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Thread: Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Who said Greenwood was furious? He may have been unhappy given that this was closest to win Kimi got and he would have been on podium as well, but some jurno reporting on body language of another guy doesnt make it truth.

    And no, it didnt come as surprise, Kimi asked "Are we boxing yet?" To which Greenwood replying "Yes, box this lap Kimi. Box,box"
    The person was some Toni Vilander. And said incident was not after the race but at the time of the stop.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    The person was some Toni Vilander. And said incident was not after the race but at the time of the stop.
    This is absurd, if kimi didn't boxed that lap, we risked losing position in case of a SC, please don't continue with these.


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  3. #963
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    Continue with what?

  4. #964
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    Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    Continue with what?
    Trying to disrespect the team saying that things were manufactured when the team said it wasn't.


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  5. #965
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    Perhaps Greenwood and Kimi were the only ones to know they were pitting early hence the heated atmosphere.

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    Perhaps Greenwood and Kimi were the only ones to know they were pitting early hence the heated atmosphere.
    Maybe we will know when kimi retires and write his book ?


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  7. #967
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    Yes, them Finns write books of their lives all the time.

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Did the media have this much adverse coverage of Mercedes when Bottas moved over for Hamilton twice in the same race? Just asking.... I feel there's quite a bit of hypocrisy right now from their direction.
    Press cannot get over the fact of a 1 -2 in Monaco for the red cars.
    It's ok ,they are going to get used to it.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    The person was some Toni Vilander. And said incident was not after the race but at the time of the stop.
    Soooo...who is the guy on radio telling Kimi to "Box Box Box" after Kimi asks "Are we boxing yet?". Is it Maurizio? Or Sergio Marchionne?

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    Quote Originally Posted by da_one View Post
    Yes pitting Kimi to cover Bottas and Verstappen cost him the win, but not the 1-2. These are the breaks in the race, even Vettel got the short end of the stick twice this season because of it. At the end of the day, You have to account for everything and covering rivals is part of the strategy in every race.
    "Yes" is the correct word. Rubenizing Kimi to cover Bottas and Verstappen is a Ferrari tradition. The results being a 1, 2 finish!! Points galore ! Fans have to keep in mind Kimi 2nd dosen't mean get rid of him for not winning a race. Does anyone here remember " Hey Abbott! who's on first? Seb! Who's on second? Kimi!

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    OMG every neutral analysis says it was not an intentional switch. You are still going against what Ferrari is saying. Are you a Kimi fan or a Ferrari fan ?


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  12. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Soooo...who is the guy on radio telling Kimi to "Box Box Box" after Kimi asks "Are we boxing yet?". Is it Maurizio? Or Sergio Marchionne?
    "Kimi was asked if he chose to come in when he did. “No, I was called in.”"
    It can of course be that Greenwood told Kimi to pit and was cursing himself at the same time for telling him to pit. It could also be that he was told to tell Kimi to pit but such a thought can be taken as disrespectful towards the team.
    In any case Kimi is angry every day of the week and twice on Sundays so that is nothing new.

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    "Yes" is the correct word. Rubenizing Kimi to cover Bottas and Verstappen is a Ferrari tradition. The results being a 1, 2 finish!! Points galore ! Fans have to keep in mind Kimi 2nd dosen't mean get rid of him for not winning a race. Does anyone here remember " Hey Abbott! who's on first? Seb! Who's on second? Kimi!
    There are two very good points of the weekend, first one is naturally Ferrari 1-2 finish and the second is that also the #2 driver now knows he is #2. Makes things a lot clearer.

  14. #974
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    Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

    Or it can be the case that Greenwood called him in considering the Sector times 1 and 2 of VER, and when kimi was committed to the pit stop he saw what finally happened with Ver and Bot. At that moment the risk was severely defused and maybe he was angry with himself for triggering the pit stop too soon ?


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  15. #975
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    Can someone copy and paste the article

    http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...-monaco-defeat

    Thanks

  16. #976
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    Grid spot penalties are looming in the horizon for the Scuderia as I have stated this on a number of posts. Vettel and for thats sake, Kimi, needs as many points to buffer

    Lewis and Bottas when they(grid spot penalties) start to affect us whilst it all comes down to reliability. RedBull is now a distant third.....for now.

  17. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Grid spot penalties are looming in the horizon for the Scuderia as I have stated this on a number of posts. Vettel and for thats sake, Kimi, needs as many points to buffer

    Lewis and Bottas when they(grid spot penalties) start to affect us whilst it all comes down to reliability. RedBull is now a distant third.....for now.
    RB with that car, getting on that podium 3 times in 6races. Really they are very lucky.
    Pretty luckiest team in the paddock.

  18. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizf1 View Post
    Can someone copy and paste the article

    http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...-monaco-defeat

    Thanks
    Here you go.



    People will not look back on the 2017 Monaco Grand Prix fondly because of the excitement of the racing, but because a home team (of sorts) scored a convincing one-two finish. Per square kilometre, there are more Ferraris in Monaco than anywhere else in the world so what better advertisement for your business than a Ferrari one-two in Monte Carlo?

    Monaco is always a bit of a procession, and when poleman Kimi Raikkonen led away, with everyone else more or less in grid order filing their way through Lowe's hairpin, I thought we were in for a long afternoon - and that's what it turned out to be up until the last 10 or so laps.

    The two Ferraris pulled away with ease from Valtteri Bottas's Mercedes and the two Red Bulls. Very soon there was at least a two-second gap between cars, showing how these new 2017 cars just can't follow each other.

    Coming up to lap 30 they were catching backmarkers. Raikkonen started to lose time and Sebastian Vettel immediately shut that gap down to within a second. Bottas was also closing in on them, and when he pitted to cover Max Verstappen on lap 33, Ferrari panicked a little and called Raikkonen in for his stop on the next lap. Ferrari did this because he was losing time and was worried that Bottas could potentially leapfrog both cars.

    All sorts of conspiracy theories came out of that strategy call, but when released from being behind Raikkonen it was Vettel who earned the win. He hammered in fastest lap after fastest lap on his used ultra-soft tyres, while Kimi didn't, or couldn't, make use of his fresh super-soft tyres. Vettel did enough over those few laps to remain in the lead after his own pitstop, and that was Monaco 2017 done and dusted.



    To put it bluntly, Raikkonen just wasn't quick enough when he had to be to win the race. By regulation you have to do at least one pitstop. The Ferrari call might have been a bit too reactive, or too early, but it was for the right reasons because Kimi had given away his potential undercut cushion by losing time prior to the stops.

    The same sort of thing happened to Verstappen and Ricciardo in the Red Bulls. Verstappen, running fourth, pitted on lap 32. He was the first car in and had a relatively slow stop. Mercedes covered that by pitting Bottas on the next lap. Ricciardo hammered in a few quick laps, pitted on lap 38, and jumped both Bottas and Verstappen, leaving Verstappen with a red mist.

    Monaco is a race where, if you don't have to stop you shouldn't, or at the very least you shouldn't stop early. Track position is everything, and on many occasions drivers have won in Monaco in slower cars by just not making mistakes. The current regulations of having to use two compounds of tyre make it just a bit more difficult, so strategy calls can make or break a good result.

    At a circuit like Monaco, where track position is everything and the Pirelli tyres could go the full race distance without any problems, why would any team call its driver in early?

    For me, the best strategy would have been to run as late as possible, hoping that a virtual safety car or a real safety car would appear for you could to make use of to reduce your pitstop time loss.

    The lap times were just getting faster as the race went on, so you didn't have to be a brain surgeon to work out that it was highly unlikely the undercut was going to work. I, for one, wouldn't have been the first one into the pits in that race.



    Besides Raikkonen, there were three very obvious lessons that we learned from Monaco, and I hope the powers that be noticed them as well. With all the talk about how Formula 1 is going to be transformed with Liberty Media in charge, these are the things they and Ross Brawn in particular need to be thinking about.

    First, the accident that Force India driver Esteban Ocon had in Saturday morning practice when he clipped the barrier on the inside of the second part of Swimming Pool and hit the wall at the exit of the corner.

    The front of his car got caught under the safety barrier at the exit of the corner. Now this was in a relatively low-speed corner, so in itself was not a problem. But one of these days someone will submarine underneath a barrier or, more likely, another car.

    This has been a problem for several years. A much more serious example of this was seen during practice for the Russian Grand Prix in 2015, when Carlos Sainz Jr crashed at Turn 4 and his low nose pushed the Tecpro barrier over the front of the car and let him have a 46g impact with the Armco barrier. That was a clear warning that hasn't been taken seriously.

    The move towards low noses was triggered by accidents like the one that led to Mark Webber being launched into the air after hitting the back of Heikki Kovalainen's Lotus at Valencia in 2010. But the problem is that the energy in a crash has to go somewhere.

    And it's not just hitting barriers. What happens when a car stalls on the grid and gets hit in the rear by another car? That's the kind of accident that we've all seen plenty of times over the years, and if the nose does go under the rear of the car in front then the risk is the driver's head ends up close to the crash structure.



    If it were down to me, I would put all the crash structures - front, rear and side - at wheel axle height which would be around 35cm from the ground. At least that way they are all at the same height, so the chance of submarining under another car would be dramatically reduced. Any nose-to-wheel contact would be at the level of the wheel centre, in effect allowing all the suspension members take the impact.

    The second lesson is that these car regulations, which were intended to 'make the racing better', are probably the worst I have ever seen as far as cars being able to follow each other closely.

    Monaco is a slow circuit with mechanical grip carrying the emphasis, but still to get within a second-and-a-half of another car is a problem. Let's not kid ourselves, the only reason the racing is better is that Mercedes has thankfully screwed up this year. Ferrari has also done a good job and looks pretty good on all circuits, so we have two teams capable of winning races.

    So it's nothing to do with the regulations, nothing to do with the wider tyres, the increasingly complicated aerodynamics. It's simply having two teams with a similar level of performance. It never made sense to improve the racing by allowing these hugely complicated multi-element front wings to continue to be used, but they are still there. The worst thing will be if F1 decides the changed rules are the reason for the improved racing.

    Like I say with a car, if you have a problem you need to understand the reasons for it and why what you are going to change is going to fix it. What you can't do is change something and decide that is the thing that's made the difference when it's something else entirely.

    The third thing is something that you don't hear so much about today, the brake-by-wire system. This was brought in with the V6 turbo hybrid engines in 2014 and was done because of the complexity of the Energy Recovery System.



    But in FP3, Ricciardo had a failure at Ste Devote. A brake-by-wire failure is still a brake failure, so this is something serious we are talking about. I know failures will always happen, but for me this system is too critical.

    The standard brake system without assistance should be adequate to stop the car. Having the ERS as the main retardation system on the rear axle is fine, but there needs to be more adequate redundancy in the system available in the event of a failure.

    When the driver is using the brakes, the ERS is harvesting energy from the MGU-K, depending on the amount of battery charge required a control valve allows a certain amount of brake pedal-induced fluid pressure through to the more or less standard rear braking system.

    If the ERS requires a high battery charge then very little pressure is let through, if it requires very little battery charge then a high percentage of the braking pressure is allowed through. In reality it will always require something, so to save weight the F1 designers design the rear braking system using smaller components that are inadequate to use as a braking system if the ERS was to completely fail.

    A simple way to carry out a braking system adequacy test would be at the end of P1 to require every driver to do a straight line retardation test from high to low speed with and without the use of MGU-H harvesting, the stopping distance would need to be within a certain percentage.

    However it was probably a failure in the control valve or the control valve signal that meant the system just didn't work and Ricciardo had no brakes. Either way I would hate it to happen if I was heading down to Turn 1 at Monza especially on the first lap with half a dozen cars in front of me.

  19. #979
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    From the Autosport article just above:

    "To put it bluntly, Raikkonen just wasn't quick enough when he had to be to win the race. By regulation you have to do at least one pitstop. The Ferrari call might have been a bit too reactive, or too early, but it was for the right reasons because Kimi had given away his potential undercut cushion by losing time prior to the stops."

    Emphasis mine.

  20. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    "Yes" is the correct word. Rubenizing Kimi to cover Bottas and Verstappen is a Ferrari tradition. The results being a 1, 2 finish!! Points galore ! Fans have to keep in mind Kimi 2nd dosen't mean get rid of him for not winning a race. Does anyone here remember " Hey Abbott! who's on first? Seb! Who's on second? Kimi!
    1. Pole sitter gets priority, pole sitter = first to pit
    2. Not Vettel's fault if he had 2 blistering laps prior to pitting to overtake Kimi after his pitstop.
    3. Not Vettel's fault if Kimi did not build enough of a gap against his team mate before he pitted.
    4. Vettel did not win two races this season because of wrong timing/strategy, but he lived with the results.
    5. END OF.

  21. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by da_one View Post
    1. Pole sitter gets priority, pole sitter = first to pit
    2. Not Vettel's fault if he had 2 blistering laps prior to pitting to overtake Kimi after his pitstop.
    3. Not Vettel's fault if Kimi did not build enough of a gap against his team mate before he pitted.
    4. Vettel did not win two races this season because of wrong timing/strategy, but he lived with the results.
    5. END OF.
    1. In China vet would have won, if he wouldn't have behind Kimi & ric most of the time. But he didn't raise his disappointment after the race.

    2. Even in Barcelona he would have won, if pit crew would have given him good strategy by choosing mediums in 2nd stint. Or if there was no safety car.

  22. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by da_one View Post
    1. Pole sitter gets priority, pole sitter = first to pit
    2. Not Vettel's fault if he had 2 blistering laps prior to pitting to overtake Kimi after his pitstop.
    3. Not Vettel's fault if Kimi did not build enough of a gap against his team mate before he pitted.
    4. Vettel did not win two races this season because of wrong timing/strategy, but he lived with the results.
    5. END OF.

    1. Monaco is all about the undercut in todays current cars.

    2. agree

    3. ditto

    4. "thats an afirm houston!"

    5. conclusion: Kimi was slow and has take one for the team. Maybe more to come.

  23. #983
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    Still debating over 1-2 win in Monaco!?!?!? Really?!?!?!? I cannot believe!!!!!

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    This is very important to discuss. If there really was a teamorder, that's a disgrace for the sport. Remember back in Schumacher days. That was horrible.
    This is not gonna be a good asset to the sport and the brand Ferrari. Besides if we want to win the WCC we want a good an motivated Kimi.
    You are not gonna motivate him being no.1 in a race and send him back in traffic. Basically as a team you're saying you are no.2. Who would want that??? Well maybe for the money :) But the guy has enough money. Just let them race. The WDC is just a long shot.

    that's just my opinion.

  25. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forza Kimi View Post
    This is very important to discuss. If there really was a teamorder, that's a disgrace for the sport. Remember back in Schumacher days. That was horrible.
    This is not gonna be a good asset to the sport and the brand Ferrari. Besides if we want to win the WCC we want a good an motivated Kimi.
    You are not gonna motivate him being no.1 in a race and send him back in traffic. Basically as a team you're saying you are no.2. Who would want that??? Well maybe for the money :) But the guy has enough money. Just let them race. The WDC is just a long shot.

    that's just my opinion.
    Jesus Christ! They HAD to send him into traffic. This is Monaco, not Spa. If he Kimi didn't go into pits at that lap, two laps later he would encounter Erricson in Sauber all while lapping 17s and Ricciardo lapping 16 dead. Generally, that kind of traffic (backmarker) is not a problem when your lead is 3-4s as it should be. When you only have DRS zone advantage over your teammate, then 3-4 tenths slower pit stop can cost you 1st place and that is all on Kimi.

    Good thing he is smiling with Seb yesterday at game as he must have seen the data and laps Seb was doing (along with lap he was in traffic with Erricson).

  26. #986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forza Kimi View Post
    This is very important to discuss. If there really was a teamorder, that's a disgrace for the sport. Remember back in Schumacher days. That was horrible.
    This is not gonna be a good asset to the sport and the brand Ferrari. Besides if we want to win the WCC we want a good an motivated Kimi.
    You are not gonna motivate him being no.1 in a race and send him back in traffic. Basically as a team you're saying you are no.2. Who would want that??? Well maybe for the money :) But the guy has enough money. Just let them race. The WDC is just a long shot.

    that's just my opinion.
    They did let them race, which is why Vettel won.

    Adrian Newey on his teams strategy in Monaco: - "It wasn't clear before the race which was more powerful, the undercut or the overcut. The undercut got the warm-up on the first lap, the overcut depends on you having more natural pace.

    Alain Prost:- "Both drivers are able to be ahead, even Kimi Raikkonen, so I do not believe there is a number 1 driver in the team .....I would just say that Sebastian is a notch above as he is very consistent and will be very hard to beat."

    Jean Alesi:- "I can understand Kimi's disappointment -- he had a great weekend. But Vettel won with a clear victory. It reminded me a bit of the final at Roland-Garros: when one wins, the other is always unhappy. But everything was decided on the track. The team did nothing to favour a driver and I have nothing to add."

  27. #987
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    I cant believe what i am reading here, for so many years we dreamed of one thing and one thing only and that was to have a car that could win races and be a real contender for the Championships. This weekend we had the most amazing race with a 1-2 finish for Ferrari!!! Who gives a **** which driver came where and what the team did, if they switched or did not switch. The only thing that truly matters here is that the team have come alive and are delivering everything we have dreamed of, wins wins and more wins. The car looks amazing and is the envy of every team on the grid it is now leading both Championships, in my personal opinion that is all that matters! Lets all just enjoy this moment as it has been a looooong time coming.
    Last edited by Rob; 3rd June 2017 at 10:29.

  28. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by No1.FerrariFan! View Post
    I cant believe what i am reading here, for so many years we dreamed of one thing and one thing only and that was to have a car that could win races and be a real contender for the Championships. This weekend we had the most amazing race with a 1-2 finish for Ferrari!!! Who gives a **** which driver came where and what the team did, if they switched or did not switch. The only thing that truly matters here is that the team have come alive and are delivering everything we have dreamed of, wins wins and more wins. The car looks amazing and is the envy of every team on the grid it is now leading both Championships, in my personal opinion that is all that matters! Lets all just enjoy this moment as it has been a looooong time coming.
    That's what I don't get either. Ferrari and its fans have endured a long drought without titles. Now that they have a competitive car, some so-called 'Ferrari fans'
    still manage to find stuff to complain about. It's either the team got the strategy wrong, or how Kimi should be replaced, or how disgusting the team is after Kimi ended up second even if it's a Ferrari 1-2, or blah blah blah, or yada yada yada. Really, it's getting sad already.
    Last edited by Rob; 3rd June 2017 at 10:29.

  29. #989
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    The answer is..... Ferrari must replace the #2 driver asap. Replace him with the #1 driver and make #2, #1!! Then interview and compare the new #2s comments against the former who is now #1. Then after a few 1,2s switch back. WCC in the bag for Ferrari and WDC up for grabs. Ferrari needs to get Briatore in the mix.

  30. #990
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    Kimi at a football game (after monaco gp) , did he lose weight ? he looks so fit in here . He scored a hattrick

    https://youtu.be/g8IfNUb8Hmc

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