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Thread: Deal is done. McLaren Renault & Toro Rosso Honda for 2018

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    Deal is done. McLaren Renault & Toro Rosso Honda for 2018

    Reports in Germany say the announcement will come at the Singapore Grand Prix, it is believed that the deal has been completed and we’ll see a swop of Power Units in 2018.

    With the final jigsaw piece falling into place with the announcement at the weekend, that Carlos Sainz will leave Toro Rosso for the works Renault team next year as a sweetener for the transition. The very talented Carlos has certainly outgrown his time at Toro Rosso so his leaving the Red Bull stable isn’t a huge surprise.

    Originally the announcement was set for Monza but delays in discussions between the parties meant the announcement had to wait until the next race at Singapore. Indeed it seemed that the governing body FIA and FOM mandated that McLaren had the right not to be blackmailed into keeping Honda and so had a part to play in the discussions. Honda made it very clear that they’d only work with McLaren in Formula One or they’d leave. Had such a ultimatum occurred, McLaren would not have an engine supply as the other manufacturers are limited to supply a set number of teams.

    Many have argued that McLaren simply can’t afford to ditch Honda as they provide the driver salaries along with free engine supply and development. But Zak Brown, boss of McLaren had already made clear that in order for McLaren to prosper, they need to be further up that grid and that was his priority. Indeed, their desire to keep Alonso was foremost in their mind with this decision.

    Now the deal has been done, Toro Rosso will likely begin the slow disentanglement from Red Bull and become the works Honda team. Interesting times ahead.

    https://thejudge13.com/2017/09/11/de...onda-for-2018/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Reports in Germany say the announcement will come at the Singapore Grand Prix, it is believed that the deal has been completed and we’ll see a swop of Power Units in 2018.

    With the final jigsaw piece falling into place with the announcement at the weekend, that Carlos Sainz will leave Toro Rosso for the works Renault team next year as a sweetener for the transition. The very talented Carlos has certainly outgrown his time at Toro Rosso so his leaving the Red Bull stable isn’t a huge surprise.

    Originally the announcement was set for Monza but delays in discussions between the parties meant the announcement had to wait until the next race at Singapore. Indeed it seemed that the governing body FIA and FOM mandated that McLaren had the right not to be blackmailed into keeping Honda and so had a part to play in the discussions. Honda made it very clear that they’d only work with McLaren in Formula One or they’d leave. Had such a ultimatum occurred, McLaren would not have an engine supply as the other manufacturers are limited to supply a set number of teams.

    Many have argued that McLaren simply can’t afford to ditch Honda as they provide the driver salaries along with free engine supply and development. But Zak Brown, boss of McLaren had already made clear that in order for McLaren to prosper, they need to be further up that grid and that was his priority. Indeed, their desire to keep Alonso was foremost in their mind with this decision.

    Now the deal has been done, Toro Rosso will likely begin the slow disentanglement from Red Bull and become the works Honda team. Interesting times ahead.

    https://thejudge13.com/2017/09/11/de...onda-for-2018/
    I don't think TR will become a fully Honda works team. RB will still be in control of that team. I think what RB are doing is a pretty good move. Probably they test Honda on TR and if it turns out to be successful they'll make Honda their exclusive partner. Having said that, RB will have an exclusive engine partner. RB has nothing to lose from this, only to gain if Honda proves to be successful.

    McLaren on the other hand are in trouble if Renault becomes a championship contender team. They'll end up as Renault's vassals. Nevertheless, this is better for McLaren short-term, and they opted for this move because they are desperate to get back on the front asap. It looks like they can't wait for Honda anymore even if they think Honda is able to deliver a competitive engine in 2-3 years time. Nevertheless, interesting times ahead indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I don't think TR will become a fully Honda works team. RB will still be in control of that team. I think what RB are doing is a pretty good move. Probably they test Honda on TR and if it turns out to be successful they'll make Honda their exclusive partner. Having said that, RB will have an exclusive engine partner. RB has nothing to lose from this, only to gain if Honda proves to be successful.

    McLaren on the other hand are in trouble if Renault becomes a championship contender team. They'll end up as Renault's vassals. Nevertheless, this is better for McLaren short-term, and they opted for this move because they are desperate to get back on the front asap. It looks like they can't wait for Honda anymore even if they think Honda is able to deliver a competitive engine in 2-3 years time. Nevertheless, interesting times ahead indeed.
    +1....The only downside and you pointed it out, Honda. If they cannot prove to be successful after this deal then TR is at a loss......more or less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    +1....The only downside and you pointed it out, Honda. If they cannot prove to be successful after this deal then TR is at a loss......more or less.
    Oh well, RB can afford putting TR at the end of the grid for a season or two. TR is their little guinea pig team.

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    Interesting news (if it turns out to be true) with implications for several different teams and drivers. The link from "The Judge" does not mention Sainz but other sources say he is being sold to Renault as part of the deal.

    ... their (Mclaren's) desire to keep Alonso was foremost in their mind with this decision.

    Supposedly Honda was paying all or most of Alonso's considerable salary. I wonder if he'll take a pay cut or if Mclaren will come up with his paycheck out of their own funds? Obviously with this deal McLaren will have to start paying for engines from Renault instead of getting them for free from Honda, so if they're also picking up Alonso's cost this looks like being an expensive deal for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireblade View Post
    Interesting news (if it turns out to be true) with implications for several different teams and drivers. The link from "The Judge" does not mention Sainz but other sources say he is being sold to Renault as part of the deal.

    ... their (Mclaren's) desire to keep Alonso was foremost in their mind with this decision.

    Supposedly Honda was paying all or most of Alonso's considerable salary. I wonder if he'll take a pay cut or if Mclaren will come up with his paycheck out of their own funds? Obviously with this deal McLaren will have to start paying for engines from Renault instead of getting them for free from Honda, so if they're also picking up Alonso's cost this looks like being an expensive deal for them.
    I think we might see Alonso taking a pay cut. From $40M to 20-25M, which is not bad if he has a competitive car. However, can McLaren fight for a title with Renault engines? I'm not really sure, i think they will just fight for fourth in the constructors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I think we might see Alonso taking a pay cut. From $40M to 20-25M, which is not bad if he has a competitive car. However, can McLaren fight for a title with Renault engines? I'm not really sure, i think they will just fight for fourth in the constructors.
    Let's be realistic.
    At this point, McLaren almost resembles the likes of a Minardi team. It is not a front runner, it's actually more of a backrunner team.

    It is an unattractive team for sponsors , ergo the lack of sponsorship, and the lack of funds to begin with.

    They cannot - by any means - have ANY expectations for a title at this point.
    They need to restore damage by starting to be competitive , start to show constant racing form, become a #4 team behind Ferrari, Mercedes, RBR, and then see what happens next.

    As far as for Alonso.
    Only an idiot would not know what I just said.
    He has two choices. Ride this or leave. No great team (Ferrari, Merc , RBR) will give him a ride.
    He can go to USA and race there.

    I say he'll stay to F1 cause the money ,even say 15-20 mn plus personal sponsors, as he is closing retirement , are REALLY good.

    We'll see.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Let's be realistic.
    At this point, McLaren almost resembles the likes of a Minardi team. It is not a front runner, it's actually more of a backrunner team.

    It is an unattractive team for sponsors , ergo the lack of sponsorship, and the lack of funds to begin with.

    They cannot - by any means - have ANY expectations for a title at this point.
    They need to restore damage by starting to be competitive , start to show constant racing form, become a #4 team behind Ferrari, Mercedes, RBR, and then see what happens next.

    As far as for Alonso.
    Only an idiot would not know what I just said.
    He has two choices. Ride this or leave. No great team (Ferrari, Merc , RBR) will give him a ride.
    He can go to USA and race there.

    I say he'll stay to F1 cause the money ,even say 15-20 mn plus personal sponsors, as he is closing retirement , are REALLY good.

    We'll see.
    I think we should not rate them as low as a backrunner team. After all, they have huge capabilities to design a good chassis. Having said that, they will always be a threat with a good engine. Something like RB. However, i agree, it seems pretty unlikely that they will fight for a title in the next 2-3 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I think we should not rate them as low as a backrunner team. After all, they have huge capabilities to design a good chassis. Having said that, they will always be a threat with a good engine. Something like RB. However, i agree, it seems pretty unlikely that they will fight for a title in the next 2-3 years.
    In McLaren's last year with Mercedes, they were beaten by one of the worst chassis builders on the grid, Williams with the same engine. So if you think they are that good( as good as RBR) think again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Let's be realistic.
    At this point, McLaren almost resembles the likes of a Minardi team. It is not a front runner, it's actually more of a backrunner team.

    It is an unattractive team for sponsors , ergo the lack of sponsorship, and the lack of funds to begin with.

    They cannot - by any means - have ANY expectations for a title at this point.
    They need to restore damage by starting to be competitive , start to show constant racing form, become a #4 team behind Ferrari, Mercedes, RBR, and then see what happens next.

    As far as for Alonso.
    Only an idiot would not know what I just said.
    He has two choices. Ride this or leave. No great team (Ferrari, Merc , RBR) will give him a ride.
    He can go to USA and race there.

    I say he'll stay to F1 cause the money ,even say 15-20 mn plus personal sponsors, as he is closing retirement , are REALLY good.

    We'll see.
    It's sad for Alonso, he is a great driver, but he's made so many bad decisions... I think the split with Briatore may have left him vulnerable to his own poor judgment...
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    In McLaren's last year with Mercedes, they were beaten by one of the worst chassis builders on the grid, Williams with the same engine. So if you think they are that good( as good as RBR) think again...
    Everyone can have a bad season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    It's sad for Alonso, he is a great driver, but he's made so many bad decisions... I think the split with Briatore may have left him vulnerable to his own poor judgment...
    I think Briatore is still Alonso's manager.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    It's sad for Alonso, he is a great driver, but he's made so many bad decisions... I think the split with Briatore may have left him vulnerable to his own poor judgment...

    Or ego. One or the other has let him down.

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    Alonso in either Lewis' or Bottas' car, he would be in 1st place for sure. Lewis or Bottas in Alonso's car, they would be in worse shape than him. I believe even in Seb's car Lewis would be behind Alonso in points.

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    McLaren Renault sounds good

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Alonso in either Lewis' or Bottas' car, he would be in 1st place for sure. Lewis or Bottas in Alonso's car, they would be in worse shape than him. I believe even in Seb's car Lewis would be behind Alonso in points.
    In the same car they finished equal on points, everything else is pure speculation

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    McLaren-Honda or Renault or whatever, they are still a garagista team albeit in "modern" F1? Build their own F1 and road car engines and they will be a true marque
    or leave Bruce's good name out of it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    In the same car they finished equal on points, everything else is pure speculation
    Alonso drove the same car as Lewis and finishes equal on points? When ? Where? Or is this speculation? What about team orders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I think we should not rate them as low as a backrunner team. After all, they have huge capabilities to design a good chassis. Having said that, they will always be a threat with a good engine. Something like RB. However, i agree, it seems pretty unlikely that they will fight for a title in the next 2-3 years.
    I am rating their performance.
    Surely, with a better package they have the potentials to come back to a much better position.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Alonso drove the same car as Lewis and finishes equal on points? When ? Where? Or is this speculation? What about team orders?
    What team orders? Nobody on the team ordered anybody anything. Thats why they lost the WDC that year to Kimi

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    RedBull to use Honda engines in 2019 due to Renault dropping them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    What team orders? Nobody on the team ordered anybody anything. Thats why they lost the WDC that year to Kimi
    That meant I was joking! Relax! Too many babes and whisky!!

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    No wonder Sainz wanted out of Toro Rosso. lol
    Common doesn't mean "Come on"; "Should have" not "Should of" ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    That meant I was joking! Relax! Too many babes and whisky!!
    Too much work maybe, these days hoping to get back on track with those babes and whisky soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Everyone can have a bad season.



    I think Briatore is still Alonso's manager.
    Interesting, wasn't aware of that, I thought Briatore was banned for life from F1 including managerial functions lol... but I don't really follow him or Alonso that closely either way...
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Or ego. One or the other has let him down.
    Yeah I would agree with that statement...

    Great talent though, unfortunate he couldn't extract the maximum from it due to his poor career decisions.
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I am rating their performance.
    Surely, with a better package they have the potentials to come back to a much better position.
    Well, we'll see how good their chassis really is next year when they have a Renault in the back. By the way, rumors say that Alonso will take a paycut but will still earn a hefty 20M pounds.

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    Looking forward to their performance next season. They have a fantastic driver line-up and should do well with a competitive engine.

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    "Renault are reportedly set to end their engine deal with Red Bull, informing the former champions that they will not supply them once their current contract expires." Hoping this is true, so the Tag Heuer branding, always engine beaching, unrealistic demading customer is forced to go with Honda, cause we all know Ferrari and Mercedes wont suply them

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    "Renault are reportedly set to end their engine deal with Red Bull, informing the former champions that they will not supply them once their current contract expires." Hoping this is true, so the Tag Heuer branding, always engine beaching, unrealistic demading customer is forced to go with Honda, cause we all know Ferrari and Mercedes wont suply them
    Now it makes even more sense why TR opted to go for Honda It looks like RB are in quite a conundrum, their fate is in Honda's hands now.

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    Is there not a rule that would make Ferrari or Merc have to supply them engines?
    Forza Ferrari

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