Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

[nani_s23]

It's up to the driver to respond before and after a pitstop - if he's going faster with the new tyres, then he will be rewarded with position. On the other hand, if a driver can go faster when suddenly in free air, then he will also be rewarded. We could have had exactly the reverse strategy with both drivers but to end up with the same outcome; Vetted may have pitted first and then set blistering laps on fresh rubber, whilst Kim was ignored and told to soldier on with old rubber at a much slower pace. Can you see what's happened? Kimi had the chance to set top pace on fresh rubber but didn't! Yet, Vettel was the fastest of all on old rubber, which Kimi failed to do on the same tyres in clear air! Kimi would have also had tyres in better condition as he was not in the wake of a car in front. Vettel had everything against him: stopped later and stayed out on tyres with higher degradation. He did not break protocol - he did to Kimi what he did to Lewis at Albert Park. Like I said, if the strategy was reversed, I bet Vettel would have still won by being the fastest on new tyres, whilst Kimi was straggling his Ferrari around the circuit like a shopping trolley. Had that been the case, then the knives would have been out saying Vettel was given advantage by pitting early for fresh rubber.

I'm not anti Kim (I tipped him for pole and wanted him to win), I just wanted to set the record straight from my point of view. I believe Kimi's biggest issue is not his speed, but his race fitness - salute!

Yes. In this season so far, vettel has superior race pace over kimi. When at times Vettel was setting FL's i wonder why kimi couldn't do that.
I think this season will be down to the driver in that car which gives extra edge.
Which is where bottas is exceeding expectations, lewis is struggling, Vettel is enjoying alot more.

[jgonzalesm6]

Martin Brundle

"The power lies with the teams. I'm not going to sit on the fence, if I was Ferrari with one driver facing a six-point lead over a struggling Hamilton and 55 point lead over his team-mate,

I would have seized the opportunity to maximise the advantage.

But it's so early in the season, I hear many say. That's not relevant, world championship points are purely numerical and carry no timeline or emotion when added up at the end of the

season. Early team strategy calls can come back to haunt you if one driver subsequently has a string of problems or hurts himself but that's the risk you have to take."

Its what alot of us have been saying on this thread.......sorry Kimi.

[Schumiklub]

What's wrong with people? We have a first 1-2 in years and people are debating on who should have won?! I don't care as long as we are winning. Kimi had a chance to pull away, he didn't, so he lost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jax]

Full post race analysis with the brits

part 1 : https://youtu.be/bPQAbej6fJM
part 2 : https://youtu.be/jGAg4uJDxLk
part 3 : https://youtu.be/JN-KdxAe2FA

[SS454]

I hope everybody read this

I will try to predict what would happen if Ferrari stopped Vettel first and then Kimi in the next lap .. And because that doesn't happen I will depend on the data from Max and Bottas .. Also i will use the same pit stop times that vettel and kimi did during the race

1- In case of Max and Bottas when Max pitted he was behind Bottas by 1.3s .. And after Bottas pitted Max was behind by 0.630 (they were both pushing really hard) .. That means that Max was faster by 0.670 in that single lap .. But that wasn't really the case because the pit stop of Bottas (24.308) was way faster than the pit stop of Max (25.343) .. It was faster by 1.035s .. That means that in that single lap Max was faster than Bottas by 1.705s (1.035 + 0.670)

2- Now in the case of Vettel and Kimi .. When Kimi pitted Vettel was behind by 1.238s .. So now if Vettel was the one to pit and Kimi in the next lap .. and assuming that the difference in speed will be equal to that of Max and Bottas .. Then Vettel should have ended in front of Kimi by 0.467s assuming that they both had the exact same pit stop time (1.705 - 1.238) .. But if we added the real difference in the pit stops between Kimi (24.833) and Vettel (24.306) which is 0.527s .. Then Vettel would have ended in front of Kimi by 0.994s (in that scenario they both would have nearly the same circumstances .. vettel would exit the pit behind Wehrlein .. while kimi would have Ericsson in front of him . So they would have both backmarkers in that lap) .

Conclusion : with the overcut or the undercut or any cut in the world Vettel would have ended first .. Because he was simply a lot faster

N.B : In this scenario I assumed that the difference in speed between Kimi and Vettel would have been identical to that of max and bottas .. While in reality it should be way more than that .. Because Vettel on his used ultrasoft was waaaay faster than max when they were both pushing .. that means that Vettel would also have been faster than Max in the new supersoft for both of them .. But any way it won't matter .. Vettel was going to be first in all cases .

That's ridiculous to compare the difference in outlap of Max in a RBR vs Bottas in Merc. Kimi and Seb had the same car. The actual difference between Kimi and Seb was -0.868 for Seb. However, it's worth noting that Kimi got put directly into traffic, so even that's not a fair comparison.

So 1.238 - 0.868 and Kimi is still in front by nearly half a second.

[stefa]

What's wrong with people? We have a first 1-2 in years and people are debating on who should have won?! I don't care as long as we are winning. Kimi had a chance to pull away, he didn't, so he lost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly

[Tifoso]

What's wrong with people? We have a first 1-2 in years and people are debating on who should have won?! I don't care as long as we are winning. Kimi had a chance to pull away, he didn't, so he lost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Simple as that. Agree 100%, fratello.

[erinha]

Overcut at certain circuits has been mentioned as an option over the years but it's very rarely worked anyway. Even at those circuits teams still give priority to undercut.

Here's a race strategy analysis report: https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/...-monaco-f1-gp/

It also says that Vettel would have definitely ended up ahead if they had given him the undercut. It actually says the overcut wasn't as clear cut as some believe and that those two 1.15 laps are what put Vettel ahead.

[Fireblade]

That's ridiculous to compare the difference in outlap of Max in a RBR vs Bottas in Merc. Kimi and Seb had the same car. The actual difference between Kimi and Seb was -0.868 for Seb. However, it's worth noting that Kimi got put directly into traffic, so even that's not a fair comparison.

So 1.238 - 0.868 and Kimi is still in front by nearly half a second.

Kimi's problem is that while at his quickest he's nearly as fast as the best drivers, he seems to lack the mental and physical stamina to drive very fast for long periods. The typical Kimi race (and Monaco is an example of this) involves him showing bursts of real speed mixed in with long periods of being well off the pace.

People are claiming that he was put on "the slower tire" and "dropped into traffic"". In fact by far his quickest pace of the race came immediately after he took on the super-softs and was supposedly "dropped into traffic". While leading the race and on ultra-softs he was frankly slow. He was holding up Seb to an unacceptable degree and putting the 1-2 finish into jeopardy.

In 2014 he was trounced by Alonso. But Nando never took a fastest lap that year, while Kimi did. Maybe Ferrari can put him on a program to build up his mental and physical endurance? He's second on the all time list of fastest lap winners, I don't think his speed is in question. But he has to be able to perform at that level for more than just a handful of laps per race if he wants to win races.

I think this list of lap times by driver illustrates what I'm saying.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...stian%20Vettel

[Rob]

Kimi's problem is that while at his quickest he's nearly as fast as the best drivers, he seems to lack the mental and physical stamina to drive very fast for long periods. The typical Kimi race (and Monaco is an example of this) involves him showing bursts of real speed mixed in with long periods of being well off the pace.

People are claiming that he was put on "the slower tire" and "dropped into traffic"". In fact by far his quickest pace of the race came immediately after he took on the super-softs and was supposedly "dropped into traffic". While leading the race and on ultra-softs he was frankly slow. He was holding up Seb to an unacceptable degree and putting the 1-2 finish into jeopardy.

In 2014 he was trounced by Alonso. But Nando never took a fastest lap that year, while Kimi did. Maybe Ferrari can put him on a program to build up his mental and physical endurance? He's second on the all time list of fastest lap winners, I don't think his speed is in question. But he has to be able to perform at that level for more than just a handful of laps per race if he wants to win races.

I think this list of lap times by driver illustrates what I'm saying.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...stian%20Vettel

Its nothing to do with his "mental and physical" state. Kimi, is a driver that has a very slim window. As soon as tyre temps, or track temp changes that may effect how he feels the car.

[Tony]

Did the media have this much adverse coverage of Mercedes when Bottas moved over for Hamilton twice in the same race? Just asking.... I feel there's quite a bit of hypocrisy right now from their direction.

[stefa]

Whit all this talk about conspiracy theory about KR possible win in Monaco,days after race, I can only conclude, that some volks have PLANTY of free time

Guys just enjoy our 1-2!!!

[SS454]

Kimi's problem is that while at his quickest he's nearly as fast as the best drivers, he seems to lack the mental and physical stamina to drive very fast for long periods. The typical Kimi race (and Monaco is an example of this) involves him showing bursts of real speed mixed in with long periods of being well off the pace.

People are claiming that he was put on "the slower tire" and "dropped into traffic"". In fact by far his quickest pace of the race came immediately after he took on the super-softs and was supposedly "dropped into traffic". While leading the race and on ultra-softs he was frankly slow. He was holding up Seb to an unacceptable degree and putting the 1-2 finish into jeopardy.

In 2014 he was trounced by Alonso. But Nando never took a fastest lap that year, while Kimi did. Maybe Ferrari can put him on a program to build up his mental and physical endurance? He's second on the all time list of fastest lap winners, I don't think his speed is in question. But he has to be able to perform at that level for more than just a handful of laps per race if he wants to win races.

I think this list of lap times by driver illustrates what I'm saying.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...stian%20Vettel

It's not a claim, its a fact. He was put on Super Softs which are slower, and his out lap and second lap was directly hindered by traffic. The real head scratcher would be those that believe Kimi was seriously almost 2 seconds slower than Vettel on equal tires. That's laughable. If Kimi was told to push instead of pit, he'd be in the low 16s, if not 15s as well. Kimi is never a stranger to saying his tires are shot and needs to pit. He didn't say a word about tires, or that his car was slow. Plus Pirelli said the Ultra Softs could have likely lasted the whole race, he didn't have tire wear problems that was making him run 1:17s flat out.

I think almost everyone could agree that Vettel had faster race pace than Kimi, but Ferrari's unnecessary reaction pitstop likely lost him the race.

[darkchild]

Ferraris pit stop was very necessary. What happens if they dont pit for say 3 laps, they pass the box and SC comes out? Bye bye 1-2 thats what happens.

[Aberracus]

Ferraris pit stop was very necessary. What happens if they dont pit for say 3 laps, they pass the box and SC comes out? Bye bye 1-2 thats what happens.

That's super true, stop critiquing Ferrari for something that didn't happen and enjoy Ferrari 1-2 victory, these Kimi fans are incredible.



Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk

[killer]

Did the media have this much adverse coverage of Mercedes when Bottas moved over for Hamilton twice in the same race? Just asking.... I feel there's quite a bit of hypocrisy right now from their direction.

I don't usually get on his case but Croft's commentary was especially sensationalist this time around. I don't think there was anything he said that didn't end with "did Ferrari switch Raikkonen and Vettel?"

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferraris pit stop was very necessary. What happens if they dont pit for say 3 laps, they pass the box and SC comes out? Bye bye 1-2 thats what happens.

It was a good call for a number of reasons: 1.) as you mentioned above 2.) tyres per the FIA rule, change em out and go the rest of the distance(Pirelli article stating that one

of the compounds will go the whole race 3.) Kimi was slowing down Seb after the pit stop Kimi could not catch up to Seb...hence overall Kimi was slow. 4.) Vettel needs as

many pts when-ever, where-ever and how-ever he can get it over the long-term as the season progresses to distance himself from Lewis.

That's super true, stop critiquing Ferrari for something that didn't happen and enjoy Ferrari 1-2 victory, these Kimi fans are incredible.


Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk

yup...Kimi gets paid $7 million per year Vettel $40 million....HELLO people !!!!!. Kimi has to be the good soldier that he is and take one or two or HOW-EVER many for the

TEAM!!!!!

[mandzipop]

It's not a claim, its a fact. He was put on Super Softs which are slower, and his out lap and second lap was directly hindered by traffic. The real head scratcher would be those that believe Kimi was seriously almost 2 seconds slower than Vettel on equal tires. That's laughable. If Kimi was told to push instead of pit, he'd be in the low 16s, if not 15s as well. Kimi is never a stranger to saying his tires are shot and needs to pit. He didn't say a word about tires, or that his car was slow. Plus Pirelli said the Ultra Softs could have likely lasted the whole race, he didn't have tire wear problems that was making him run 1:17s flat out.

I think almost everyone could agree that Vettel had faster race pace than Kimi, but Ferrari's unnecessary reaction pitstop likely lost him the race.

Kimi was told to push 5 laps before he pitted.

[Aberracus]

If kimi and VET stayed out, the risk of a SC coming and if we pitted after that mixing in the traffic was too great.
We needed to pit, Kim was leader he needed to pit first.
That's all the story


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[vcs316]

ESPN rounds up the best soundbites from the Monaco Grand Prix as Sebastian Vettel beat teammate Kimi Raikkonen to victory.

"Jenson, my friend. I'm sure you wanted to hear my voice before starting the race. I just wanted to wish you the best of luck. We followed you here on television and you did amazing yesterday, so yeah, please have fun my friend and take care of my car."
"Oh thank you! OK, I'm gonna pee in your seat!"
"No! Don't please! You did amazing yesterday, amazing job."
"And you buddy, and you. Have a good one."

- Live from Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Fernando Alonso starts to regret giving Jenson Button his car for the Monaco Grand Prix.


"The rears are overheating [on the lap to the grid], I don't know how long I'm going to able to make it last. But they are definitely going to be overheating."

- While sitting on the grid, Lewis Hamilton doesn't fancy his chances of making a long first stint work. In the end he managed to go to lap 46 on the same set.

"Every time I push I almost go in the wall. So difficult to drive this car. No grip!"

- Marcus Ericsson struggles to keep his Sauber out of the barriers.

"Oh, this is painful."

- The reality of racing at Monaco comes flooding back to Button as he gets stuck behind Pascal Wehrlein following an early pit stop

"Are we boxing yet?"
"Box this lap, Kimi. Box, box"

- Kimi Raikkonen gets the call to pit early, releasing Sebastian Vettel for a series of quick laps that ultimately won him the race.

"Did Daniel stop?"
"Yes Max. Daniel has unfortunately jumped us both."
"What a [censored] [censored] disaster."

- Max Verstappen makes his feelings clear after his strategy sees him shuffled behind teammate Daniel Ricciardo in the pit stops.

"Are you OK?"
"Yeah, but obviously I would be better if I could jump out."

- Wehrlein talks from the cockpit of his overturned Sauber. He managed to walk away without injury minutes later.

"Guys, you really want me to crash, huh? Stop f------ around. I need to 100 per cent focus."

- Fed up of being coached from the pit wall, Sergio Perez asks for radio silence in his Force India. A few laps later he crashed into Daniil Kvyat.

"And if you're comfortable, Strat 6..."
"Does it look comfortable?"

- Mercedes engineer Tony Ross tells Valtteri Bottas to select a lower engine mode if he is confident he can keep Verstappen on fresher tyres at bay.

"Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The two laps with old tyres, I was giving everything I had. Grazie."

- Vettel points to his laps in clear air after Raikkonen's pit stop as the ones that won him the Monaco Grand Prix.

[da_one]

If kimi and VET stayed out, the risk of a SC coming and if we pitted after that mixing in the traffic was too great.
We needed to pit, Kim was leader he needed to pit first.
That's all the story


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Agree. Monaco is a track where the SC comes out 80% of the time. At the end of the day, Ferrari needed to react to Bottas or Verstappen's pitstop in the event that (which was a certainty if you ask me) the SC car would come out. During the race, I was actually screaming for Ferrari to cover Max or Val so as not to get caught out by the SC. It was an easy call for the team, and talks of team orders or the team's preference for a Vettel win is absurd.

[jgonzalesm6]

ESPN rounds up the best soundbites from the Monaco Grand Prix as Sebastian Vettel beat teammate Kimi Raikkonen to victory.

"Jenson, my friend. I'm sure you wanted to hear my voice before starting the race. I just wanted to wish you the best of luck. We followed you here on television and you did amazing yesterday, so yeah, please have fun my friend and take care of my car."
"Oh thank you! OK, I'm gonna pee in your seat!"
"No! Don't please! You did amazing yesterday, amazing job."
"And you buddy, and you. Have a good one."

- Live from Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Fernando Alonso starts to regret giving Jenson Button his car for the Monaco Grand Prix.


"The rears are overheating [on the lap to the grid], I don't know how long I'm going to able to make it last. But they are definitely going to be overheating."

- While sitting on the grid, Lewis Hamilton doesn't fancy his chances of making a long first stint work. In the end he managed to go to lap 46 on the same set.

"Every time I push I almost go in the wall. So difficult to drive this car. No grip!"

- Marcus Ericsson struggles to keep his Sauber out of the barriers.

"Oh, this is painful."

- The reality of racing at Monaco comes flooding back to Button as he gets stuck behind Pascal Wehrlein following an early pit stop

"Are we boxing yet?"
"Box this lap, Kimi. Box, box"

- Kimi Raikkonen gets the call to pit early, releasing Sebastian Vettel for a series of quick laps that ultimately won him the race.

"Did Daniel stop?"
"Yes Max. Daniel has unfortunately jumped us both."
"What a [censored] [censored] disaster."

- Max Verstappen makes his feelings clear after his strategy sees him shuffled behind teammate Daniel Ricciardo in the pit stops.

"Are you OK?"
"Yeah, but obviously I would be better if I could jump out."

- Wehrlein talks from the cockpit of his overturned Sauber. He managed to walk away without injury minutes later.

"Guys, you really want me to crash, huh? Stop f------ around. I need to 100 per cent focus."

- Fed up of being coached from the pit wall, Sergio Perez asks for radio silence in his Force India. A few laps later he crashed into Daniil Kvyat.

"And if you're comfortable, Strat 6..."
"Does it look comfortable?"

- Mercedes engineer Tony Ross tells Valtteri Bottas to select a lower engine mode if he is confident he can keep Verstappen on fresher tyres at bay.

"Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The two laps with old tyres, I was giving everything I had. Grazie."

- Vettel points to his laps in clear air after Raikkonen's pit stop as the ones that won him the Monaco Grand Prix.

2017 Monaco Grand Prix: Best Of Team Radio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMCFGQGX8eQ&t=2s

[SS454]

So now Kimi was pitted to avoid a SC.

Seems it's acceptable to talk about things that didn't happen, but not to point out the things that did. Pitting Kimi when they did cost him the win based on what we know and did happen. Can't say 100% certainty because it's possible Vettel gets him anyways during their regular scheduled pitstops.

I personally really didn't like the media claiming it was a manufactured swap done by team orders. 1, no way that could be team orders in such a reactive situation. 2, team orders are allowed. So far each race they've been asking Toto if they've officially decided Lewis will be #1, suggesting that no matter what the team needs to focus on his best result and screw Bottas. Hypocrites.

[fmatiasii]

yawn.......

[darkchild]

It was up to Kimi to make a buffer to Seb, they called him 1st because that was agreement night before and because his direct competitors pitted few laps before.

Please stop with consipiracy stuff, even Kimi asked "are we pitting yet?". What more do you want?

[Brembo]

What more do you want?

A Kimi, Seb 1, 2 on the podium in Canada !

[Ed Harley]

"Box this lap, Kimi. Box, box"
Did that come as a surprise and was that why Greenwood and Kimi were furious?

[Jax]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...alonso-912686/

[darkchild]

"Box this lap, Kimi. Box, box"
Did that come as a surprise and was that why Greenwood and Kimi were furious?

Who said Greenwood was furious? He may have been unhappy given that this was closest to win Kimi got and he would have been on podium as well, but some jurno reporting on body language of another guy doesnt make it truth.

And no, it didnt come as surprise, Kimi asked "Are we boxing yet?" To which Greenwood replying "Yes, box this lap Kimi. Box,box"

[da_one]

So now Kimi was pitted to avoid a SC.

Seems it's acceptable to talk about things that didn't happen, but not to point out the things that did. Pitting Kimi when they did cost him the win based on what we know and did happen. Can't say 100% certainty because it's possible Vettel gets him anyways during their regular scheduled pitstops.

I personally really didn't like the media claiming it was a manufactured swap done by team orders. 1, no way that could be team orders in such a reactive situation. 2, team orders are allowed. So far each race they've been asking Toto if they've officially decided Lewis will be #1, suggesting that no matter what the team needs to focus on his best result and screw Bottas. Hypocrites.

Yes pitting Kimi to cover Bottas and Verstappen cost him the win, but not the 1-2. These are the breaks in the race, even Vettel got the short end of the stick twice this season because of it. At the end of the day, You have to account for everything and covering rivals is part of the strategy in every race.