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Thread: 2017 Italian GP: Race

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super M View Post
    I have a question for some of you guru's :

    (1) What made our car so strong in belgium ? ( power track )
    (2) Why the lack of pace at Monza ( another power track )

    I'm just not grasping this

    I hope this wasn't explained in another reply earlier on.

    Someone please make me understand........
    Setup.
    We did not have straight speed which that can be attributed to the way the car was set up (high down force setup). There could also be other parameters in place, such as the fact that the specific engine is getting old whereas Merc was running a virtually brand new engine.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  2. #572
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    We ran high downforce at Monza? I doubt the team would make that sort of mistake lol.
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Setup.
    We did not have straight speed which that can be attributed to the way the car was set up (high down force setup). There could also be other parameters in place, such as the fact that the specific engine is getting old whereas Merc was running a virtually brand new engine.

    Thanks for the explanation. Saying what you said about the older engine in our car vs Mercs brand new engine, could it really have been .650 tenths slower here at monza ??......if we had ( Lets say more down force ) wouldn't that eat up our tyres faster than mercs ? ( just asking )
    Drive it like you stole it!

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Setup.
    We did not have straight speed which that can be attributed to the way the car was set up (high down force setup). There could also be other parameters in place, such as the fact that the specific engine is getting old whereas Merc was running a virtually brand new engine.
    Ferrari gambled in reducing the rear wing angle to increase top speed. Qualifications in the rain didn't allow them to verify the validity of that solution.

    On Sunday though, the cars proved to be unstable under braking with less downforce, preventing the drivers to attack. As the fuel tank became lighter towards the end of the race, the situation became worse. Vettel could just maintain station far behind the leaders, and Raikkonen was unable to resist Ricciardo's move.

    just my 2 cents....

  5. #575
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    It's tended to be FP3 that we've really nailed our setup this year. Especially in the last couple of races with the overnight work on the simulator back at the factory. I don't know if it's related, but no running on Saturday morning certainly won't have helped.

    I think we don't need to get bogged down in the detail, because none of us know the technicalities of extracting those vital tenths. It was a race. We got good points and Ferrari will be doing everything they can to give us a strong season finale.

  6. #576
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    Also Ferrari didn't run the new diffuser which they had in spa. That's why I said Ferrari did miss fp3 badly.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Also Ferrari didn't run the new diffuser which they had in spa. That's why I said Ferrari did miss fp3 badly.
    They also ran a straight rear wing instead of the curved "W08" rear wing that they ran in previous races...hence the reduction in rear downforce and Lewis

    adding seconds to his lead while reducing engine mode (close to 40sec.) where Vettel could not keep up (plus the steering issue) as we have seen in previous races.

  8. #578
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    Ummm, the supposed steering issue for Vettel at Monza came about after Ferrari was already trailing the Merc pair by some 20 seconds and sounds like an excuse to placate fans.

    The engine in the Ferrari is weak compared to the engine in the Merc. The engine in the Renault is now closer to Ferrari than Ferrari is to Merc. The last engine for Ferrari better be a massive upgrade in power or the season is already over.

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Ummm, the supposed steering issue for Vettel at Monza came about after Ferrari was already trailing the Merc pair by some 20 seconds and sounds like an excuse to placate fans.

    The engine in the Ferrari is weak compared to the engine in the Merc. The engine in the Renault is now closer to Ferrari than Ferrari is to Merc. The last engine for Ferrari better be a massive upgrade in power or the season is already over.
    Ferrari initially intened to introduce the new engine in Monza, but opted NOT to do so for more development time as well as reliability....so are the rumours going around...

    in a way it's better to wait and introduce a better more reliable engine than a weak unreliable one...

    the question is WHEN will Ferrari introduce it??? i hope for Malaysia because of the two long straights if we are to to keep up with Mercedes.

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Ummm, the supposed steering issue for Vettel at Monza came about after Ferrari was already trailing the Merc pair by some 20 seconds and sounds like an excuse to placate fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    The engine in the Ferrari is weak compared to the engine in the Merc. The engine in the Renault is now closer to Ferrari than Ferrari is to Merc. The last engine for Ferrari better be a massive upgrade in power or the season is already over.
    We could see RBR split up the Merc's and Ferrari in Singapore.....

  11. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    Ferrari initially intened to introduce the new engine in Monza, but opted NOT to do so for more development time as well as reliability....so are the rumours going around...

    in a way it's better to wait and introduce a better more reliable engine than a weak unreliable one...

    the question is WHEN will Ferrari introduce it??? i hope for Malaysia because of the two long straights if we are to to keep up with Mercedes.
    Yeah I gather they are waiting to introduce the last engine to fix the fact that "oil burn" was the grand design this year to get on par w/ Merc and that once that was outlawed they were left w/ nothing. That's why we reassigned a top engine guy in middle of a fraught campaign.

    Honestly would rather see Ferrari come w/ a massive power upgrade and roll the dice on reliability. We are not going to "reliability" our way to a championship over Merc as reliability and power trump reliability any day. Would like to see the team take a chance and bring in an engine that can out qualify the Merc, to prove to themselves and everybody else that it can be done by them.

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Yeah I gather they are waiting to introduce the last engine to fix the fact that "oil burn" was the grand design this year to get on par w/ Merc and that once that was outlawed they were left w/ nothing. That's why we reassigned a top engine guy in middle of a fraught campaign.

    Honestly would rather see Ferrari come w/ a massive power upgrade and roll the dice on reliability. We are not going to "reliability" our way to a championship over Merc as reliability and power trump reliability any day. Would like to see the team take a chance and bring in an engine that can out qualify the Merc, to prove to themselves and everybody else that it can be done by them.
    I agree to a point but it's no good if it ends up going bang whilst in the lead!

  13. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    I don't like all this talks this circuit will suit our car and this will not. This is wrong approach. Ferrari should have car that is good no matter what circuit is driven on.
    Well Mercedes did the same thing to be honest. There are circuits on the calendar this year where they are not as fast as Ferrari... it's very hard to be good on every circuit unless you are in a rocket ship scenario... and that is not the case this year. Ferrari could have won at least another 2-3 races this year if it wasn't for bad timing due to safety cars or bad luck/decisions...
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Also Ferrari didn't run the new diffuser which they had in spa. That's why I said Ferrari did miss fp3 badly.
    Hmmmm that's interesting, do we know why it wasn't used?
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  15. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Hmmmm that's interesting, do we know why it wasn't used?
    Don't know, maybe it wasn't ready. We may see it in Suzuka and Austin.

  16. #586
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    Aside from the problems Vettel had during the race including the fact that he had to fight through traffic to get to that 3rd spot in the first part of the race.

    We have to take into consideration the fact that :

    1. Ferrari were running an used engine, while mercedes ran the upgraded engine introduced at Spa.
    2. Ferrari had setup problems due to the fact that it Saturday rained heavily.
    3. Let us not forget that Monza is even more a power hungry track than SPA and that is why the average speed around here is 20kph higher than in Spa.
    4. It wasnt such a disappointing race since Vettel got a nice 3rd place.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  17. #587
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    Ferrari & RB aggressive in tyre choice for Singapore race.
    Both choose 10 US tyres.
    It's imp that we stay ahead RB's.

  18. #588
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    Rob

    not sure I fully understand 2. as weather is the same for everyone.

    Also I wonder how many HP a 'used' engine loses compared to a new one.

  19. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    Rob

    not sure I fully understand 2. as weather is the same for everyone.

    Also I wonder how many HP a 'used' engine loses compared to a new one.
    It's not only engine, it's basically the combination of set-up, engine & high tyre pressures. These 3 are key factors at that track.

  20. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Ferrari & RB aggressive in tyre choice for Singapore race.
    Both choose 10 US tyres.
    It's imp that we stay ahead RB's.
    UltraSofts!!

  21. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    UltraSofts!!
    US = ultra softs
    Not Donald T's tyres

  22. #592
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    you mean Donald Thompson, the former McDonald's CEO right?

  23. #593
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    Seb fastest lap was only 0.5 slower than Hamilton. And much faster 3rd sector than Red Bull from Ascari to finish line. Unfortunately the lap times were very uneven. It looked like a problem with the engine.

  24. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    you mean Donald Thompson, the former McDonald's CEO right?
    nowhere near

  25. #595
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    Told ya....(post #577) rear wing set-up!!! One of several key factors in Monza.

    The low-drag 'Monza specials' that helped decide Italian GP


    Monza is always something of an aerodynamic upset, with teams producing specialised rear wings solely for use around the 'Temple of Speed'.



    This year, especially with the wholesale aerodynamic changes that have drastically boosted downforce, a concerted effort was made by all of the teams to reduce drag.

    Ferrari's home race was always going to be one that stirred unwanted emotions for the tifosi, as the SF70H's characteristics make it weaker than the W08 on high-speed circuits.

    It must also be noted that it is now significantly out of sync with Mercedes in terms of their power unit usage, with the scarlet team still able to introduce an updated, more powerful iteration later in the season.

    This also means that from a tolerance and performance point of view it may well have already taken the best out of the parts currently in its allocation, giving it a stronger run-in on the circuits that are better suited to the SF70H when the new parts are introduced.

    Knowing the challenge it faced at Monza, the team prepared an all-new wing for the event, making a concerted effort to reduce the amount of drag being generated.

    Having previously used a spoon-shaped rear wing in both Baku and Spa to generate enough downforce when needed in the corners and counter the drag produced on the straights, the team switched to a more conventional-shaped wing for Monza.

    The mainplane and top flap featured a singular, centralised slot gap separator and V groove, whereas two had previously been preferred (black arrows). The open-end style endplate louvres were dispensed, with and conventional ones used instead (highlighted in yellow).

    The smaller of the two monkey seats that had found a home above the exhaust (red arrow) was also removed, as at lower speeds the rear wing, without the spoon shaping, didn't need the aerodynamic support it offers.

    Mercedes, while dominant around the famed Italian circuit, did not bring a super slender or less complicated rear wing, instead favouring a similar design to the one it ran when drag reduction has been important elsewhere, such as Azerbaijan and Spa.

    However, the wing did feature a less pronounced angle of attack and a revision to the chord length of both the mainplane and top flap, the latter of which was furnished with a more diminutive gurney flap.

    The spoon-shaped rear wing already provides a significant trade-off between downforce and drag reduction, with the shorter chord outer extremities not only producing less downforce but also having a significant effect on the drag-inducing vortices created at the wing tips - often illustrated by contrails in damp conditions.

    The design and number of endplate louvres often tally with the overall design, shape and angle of attack of the rear wing in order that they help to reshape and displace the aforementioned tip vortex.

    As such, Mercedes ordinarily runs with four open-end style louvres and a fifth shorter louvre (inset, highlighted in yellow) but the set-up used in Monza, Spa and Baku dictated just the three open-end style louvres be employed (yellow highlights).

    Having already asked Daniel Ricciardo to give its Monza specification rear wing a run-out at Spa, the Red Bull team knew it could provide its drivers with the aerodynamic gains they'd need to challenge at the front in Monza.

    The wing, which features an extremely low angle of attack, follows the same trend the team have employed at Monza since 2013 (below), whereby the angle dictates that no louvres be needed in the endplates (see left inset for comparison, where the louvres have been highlighted in yellow).

    You'll also note that due to the shallow angle of the mainplane the DRS actuator pod sits entirely on it, rather than above the surface.

    There can be no doubt that Williams has been struggling to meet expectations this season, as the FW40 has failed to deliver the kind of performance its predecessors offered.

    The Italian GP was a kind one to Williams, with an out-of-character showing in a wet weather qualifying session and demotion of several challengers around them on the grid seeing Lance Stroll and Felipe Massa start the race in P2 and P7 respectively.

    The drivers made different set-up choices too, which could be one of the primary catalysts for Stroll's better showing in qualifying than his seasoned teammate.

    The Canadian opted for the 'Monza special', whilst the Brazilian opted for a higher-downforce rear wing.

    The lower downforce version featured a much gentler spoon shaping, with the curved leading edge of the mainplane both flatter (upper image, highlighted in yellow) and more sinuous, as the outer section curved rearward (lower image, yellow line).

    The top flap's shape was also demonstrably different, as the angle was significantly reduced and bowed inward toward the centreline (green dotted line).

    You'll also note that the endplate louvres were reduced from four to three on the lower-downforce configuration (circled).

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...-monza-949822/

  26. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    US = ultra softs
    Not Donald T's tyres
    #MAKEFERRARIGREATAGAIN

  27. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    #MAKEFERRARIGREATAGAIN
    that's the only agenda in the next gen

  28. #598
    FerrariSteve Guest
    Guys, I need a new site for F1 news, I just checked the BBC F1 site out and my god it's an utter joke (see image)
    talk about one track mind... is there only one driver in F1 now?

    https://imgur.com/a/VkbxD

    Can someone recommend a less biased F1 news site please? I'm done with the BBC.

  29. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariSteve View Post
    Guys, I need a new site for F1 news, I just checked the BBC F1 site out and my god it's an utter joke (see image)
    talk about one track mind... is there only one driver in F1 now?

    https://imgur.com/a/VkbxD

    Can someone recommend a less biased F1 news site please? I'm done with the BBC.
    Hard to accept but all true headlines. If Lewis was with Ferrari not Merc ; BBC would have to be praised for their coverage. Lewis did do all those headlines. Most every other news site stated the same headlines after the Italian GP race. No need to reccomend this site, your already here!

  30. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariSteve View Post
    Guys, I need a new site for F1 news, I just checked the BBC F1 site out and my god it's an utter joke (see image)
    talk about one track mind... is there only one driver in F1 now?

    https://imgur.com/a/VkbxD

    Can someone recommend a less biased F1 news site please? I'm done with the BBC.
    they are nauseating

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