Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

[Giallo 550]

I'm no Hamilton fan ha ha. I'm a die hard Kimi fan. I just can't stand the way the are treating there former WDC.
But you Ferrari guys can't get objective.

I think you meant "can't be objective." You saying you're a diehard driver fan means you are the one who is subjective. Think about that while you enjoy your ban.

[Brakefade]

Well, Seb is clearly faster/better than Kimi. Kimi could not get away from Seb in the first stint. After the pit stops Seb opened up a considerable gap on Kimi. I love Kimi, but with Seb is clearly better. Kimi should've opened up a gap in the first stint, and it would've been a different story.

This reminds me of that scene in Grand Prix where Pete Aaron gets a driving job from the Japanese guy. You can't worry about other drivers' feelings. Also, what would Enzo do? If you read up on Enzo, you already know the answer.

https://youtu.be/FyReSsFD4PQ

[ScuderiaBuckeye]

Hello, Tifosi! Longtime F1 and Ferrari fan here. My first race was 1979 Watkins Glen when I watched Ferrari win in the rain.

Some thoughts about the race today and what happened w/ Kimi and Seb. Here is a link to some of Kimi's comments for reference:

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/250930/...raikkonen.html

This is the first race this year that Kimi has outperformed Seb in any session that matters (Qual or Race). I was happy for Kimi b/c he nailed the qualifying almost perfectly while Seb had enough tiny mistakes to cost himself pole. The race, however, was a different matter. Both Ferraris kept their positions at the start and appeared to me to speed away from Bottas rather easily. It did not look to me though that Kimi at any point was going to run away from Seb, which is what I would have expected Seb to do had their positions been reversed. At one point Seb dropped about 3 seconds back but that appeared to me to be Seb's doing not Kimi's. Still, I thought Kimi had the race and the win pretty well in hand until he came up to lap Jensen Button...at which point Seb was right on Kimi's tail again as I expected him to be as the pitstop window approached.

On my TV feed (NBC in the US) the announcers were telling me that Kimi was screaming for blue flags to be waved while going through the swimming pool complex when he still had an entire straight between his car and Button's. I then watched for three laps as the gap between Button and Kimi hardly appeared to close, all the while I watched Bottas go from not being in the picture, to barely being in the picture, to being right up on Seb's gearbox. A six second gap to Bottas was gone just like that b/c Kimi refused to push the point w/ Button and expected that Button was going to slow down for him the first sign of Kimi appearing in his mirrors. F1 does not work this way. Button also was involved in a battle of his own on the track and had no reason to slow down until Kimi was right on his rear.

This, imho, is where Kimi lost this race, and where Ferrari decided it was Seb's race to win. Kimi should have driven his easily faster car right up to Jenson's gearbox and Button would have yielded. Seb would have done this. As we all saw, once the Ferraris cleared this portion of traffic they stormed off and opened up a gap again to Bottas. However these few laps in which Kimi let that gap to Bottas close put Ferrari, and especially Seb, in a bad position. They went from not possibly being undercut by Bottas (w/o horrible pitstops by Ferrari) to being in a position in which the undercut was suddenly alive and well. I don't believe Ferrari was going to let this happen again with more traffic and that is why they pitted Kimi when they did. Nobody's fault but Kimi's. He even received a radio message from the team after he cleared this traffic to get his rhythm back. He was hindering the team's chance of winning this race.

Please note then after Kimi pitted the World Championship level, Schumacheresque laps Seb put in before he pitted. Throwing down a 1.15.5xx then a 1.15.2xx won this race for him. Kimi should take note. Kimi has always been a blindingly fast driver, but he has also always been a frustratingly inconsistent driver. This has been Kimi his entire career. The one WDC he owns is largely b/c Fernando Alonso's ego thought it was better for Fernando to lose a WDC than for Fernando's rookie teammate to win one.

A couple other things. The decision to pit Max when Red Bull did was the right move. It was countered tactically by Mercedes then immediately pitting Bottas. If they had left Bottas out one more lap the undercut would have worked. Ricciardo then took advantage and put in hot laps to make the overcut on both of them. I'm sure that Horner will explain this to Max as he said he would in his interview after the race. Also, Hamilton's comments today about Ferrari favoring Vettel are interesting coming on the heels of his comments over the past 10 days that he would not be playing mind games on Seb between races. Seb will not fall for it, he is too strong, but it shows that Hamilton has already reached some stage of desperation this season, as the Mercedes is clearly not the complete package it has been for the previous three, and it looks now like Bottas might have a better handle on that car than Hamilton does.

Things look positive for Ferrari looking towards the rest of the season. They clearly have a fast car this year capable of winning the WC's, and they have a world class championship driver in Vettel, one of the best of all time. My only concerns are w/ the development of the car b/c that has not been a Ferrari strength going on close to a decade now, and some lingering concerns I have about Ferrari's tactical decisions during the race simply b/c they have not been running at the front of many races and challenging for wins for some time. I'm somebody who thinks the call to pit Seb under the VSC in China was not a slam dunk great decision that was only scuppered by an untimely safety car. I thought it was risky b/c the race in China was in the rain and wet races in F1 typically involve a safety car, especially early in the race when most of the cars are still on track. Ferrari should have been betting ON a safety car in that situation, not against one. Also, Ferrari did not pit Seb under the VSC in Spain when they appeared they could have done so and Hamilton did pit under those conditions. That is why Seb's 7 second lead in that race disappeared and Hamilton got back on his rear and was able to pass him for the win. Two potential race wins thrown away by questionable pit wall decisions, not untimely safety car periods.

That said, I don't think Ferrari's tactics are bad, they just do not appear to be honed to me b/c the team has not been challenging for race wins on a regular basis for some time. They will improve no doubt so long as Ferrari can continue to challenge for wins all year long.

One last word on Seb...has anybody else noticed that he appears to be the one driver on the grid this year that can race closely behind another car and not worry about losing his tires or grip in the front end? Hamilton and Bottas cannot do this. The tires on the Mercedes get too hot. Kimi cannot do it either, I don't think. Seb chased Hamilton around in Australia right on his rear, no problem, and did the same again to Bottas in Russia, and again today with Kimi. Seb is our #1 driver and Ferrari's best bet to win the WDC this season, and the WDC, as long as I've been a fan of the team, is the goal of Scuderia Ferrari. The WCC is always a cherry on top, or a fine alternative if they cannot win the WDC. I'll take the WDC any day, and Seb's the guy to bring it to us. On to Canada...

[fmatiasii]

What's with all the fuzz about Kimi? I can't believe this guy "Not my team" is saying bad things about other people, he is rightfully banned in this forum. Clearly not a Tifosi.

[killer]

Here's where and how the race changed. Seb made the most of his in laps and spent 1.5 secs less in the pits.

(RAI - VET)

33 1:17.034 1:17.188 (RAI inlap)
34 1:34.039 1:16.592 (RAI pit)
35 1:19.518 1:16.446
36 1:16.114 1:16.264
37 1:16.133 1:15.587
38 1:15.606 1:15.238 (VET inlap)
39 1:15.527 1:32.673 (VET pit)
40 1:17.709 1:18.650

The next laps solidify the result. Immediately after taking the lead, Seb pumps in fast lap after fast lap. He had built the gap up to 12 seconds right before the SC was called in. Save for 2 or 3 laps, Kimi was slower than Seb over these 20 odd laps; at almost 1 sec/lap at the beginning of the stint.

(RAI - VET)

41 1:17.673 1:16.190
42 1:17.293 1:16.352
43 1:17.458 1:16.754
44 1:17.046 1:16.387
45 1:17.493 1:16.566
46 1:17.376 1:16.311
47 1:17.319 1:16.799
48 1:17.015 1:16.069
49 1:16.841 1:16.371
50 1:16.883 1:16.380
51 1:17.022 1:16.898
52 1:17.094 1:16.521
53 1:16.784 1:16.637
54 1:16.465 1:16.025
55 1:16.864 1:16.573
56 1:16.867 1:16.381
57 1:16.343 1:16.103
58 1:16.583 1:16.806
59 1:16.647 1:17.011
60 1:30.717 1:22.892 (SC)

Anyone ready to claim conspiracy better be ready to ask the same questions of Red Bull. Did they screw Max over with Daniel just 2 points ahead? The overcut worked. That was it.

It makes for good drama but really, there's nothing sinister to be made of the Ferrari 1-2 in Monaco.

[fmatiasii]

I'm even surprised why a lot of people are making a big issue out of this, I personally don't care who wins as long as there are two Ferrari cars finishing. Clearly, there was no team order and Seb had a simply faster race pace so it should be no big deal. It's not the first time we've seen this happened in the past. Unlike mercs that issue team order to favor a particular driver and in the end they don't get criticize for it. Now that our team are winning again, it seems they criticize everything.

[SS454]

Happy Ferrari won, first time since 2001. However, very disappointing Kimi didn't get the win. Vettel had the pace to deserve the win, but Ferrari's strategy on Kimi was crap and screwed him over.

There was no reason to pit Kimi when there was no risk of an undercut. Then the time they do pit him, they put him right into traffic. After that, it almost seemed that Kimi lost his drive since there was no way he'd be able to pass on track against his teamate.

Also not sure why they said Perez set a race track record at 1:14.9 when in 2004 they did a 1:14.439 in the race.

[fmatiasii]

Happy Ferrari won, first time since 2001. However, very disappointing Kimi didn't get the win. Vettel had the pace to deserve the win, but Ferrari's strategy on Kimi was crap and screwed him over.

There was no reason to pit Kimi when there was no risk of an undercut. Then the time they do pit him, they put him right into traffic. After that, it almost seemed that Kimi lost his drive since there was no way he'd be able to pass on track against his teamate.

Also not sure why they said Perez set a race track record at 1:14.9 when in 2004 they did a 1:14.439 in the race.

The team needed to pit Kimi in reaction to Bottas attempt at an undercut, so it's not the team's fault.

[da_one]

Here's where and how the race changed. Seb made the most of his in laps and spent 1.5 secs less in the pits.

(RAI - VET)

33 1:17.034 1:17.188 (RAI inlap)
34 1:34.039 1:16.592 (RAI pit)
35 1:19.518 1:16.446
36 1:16.114 1:16.264
37 1:16.133 1:15.587
38 1:15.606 1:15.238 (VET inlap)
39 1:15.527 1:32.673 (VET pit)
40 1:17.709 1:18.650

The next laps solidify the result. Immediately after taking the lead, Seb pumps in fast lap after fast lap. He had built the gap up to 12 seconds right before the SC was called in. Save for 2 or 3 laps, Kimi was slower than Seb over these 20 odd laps; at almost 1 sec/lap at the beginning of the stint.

(RAI - VET)

41 1:17.673 1:16.190
42 1:17.293 1:16.352
43 1:17.458 1:16.754
44 1:17.046 1:16.387
45 1:17.493 1:16.566
46 1:17.376 1:16.311
47 1:17.319 1:16.799
48 1:17.015 1:16.069
49 1:16.841 1:16.371
50 1:16.883 1:16.380
51 1:17.022 1:16.898
52 1:17.094 1:16.521
53 1:16.784 1:16.637
54 1:16.465 1:16.025
55 1:16.864 1:16.573
56 1:16.867 1:16.381
57 1:16.343 1:16.103
58 1:16.583 1:16.806
59 1:16.647 1:17.011
60 1:30.717 1:22.892 (SC)

Anyone ready to claim conspiracy better be ready to ask the same questions of Red Bull. Did they screw Max over with Daniel just 2 points ahead? The overcut worked. That was it.

It makes for good drama but really, there's nothing sinister to be made of the Ferrari 1-2 in Monaco.

Exactly. Kimi was disappointed after the race because he probably thought Ferrari screwed him. Once they review telemetry in the post-race briefing, he would realize that Vettel won it on merit and not due to team orders.

[SS454]

The team needed to pit Kimi in reaction to Bottas attempt at an undercut, so it's not the team's fault.

an undercut from tires that are very slow to warm up? It's not like Max and Bottas was right behind Kimi. In fact, if the undercut was such a probability, why didn't they pit Vettel instead?

[da_one]

an undercut from tires that are very slow to warm up? It's not like Max and Bottas was right behind Kimi. In fact, if the undercut was such a probability, why didn't they pit Vettel instead?

If they pit Vettel first, then it would seem he had preference over Kimi, which was not the case because Kimi got pole and hence the luxury of pitting first. Too bad the undercut didn't work not just for Kimi, but for Max and Bottas as well.

[fmatiasii]

an undercut from tires that are very slow to warm up? It's not like Max and Bottas was right behind Kimi. In fact, if the undercut was such a probability, why didn't they pit Vettel instead?

It is what it is so better get over it mate.

[SS454]

It is what it is so better get over it mate.

A Ferrari 1-2 at Monaco is hardly a sour taste.

Would anyone agree that it was a terribly boring race? I'm so happy I was able to fast forward through 85% of it.

[fmatiasii]

A Ferrari 1-2 at Monaco is hardly a sour taste.

Would anyone agree that it was a terribly boring race? I'm so happy I was able to fast forward through 85% of it.

Boring race? when mercs were dominating was it boring also?

[nani_s23]

an undercut from tires that are very slow to warm up? It's not like Max and Bottas was right behind Kimi. In fact, if the undercut was such a probability, why didn't they pit Vettel instead?

When bottas & Max pitted. Ric was on track & doing FL.
They need to cover ric too.
On SS initial laps are hard to get on.

[theodorus8864]

No he was in fuel saving mode. The race was lost when he got back in traffic, which cost him more than a 1 second.

It is irrelevant to go on fuel-saving mode on a narrow street circuit as it is not a power circuit, nor even a team radio instruction on it. Therefore, I don't know on which ground you pull such a rubbish statement.

You can claim anything you want on how Kimi being treated unfairly. Everyone can voice out an opinion, but DON'T start serving it as if it were a fact.

None of us has the access to the telemetry data, not even the bloody commentator David Croft. So everyone spits out their words based on personal observation, which can be either right or wrong.

[fmatiasii]

When bottas & Max pitted. Ric was on track & doing FL.
They need to cover ric too.
On SS initial laps are hard to get on.

well said mate, i really don't understand why some people don't get it.

[SS454]

Boring race? when mercs were dominating was it boring also?

For the most part yes. Besides Mercedes haven't exactly been dominating Monaco over the last 3 years. Hamilton's pit mistake was exciting, the Riciardo's pit drama last year was a big moment. This year's race, was far worse. Up until Button punting the Sauber on it's side, there was no action at all.

[nani_s23]

One more reason.
Ferrari pit wall might have observed from Max & bottas.
Max was trying to undercut bottas. Which didn't work out because, bottas did a strong lap when Max was in. This is the key point.
Ferrari decided undercut doesnt work here. So lead driver got the pit stop priority first.

[fmatiasii]

For the most part yes. Besides Mercedes haven't exactly been dominating Monaco over the last 3 years. Hamilton's pit mistake was exciting, the Riciardo's pit drama last year was a big moment. This year's race, was far worse. Up until Button punting the Sauber on it's side, there was no action at all.

Well, i'm sorry to hear that. But as for me, i am just happy that Ferrari is back in winning again. Isn't that what a true Tifosi wants? ah yes, maybe you're not one.

[SS454]

Well, i'm sorry to hear that. But as for me, i am just happy that Ferrari is back in winning again. Isn't that what a true Tifosi wants? ah yes, maybe you're not one.

Read the very first thing I said. "Happy Ferrari won".

Sorry that I am a fan of racing and action.

[fmatiasii]

Read the very first thing I said. "Happy Ferrari won".

Sorry that I am a fan of racing and action.

Very well then, but you have to understand that the last time Ferrari was in this situation was during the time of Schumi so i guess it's understandable that most people here are ecstatic and that includes me regardless of the course of the race.

[Zerocool]

Kimi's pit stop was 3.4 sec and seb's was 3.1sec and when when seb came out it was very close may be only the difference in time between both the pitstops so I don't think it was planned strategy to favour seb. If only kimi's pitstop would have been same as seb's I seriously think kimi would have been in front. So I don't think even the pitstop timing can be planned. Clearly seb was not favoured

[fmatiasii]

Kimi's pit stop was 3.4 sec and seb's was 3.1sec and when when seb came out it was very close may be only the difference in time between both the pitstops so I don't think it was planned strategy to favour seb. If only kimi's pitstop would have been same as seb's I seriously think kimi would have been in front. So I don't think even the pitstop timing can be planned. Clearly seb was not favoured

right.

[Hills]

A good race and a well deserved 1 & 2 finish. Seb was faster, he deserved the win.

I hated the anti Ferrari sky commentary, especially from crofty who is so much of a merc fan boy.

A good race and results.

[Ojie1214]

Nevertheless Scuderia Ferrari won! #ForzaFerrari

[Nava_Forza284]

Great win! Gutted for Kimi but Seb deserved it definitely. Really happy for the 1-2 but seriously guys, how do you handle all the trolls and haters?? I literally can't handle these deluded people on twitter ��

[vecchiasignora]

I think if Kimi stayed out longer, and Vettel pitted earlier then Kimi. Vettel would have still won.
Only scenario Kimi was going to win, is pitting together at same time.Which was not possible. Qualifying played huge role in this race, Bottas slowed down the red bulls for us.And I think red bulls might have been faster then Kimi.

[wacc]

Could not watch the race live having problems with the IPTV. So had to fast forward it late at night.
What a weekend! Thank you Ferrari, you have been doing an amazing job.

Some people have been eager to jump out on Ferrari whenever its possible. Me too would have loved to see Kimi win but he had not prepaid the race win on saturday. You have to be fast and agresive at the key moments during the race and from the info about lap times before and after pit stops it doesnt seem like Kimi was flying. It may be, Ferrari did pit Kimi a bit earlier than what was optimal, but that would need a bit more analysis of lap times and position of slower cars at the track. I would like to see Kimi commenting a bit more about the race after the debrief.

[mirafiori]

A good race and a well deserved 1 & 2 finish. Seb was faster, he deserved the win.

I hated the anti Ferrari sky commentary, especially from crofty who is so much of a merc fan boy.

A good race and results.

Like you said Ferrari win was deserved, the anti Ferrari comments from the uk sky team was totally wrong.