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Thread: Mercedes breaks 'gentleman's agreement' - report

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Ferrari were idiots to make any silent/gentleman agreement with mercs when Mercs have FIA in there pocket and get everything there way
    We should make a big problem out of this for FIA

  2. #32
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    Ferrari should wait till after Singapore to introduce engines so they can keep there engines without the oil limit right away

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Ferrari should wait till after Singapore to introduce engines so they can keep there engines without the oil limit right away
    how knows maybe we can beat them with a new one even if they burn 0.3l oli more then we do

  4. #34
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    The FIA should not be changing rules mdway through a season, they should let everyone use 1.2litres until the season so all teams are playing to the same regulations.

  5. #35
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    Well it's our own fault ferrari could have easily done the same but didn't as it's unsporting but as they say nice guys dont win you have to be ruthless to win a championship

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Well it's our own fault ferrari could have easily done the same but didn't as it's unsporting but as they say nice guys dont win you have to be ruthless to win a championship
    Pretty much this. Ferrari should have been smarter about this situation and introduced the engine sooner. The question that lingers however, is whether everyone was informed of this new rule at the same time such that everyone had the same time to make the appropriate modifications.
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Well it's our own fault ferrari could have easily done the same but didn't as it's unsporting but as they say nice guys dont win you have to be ruthless to win a championship
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Pretty much this. Ferrari should have been smarter about this situation and introduced the engine sooner. The question that lingers however, is whether everyone was informed of this new rule at the same time such that everyone had the same time to make the appropriate modifications.
    agreed Tony

    Allison got his cozy job at Mercedes and pointed the finger at Ferrari for the oil burn (and cried wolff )......everyone else had ample time to make any modifications

    regarding their PU whether it's .9ltr /100km or 1.2ltr/100km. Mercedes did and everyone else was sleeping IF they needed to make such mods.; End of story..time to move

    on and hope for the best of the Scuderia.

  8. #38
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    FIA confirms mercedes can use 1.2ltr. of oil per 100km limit and the customer teams leave alone other mfrs. who are going to use the same engine is limited to 0.9ltr per 100 km.This is stupidity at its best.Why didn't the FIA drafted the rule as the 4th engine should be limited to 0.9ltr oil rule.
    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...-limit-946538/

  9. #39
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    At this point I imagine Jean Todt licking Toto's....aaaaaa.... guessing it's not allowed here. Never mind. I can't figure out how Todt can allow this to happen. He was OUR team principal. I'm not saying he should favor us, but for crying out loud, he seems to be doing just the opposite. I'm expecting him to be neutral but this year he seems to want the mercs to win.

  10. #40
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    http://www.motorspor...ning-rule-tweak
    According to this article the FIA mislead/lied to Ferrari in Hungary that nobody would bring an upgrade at Spa in order to avoid the tweak
    "Ferrari, planning to introduce an upgraded specification engine in Monza and clearly concerned in case its rival should introduce a new spec in Spa (ie exactly what happened), responded in Hungary by asking the FIA why it didn’t introduce the new restriction immediately. Ferrari received the response that no one was planning a Spa upgrade and was thus becalmed. But then, upset – Mercedes did indeed turn up with a new engine at Spa."

    From another forum.

  11. #41
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    This is not good from FIA.
    They should now remove this limit.

  12. #42
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    Ferrari should protest at the Monza GP...Park their powered cars across the finish line and refuse to participate until the FIA admit to Mercedes favouritism and remove this limit to encourage fair racing.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    Ferrari should protest at the Monza GP...Park their powered cars across the finish line and refuse to participate until the FIA admit to Mercedes favouritism and remove this limit to encourage fair racing.
    as much as i agree with you and i'd like this to happen.........the Ferrari we know dont' have the GUTS to do any of that, at least the Ferrari of old regime.....but maybe Sergio M. may do somethig....again i DOUBT IT....

  14. #44
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    Well maybe it wasn't the FIA... could be Merc told the FIA they wouldn't introduce a new spec and FIA believed that. Merc have to be the slimiest team around so it wouldn't surprise me if they did this. But I bet they're pretty shocked that Ferrari was as fast as they were, especially after they used a new spec engine and barely beat us.

  15. #45
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    Did we NOT introduce a new Ferrari engine at Spa?

    Don't forget, it could be introduced in a customer car!!

    EDIT: According to an article on motorsport.com, FIA have "clarified" a few points on the oil burn issue. Although Mercedes have introduced a new ICE at Spa that limits oil use to 1.2l per 100km, when that same engine is given to its customer teams it will have to conform to the 0.9l per 100km.

    Conversely, even if the new engine Ferrari supplied to Haas for Spa uses 1.2l, that same design put into a Ferrari will have to meet the 0.9l limit.

    Could the FIA have been any more convoluted in trying to control the whole oil burn debacle?????? Ridiculous!
    Last edited by abbottcostello; 29th August 2017 at 23:29. Reason: New Info
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

  16. #46
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    I'm curious whether or not the FIA knew that Mercedes were planning on releasing their 4th engine at SPA before answering Ferrari and whether or not they are required to inform Ferrari of this. Does anyone know the requirements?
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbottcostello View Post
    Did we NOT introduce a new Ferrari engine at Spa?

    Don't forget, it could be introduced in a customer car!!

    EDIT: According to an article on motorsport.com, FIA have "clarified" a few points on the oil burn issue. Although Mercedes have introduced a new ICE at Spa that limits oil use to 1.2l per 100km, when that same engine is given to its customer teams it will have to conform to the 0.9l per 100km.

    Conversely, even if the new engine Ferrari supplied to Haas for Spa uses 1.2l, that same design put into a Ferrari will have to meet the 0.9l limit.

    Could the FIA have been any more convoluted in trying to control the whole oil burn debacle?????? Ridiculous!
    Since the engine teams are required to give same engines to the customer teams, why is it that Mercedes is keeping the 1.2lt configuration while they have to give 0.9 to the customer teams?
    I am sorry this is BS, and Ferrari needs to protest this big time.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So there is now 2 rules for engines and the oil they can use? Not one normally to laugh at the FIA but how can this be fair?

    All engines from Monza use 0.9l of oil surely makes sense?
    I don't completely agree with you.
    Engines used till now were designed with the 1.2l rule in mind, what if they really consume that oil in a race? How can you use them in the remaining races?
    You cannot modify them, you will be DQ on every race or forced to run them in a very conservative way losing a lot of power.
    So FIA gave the manufacturers time to change their designs so new engines after SPA will have to comply with the .9l rule.

    Merc will run all their engines within the 1.2l rule, Ferrari will have 3 under that rule and one with the .9l limit (per car).

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Since the engine teams are required to give same engines to the customer teams, why is it that Mercedes is keeping the 1.2lt configuration while they have to give 0.9 to the customer teams?
    I am sorry this is BS, and Ferrari needs to protest this big time.
    It doesn't matter what spec an engine is, it's the engine itself what counts, after an engine leaves the pitlane it's considered used/homologated.
    All engines used before Monza will keep the 1.2l rule, whatever their specs are.
    Last edited by gvera; 30th August 2017 at 19:26.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    I'm curious whether or not the FIA knew that Mercedes were planning on releasing their 4th engine at SPA before answering Ferrari and whether or not they are required to inform Ferrari of this. Does anyone know the requirements?
    I understand PU components usage is completely free, you use what you want (more than 4 with penalty of course).
    I don't beleive all that 'nobody plans to use a new engine' nonsense, how can be FIA be sure of that?
    Just look at Honda, they use about a dozen components at each GP.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvera View Post
    It doesn't matter what spec an engine is, it's the engine itself what counts, after an engine leaves the pitlane it's considered used/homologated.
    All engines used before Monza will keep the 1.2l rule, whatever its spec is.
    Then they should not enforce the rule before start of 2018. Or skip it altogether.
    This whole thing makes for an uneven play field.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Then they should not enforce the rule before start of 2018. Or skip it altogether.
    This whole thing makes for an uneven play field.
    In 2018 the limit will be .6l/100km.

    What I don't understand is why all this arguments now, the FIA told the teams all this ahead of the Hungarian GP, it's not new.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvera View Post
    In 2018 the limit will be .6l/100km.

    What I don't understand is why all this arguments now, the FIA told the teams all this ahead of the Hungarian GP, it's not new.
    +1000

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvera View Post
    In 2018 the limit will be .6l/100km.

    What I don't understand is why all this arguments now, the FIA told the teams all this ahead of the Hungarian GP, it's not new.
    I think the issue is that Ferrari asked for clarification and the FIA gave them an answer that was untrue. If the article is right and Ferrari asked the FIA to implement the change at Hungary and they didn't due to the fact that no new engines were believed to be introduced before Monza, then they misled ferrari and just gave Merc an advantage. If this is the case, then the decision should be either reversed or the .9/l rule upheld for all engines used after hungary when the rule was first questioned.

  25. #55
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    The FIA has done some boneheaded things over the years, but even then there seems to have been some thought put into their actions. This whole oil burn thing has been a swing & a miss.

    They have tried to get control of a situation that, I don't think, they even fully understand yet and sadly their efforts have led to an unfair stopgap solution for the 2017 season. It's doubtful they even know what chemical compounds in the oil are being used to burn & there is nothing to regulate these yet.

    I would think & hope they have begun to investigate a more rational way of regulating using lubricant as a fuel.
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

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