Ok, so of the remaining races, what are our chances on these tracks.....?? ( would they suit our chassis or not ? )
Second question : When will it be wise to introduce our last engine upgrade ?
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Ok, so of the remaining races, what are our chances on these tracks.....?? ( would they suit our chassis or not ? )
Second question : When will it be wise to introduce our last engine upgrade ?
Drive it like you stole it!
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https://twitter.com/marco111267/stat...01508264972288
^^
Just to reiterate on how dissimilar this was to the race start back in 2010. Vettel pinching so recklessly like that on a non championship rival in the wet was a complete boneheaded move of the highest order.
Last edited by TheProdigalSon; 18th September 2017 at 09:15.
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Originally Posted by Rob
Absolutely true - Kimi didn`t steer towards VER at all. Even Kimi haters should be able to see this. Steering wheel is moving because of normal wheel spin.
I still believe that all this could be avoided if VER only lifted bit earlier because he already lost that start 100 - 0. That might helped. Also accident could have been avoided if SEB acted less aggressive.
Can`t win it in first corner.
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according to Ted Kravitz notebook (youtube) as he was walking the paddock while everyone was gearing up he stated:
Mercedes used #2 engines (old-Spain) on both cars as they felt they did'nt need "power" at the Singapore track.
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Oh keep hating on Vettel, you have no business on this forum then. Nobody is perfect, even the best drivers make mistakes, get over it. It happens, we have to look at the future now, there are still 6 races remaining. But I really dont like this hate on this forum, some of you guys are soo called Ferrari fans, but you are worse then the guys on autosport forum (Which is a anti Vettel forum).
Banned
if we are to have a chance the new spec4 PU must deliver
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Really? Kimi did what race drivers do. And he did it well. Lifting off and wait that everybody else can go safely is not an option(unless you get bad start like VER). Especially after that start. Well... Kimi lifting up and now you would be telling how lame and slow Kimi is. Maybe this is Kimi`s true role in the team - take all the blame. If he wins by 30min margin, I guess Italian press gives him grade 5 or 6. Forum would probably say that VET or ALO could have had 31min gap to second. But whatever you are thinking about Kimi, this accident was not he`s fault at all. Great start.
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Telling me I have no business on this forum when you've only been here a few monthsyeah ok buddy
If you can't handle your driver taking flak for doing silly things maybe you should go to www.sebastianvettelfanclub.com instead.
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If you can't handle your driver taking flak for doing silly things maybe you should go to www.sebastianvettelfanclub.com instead.[/QUOTE]
I have a question for you : Does the pole sitter have a right to defend his position at the start of the race.......YES OR NO ???
Drive it like you stole it!
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Look as a big Vettel fan I can say that Seb was mainly at fault yesterday. He paid big price for it, end of the story. But he still is a great driver, but his biggest weakness that sometimes in the heat of the moment he makes bad calls. Every driver has at least one weakness, some guys will broke under pressure, some not. But its not over until the fat lady sings it. I was very angry yesterday, but I cant do anything about it. These guys make millions of euros, and you think they care what we think about them.Telling me I have no business on this forum when you've only been here a few months
If you can't handle your driver taking flak for doing silly things maybe you should go to www.sebastianvettelfanclub.com instead.
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Jerez 1997, Suzuka 1998, Brazil 2008, Abu Dhabi 2010. And now Singapore 2017.
Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
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Its not over!! Never stop believing mate, we must be optimistic. Even if we dont prevail at least we can say we had a shot for the title. Now all we need is 4 wins and 2 second places. :D
In old points Hamilton is 11 points ahead and 60 points are still possible. Remember whan happened in 2007, when Kimi was 16 points down with 20 to go. Dont lose hope mate, I at least will believe until the very end in Seb and Ferrari!
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Well atleast you admit it was reckless. I think the pressure driving for Ferrari is getting to him I don't know what else it could be. I've seen two very critical errors this year. I was willing to let Baku slide but now this. It's just a shame to see such an opportunity go wasted, he's had a better car this year than all of ferraris previous efforts in the last 7 years combined.
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Yes.
Within reason, if that was Lewis Hamilton next to him it would make a whole lot of sense why he would risk being overly aggressive and taking himself out but still it's a long race and races are not won on the first corner. All he had to do was at the minimum finish ahead of Lewis but he was just focused on max who's not a threat to his ultimate goal.
Banned
come on guys, what is done is done, the team needs our support now more than ever
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOPzsVsaA0 ......That's Hamilton doing the exact same thing.............Only difference is, he got away with that !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoRlpqIwiqs ...... That's Vettel defending his line!..only difference here is, Verstapen hits Raikkonen, which in turn hits Seb.............You cannot single handidley pin in on Vettel mate...........Just a sad chain of events..............could it have been avoided ??..............Sure!!..........( All in hind site )
Drive it like you stole it!
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Agree.
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No, the difference is Vettel made a bad start.
So he could either..
a) accept he's made a bad start and that he will have to concede the lead but still maintain track position to Hamilton (championship cap on)
b) veer heavily to the left knowing the chances of multiple cars who made better starts could be alongside (championship cap off)
The rest is history anyways as others have said let's move on :)
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You need to see the aerial footage again.......unless my eye's are deceiving me, Vettel is ahead at the start ( both drivers didn't have the best of starts ).........My take on it......Raikkonen was the the one who got the best start, Would he have managed to break for that corner ???.....Maybe not with all that rain.
The real difference at Monza was that Strohl backed off as he didn't want to interfere with hamilton ( post race interview ) = Hamilton lucky & Vettel not so lucky.............
Yip, time to move on then......
Drive it like you stole it!
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You're right. Brazil 2007 is on the other list[emoji12] . Hope to add a few races this year to it.
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I agree Rob. Its disgusting.
Even though i believe Seb made a massive mistake trying to win the race in the 1st corner and move over towards Max to "defend his position", i still refuse to give up on him and Ferrari. From memory Lewis was also 28+ points behind him a few months ago and now look where he is, we just have to fight back too. Lets hope it works out for us, but yeah we will need alot of luck, hopefully a couple of Malaysia 2016 type luck!
CUT ME. CUT YOU. BOTH OUR BLOOD IS FERRARI RED!
George Kabardis
Man,the EXACT same things,i keep saying since yesterday!!!!!!Thank you!!!!
FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!
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Almost every pole sitter has made that move to block the guy behind him. The only thing that went wrong is that Max doesn't believe in yielding. If you see replays, both Ferraris were in front so he knew where those cars were. He could have lifted. He's the one behind, he was never going to make the corner ahead of Vettel so why not yield? If it was Ham or Alonso or Ric, this wouldn't have happened.
Sure, Vettel didn't have to slice across, but he was in front and is entitled to do so. The guy behind needs to take evasive action. There was lots of room to the right .
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Crash was Vettel's fault 100%. That said I will be rooting for him the rest of the way. If he can win the WDC this season it will be the greatest championship win of all time in the sport, I believe.
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I don't understand this? So Seb should have laid back and let Max pass him into turn one and hope he could have stayed second? Maybe just to be safe he could have let Kimi by, then Ricciardo just too make sure he wouldn't get hit. It's not the last race and all he has to do is finish in the top ten. His game plan is too win as many races as he can. You don't do that by letting people by you and playing safe.
He protected his lead, he was ahead of Max and had the right to move across the track. Max had to make way for him, he was beaten by both Ferrari's off the line. Is he to go into all the next races just looking to finish...
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why?
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Singapore F1 Start accident: Were Raikkonen, Verstappen and Vettel all entitled to go for it?
Posted By: James Allen | 18 Sep 2017 | 12:01 pm GMT | 5 comments
There has been huge interest in the three way startline accident in Singapore which eliminated Sebastian Vettel, Kimi Raikkonen and Max Verstappen and handed victory and a handsome points lead to Lewis Hamilton.
So was anyone to blame? What is the case for each driver?
The FIA stewards heard from all three but decided that no single individual could be held responsible for the accident. That was a relief to Vettel, who has 7 penalty points on his licence and has had his fair share of warnings, especially after Baku. At 12 points a driver receives a one race ban?
All three are entitled to race. Vettel is entitled to make one covering move and he did. Kimi is entitled to try to capitalise on one of his best ever starts and Max is entitled to stay on his line, having got a better launch.
That’s why the stewards called it evens.
The case against Raikkonen
Of the three Raikkonen got the best start. He powered off the line and the onboard shot from Verstappen’s car clearly shows how much more momentum the Finn had as he came past on the left like a missile.
Raikkonen had about a metre and a half to the pit wall to play with on the left. The problem was that as he came through, his right rear wheel hit Verstappen’s left front. There was nothing Verstappen could have done to avoid that. He moves very slightly to the left as he sees Vettel coming across.
Had everyone stayed on their line and there was no contact, Raikkonen would certainly have got the ‘holeshot’ and although his angle into Turn 1 would have been tight, he would likely have been in the lead as the cars snaked right for Turn 2.
The case against Verstappen
Verstappen got the second best start. It was immediately clear from the head-on TV shot of the lights out that Verstappen’s launch was superior to Vettel’s ahead to his right on pole. That momentum continues through the acceleration phase and if no-one changes lines from this point, Verstappen will arrive at the braking point for Turn 1 ahead of Vettel.
Drivers can always sense immediately if someone around them has got a better launch. Their senses are hyper-alert to it and Verstappen knew that he had a real chance to beat Vettel into Turn 1, especially as he would have the inside line.
He may not have been aware of just how fast Raikkonen was travelling up to his left, as he was focussed on Vettel coming across on him from the right, knowing that he is compromised.
Verstappen changes line slightly to the left in anticipation and that is enough to put him on a trajectory where Raikkonen’s right rear runs over Verstappen’s left front, which caused the accident. It broke Verstappen’s suspension and also sent Raikkonen into the side of Vettel.
Some fans have suggested that Verstappen “should have lifted off”, but the trajectory would not have changed by doing that – he cannot simply disappear – and the critical first contact was that touch of Raikkonen’s rear wheel as he went past. That was all about the line.
The case against Vettel
Vettel had the most at risk as he was the one fighting for the world title. It seems he forgot that in the heat of the moment. His ‘sorry’ to the team on the radio as he parked his damaged car said it all and is the true verdict on the matter.
However, he is racing and as the pole position man, he is entitled to move across once to defend his line.
The head on shot and the on board from Verstappen’s car show that Vettel moved across a long way and kept on coming. Ultimately this is what caused the accident as there was nowhere for the three drivers to go on a converging trajectory. Seen from the outside it seems simple and inevitable.
One could argue that with seven races to go and at the start of a two hour race where his title rival Hamilton is starting in fifth place, Vettel should have taken the long view.
But his mindset will have been affected by the rain that was falling and the fact that in recent years Hamilton has won virtually all the wet or rain affected races. As Hamilton said afterwards, “As soon as it rained I knew where I was going to finish. I knew I had the pace when it rains. Unfortunately we just didn’t have the car in the dry.
“But today, with it raining, those are my conditions.”
In a dry race, with a start like that Vettel would have approached it differently, knowing that the threat from Hamilton was less significant. But in the wet he could not afford to give anything away at the start, hence the insistence on the move across.
Vettel’s move was reminiscent of some similar moves that Michael Schumacher made off the startline in his Ferrari days, which was a talking point at the time in Drivers’ Briefings, as the rules on what was and wasn’t acceptable at the start were defined.
Ultimately the price he has paid has been high. Not only is it a fourth win in five races for Hamilton and a 28 point lead, but it’s another moment which casts some doubt in the mind of Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne. He sees things in black and white and the objective here is for Ferrari to win the world championship.
They have built a wonderful car this year, whereas the Mercedes is a bit tricky and temperamental. And yet Ferrari finds itself now out of control of the championship, not least due to valuable points dropped in Baku and Singapore.
Ferrari’s long winless streak creates nervousness in the team and missing out this year will create greater nerviness next year. In that scenario one can imagine a leader like Marchionne deciding next summer that he needs another hot rod in his second car.
That is the risk for Vettel.
How JA on F1 readers call it
JA on F1 readers have taken part in a snap poll with over 2000 voting in a few hours and clearly 75% call it Vettel’s fault.
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/...-to-go-for-it/
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Yes, Seb should have let Max pass him if it came to that. Seb should have let Max win the race if it came to that. Seb does not need to beat or worry about either Red Bull driver/car. He needs to beat the Mercs. Michael, in his prime, would have kept the ultimate prize in mind and let Max go, then passed him during his pitstop and gone on to win the race.
What you saw is the result of Max and Seb tangling on multiple occasions the last two season ever since Max got into the Red Bull, and Seb having that on his mind at the start of this race and not the championship. 100% on Seb.
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The incident wasn't any of the 3 drivers' fault. They all did what they are wired to do instinctively and unfortunately tangled. It's racing and Ferrari will be back next race.
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I was sitting at turn 1 btw
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