Spanish GP 2017 - Race thread

[Ferrarichamp]

On another issue, what the heck is Massa doing? This is the second time he delayed Seb while being lapped. Not that it cost him the race, but backmarkers shouldn't be a factor especially now that the top two teams are very closely matched. Maybe next time it would cost Seb.

he has a Mercedes-powered car, so he's not going to go out of his way (pardon the pun) to help Ferrari.

[nani_s23]

I think mercs upgrades worked well in race sim. They brought those to solve their tyre issues & race pace. Which seems to be solved.

[Stormy]

S3 is alot of traction & aero. We are loosing hell of time in that sector.
Monaco circuit contains lot of slow corners , where aero & traction is imp ?? Any worry signs ??
Damn i need that ham to be shown what Ferrari is... In wheel to wheel battle.

You may be right. Mercedes really gained a significant amount with the upgrades they brought. For example they solved their tire issues and also look faster in slower corners, which is worrying a bit. So, can someone give a Monaco preview here? How good do we look given our car at the moment?

[vetalo]

S3 is alot of traction & aero. We are loosing hell of time in that sector.
Monaco circuit contains lot of slow corners , where aero & traction is imp ?? Any worry signs ??
Damn i need that ham to be shown what Ferrari is... In wheel to wheel battle.

I think is the way Ferrari setup their car for this race, so we would be fine in Monaco.
One thing I am so happy is the way Ferrari is conducting themselves. I am amazed the way they changes engines in less that 2 hours, I am also happy that with all the gizmos Mercedes brought we where still there and we would have won if Kimi was around to protect Vettel so Kudus to FERRAI for making F1 racing existing again

[jgonzalesm6]

You may be right. Mercedes really gained a significant amount with the upgrades they brought. For example they solved their tire issues and also look faster in slower corners, which is worrying a bit. So, can someone give a Monaco preview here? How good do we look given our car at the moment?

Monaco is not a race track. Pole pretty much gives you the win for the race from a statistical standpoint. You get P1, you more than likely to have won the race and no overtaking.

[vetalo]

You may be right. Mercedes really gained a significant amount with the upgrades they brought. For example they solved their tire issues and also look faster in slower corners, which is worrying a bit. So, can someone give a Monaco preview here? How good do we look given our car at the moment?

But despite all we could still have had the poll, so we have a good car has a base and I really trust the guys to bring in upgrades that would make us win. For Kimi today it was just bad luck

[Stormy]

Monaco is not a race track. Pole pretty much gives you the win for the race from a statistical standpoint. You get P1, you more than likely to have won the race and no overtaking.

Yeah, pole is more than crucial. However, the gap between us and Merc is pretty close so strategy will play a huge role as well.

But despite all we could still have had the poll, so we have a good car has a base and I really trust the guys to bring in upgrades that would make us win. For Kimi today it was just bad luck

Yeah, even though we lacked a bit of pace compared to Merc in S3, we were way faster in the two other sectors.

[da_one]

[QUOTE=vetalo;938765]No body is pretending anything
They have few hundred people at the base looking as the race evolve (People also said the same thing i was saying) and they can see the game Mercedes was playing know that it was now two against one, once Kimi was taking out by Bottas hitting kimi at the back. from then Mercedes played the dummy and made Ferrari coming early knowing that Vettel would be behind Bottas once he comes out, The strategist should see this game and make the call to switched to 3 stop strategy at least give it a go because no matter what Vettel would always be second even if Bottas had not had engine failure.
That is why they are paid so much. I have been saying from the beginning of test day 1 that Ferrari had a good car, I understand some we would win some we would not, so i am just pointing out today it could have been better strategy wise before people like you start saying blah blah[/QUOTE

Ferrari were aggressive in the first race and it won them the race. Ferrari were aggressive in the 2nd race but it cost them the race. If they changed their strategy in this race and still lost, I'm sure you would still complain. How do you know he would still be 2nd if he switched to a 3 stopper? Show us your computations then why don't you and prove your case that you are better than the highly paid strategists.

[vetalo]

[QUOTE=da_one;938780]

No body is pretending anything
They have few hundred people at the base looking as the race evolve (People also said the same thing i was saying) and they can see the game Mercedes was playing know that it was now two against one, once Kimi was taking out by Bottas hitting kimi at the back. from then Mercedes played the dummy and made Ferrari coming early knowing that Vettel would be behind Bottas once he comes out, The strategist should see this game and make the call to switched to 3 stop strategy at least give it a go because no matter what Vettel would always be second even if Bottas had not had engine failure.
That is why they are paid so much. I have been saying from the beginning of test day 1 that Ferrari had a good car, I understand some we would win some we would not, so i am just pointing out today it could have been better strategy wise before people like you start saying blah blah[/QUOTE

Ferrari were aggressive in the first race and it won them the race. Ferrari were aggressive in the 2nd race but it cost them the race. If they changed their strategy in this race and still lost, I'm sure you would still complain. How do you know he would still be 2nd if he switched to a 3 stopper? Show us your computations then why don't you and prove your case that you are better than the highly paid strategists.

So what was plan C about. Like I said you nothing about racing and I will stand by it

[vetalo]

@da_one
I did not make any complain, may be English is not your first language. I only made a statement that strategy would cost Ferrari the constructor win this year. I did not say Vettel will not win. so don't introduce the word complain.

[da_one]

[QUOTE=vetalo;938781]

So what was plan C about. Like I said you nothing about racing and I will stand by it

Plan C was the ultra aggressive strategy of 3 stopping. Which was very tricky to accomplish and would mean Seb doing qualifying laps during the whole race distance. Hence they did not use it since it involves a lot of factors going your way. If he switched to 3 stops and the VSC still happened, then he was doomed. Why risk more points when you said it yourself. 2nd is already assured?!

[nani_s23]

Monaco is not a race track. Pole pretty much gives you the win for the race from a statistical standpoint. You get P1, you more than likely to have won the race and no overtaking.

What you said is known factor.
What I'm asking is in barcelona s3 was all abt aero &traction. Ferrari lost hell of time.
Where in Monaco it's all abt aero & traction. Will this effect Ferrari. ??

[da_one]

@da_one
I did not make any complain, may be English is not your first language. I only made a statement that strategy would cost Ferrari the constructor win this year. I did not say Vettel will not win. so don't introduce the word complain.

So if you are not complaining, what are you doing then? You are showing your dissatisfaction with the way Ferrari handled the strategy in this race. So what do you call that?

I have nothing against you and I agree that Ferrari should be up there in terms of strategy seeing that their pace is about the same as Mercedes. In fact, I also said they should use Kimi the way Mercs are using Bottas now.

[nani_s23]

Yeah, pole is more than crucial. However, the gap between us and Merc is pretty close so strategy will play a huge role as well.



Yeah, even though we lacked a bit of pace compared to Merc in S3, we were way faster in the two other sectors.

On softs mercs seems to have good advantage over Ferrari.
On SS & US we seem to have good Advantage

[Hornet]

Regarding the Massa incident that was mentioned, I don't think Massa was at fault here.
He went wide to allow Vettel to take the inside of the corner.

It looked like Vettel went a little wide too, hence finding himself behind Massa.

It's not easy letting someone pass at such a corner, but it looks like Massa didn't want to hold Vettel up too long.
He could have took the corner and let Vettel pass at a later part, but that would further cost Vettel time.

[nani_s23]

I don't know why
1) Ferrari went early in for 1st pit stop. Knowing that vet will be left in traffic. (In general Ferrari will stay out for long) it's like a first short stint.

2) Ferrari team would have known, they need to play with 2 mercs car & traffic, when they opt vet to pit.

3) why didn't they react to VSC???

I think vet's pace on softs was not gr8, as ham was catching him that's why they did pit vet early. This might be the reason.

[jgonzalesm6]

What you said is known factor.
What I'm asking is in barcelona s3 was all abt aero &traction. Ferrari lost hell of time.
Where in Monaco it's all abt aero & traction. Will this effect Ferrari. ??

Ferrari will need more aero as there is not even one straight. It could also come down to pit strategy too....whether we do the OVERCUT like we could have done here in Spain in pit 1 or the undercut. It seems the "NEW W08" with all its aero elements has found its "achilles heel" in tyre deg.

[vetalo]

So if you are not complaining, what are you doing then? You are showing your dissatisfaction with the way Ferrari handled the strategy in this race. So what do you call that?

I have nothing against you and I agree that Ferrari should be up there in terms of strategy seeing that their pace is about the same as Mercedes. In fact, I also said they should use Kimi the way Mercs are using Bottas now.

We are both passionate about Ferrari so

[nani_s23]

So it's now official bottas is there to help Hamilton & block Ferrari vet car. He's clearly no.2 now.
We need kimi to do his job by outqualify bottas & good start.

[da_one]

We are both passionate about Ferrari so

[da_one]

So it's now official bottas is there to help Hamilton & block Ferrari vet car. He's clearly no.2 now.
We need kimi to do his job by outqualify bottas & good start.

Agree.

[mardyrt]

Ted summed it up perfectly in Ted's Notebook...

Seb lost the race because: he was held up by Bottas, he was unlucky with the VSC, he spent the longest on the medium tyre.

I do not think Seb and Ferrari lost the race because of VSC, or Bottas. He was in the load after all that. We lost because, team, Ferrari, today, did not have outside of the box thinking, too set on ways. They had ample time to pit twice under VSC. Pit once under VSC, for mediums, its a free pit stop, except for the loss of around 3.5 seconds for the stop. Then, go around, pit again next lap, to change to Softs. It would have given Seb and Ferrari the best chance plus, he would have still remained in the lead. He was up around 7 seconds, -3.5 for the stop, +3.5 for Hamilton's stop, then another -3.5 for the second stop under VSC to change to softs.
So, Seb would have come out ahead of Hamilton. Today Ferrari lost the race because of that. Not because of anything else. Not blaming, just saying. When it is very clear what to do, you must do it. That was the only way.

[Rosso Corsa]

On softs mercs seems to have good advantage over Ferrari.
On SS & US we seem to have good Advantage

Where do you get this from? Seb pulled away from Ham on Softs. He could have beaten Ham to pole on softs if not for a small mistake. We seem to still be marginally better on all tyres.

Our sector 3 was good too.

What's everyone in here on? Cos I don't want any.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[nani_s23]

Where do you get this from? Seb pulled away from Ham on Softs. He could have beaten Ham to pole on softs if not for a small mistake. We seem to still be marginally better on all tyres.

Our sector 3 was good too.

What's everyone in here on? Cos I don't want any.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

First lap to 12 laps vet-ham gap 2.5sec n then from 13th n 14th lap ham was coming back at him. Reduced to 1.8sec.
Ferrari reacted n vet was in pits.
Ham & bottas were on softs till 22laps.

For that 14 laps both ham &vet were pushing for fast laps.
But the gap remained 2sec.
What about last stint of ham ??? He was able to do FL 1.23.5 something on almost 30lsp old tyre...??

[nani_s23]

Where do you get this from? Seb pulled away from Ham on Softs. He could have beaten Ham to pole on softs if not for a small mistake. We seem to still be marginally better on all tyres.

Our sector 3 was good too.

What's everyone in here on? Cos I don't want any.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Haven't you checked sector times??? Ham was superb in last sector, where as vet was struggling all the weekend

[Ferrarichamp]

So it's now official bottas is there to help Hamilton & block Ferrari vet car. He's clearly no.2 now.
We need kimi to do his job by outqualify bottas & good start.

we need Kimi to take out Ham at every opportunity

[nani_s23]

we need Kimi to take out Ham at every opportunity

... I don't see that. Kimi is true gentleman . He's doesn't do that stuff like RB cars & bottas do.

[PURE PASSION]

First lap to 12 laps vet-ham gap 2.5sec n then from 13th n 14th lap ham was coming back at him. Reduced to 1.8sec.
Ferrari reacted n vet was in pits.
Ham & bottas were on softs till 22laps.

For that 14 laps both ham &vet were pushing for fast laps.
But the gap remained 2sec.
What about last stint of ham ??? He was able to do FL 1.23.5 something on almost 30lsp old tyre...??

1st of all,all your post are pessimistic and is like you thying something bad ro say for the team.
2nd since we where in different strategy ,tou cant compare the pace.
And for the 3rd sector,in the race we WHERE better then the Mercs.And surprisingly they (Ham) where better in the 1st .A complete opposite picture from Q

[nani_s23]

1st of all,all your post are pessimistic and is like you thying something bad ro say for the team.
2nd since we where in different strategy ,tou cant compare the pace.

Kindky let me know in which post did i mention anything bad abt the team. ??? All of them were analyzing the bad &good about the race.
Every Ferrari fan in this forum has right to discuss abt the team.
If there no right for me to discuss abt the race or abt Ferrari team.
Then it's waste for me to be in this forum.
Bye to all... Good luck. Hope vet will be crowned WDC.

[The Architect]

A strategic balls up today. Vettel was brought in way too early. Then we shouldn't have responded to Hamilton's second pit stop. It feels like a repeat of Australia last year where we didn't believe Mercedes would make the tyres last. As for Bottas, Mercedes have shown that they're more than willing to throw him under the bus to win the title. Ferrari need to respond in kind.