Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

Wasn't it Kimi that asked about the pitstop first? The team reacted to him reacting to Bottas and Verstappen pitting. Explain how Richardo jumped Both Verstappen and Bottas... When he went for it too just like Seb did they both jumped their team mates. I'm sorry Kimi feels like he's been robbed but the team reacted to what he was asking. ANYWAYS! A great result for the FERRARI TEAM 1 & 2

[darkchild]

Vettel took Kimis soul with this one. It was clear to see, Vettel dominated him hard in race. In Q, Vettel definitely didn't deliver (he was tenth faster then in FP3) and looked rather uncomfortable, so thumbs up for Kimi and his great lap to win the pole. But pole doesn't get you win and it doesn't bring home 25pts.

Just to put things into perspective, when Vettel is ahead of Kimi in clear air, he puts AT LEAST 10s between them as a buffer. So 10 seconds is least that Vettel had in his buffer against Kimi when he was leading this season. Other times he had 22s, 23s and 41s. Huge advantage.

First time Kimi drives infront of Vettel he cannot get more then 1s buffer by the time he has to pit. So that means, in 35 laps driving in free air, Kimi wasn't able to gain even a TENTH of a second on Vettel. And we know what it means to drive 1-1.5s behind someone in Monaco. It means that guy has MUCH more pace in hand, but its impossible to get closer duo to wake of front car trowing aero balance off.

As soon as Kimi pitted, Vettel drove 3 laps that were at least 1.5s faster then anything Kimi managed in his last 10 laps on US. It was MINDBOGGLINGLY fast. So fast in fact that it took Perez 43 more laps, new US tires and quali amount of fuel to beat it by 4 tenths.

Had Kimi stayed out he would be lapping in 17s until backmarkers are no longer an issue, but that would mean Sainz could become issue since he was faster. But even if Sainz wasnt an issue, Ferrari would then pit Vettel instead of Kimi to react to Merc/RB pitting and Ric gaining big time on our cars, and Vettel would EASILY drove 3-4 laps in 15s on new SS tires and that means Kimi would get out 3-4s behind Vettel. At least.

Vettel destroyed him and everyone else on race pace yesterday. After this kind of domination, I don't see how can Kimi recover. He can put blinder in Q from time to time, but his race pace was lacking in last few years. This time though, Vettel is faster even when 1s behind him in his wake driving around tight streets of Monaco.

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

Vettel took Kimis soul with this one. It was clear to see, Vettel dominated him hard in race. In Q, Vettel definitely didn't deliver (he was tenth faster then in FP3) and looked rather uncomfortable, so thumbs up for Kimi and his great lap to win the pole. But pole doesn't get you win and it doesn't bring home 25pts.

Just to put things into perspective, when Vettel is ahead of Kimi in clear air, he puts AT LEAST 10s between them as a buffer. So 10 seconds is least that Vettel had in his buffer against Kimi when he was leading this season. Other times he had 22s, 23s and 41s. Huge advantage.

First time Kimi drives infront of Vettel he cannot get more then 1s buffer by the time he has to pit. So that means, in 35 laps driving in free air, Kimi wasn't able to gain even a TENTH of a second on Vettel. And we know what it means to drive 1-1.5s behind someone in Monaco. It means that guy has MUCH more pace in hand, but its impossible to get closer duo to wake of front car trowing aero balance off.

As soon as Kimi pitted, Vettel drove 3 laps that were at least 1.5s faster then anything Kimi managed in his last 10 laps on US. It was MINDBOGGLINGLY fast. So fast in fact that it took Perez 43 more laps, new US tires and quali amount of fuel to beat it by 4 tenths.

Had Kimi stayed out he would be lapping in 17s until backmarkers are no longer an issue, but that would mean Sainz could become issue since he was faster. But even if Sainz wasnt an issue, Ferrari would then pit Vettel instead of Kimi to react to Merc/RB pitting and Ric gaining big time on our cars, and Vettel would EASILY drove 3-4 laps in 15s on new SS tires and that means Kimi would get out 3-4s behind Vettel. At least.

Vettel destroyed him and everyone else on race pace yesterday. After this kind of domination, I don't see how can Kimi recover. He can put blinder in Q from time to time, but his race pace was lacking in last few years. This time though, Vettel is faster even when 1s behind him in his wake driving around tight streets of Monaco.

Exactly how I saw it too! Like I said i do feel for Kimi but Ferrari didn't do anything wrong! It's just the media and everyone else trying to destabilise the team. We as Ferrari fan's ALL won yesterday let us not forget that

[jgonzalesm6]

Vettel took Kimis soul with this one. It was clear to see, Vettel dominated him hard in race. In Q, Vettel definitely didn't deliver (he was tenth faster then in FP3) and looked rather uncomfortable, so thumbs up for Kimi and his great lap to win the pole. But pole doesn't get you win and it doesn't bring home 25pts.

Just to put things into perspective, when Vettel is ahead of Kimi in clear air, he puts AT LEAST 10s between them as a buffer. So 10 seconds is least that Vettel had in his buffer against Kimi when he was leading this season. Other times he had 22s, 23s and 41s. Huge advantage.

First time Kimi drives infront of Vettel he cannot get more then 1s buffer by the time he has to pit. So that means, in 35 laps driving in free air, Kimi wasn't able to gain even a TENTH of a second on Vettel. And we know what it means to drive 1-1.5s behind someone in Monaco. It means that guy has MUCH more pace in hand, but its impossible to get closer duo to wake of front car trowing aero balance off.

As soon as Kimi pitted, Vettel drove 3 laps that were at least 1.5s faster then anything Kimi managed in his last 10 laps on US. It was MINDBOGGLINGLY fast. So fast in fact that it took Perez 43 more laps, new US tires and quali amount of fuel to beat it by 4 tenths.

Had Kimi stayed out he would be lapping in 17s until backmarkers are no longer an issue, but that would mean Sainz could become issue since he was faster. But even if Sainz wasnt an issue, Ferrari would then pit Vettel instead of Kimi to react to Merc/RB pitting and Ric gaining big time on our cars, and Vettel would EASILY drove 3-4 laps in 15s on new SS tires and that means Kimi would get out 3-4s behind Vettel. At least.

Vettel destroyed him and everyone else on race pace yesterday. After this kind of domination, I don't see how can Kimi recover. He can put blinder in Q from time to time, but his race pace was lacking in last few years. This time though, Vettel is faster even when 1s behind him in his wake driving around tight streets of Monaco.

Kimi and Vettel are best friends. Kimi understands the " TOP BRASS" decisions and why they made the decision. He does'nt like it, but he understands it in the big picture.

[darkchild]

Kimi and Vettel are best friends. Kimi understands the " TOP BRASS" decisions and why they made the decision. He does'nt like it, but he understands it in the big picture.

There was no "decision" though, thats the point. He should understand that ONLY way for him to win (and thats a maybe) was to pit Vettel in very next lap after him just to protect Kimi's possible win. But that would mean Ferrari not giving a chance to Vettel to show what his got on US (and he had PLENTY) just to give Kimi a victory.

He made a mistake as soon as he was only 1.1s ahead when he pitted. That means, in comparison to Vettel, he had no pace.

[jgonzalesm6]

There was no "decision" though, thats the point. He should understand that ONLY way for him to win (and thats a maybe) was to pit Vettel in very next lap after him just to protect Kimi's possible win. But that would mean Ferrari not giving a chance to Vettel to show what his got on US (and he had PLENTY) just to give Kimi a victory.

He made a mistake as soon as he was only 1.1s ahead when he pitted. That means, in comparison to Vettel, he had no pace.

Well No of course not. But instead of giving team orders, you can use the pits to swap drivers as we have seen. They(strategists) do have telemetry of all drivers on the track given the pit delta.....so its a covert/clandestine "decision" on Ferrari's part knowing that Kimi would be behind traffic. Nevertheless, the faster more consistent driver needed the points to create a buffer against Lewis.

[Greig]

What if we never pitted Kimi and Bottas and Max done an undercut and passed him, the forum would be in uproar. Had Kimi not lost so much time in the backmarkers then we probably would not of pitted him to cover the others. But the crucial point is Kimi needed a gap to Seb, he did not have the pace to do it and Seb once in clear air was simply much faster. Any other track and Seb would have just overtook Kimi and nothing would be said.

[jgonzalesm6]

What if we never pitted Kimi and Bottas and Max done an undercut and passed him, the forum would be in uproar. Had Kimi not lost so much time in the backmarkers then we probably would not of pitted him to cover the others. But the crucial point is Kimi needed a gap to Seb, he did not have the pace to do it and Seb once in clear air was simply much faster. Any other track and Seb would have just overtook Kimi and nothing would be said.

yup

[Stormy]

Just asking, is it possible that Kimi drove slower on purpose to let Seb through?

[jgonzalesm6]

Just asking, is it possible that Kimi drove slower on purpose to let Seb through?

Its a good hypothetical. IMO, when Seb got into clean air, he tore it up with some monster lap times. Kimi was holding up Seb so hence Ferrari's "decision-swap." Also, the way Ferrari pitted both drivers was to swap but also to get the FIA rule on tyres BEFORE a VSC or SC would eventually come out.....it was a good call all the way around.

[stefa]

What if we never pitted Kimi and Bottas and Max done an undercut and passed him, the forum would be in uproar. Had Kimi not lost so much time in the backmarkers then we probably would not of pitted him to cover the others. But the crucial point is Kimi needed a gap to Seb, he did not have the pace to do it and Seb once in clear air was simply much faster. Any other track and Seb would have just overtook Kimi and nothing would be said.

Exactly!
All in all Ferrari brought home big 43 points and took a lead in WCC, and SB extended his lead in DWC, why all this conspiracy theories?! Arent we here to celebrate and support Ferrari? I am! First of all, and I have said that numerious of times here, I am TEAM not a DRIVER supporter. To me Ferrari counts. Offcourse WDC for Ferrari driver is a nice bonus on top of WCC, but to me, as I said, team above all! So stop moaning and enjoy the ride!

[MJ]

That would explain Greenwood's furious reaction in the pits.

i reckon he's Kimi's race engineer? what was the reaction?

given that he would have known the strategy, he may have not asked Kimi to box on that particular lap? further, he should've asked Kimi to build a gap to Seb..

[wisepie]

Exactly!
All in all Ferrari brought home big 43 points and took a lead in WCC, and SB extended his lead in DWC, why all this conspiracy theories?! Arent we here to celebrate and support Ferrari? I am! First of all, and I have said that numerious of times here, I am TEAM not a DRIVER supporter. To me Ferrari counts. Offcourse WDC for Ferrari driver is a nice bonus on top of WCC, but to me, as I said, team above all! So stop moaning and enjoy the ride!

+ 1, enough of all this negative stuff over Kimi and Seb and conspiracy theories, yes I was sorry for Kimi but let's just enjoy our first 1-2 in ages and move on. Hopefully Kimi isn't going to make it into an issue in future races.

[Stormy]

Its a good hypothetical. IMO, when Seb got into clean air, he tore it up with some monster lap times. Kimi was holding up Seb so hence Ferrari's "decision-swap." Also, the way Ferrari pitted both drivers was to swap but also to get the FIA rule on tyres BEFORE a VSC or SC would eventually come out.....it was a good call all the way around.

Yeah but the strategy Ferrari did on Kimi was pretty logical to me. Merc did the same with Bottas and RB with Max but it didn't worked. Kimi had the priority and was called in first which was fair imo. So, the only way Ferrari could've engineered Seb's win was if they asked Kimi to drive slower. However, Kimi was slow the entire race so this does not bare any logic as well.

[Tony]

I'm quite surprised we're still talking about this. Mercedes threw the gauntlet down when they asked Bottas to move over for Hamilton twice in one race.... Ferrari would be imbeciles for not playing the team game here really given that Mercedes has already made it clear who their number 1 driver is this season...

[stefa]

I'm quite surprised we're still talking about this. Mercedes threw the gauntlet down when they asked Bottas to move over for Hamilton twice in one race.... Ferrari would be imbeciles for not playing the team game here really given that Mercedes has already made it clear who their number 1 driver is this season...

This!!!!

[Stormy]

I'm quite surprised we're still talking about this. Mercedes threw the gauntlet down when they asked Bottas to move over for Hamilton twice in one race.... Ferrari would be imbeciles for not playing the team game here really given that Mercedes has already made it clear who their number 1 driver is this season...

I know, even if Ferrari played the team game it would be completely justified. It would be justified even if Mercedes didn't have a number 2 driver but then they would be imbeciles. However, the questions is, did Ferrari really planned for Kimi to end second and Seb to win? Because Kimi's strategy was completely logical to me. The undercut was the way to go, however it didn't work out for neither Kimi, Bottas or Max for that matter. So, did Kimi drive slower on purpose or was he simply slower? What really happened? I guess we will never really know. At the end of the day, who cares, we got a 1-2

[mandzipop]

I can safely say I've been suffering from a terrible hangover today.

Forza Ferrari

[eugene22n]

Absolute joy for me to see this 1-2. Soooo many years of frustration and disappointment.

I was very unhappy with those that think that Ferrari engineered this win for Vettel. All you have to do is look at Max and his race ... exactly the same thing happened to his strategy.

No team saw that these tires would have a "second wind". Vettel did a great job to find that once he got clear air.

[Aberracus]

Absolute joy for me to see this 1-2. Soooo many years of frustration and disappointment.

I was very unhappy with those that think that Ferrari engineered this win for Vettel. All you have to do is look at Max and his race ... exactly the same thing happened to his strategy.

No team saw that these tires would have a "second wind". Vettel did a great job to find that once he got clear air.

I'm totally with you
I'm so proud of Ferrari, it took years but now we are challenging for the championship. We really are.

Congratulations to the team of our dreams




Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[fmatiasii]

I'm quite surprised we're still talking about this. Mercedes threw the gauntlet down when they asked Bottas to move over for Hamilton twice in one race.... Ferrari would be imbeciles for not playing the team game here really given that Mercedes has already made it clear who their number 1 driver is this season...

Exactly! why can't people just accept the results as they are. Just be thankful we got 1-2.

[House]

I hope everybody read this

I will try to predict what would happen if Ferrari stopped Vettel first and then Kimi in the next lap .. And because that doesn't happen I will depend on the data from Max and Bottas .. Also i will use the same pit stop times that vettel and kimi did during the race

1- In case of Max and Bottas when Max pitted he was behind Bottas by 1.3s .. And after Bottas pitted Max was behind by 0.630 (they were both pushing really hard) .. That means that Max was faster by 0.670 in that single lap .. But that wasn't really the case because the pit stop of Bottas (24.308) was way faster than the pit stop of Max (25.343) .. It was faster by 1.035s .. That means that in that single lap Max was faster than Bottas by 1.705s (1.035 + 0.670)

2- Now in the case of Vettel and Kimi .. When Kimi pitted Vettel was behind by 1.238s .. So now if Vettel was the one to pit and Kimi in the next lap .. and assuming that the difference in speed will be equal to that of Max and Bottas .. Then Vettel should have ended in front of Kimi by 0.467s assuming that they both had the exact same pit stop time (1.705 - 1.238) .. But if we added the real difference in the pit stops between Kimi (24.833) and Vettel (24.306) which is 0.527s .. Then Vettel would have ended in front of Kimi by 0.994s (in that scenario they both would have nearly the same circumstances .. vettel would exit the pit behind Wehrlein .. while kimi would have Ericsson in front of him . So they would have both backmarkers in that lap) .

Conclusion : with the overcut or the undercut or any cut in the world Vettel would have ended first .. Because he was simply a lot faster

N.B : In this scenario I assumed that the difference in speed between Kimi and Vettel would have been identical to that of max and bottas .. While in reality it should be way more than that .. Because Vettel on his used ultrasoft was waaaay faster than max when they were both pushing .. that means that Vettel would also have been faster than Max in the new supersoft for both of them .. But any way it won't matter .. Vettel was going to be first in all cases .

[jgonzalesm6]

I hope everybody read this

I will try to predict what would happen if Ferrari stopped Vettel first and then Kimi in the next lap .. And because that doesn't happen I will depend on the data from Max and Bottas .. Also i will use the same pit stop times that vettel and kimi did during the race

1- In case of Max and Bottas when Max pitted he was behind Bottas by 1.3s .. And after Bottas pitted Max was behind by 0.630 (they were both pushing really hard) .. That means that Max was faster by 0.670 in that single lap .. But that wasn't really the case because the pit stop of Bottas (24.308) was way faster than the pit stop of Max (25.343) .. It was faster by 1.035s .. That means that in that single lap Max was faster than Bottas by 1.705s (1.035 + 0.670)

2- Now in the case of Vettel and Kimi .. When Kimi pitted Vettel was behind by 1.238s .. So now if Vettel was the one to pit and Kimi in the next lap .. and assuming that the difference in speed will be equal to that of Max and Bottas .. Then Vettel should have ended in front of Kimi by 0.467s assuming that they both had the exact same pit stop time (1.705 - 1.238) .. But if we added the real difference in the pit stops between Kimi (24.833) and Vettel (24.306) which is 0.527s .. Then Vettel would have ended in front of Kimi by 0.994s (in that scenario they both would have nearly the same circumstances .. vettel would exit the pit behind Wehrlein .. while kimi would have Ericsson in front of him . So they would have both backmarkers in that lap) .

Conclusion : with the overcut or the undercut or any cut in the world Vettel would have ended first .. Because he was simply a lot faster

N.B : In this scenario I assumed that the difference in speed between Kimi and Vettel would have been identical to that of max and bottas .. While in reality it should be way more than that .. Because Vettel on his used ultrasoft was waaaay faster than max when they were both pushing .. that means that Vettel would also have been faster than Max in the new supersoft for both of them .. But any way it won't matter .. Vettel was going to be first in all cases .

So, Vettel was faster and if Kimi was faster than Vettel.... Kimi would have won the race.

But he wasn't so Kimi came in second.

Got it.

[Ferrarichamp]

one thing that surprised me towards the end was how close Ric was to Kimi, under a second at times, I know it's difficult to overtake but still.

[Jax]

one thing that surprised me towards the end was how close Ric was to Kimi, under a second at times, I know it's difficult to overtake but still.

At this point kimi had no reason to push whatsoever.

[Ferrarichamp]

At this point kimi had no reason to push whatsoever.

yeah i get that, but when you're only just 1 sec or less ahead, all it takes is just one mistake, go wide somewhere and the car that's behind has a chance to pass, why risk it?

[Ed Harley]

Why risk it by going faster than what was necessary at that point.

[Kristof_F40]

What if we never pitted Kimi and Bottas and Max done an undercut and passed him, the forum would be in uproar. Had Kimi not lost so much time in the backmarkers then we probably would not of pitted him to cover the others. But the crucial point is Kimi needed a gap to Seb, he did not have the pace to do it and Seb once in clear air was simply much faster. Any other track and Seb would have just overtook Kimi and nothing would be said.

Agree, if you look at it:
By pitting Kimi we covered BOT and VER and had an advantage since Kimi would come out ahead of Sainz.
By letting Seb out we covered RIC. Because of Seb would have pitted also RIC could do the undercut on Seb and Kimi and take the win.
By doing what we did we covered everyone off and made sure we would win the race. If the undercut was the way to go, Kimi would win, if the overcut was the way to go Seb would win. We didn't risk the win.

[From Treviso]

It's up to the driver to respond before and after a pitstop - if he's going faster with the new tyres, then he will be rewarded with position. On the other hand, if a driver can go faster when suddenly in free air, then he will also be rewarded. We could have had exactly the reverse strategy with both drivers but to end up with the same outcome; Vetted may have pitted first and then set blistering laps on fresh rubber, whilst Kim was ignored and told to soldier on with old rubber at a much slower pace. Can you see what's happened? Kimi had the chance to set top pace on fresh rubber but didn't! Yet, Vettel was the fastest of all on old rubber, which Kimi failed to do on the same tyres in clear air! Kimi would have also had tyres in better condition as he was not in the wake of a car in front. Vettel had everything against him: stopped later and stayed out on tyres with higher degradation. He did not break protocol - he did to Kimi what he did to Lewis at Albert Park. Like I said, if the strategy was reversed, I bet Vettel would have still won by being the fastest on new tyres, whilst Kimi was straggling his Ferrari around the circuit like a shopping trolley. Had that been the case, then the knives would have been out saying Vettel was given advantage by pitting early for fresh rubber.

I'm not anti Kim (I tipped him for pole and wanted him to win), I just wanted to set the record straight from my point of view. I believe Kimi's biggest issue is not his speed, but his race fitness - salute!

[Brembo]

Ferrari WCC for sure!!! Winning pole and the race, "It's all about the car! " Just ask Lewis. Merc gave Bottas Lewis' car for 2017. Oh! and 2nd place is just not good enough, get rid of Kimi! Bring back Sato!!