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Thread: Austrian GP 2017 - Race

  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    okay, maybe not after the lights but at the same time the lights went out.....0.201 reaction time...can't get more perfect than that.
    Post race, Anthony Davidson showed frame by frame footage and the front tires started to move at exactly the same time as the red lights went out. 1 frame is not 0.201 seconds, we're talking milliseconds. Another report is saying 0.033 seconds. It's somewhat alarming that F1's published data (on tv) is so far from reality, but that's another issue. It is humanly impossible to react to 0.033 seconds, which means Bottas hit go before the lights went out.

    IF the rules allow for anticipating the lights, then it's 100% legal. However Brundle announced that anticipating the lights is not allowed, as the FIA want a fair human reaction. Not that anyone should be able to anticipate the lights, as the lights off sequence is completely random.

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Post race, Anthony Davidson showed frame by frame footage and the front tires started to move at exactly the same time as the red lights went out. 1 frame is not 0.201 seconds, we're talking milliseconds. Another report is saying 0.033 seconds. It's somewhat alarming that F1's published data (on tv) is so far from reality, but that's another issue. It is humanly impossible to react to 0.033 seconds, which means Bottas hit go before the lights went out.

    IF the rules allow for anticipating the lights, then it's 100% legal. However Brundle announced that anticipating the lights is not allowed, as the FIA want a fair human reaction. Not that anyone should be able to anticipate the lights, as the lights off sequence is completely random.
    The FIA has explained, however, that some movement before the lights go out is allowed because of the need occasionally for drivers to make adjustments to their clutch in those crucial moments before the start.

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    The FIA has explained, however, that some movement before the lights go out is allowed because of the need occasionally for drivers to make adjustments to their clutch in those crucial moments before the start.
    That rule is for slight jerks and stops. Bottas' initial movement his start. It wasn't a clutch check, roll forward, gear selection, etc. It was his launch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNgxRzzKuMM

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    That rule is for slight jerks and stops. Bottas' initial movement his start. It wasn't a clutch check, roll forward, gear selection, etc. It was his launch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNgxRzzKuMM
    he was rocking back and forth, getting the bite pt just right....here is a better view with the light bar next to the wheel....you can see the wheel rock back and forth just ever so

    slightly....until he times it perfectly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvxqjrQr7LE


    Bottas escaped jump start penalty thanks to FIA tolerances

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...ia-fia-928763/

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    he was rocking back and forth, getting the bite pt just right....here is a better view with the light bar next to the wheel....you can see the wheel rock back and forth just ever so

    slightly....until he times it perfectly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvxqjrQr7LE


    Bottas escaped jump start penalty thanks to FIA tolerances

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...ia-fia-928763/
    Good video to show the rocking that you mention, but to me that isn't the issue. FIA says that's okay, and I'm okay with that too.

    It's still the impossible reaction to the lights on his actual start. Formula 1's expert broadcaster says drivers can't anticipate the lights, otherwise its considered a jump start. I can't say for fact or not if thats legal or not, I'm not the expert on the rule book. The one in the know suggests it's not legal and therefore a false start. IF by the rules it is legal as long as the car's movement is +.00x after the timing lights shut off, then there is no issue, just bloody good luck for Bottas. Bottas reacted before the lights went out, so he easily could have gotten an official jump start, but his reaction time was positive.

  6. #786
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    Everyone needs to stop digging for a penalty. We didn't win today - accept it. Bottas didn't jump the start, and if it were Seb or Kimi everyone would be FURIOUS that it was being investigated, or that people were talking about it.

    I agree that it was pure chance, but Bottas simply made a perfect start. Cool. Now on to the next race!

  7. #787
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    The video is nothing but splitting hairs. Here are Bottas' comments about his start today:

    http://www.crash.net/f1/news/269051/...-pays-off.html

    He admits to gambling (anticipating) with his start today having paid attention to the fact that, according to him, while there is variance between how long the lights are all on before they go out for an F1 start, he has noticed that the variance race-to-race is very small. The question now is whether or not F1 will start to vary the time between lights on and lights off to a larger degree to prevent more successful gambles like Bottas had today.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Silverstone should be good, we should be very strong in S1,S2. We were the quickest in high speed corners again in Austria, so with the new engine I think we will come strong. Damm my only wish is a 1-2 for Ferrari for that race.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red is Best View Post
    Given Raikonnen's recent form, I wouldn't count on it. If anything I expect RB to be even closer in Britain.
    I'm looking forward to a strong performance in Silverstone, but agree that Red Bull is making progress and should be closer by then. It will be tight for the top 3 cars performance-wise, so drivers will need to shine. We can't keep counting on Verstappen's bad luck; Kimi will have to make sure he is awake Saturday and Sunday.

  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    he was rocking back and forth, getting the bite pt just right....here is a better view with the light bar next to the wheel....you can see the wheel rock back and forth just ever so

    slightly....until he times it perfectly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvxqjrQr7LE


    Bottas escaped jump start penalty thanks to FIA tolerances

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...ia-fia-928763/
    That's a jump start. I don't see what's there to argue. He rolls back, but then he rolls forward, with the lights still on, and just keeps going as the light go off. If Charlie had delay the start by a tenth, the FIA would've had a hard time justifying this. It's almost like the FIA is reluctant to give Sebastian a break. Would they have made the same call with a RB in 2nd place?

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    Everyone needs to stop digging for a penalty. We didn't win today - accept it. Bottas didn't jump the start, and if it were Seb or Kimi everyone would be FURIOUS that it was being investigated, or that people were talking about it.

    I agree that it was pure chance, but Bottas simply made a perfect start. Cool. Now on to the next race!

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    Post race, Anthony Davidson showed frame by frame footage and the front tires started to move at exactly the same time as the red lights went out. 1 frame is not 0.201 seconds, we're talking milliseconds. Another report is saying 0.033 seconds. It's somewhat alarming that F1's published data (on tv) is so far from reality, but that's another issue. It is humanly impossible to react to 0.033 seconds, which means Bottas hit go before the lights went out.

    IF the rules allow for anticipating the lights, then it's 100% legal. However Brundle announced that anticipating the lights is not allowed, as the FIA want a fair human reaction. Not that anyone should be able to anticipate the lights, as the lights off sequence is completely random.
    Stop crying over it. If you see the slow-mos it still shows the car moves after the red lights go off.
    Whether he anticipated it, or had super human reflexes or it was divine intervention is irrelevant. It may be impossible for the body to react so fast, but if the car has moved after the red lights, there is no argument here.
    And even if bottas anticipated the lights, i cant see why its illegal. Should his anticipation be wrong, he is the one who is penalised. He is taking that risk then. Unfortunately for us, he got it spot on this time.
    Time to move on.
    Silently, like a shadow

  12. #792
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    Apart from the last 5 laps, it was a boring race.
    I think if there were 2 more laps, SV would have taken bottas, and hamilton ricciardo.

    And what was kimi doing? he seems to come alive and go to sleep in spurts. And both in the same race. I can see SM getting ready to fire him. Its not the first time he has commented on Kimis performance or lack of.
    Silently, like a shadow

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormsearcher View Post
    Stop crying over it. If you see the slow-mos it still shows the car moves after the red lights go off.
    Whether he anticipated it, or had super human reflexes or it was divine intervention is irrelevant. It may be impossible for the body to react so fast, but if the car has moved after the red lights, there is no argument here.
    And even if bottas anticipated the lights, i cant see why its illegal. Should his anticipation be wrong, he is the one who is penalised. He is taking that risk then. Unfortunately for us, he got it spot on this time.
    Time to move on.
    He moved before the lights went out. Which slow-mos did you watch? It's all over the web, clearly showing he did put the pedal to the metal right BEFORE the red lights disappeared

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormsearcher View Post
    I think if there were 2 more laps, SV would have taken bottas,
    That have that in NASCAR. Maybe Seb should give that a try.

  15. #795
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    Silverstone GP should be interesting
    Ferrari went with aggressive SS tyres over mercs.
    Mercs opted for more soft tyres. Which might be the race tyres, considering medium tyres are hardly used.
    Ferrari had good pace on SS tyres, mercs have edge on S tyres. So should be interesting race.

  16. #796
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    It looks like Bottas got lucky and got the start perfect, Brundle did say your not allowed to anticipate the lights going out which it looks like he admits to doing...so if that is a rule then he should have got a penalty.
    Forza Ferrari

  17. #797
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    well if Bottas winning this time puts more pressure on Ham maybe it's not such a bad thing. Seb needs to win more races though, hopefully starting on Sunday.

  18. #798
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    Did Haas run the new upgraded PU in austria ? They were quicker than force India. I would have thought ferrari might let them test it first before Silverstone.

  19. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    Did Haas run the new upgraded PU in austria ? They were quicker than force India. I would have thought ferrari might let them test it first before Silverstone.
    Still scratching my head on this one. It was pretty much "head down and focused" GRO --> silent and got pts. No brake issues. If K Mag did'nt have rear suspension issues

    then it would have been a gauge IF they recieved a new OR upgraded PU. Nothing on the airways suggesting that or that I have come across.

    got it

    Finding the sweet spot

    Grosjean says the upturn in Haas’s fortunes this weekend was due to getting the car into the correct performance windows, it terms of tyres and downforce.

    “There are a few things we need to improve but when we get the tyres to work and the right downforce level and the right drag level we are very competitive,” he said.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/g...ustria-928697/
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 10th July 2017 at 09:14.

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  21. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    Did Haas run the new upgraded PU in austria ? They were quicker than force India. I would have thought ferrari might let them test it first before Silverstone.
    No. It's the upgraded 2nd spec engine which they got for this race.

  22. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Still scratching my head on this one. It was pretty much "head down and focused" GRO --> silent and got pts. No brake issues. If K Mag did'nt have rear suspension issues

    then it would have been a gauge IF they recieved a new OR upgraded PU. Nothing on the airways suggesting that or that I have come across.

    got it



    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/g...ustria-928697/
    Thanks

  23. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    No. It's the upgraded 2nd spec engine which they got for this race.
    So that means more to come from the new PU at Silverstone. I have a feeling we might bring a lot of new parts as well.

  24. #804
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    F1 2017 Austrian GP Best Team Radio

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhfoBCxQqEg

  25. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    Everyone needs to stop digging for a penalty. We didn't win today - accept it. Bottas didn't jump the start, and if it were Seb or Kimi everyone would be FURIOUS that it was being investigated, or that people were talking about it.

    I agree that it was pure chance, but Bottas simply made a perfect start. Cool. Now on to the next race!
    Well said!

  26. #806
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by JPBD View Post
    Everyone needs to stop digging for a penalty. We didn't win today - accept it. Bottas didn't jump the start, and if it were Seb or Kimi everyone would be FURIOUS that it was being investigated, or that people were talking about it.

    I agree that it was pure chance, but Bottas simply made a perfect start. Cool. Now on to the next race!
    He did not ?

    https://twitter.com/echelonbrother/s...25698222034945

  27. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    post #784

  28. #808
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    Can anyone copy and paste the article please

    http://www.autosport.com/premium/fea...nly-unravelled

  29. #809
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    Well the thing is. Are the FIA saying you CAN play with the clutch and move the car around a little, even get it rolling forward as the red lights go off? If Vettel tries this will they drop a ton of bricks on him, since he is on thin ice? These questions need clarification.

  30. #810
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    Interesting side by side analysis of Vettel and Bottas Q3 laps:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfWR7rx7v5M.

    We are losing in the straights but are making up for it in the corners. Should make for an interesting British GP.

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