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Thread: Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

  1. #871
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    Great result for the team. I just don't think demoralizing the other garage completely was a wise decision to do in the 6th race of the season - we will see what happens to WCC...

    Kimi should've won.

  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by barzini77 View Post
    Great result for the team. I just don't think demoralizing the other garage completely was a wise decision to do in the 6th race of the season - we will see what happens to WCC...

    Kimi should've won.
    His pace was not good enough for the win.

  3. #873
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    Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

    I am of those who believe and want teams to have team orders. I believe that a team should give the advantage to the one who has more chances to win the title. But after all these posts i don't see anyone to write this: for those who accuse Kimi multiple times that during races he looses interest to compete or he is not always pushing to the limit....has any of you heard of racing mentality/confidence.....I truly believe that when all these years most of the misfortunes happen to kimis car, when he does not always take the last upgrade parts and when in the past Ferrari have screwed him in race strategy then a driver is logical to loose confidence and slow down taking even unconsciously the second role. Kimi is getting paid to compete and he should always try to give 100% BUT PLEASE give this guy a break. I think Ferrari couldn't find a better "second driver" who causes almost no issues with his calm and out of the spotlight behavior. He is a perfect match for vettel. I hope Ferrari to give him another 2 year contract!! Don't forget how Kimi took his only championship in the last race....that guy has proved he has got balls!!

  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    His pace was not good enough for the win.
    Yes it was, but it's pointless to argue it now - damage has been done already.

  5. #875
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    barzini77
    You have to be kidding me. Look at the lap times. Kimi did nothing special. Usually, drivers push like hell when it comes to pit stop window. Last 10 laps before his pit stop Kimi just managed to do:
    24 1:17.269
    25 1:17.236
    26 1:17.938
    27 1:17.801
    28 1:17.028
    29 1:16.876
    30 1:17.105
    31 1:17.074
    32 1:17.663
    33 1:17.034

    After he pitted, he had done:
    36 1:16.114
    37 1:16.133
    38 1:15.606
    39 1:15.527

    And now look at Seb, before his stop after Kimi went to pit lane:
    35 1:16.446
    36 1:16.264
    37 1:15.587
    38 1:15.238


    That is all I need to see to make a picture about how fast Kimi was and how he lost the race win himself.

  6. #876
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    It's Monaco, there's no possible way to overtake unless team decides to swap the drivers - which they did because Vettel is the top gun for the WDC. I can understand it but I don't have to agree with it.

  7. #877
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    There is no possible way to overtake other than to overtake during pitstops.
    Vettel is the top gun, because he has been performing better than Kimi all season long.

  8. #878
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    I mean I can understand it that why they made the swap. There's no discussion that Seb hasn't performed better than Kimi. Sebastian has been amazing all season long - it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth to deny Kimi the victory, perhaps the last of his career.
    But business is business, hopefully Ferrari can deal with the outrage in social media.

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacc View Post
    There is no possible way to overtake other than to overtake during pitstops.
    Vettel is the top gun, because he has been performing better than Kimi all season long.
    I cannot believe i am seeing this...teams who have data mercedes and redbull ..specifically wolff and horner...clearly mentioned that there was no data available to predict if overcut or undercut was the better strategy during the first stint..and they all defended ferrarri saying that ferrarri could not have orchestrated it ...yet here we are.. accusing our own team when they did nothing wrong...

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by barzini77 View Post
    I mean I can understand it that why they made the swap. There's no discussion that Seb hasn't performed better than Kimi. Sebastian has been amazing all season long - it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth to deny Kimi the victory, perhaps the last of his career.
    But business is business, hopefully Ferrari can deal with the outrage in social media.
    Good for you, that you can understand. On the other hand, I can not understand, why Red Bull made the swap too.
    Please, tell me, how was Kimi's pace good enough, seeing the lap times above? Before his stop he was laping nearly 2 seconds slower than what was possible. Why? Maybe he had read your posts about "no possible way to overtake" in Monaco, so he thought he could slow-mo himself till the end and get that win easily. Pfff.

    It is not completely impossible that Ferrari had not chosen the optimal time for pit stop for Kim, but if Kimi was miles faster than Seb, Ferrari could do nothing to make the swap except screwing up the tyre change on Kimis car.

  11. #881
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    Forget about replacing Kimi with someone who finished behind him! He had the right car and look at the results! He needs 2 more years with Ferrari.

  12. #882
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    No need to get so offended. Ferrari wanted to swap them and they did - end of story.

  13. #883
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    Of course Ferrari wanted the swap but Kimi did them a favour making the swap himself while driving not as fast as Seb did during the crunch time - end of story.

  14. #884
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    Yup, hopefully it won't damage the team harmony.

  15. #885
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    Move on people, let's look forward to the next race.
    Forza Ferrari


  16. #886
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    I really don't get it guys.
    You complain about Kimi. I am sad too, because I strongly believe that Kimi is not Iceman but a very, very, very emotional guy. The fact that he was cruising after the pit stops says everything. As long as he can win, he can give the 100%.
    But that 100% obviously is not enough against Vettel. It's pretty clear.
    Vettel was roughly 1sec in front of Kimi. Even without the 1.15.x laps he could be in front of Kimi. Kimi was lapping at 1.17 before the pitstops and when he pit, VET put an 1.16.
    Clearly, Kimi was not pushing. Either because he couldn't or because he thought that VET couldn't. Either way it's his "fault".

    When you want to go for a pitstop, you need to have 2-3 secs difference. Everyone knows that.

  17. #887
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    Now some people are saying that Kimi drove slower on purpose.

  18. #888
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    We had double win in the quali and in the race and still some complains.

    That was beautiful weekend. The best thing to me is that Mercedes can only beat us if strategy, SC or other things help them. In pure race pace we are strong as hell.
    Big thanks to the team that they create this beast and can manage it to get the wins.
    Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

  19. #889
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    Looking at the posts, clearly there are two type of fans here: driver fans and team fans. I might be biased (Ferrari + Vettel & Kimi in that order) but i couldn't believe when Kimi started complaining about Button (blue flags) and forgot to race and the advantage to Bottas/Vers was literally erased and thus making both drivers vulnerable to under and overcut! He might not have been warned about his stop and have a chance to push, but still, he had a few laps after clearing the backmarkers + knew that pitstop window had opened to push and reduce exposure. Big difference regarding Vettel is that the latter thinks on his feet during the race and sometimes questions the wisdom of decisions the team makes. Decision to pit can be argued. What cannot be argued is the 1.15's before the stop and the stonking 1s advantage after the stop. I feel sorry for Kimi, he must have felt he did everything to win, but clearly someone else did a better job and was rewarded.

  20. #890
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    If Kimi was faster why didn't he create a cushion ? It's Simple Seb was just faster

  21. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinkas View Post
    Looking at the posts, clearly there are two type of fans here: driver fans and team fans. I might be biased (Ferrari + Vettel & Kimi in that order) but i couldn't believe when Kimi started complaining about Button (blue flags) and forgot to race and the advantage to Bottas/Vers was literally erased and thus making both drivers vulnerable to under and overcut! He might not have been warned about his stop and have a chance to push, but still, he had a few laps after clearing the backmarkers + knew that pitstop window had opened to push and reduce exposure. Big difference regarding Vettel is that the latter thinks on his feet during the race and sometimes questions the wisdom of decisions the team makes. Decision to pit can be argued. What cannot be argued is the 1.15's before the stop and the stonking 1s advantage after the stop. I feel sorry for Kimi, he must have felt he did everything to win, but clearly someone else did a better job and was rewarded.
    Thank you! Cool somebody else noticed how much time Kimi lost/wasted putzing around behind Button crying about blue flags. If Kimi feels bad about not winning yesterday he should go look in the mirror. Race was his to win and he could not win it.

  22. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Thank you! Cool somebody else noticed how much time Kimi lost/wasted putzing around behind Button crying about blue flags. If Kimi feels bad about not winning yesterday he should go look in the mirror. Race was his to win and he could not win it.
    Yes because Ferrari didn't let him, they wanted Seb to win and the managed the swap during pitstops, no need to create this goold ol' KIMI IS -drama.
    And oh, Ferrari is totally entitled to do these kind of things, they are the team and drivers are employees. But if you honestly think Ferrari was going to let them finish 1-2 with Kimi winning, then it's time to wake up.

  23. #893
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    Quote Originally Posted by barzini77 View Post
    Yes because Ferrari didn't let him, they wanted Seb to win and the managed the swap during pitstops, no need to create this goold ol' KIMI IS -drama.
    And oh, Ferrari is totally entitled to do these kind of things, they are the team and drivers are employees. But if you honestly think Ferrari was going to let them finish 1-2 with Kimi winning, then it's time to wake up.
    If Kimi had stormed off down the road and put Seb in the distance behind him what do you think Ferrari would have done?

  24. #894
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    Instead of recognizing and appreciating our team's achievement, he we are bickering about team orders and endless conspiracy theories. I'm sure Kimi would have moved on by now. So can we put this to rest and focus on trying to get another win at the Canadian grand prix.

  25. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    If Kimi had stormed off down the road and put Seb in the distance behind him what do you think Ferrari would have done?
    With Vettel's pace advantage, overcut or undercut, he would have beaten Kimi.

    He did not even need to gap Vettel, we needed a decent gap for a Ferrari 1-2 and failed that. Otherwise there would not be a threat from Daniel, Bottas/Verstappen in the first place.

  26. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    Instead of recognizing and appreciating our team's achievement, he we are bickering about team orders and endless conspiracy theories. I'm sure Kimi would have moved on by now. So can we put this to rest and focus on trying to get another win at the Canadian grand prix.
    Tell me about it!! We've spent years waiting for Ferrari to be competitive again we get our first 1-2 since 2010 and people are still not happy. All the doom and gloom this forum has suffered over the years but this is a FERRARI forum the TEAMS achievements come first BEFORE the drivers! I do feel for Kimi but there WILL be other races where he can challenge for the win our car is amazing this year and all thanks to the FERRARI TEAM.

  27. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrari_Fanatic View Post
    Tell me about it!! We've spent years waiting for Ferrari to be competitive again we get our first 1-2 since 2010 and people are still not happy. All the doom and gloom this forum has suffered over the years but this is a FERRARI forum the TEAMS achievements come first BEFORE the drivers! I do feel for Kimi but there WILL be other races where he can challenge for the win our car is amazing this year and all thanks to the FERRARI TEAM.
    I completely agree with you mate

  28. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacc View Post
    barzini77
    You have to be kidding me. Look at the lap times. Kimi did nothing special. Usually, drivers push like hell when it comes to pit stop window. Last 10 laps before his pit stop Kimi just managed to do:
    24 1:17.269
    25 1:17.236
    26 1:17.938
    27 1:17.801
    28 1:17.028
    29 1:16.876
    30 1:17.105
    31 1:17.074
    32 1:17.663
    33 1:17.034

    After he pitted, he had done:
    36 1:16.114
    37 1:16.133
    38 1:15.606
    39 1:15.527

    And now look at Seb, before his stop after Kimi went to pit lane:
    35 1:16.446
    36 1:16.264
    37 1:15.587
    38 1:15.238


    That is all I need to see to make a picture about how fast Kimi was and how he lost the race win himself.
    It is very possible that Ferrari/Kimi were in a tire saving strategy at that time. I find it somewhat hard to believe that Seb was 1 to 1.5 seconds on the same worn Ultra Soft tires. I also find it hard to believe that Kimi's faster and yet long lasting Ultra Soft tires were so worn down after 28 laps that he could only get low 1:17s.

    The sudden reaction by Ferrari to pit Kimi was unwarranted. Kimi was 5 seconds ahead of Bottas when he pitted, and Max was a further 1.5 seconds behind him. How could Ferrari seriously think Bottas would be 2 seconds a lap faster (1:15.0s) with the Super Softs which they should have known take a long time to get up to temperature. Not to mention is a tire that's at least 0.5 seconds slower than the Ultra Soft anyways.

    That knee jerk reaction by Ferrari to pit Kimi and release him directly into Traffic was wrong. I wouldn't say it was manufactured to get Vettel in front of Kimi, it was just a bad strategy call.

  29. #899
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    That would explain Greenwood's furious reaction in the pits.

  30. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrari_Fanatic View Post
    Tell me about it!! We've spent years waiting for Ferrari to be competitive again we get our first 1-2 since 2010 and people are still not happy. All the doom and gloom this forum has suffered over the years but this is a FERRARI forum the TEAMS achievements come first BEFORE the drivers! I do feel for Kimi but there WILL be other races where he can challenge for the win our car is amazing this year and all thanks to the FERRARI TEAM.
    +1

    The FASTER more CONSISTENT driver won. simple.

    Plus we also need to look grid spot penalties as they are looming in the future....HENCE, Ferrari along with Vettel's CONSISTENCY needs to create a buffer between Lewis and GAIN as many pts as we can.

    Kimi created his own demise since the beginning of this year. I like the guy and I'm sure he is great person outside the car. We need consistency now that we have the car. This probably won't be the first time this happens as we have several races to go.

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