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Thread: 2017 Singapore Airlines Grand Prix - Race

  1. #751
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    Easy to say Vettel took too much risk after looking at the outcome.

    But that's not how decisions are made. Vettel, as with any drivers, can only make decision based on whatever information they know.
    And as far as Vettel knew, there was plenty of room for Max. Neither realize that Kimi would be on the left shortly after.

    Take Kimi out of the picture, and it would have been a mundane defensive move we've seen a thousand times. Not sure what's hard to understand about this.

    You can't expect any race driver to go into a race thinking he'll yield to anyone just to make sure he finishes the race. Lewis was already in the WDC lead, we do not have the luxury of playing safe.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Easy to say Vettel took too much risk after looking at the outcome.

    But that's not how decisions are made. Vettel, as with any drivers, can only make decision based on whatever information they know.
    And as far as Vettel knew, there was plenty of room for Max. Neither realize that Kimi would be on the left shortly after.

    Take Kimi out of the picture, and it would have been a mundane defensive move we've seen a thousand times. Not sure what's hard to understand about this.

    You can't expect any race driver to go into a race thinking he'll yield to anyone just to make sure he finishes the race. Lewis was already in the WDC lead, we do not have the luxury of playing safe.
    Yup. This.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Strange... I didn't see him driving a Ferrari, I saw him sat on the sidelines watching the race, funny that.

    No max was already backed out of it once he saw kimi coming and vettel aggressively veering him within there tires that's why he was behind when they hit, vettel's trajectory would have put him straight into his own team mate.
    I'm pretty sure if Kimi had control of his car he would have avoided Vettel.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    No. You actually said that the team should have discussed a scenario before the race where Vettel should let Max by and settle for being second in to the first corner.
    That is exactly what the team should have reaffirmed to Seb before the race started. Second at the first corner does not mean second at the end of the race. You have to finish the race to earn points.

    Have you never seen an F1 driver win a race after not being in first after the first corner?

    Do you know where the winner of the GP on Sunday was after the first corner? He was not in first...

    How many times have you seen an F1 driver win a GP or even score points in a GP after crashing himself out of the race on the first lap?

    Do you realize that you can win a championship and earn more points than your championship rivals over the course of the season by not winning every GP?

    I asked you yesterday how many points did we earn in Singapore?

    I'll point out that the scenario that you and others are arguing for is what you got on Sunday. Again, how many points did the team earn when our #1 driver decided to force the issue before the first turn against a driver not even in the championship fight?

    Do you think that was a smart move, given the outcome?

    How many points???

    Would you rather be -28 in the WDC right now or tied for first b/c Vettel finished second and Lewis finished 3rd? Even Ricky Bobby learned that, in racing, sometimes second is just dandy.

    Crickets...

    You told me yesterday that Seb had to defend against his opponent and that is why he moved the way he did. Is his opponent for the title Max Verstappen, or Lewis Hamilton? I asked you that yesterday, you never answered.

    Where did Lewis start? Was he on the left of the grid and therefore likely to be shooting down the inside from two rows back at the start, and is that why Seb had to defend against his "opponent" by going left, to the opposite side of the grid that Hamilton started from?

    Guess what though...you and Seb got exactly what you want...Seb WAS in first after the first corner, so the move actually worked out didn't it. How many points did he earn by being first after the first corner?

    Every article I have read, every analysis of the start I have seen, is basically the same. Everybody is wanting to know what Seb was thinking w/ that move and everybody (except Ferrari's twitter feed...go figure) blames him for the incident.

    I also asked what the Italian press had to say about the race, and I'm most interested in what they had to say about Vettel's move. I doubt very much they are simply, "support the team."

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So Seb wasn't driving a Ferrari on Sunday....so the rest of your point is rather pointless.......

    Seb's move would have been perfectly fine if Kimi was not there simple really. Max never backed out of anything, he probably doesn't want to settle for 2nd either.....
    Yeah I'm sure Pastor Maldonado didn't want "to settle for second" either, let's use that argument on his first lap crashes too. What did you call it? Winning mentality? What do you win? The most important expensive piece of carbon fibre in the pileup?

    Your argument would make a whole lot of sense if it was applied to max since all he wants to do is win a race. Winning one race for vettel isn't going to win him the championship. Doesn't need to risk his whole championship fighting someone who isn't in it. Maybe it will sink in for you at the end of the year.
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  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Yeah I'm sure Pastor Maldonado didn't want "to settle for second" either, let's use that argument on his first lap crashes too. What did you call it? Winning mentality? What do you win? The most important expensive piece of carbon fibre in the pileup?

    Your argument would make a whole lot of sense if it was applied to max since all he wants to do is win a race. Winning one race for vettel isn't going to win him the championship. Doesn't need to risk his whole championship fighting someone who isn't in it. Maybe it will sink in for you at the end of the year.
    I can't recall Pastor ever having a crash on lap 1 when leading into turn 1, perhaps he has in other series so its a bit irrelevant again to Sunday....Seb was going for the win, Max is irrelevant he would have defended his line no matter who it was as he wanted to win the race, let that sink into your brain for a bit.

    Let me remind you of Hungary 2006, Alonso out of the race, did MS settle for some points? Nope he broke his car by trying to score as many points as possible and he like Seb is a winner with a winner mentality.....
    Forza Ferrari

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Easy to say Vettel took too much risk after looking at the outcome.

    But that's not how decisions are made. Vettel, as with any drivers, can only make decision based on whatever information they know.
    And as far as Vettel knew, there was plenty of room for Max. Neither realize that Kimi would be on the left shortly after.

    Take Kimi out of the picture, and it would have been a mundane defensive move we've seen a thousand times. Not sure what's hard to understand about this.

    You can't expect any race driver to go into a race thinking he'll yield to anyone just to make sure he finishes the race. Lewis was already in the WDC lead, we do not have the luxury of playing safe.
    I'm pretty sure that Vettel knew, at some point, that his rival for the championship was starting two rows behind him on the same side of the grid, not next to him on row one. When he forgot that, I don't know.

    B/c he forgot it though, we now have the luxury of a -28 pt. WDC deficit.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Even Ricky Bobby learned that, in racing, sometimes second is just dandy.

    LOL......SHAKE.........AND........BAKE!!!!!!

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I can't recall Pastor ever having a crash on lap 1 when leading into turn 1, perhaps he has in other series so its a bit irrelevant again to Sunday....Seb was going for the win, Max is irrelevant he would have defended his line no matter who it was as he wanted to win the race, let that sink into your brain for a bit.

    Let me remind you of Hungary 2006, Alonso out of the race, did MS settle for some points? Nope he broke his car by trying to score as many points as possible and he like Seb is a winner with a winner mentality.....
    Oh so your OK settling for second in the WDC at the end of the year but settling for second in the odd race is a sin and you should crash out instead. Good to know.
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  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Oh so your OK settling for second in the WDC at the end of the year but settling for second in the odd race is a sin and you should crash out instead. Good to know.
    Again you are talking nonsense, if Seb knew it would cause a crash he would not have done it. You make it sound like he knew it would cause a crash and end his race or something. And where did I say anything about settling for 2nd in the WDC in my post? oh I never.....
    Forza Ferrari

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Again you are talking nonsense, if Seb knew it would cause a crash he would not have done it. You make it sound like he knew it would cause a crash and end his race or something. And where did I say anything about settling for 2nd in the WDC in my post? oh I never.....
    He made a bad start, don't deny this his said so himself, which meant he knew people behind him made good ones and by going so dramatically to the left like that in a wet race bunching them all up together in his firing line is not what you would think someone would do fighting for the championship. He knew the risks and paid heavily.

    Your the one who mentioned Schumacher in 2006 who finished second to Alonso not me, which makes you sound like someone who is more interested in trying to win individual races than championships.
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  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    He made a bad start, don't deny this his said so himself, which meant he knew people behind him made good ones and by going so dramatically to the left like that in a wet race bunching them all up together in his firing line is not what you would think someone would do fighting for the championship. He knew the risks and paid heavily.

    Your the one who mentioned Schumacher in 2006 who finished second to Alonso not me, which makes you sound like someone who is more interested in trying to win individual races than championships.
    His start was not that bad and he had enough room to block Max he didn't know Kimi was there as I already said pretty simple to understand. I said Schumacher never settled for 2nd and broke his car even though Alonso was out so your a bit confused perhaps you never watched F1 back then.
    Forza Ferrari

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    His start was not that bad and he had enough room to block Max he didn't know Kimi was there as I already said pretty simple to understand. I said Schumacher never settled for 2nd and broke his car even though Alonso was out so your a bit confused perhaps you never watched F1 back then.
    Do you want a former F1 drivers opinion since you won't listen to anyone else?

    Ok here you go.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...eneuve-954827/
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Do you want a former F1 drivers opinion since you won't listen to anyone else?

    Ok here you go.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...eneuve-954827/
    Nobody is saying Seb was not to blame for it though? Seb said sorry already for it and that is not what is being discussed.....
    Forza Ferrari

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Nobody is saying Seb was not to blame for it though? Seb said sorry already for it and that is not what is being discussed.....
    Read the whole thing not just the headline
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  16. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Read the whole thing not just the headline
    I don't need to be told my opinion by JV, maybe you do though?
    Forza Ferrari

  17. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I don't need to be told my opinion by JV, maybe you do though?
    I'm not even sure if you know what your own opinion is.. all I hear is blablabla winning mentality blablabla doesn't settle for second
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  18. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post


    And congratulations for winning the gold medal in Eurobasket 2017!
    Thank you buddy, you were also playing very well.

  19. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    That is exactly what the team should have reaffirmed to Seb before the race started. Second at the first corner does not mean second at the end of the race. You have to finish the race to earn points.

    Have you never seen an F1 driver win a race after not being in first after the first corner?

    Do you know where the winner of the GP on Sunday was after the first corner? He was not in first...

    How many times have you seen an F1 driver win a GP or even score points in a GP after crashing himself out of the race on the first lap?

    Do you realize that you can win a championship and earn more points than your championship rivals over the course of the season by not winning every GP?

    I asked you yesterday how many points did we earn in Singapore?

    I'll point out that the scenario that you and others are arguing for is what you got on Sunday. Again, how many points did the team earn when our #1 driver decided to force the issue before the first turn against a driver not even in the championship fight?

    Do you think that was a smart move, given the outcome?

    How many points???

    Would you rather be -28 in the WDC right now or tied for first b/c Vettel finished second and Lewis finished 3rd? Even Ricky Bobby learned that, in racing, sometimes second is just dandy.

    Crickets...

    You told me yesterday that Seb had to defend against his opponent and that is why he moved the way he did. Is his opponent for the title Max Verstappen, or Lewis Hamilton? I asked you that yesterday, you never answered.

    Where did Lewis start? Was he on the left of the grid and therefore likely to be shooting down the inside from two rows back at the start, and is that why Seb had to defend against his "opponent" by going left, to the opposite side of the grid that Hamilton started from?

    Guess what though...you and Seb got exactly what you want...Seb WAS in first after the first corner, so the move actually worked out didn't it. How many points did he earn by being first after the first corner?

    Every article I have read, every analysis of the start I have seen, is basically the same. Everybody is wanting to know what Seb was thinking w/ that move and everybody (except Ferrari's twitter feed...go figure) blames him for the incident.

    I also asked what the Italian press had to say about the race, and I'm most interested in what they had to say about Vettel's move. I doubt very much they are simply, "support the team."
    This is a lot of hot wind. The facts are... Seb did what countless others have done and will do when they are on pole. He didn't do anything wrong. I don't think he knew Kimi was being crowded or that Max wasn't going to slow down.
    If the next time a pole sitter makes that move and the guy behind him doesn't move... whose fault is it? Do you think it will stop people from making that exact same move next time? These are done all the time and the driver's rely on the guy behind them to take evasive maneuvers. Max won't and didn't. He pretty much summed it up when he said he was planning on passing Vettel on the first lap. Why would a guy not even in the point chase even try to get involved in a title fight? Maybe he should have settled for 2nd.

    By the way, everyone on the race track is his opponent. If he is going to move over for 1 guy, then he might as well park the car or let them all through. The whole mentality of a racer is to win. Do you go into a competition and decide... "i'm only going to try for second today"?
    It was a great chance to get max points in singapore.. it didn't work but I wouldn't want to start settling for positions with 7 races to go and behind in the points.

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    I'm not even sure if you know what your own opinion is.. all I hear is blablabla winning mentality blablabla doesn't settle for second
    Explains why you need JV to tell you what to think I guess.......
    Forza Ferrari

  21. #771
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    It seems like JV is frustrated by this incident as we are :D Oh, he works for Italian media after all.

  22. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Explains why you need JV to tell you what to think I guess.......
    Just because he has the same view as me you think that it's because I copied his view? I've been saying this all along this article just got posted today
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  23. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Just because he has the same view as me you think that it's because I copied his view? I've been saying this all along this article just got posted today
    I am happy for you.
    Forza Ferrari

  24. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Take Kimi out of the picture, and it would have been a mundane defensive move we've seen a thousand times.
    Sure, but we can't take Kimi out of the picture, now can we? Maybe Seb should've just wen't slightly left instead of squeezing Max so much? I agree that we should cry less because no point in crying for spilled milk. However, Seb can't blame anyone but himself for what happened.

  25. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Sure, but we can't take Kimi out of the picture, now can we? Maybe Seb should've just wen't slightly left instead of squeezing Max so much? I agree that we should cry less because no point in crying for spilled milk. However, Seb can't blame anyone but himself for what happened.
    I hope he does feel bad. It's a pretty pathetic way to lose a championship and robbed everyone of an exciting race. Ferraris didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with that tweet blaming it on max either.
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  26. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    I hope he does feel bad. It's a pretty pathetic way to lose a championship and robbed everyone of an exciting race. Ferraris didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with that tweet blaming it on max either.
    I doubt he feels bad, he will already be focused on winning the next race.
    Forza Ferrari

  27. #777
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    For me was Kimi fault...


    Sent from F1 paddock

  28. #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo Goncalves View Post
    For me was Kimi fault...


    Sent from F1 paddock
    If he could avoid climb rear left tyre of Max this wouldn't ever happened.


    Sent from F1 paddock

  29. #779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo Goncalves View Post
    For me was Kimi fault...


    Sent from F1 paddock
    How come? Seb squeezed Max into Kimi.

  30. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    How come? Seb squeezed Max into Kimi.
    Kimi & ham had brilliant start.
    1. When Kimi was ahead max, Kimi kept his car towards right. Seb kept his car towards left. That squeezed max.

    Both kimi n mad max had good view of vet being ahead. Where as vet doesn't have any idea about where Kimi is.
    There's no room for Kimi to back out. But vet n mad max could have done better.
    Mad max could have slowed down n brake himself to let Kimi take 2nd position. As theres no one back of him to pose a serious threat.

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