car and through the sides that it costs them dearly when they are behind. Ferrari has a more simple front wing and front bargeboard area.... maybe this is why they aren't bothered so much by turbulent air from cars in front.

I believe all cars are going to have "turbulent-sickness" when following the front lead car. If they get within 1 sec or less they lose front downforce. Vettel kept his distance but did'nt get too close as I suspect he might have been feeling the same thing.

**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 20:48

Motor racing: F1 opener puts overtaking in the spotlight

Formula One entered a bold new era in Sunday's Australian season-opener with bigger tyres, faster cars and a winning Ferrari but the lack of overtaking is causing concern.

"What overtaking?," said Brazilian veteran Felipe Massa when the Williams driver was asked how difficult it had been to get past rivals.

Melbourne's Albert Park has never ranked high on the list of circuits with the most overtaking manoeuvres but fans saw hardly any after the opening lap.

Force India's Sergio Perez took both Toro Rossos while team mate Esteban Ocon was in a three-car battle that saw him and Renault's Nico Hulkenberg sweep past Fernando Alonso's McLaren.

But they were rare highlights of a race without crashes or a safety car.

"It was hard to follow and drive close behind others," complained Red Bull's Max Verstappen, who has built up a reputation as one of the sport's most exciting overtakers.

The problem came as no surprise to the likes of triple champion Lewis Hamilton, who had flagged up in testing that the new aerodynamic regulations had a downside and could lead to processional racing.

The cars are creating far more downforce, taking some corners flat out and throwing out more turbulent air that makes it harder for followers to get close.

TURBULENT AIR

"Even in the years before it’s been difficult to follow once you get within one and a half, or one second, just because of the turbulent air which messes up the aerodynamics of the car and that way we don’t have that much grip," explained Mercedes's Valtteri Bottas.

"Now, as more of the grip from the car is relying on the aero, it’s a bigger effect.

"And the cars are wider so I think there’s more turbulent air so now it’s more like two seconds or even two and a half because you actually feel quite a big effect from the car in front and that way in the corners it’s more difficult to follow."

The next race is on April 9 in Shanghai, a circuit that last year saw more overtaking than any other with 128 passes. Hamilton alone made 18 of them -- more than the entire 20 driver grid produced in Melbourne.

If there are far fewer cars overtaking there, then Formula One has a problem.

"It’s always generally been tough to follow... I hope that doesn’t mean for the rest of the year that it’s more of a train," Hamilton said on Sunday.

"I don’t know if it was exciting for you guys to watch, but for me personally I want to be closer up with the cars and (doing) more close wheel-to-wheel battling.

"It’s really through strategy and pitstops that we are racing right now."

source:http://in.reuters.com/article/motor-...6Y29L?rpc=401&

**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 20:55

Overtaking "almost impossible" during Australian GP

Renault's Nico Hulkenberg described overtaking as "almost impossible" in the Australian Grand Prix, as the first race with Formula 1's new cars left several drivers concerned.

The 2017 cars are faster and wider than their predecessors, with more aerodynamic performance and more grip from bigger Pirelli tyres.

Hulkenberg was quicker than Force India's Esteban Ocon in the closing stages of the race but said he could do nothing to get past.

"I was hoping he would have a little bit of a problem on the soft and I was obviously on the ultrasoft," said Hulkenberg. "But quickly I understood that it wasn't going to happen.

"And these cars, the dirty air is huge, so overtaking – almost impossible. I probably could have gone more than a second quicker, but it's just not in there."

Hulkenberg and Ocon were involved in a spectacular three-wide moment on the run into Turn 1 during a battle with Fernando Alonso's McLaren-Honda.

However, Ocon said it was only made possible by an unexpected error from Alonso.

"Me and Nico were a lot faster than Fernando, but we couldn't get close so that was very tough," he said. "He did a small mistake out of Turn 12 and I managed to get close and get my shot."

Hulkenberg said that was the highlight of his race, adding: "It was bloody fast there, it was like flying because these cars give quite big tows.

"I had a double tow, DRS, and full-power mode on – it was like 'ahhh!'."

Perez joins list of critics

Sergio Perez passed Daniil Kvyat on the first lap and Carlos Sainz round the outside at Turn 3 when the Toro Rosso was on an out-lap.

The Mexican said you could follow cars closely but drivers would need a huge pace advantage to overtake in normal conditions.

"It's harder to overtake because you have shorter brake distances, shorter grip-limited zones, less degradation," he said. "If before 1.5 seconds was enough, probably now you need two seconds."

Drivers at the front joining the midfield runners in voicing their concerns.

Lewis Hamilton said the overtaking problem is "probably worse now than it's ever been" and fears it will stay the same for the season.

Red Bull driver Max Verstappen caught Kimi Raikkonen over the final third of the grand prix but started to struggle as soon as he got "within two seconds" of the Ferrari.

Raikkonen, Horner urge patience

Raikkonen called for patience and perspective, saying it was "never going to be easy" to overtake in F1.

"It's only one race and this circuit is far from let's say a normal circuit," he said. "Some circuits will be more easy, some more harder in a year.

"We have to see how it goes in the next races."

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner agreed, adding: "There's never been a lot of overtaking here. Let's wait for China and Bahrain, which are two of the more easier circuits to overtake at, before drawing any judgement."

source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/o...gp-887102/?s=1

**Silent Bob** · 27th March 2017, 21:25

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

I believe all cars are going to have "turbulent-sickness" when following the front lead car. If they get within 1 sec or less they lose front downforce. Vettel kept his distance but did'nt get too close as I suspect he might have been feeling the same thing.

It's been like that for awhile, but looking at Hamilton who couldn't even get close to Max with fresh tires, compared to Vettel who could at least run within DRS range for some time, I'm just saying that maybe there is a reason why Ferrari's front wings are always a little more simple.

**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 21:34

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

It's been like that for awhile, but looking at Hamilton who couldn't even get close to Max with fresh tires, compared to Vettel who could at least run within DRS range for some time, I'm just saying that maybe there is a reason why Ferrari's front wings are always a little more simple.

lets hope so.....we shall see in the upcoming GP's.

**killer** · 27th March 2017, 21:34

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

It's been like that for awhile, but looking at Hamilton who couldn't even get close to Max with fresh tires, compared to Vettel who could at least run within DRS range for some time, I'm just saying that maybe there is a reason why Ferrari's front wings are always a little more simple.

Seb ran under a second behind Lewis for a fair number of laps and how things played out provides good evidence he backed off because he was going for the overcut and had to manage the tyres a bit.

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**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 21:39

Originally Posted by killer

Seb ran under a second behind Lewis for a fair number of laps and how things played out provides good evidence he backed off because he was going for the overcut and had to manage the tyres a bit.

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yup, both Lewis and Seb were on UltraSofts(purple banded)....at the most, at least by last year standards, those tyres were good for maybe 5 laps. Lewis did'nt pit till lap 17 and Seb pitted on like on lap 22 I believe. These tyres, in all categories, have a harder compound and are wider.

**Silent Bob** · 27th March 2017, 21:44

Originally Posted by killer

Seb ran under a second behind Lewis for a fair number of laps and how things played out provides good evidence he backed off because he was going for the overcut and had to manage the tyres a bit.

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Ya. Vettel was able to run a lot closer to Hamilton than Hamilton was able to with Max... and still had life left in his tires for 6 more decent laps. Just saying that, despite all the fawning over Mercedes intricate detail on their bargeboards and floor, maybe Ferrari's design is better.

**Tony** · 27th March 2017, 21:46

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

yup, both Lewis and Seb were on UltraSofts(purple banded)....at the most, at least by last year standards, those tyres were good for maybe 5 laps. Lewis did'nt pit till lap 17 and Seb pitted on like on lap 22 I believe. These tyres, in all categories, have a harder compound and are wider.

It's kind of strange cause i read an article on motorsportf1 that quoted SV as saying he was struggling to keep up with LH and was hanging on... then LH pitted... I'm assuming it got better after that, the quote stopped there but that highlights my concern... if Ferrari can't qualify first and second they may get stuck behind the Merc...

**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 22:05

Originally Posted by Tony

It's kind of strange cause i read an article on motorsportf1 that quoted SV as saying he was struggling to keep up with LH and was hanging on... then LH pitted... I'm assuming it got better after that, the quote stopped there but that highlights my concern... if Ferrari can't qualify first and second they may get stuck behind the Merc...

Seb did say to Webber on the podium during the celebration that he had a not so good start and almost spun the tyres but managed to keep Bottas behind; so had Vettel jumped on his start like he normally does, maybe the outcome might have been different in the beginning.

**Stormy** · 27th March 2017, 22:18

I can see some people saying Ferrari has the fastest car. However, i'm still not 100% confident because of our qualifying performance. Nevertheless, it looks very promising. That 8 second gap sure looked nice.

**jgonzalesm6** · 27th March 2017, 22:31

Originally Posted by Stormy

I can see some people saying Ferrari has the fastest car. However, i'm still not 100% confident because of our qualifying performance. Nevertheless, it looks very promising. That 8 second gap sure looked nice.

I'm gonna say they are equal and so sensitive to aero that neither one is gonna be able to get close enough for the overtake. Lewis said on team radio while on fresh tyres and behind Max, who was on old tyres, " there is no way I can pass this guy." then team radio said, "okay lewis, we need you to pressure Max" and Lewis response was, " how do you expect me to do that" meaning he could not get close enough.

**FreciaRosso** · 27th March 2017, 22:37

Hamilton joking around with Vettle.

**Brembo** · 27th March 2017, 22:52

Originally Posted by bonzo

Do we expect McLaren to dominate in 2020?

Strong 3rd place finishes and at least 1 well liked and strong driver will get the shot 2020. Who knows, maybe Haas! There in with the big guys $$$.

**killer** · 27th March 2017, 23:03

Originally Posted by Tony

It's kind of strange cause i read an article on motorsportf1 that quoted SV as saying he was struggling to keep up with LH and was hanging on... then LH pitted... I'm assuming it got better after that, the quote stopped there but that highlights my concern... if Ferrari can't qualify first and second they may get stuck behind the Merc...

Didn't look that way, TBH. That's just from visuals though. At any rate, it was either Lewis couldn't pull out a big enough gap to gain anything on strategy or Seb being able to hang around just close enough to prevent this. That's a good advantage to have this early on, I hope we capitalize on it and keep improving further.

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**Stormy** · 27th March 2017, 23:38

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

I'm gonna say they are equal and so sensitive to aero that neither one is gonna be able to get close enough for the overtake. Lewis said on team radio while on fresh tyres and behind Max, who was on old tyres, " there is no way I can pass this guy." then team radio said, "okay lewis, we need you to pressure Max" and Lewis response was, " how do you expect me to do that" meaning he could not get close enough.

Yeah, it's very frustrating to know that it will be extremely difficult to overtake this year. However, let's wait and see, maybe tracks like China will surprise us. At least that's what Horner said.