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Thread: 2017 Suzuka Grand Prix - Race

  1. #541
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    Some one mentioned on AS could the new engine be running to lean and causing issues

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Don't bash me guys. Its just my opinion.
    Alonso with this current Ferrari car, would have had solid advantage over Hamilton by now. Even with two reliability problems from last 2 races, we would have had some pt advantage. Nothing to take off from vettel too, some stellar drives. But there are mistakes too (Baku, Singapore = 50). Driver like Alonso wouldn't have done such mistakes.
    Alonso is intelligent driver, pretty robust. Nothing to take off from his brilliant starts, wtever team he is driving. His race starts are excellent.

    Anyways focusing on next year's car n next 4 races is imp for Ferrari. Which could give some momentum going into next year.

    You desrve a bash! Alonso left the team so why even bring up his name? Rubbish post! Yes blame Vettel but dont bring up someone who walked out on the team and cost us the 2008 WDC with the Piquet crash singapore scam.

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Don't bash me guys. Its just my opinion.
    Alonso with this current Ferrari car, would have had solid advantage over Hamilton by now. Even with two reliability problems from last 2 races, we would have had some pt advantage. Nothing to take off from vettel too, some stellar drives. But there are mistakes too (Baku, Singapore = 50). Driver like Alonso wouldn't have done such mistakes.
    Alonso is intelligent driver, pretty robust. Nothing to take off from his brilliant starts, wtever team he is driving. His race starts are excellent.

    Anyways focusing on next year's car n next 4 races is imp for Ferrari. Which could give some momentum going into next year.
    Absolute Who says? he had thrown his championship with running into Kimi at Japan in 2012.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Don't bash me guys. Its just my opinion.
    Alonso with this current Ferrari car, would have had solid advantage over Hamilton by now. Even with two reliability problems from last 2 races, we would have had some pt advantage. Nothing to take off from vettel too, some stellar drives. But there are mistakes too (Baku, Singapore = 50). Driver like Alonso wouldn't have done such mistakes.
    Alonso is intelligent driver, pretty robust. Nothing to take off from his brilliant starts, wtever team he is driving. His race starts are excellent.

    Anyways focusing on next year's car n next 4 races is imp for Ferrari. Which could give some momentum going into next year.
    You're just embarrassing yourself. Alonso made plenty of mistakes in 2010 and 2012, without which he could have won titles in both of those years. Alonso was certainly more to blame for his crashing out in Suzuka 2012 than Vettel was for what happened in Singapore 2017.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireblade View Post
    You're just embarrassing yourself. Alonso made plenty of mistakes in 2010 and 2012, without which he could have won titles in both of those years. Alonso was certainly more to blame for his crashing out in Suzuka 2012 than Vettel was for what happened in Singapore 2017.
    He is clueless, he has no idea what he is talking about.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by GimiKimi View Post
    You desrve a bash! Alonso left the team so why even bring up his name? Rubbish post! Yes blame Vettel but dont bring up someone who walked out on the team and cost us the 2008 WDC with the Piquet crash singapore scam.
    Erm you can't blame Alonso for our errors, and Massa made a few himself.....
    Forza Ferrari

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireblade View Post
    You're just embarrassing yourself. Alonso made plenty of mistakes in 2010 and 2012, without which he could have won titles in both of those years. Alonso was certainly more to blame for his crashing out in Suzuka 2012 than Vettel was for what happened in Singapore 2017.
    what mistakes?

  8. #548
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    Not to on the bonfire, but I also agree with nani_s23 that Alonso would be leading the championship now if he was still with Ferrari. Alonso is still a very strong driver to this day, he continues to impress in that dog-of-a-car McLaren has given him. It's a shame Alonso back in 2014 had no confidence that Ferrari would be able to improve by so much. There must have been changes and circumstances unforeseen by him such as management and staff shakeup etc.

    To those of him who thinks his mistakes in 2012 costed him a shot at a title with Ferrari, here's my take: If you remember the 2012 season clearly, it might become apparent to you that Alonso did not make any mistakes on his own during that season. It's not correct to lay the blame on Alonso for the his DNF's in Spa and Suzuka 2012. Spa was the complete fault of Grosjean, while Alonso and Kimi's coming together at Suzuka was a racing incident.

    But this talk is all hypothetical and meaningless (yes I know) because Alonso isn't with Ferrari anymore, so I'll stop there.

    This is my opinion, do not bash if you disagree.

  9. #549
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    Sergio Marchione is men who made this team, and he know what is speaking. He is one of the best maneger in the world and FCA can be happy that they have him. Just look what car now make Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferrari and Ferrari F1 this year are beanig close to title.

  10. #550
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    I dont think Alonso is as good as people make him out to be. Best racer? Probably. Best qualifier? Not by a long shot. Tbh after changing his drive style, Vandoorne is pretty much matching him for one lap pace and in todays formula, starting from 2nd is not a way to get on highest podium place. Seb never blames team or car, while Alonso never forgets to mention how good he drove and pretty much outdrove the car. Lool at sebs lap in Suzuka against Ham or even Bottas. In S1 and 2 he left not one tenth in that car and everyone is gushing over Hamilton.

    Alonso beating Kimi in F14AT doesnt mean much as he is known for driving fantastically with bad cars, while Kimi is exact opposite.

    Only thing Vettel did wrong was Singapore (not even that wrong tbh, just set of circumsntaces) and Baku road rage when being 2nd and being pushed onto Force Indias with engine that has done 6 races already. Dont forget Bottas being 1st when Ham was nowhere also is never mentioned while Kimi was nowhere whenever Ham won.

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Erm you can't blame Alonso for our errors, and Massa made a few himself.....
    If he knew about the planned Piquet crash which I think he did then the circumstances lead to Massa and the team panicking at that emergency pitstop. Still blame him and of course anyone saying "If we stilll had Alosno" is talking baloney. He walked out of the team saying he has no faith in Ferrari and his dream team is and has always been McLaren. Cleary the last team he will ever wont to see win the WDC is Ferrari as this will prove he made the wrong decision. We all saw how he held up Vettel last time. He is the enemy imo. Good thing he wont ever driver for us again

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    I dont think Alonso is as good as people make him out to be. Best racer? Probably. Best qualifier? Not by a long shot. Tbh after changing his drive style, Vandoorne is pretty much matching him for one lap pace and in todays formula, starting from 2nd is not a way to get on highest podium place. Seb never blames team or car, while Alonso never forgets to mention how good he drove and pretty much outdrove the car. Lool at sebs lap in Suzuka against Ham or even Bottas. In S1 and 2 he left not one tenth in that car and everyone is gushing over Hamilton.

    Alonso beating Kimi in F14AT doesnt mean much as he is known for driving fantastically with bad cars, while Kimi is exact opposite.

    Only thing Vettel did wrong was Singapore (not even that wrong tbh, just set of circumsntaces) and Baku road rage when being 2nd and being pushed onto Force Indias with engine that has done 6 races already. Dont forget Bottas being 1st when Ham was nowhere also is never mentioned while Kimi was nowhere whenever Ham won.
    Hi mate, agree with you partially.
    Best racer, yes.
    Best qualifier no. But atleast he would be on 2nd row with this car. Considering his starts I would take that. Considering his race pace n managing tyres I would take that.

    Just look at earlier post clearly. Did I mention anything of his behaviour ???? I'm just talking about his skills.
    Yes I do agree abt his behaviour at times awkward. But ultimately he has that raw pace to challenge top guys.

    Singapore mistake at that race point looks small. Baku incident looks small at that point
    But now it's momentum is changed. These things looks bigger now. To mention again I'm not saying Vettel did all mistakes, he drove superb at other races. But letting his emotions on track is costing him much.
    He's on the verge of penalty of race ban.

    To put it clean n crispy. Vet drove good, but with Alonso we would have been little higher that's my statement nothing more to add.
    Last edited by nani_s23; 8th October 2017 at 16:32.

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by GimiKimi View Post
    If he knew about the planned Piquet crash which I think he did then the circumstances lead to Massa and the team panicking at that emergency pitstop. Still blame him and of course anyone saying "If we stilll had Alosno" is talking baloney. He walked out of the team saying he has no faith in Ferrari and his dream team is and has always been McLaren. Cleary the last team he will ever wont to see win the WDC is Ferrari as this will prove he made the wrong decision. We all saw how he held up Vettel last time. He is the enemy imo. Good thing he wont ever driver for us again
    It was just a normal pitstop really, Ferrari ignored previous issues they had with the traffic light system and Massa paid the full price. 2008 should really have been our title either for Kimi or Massa but it was not really down to Alonso or crashgate.
    Forza Ferrari

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1NAC View Post
    Absolute Who says? he had thrown his championship with running into Kimi at Japan in 2012.
    Wt happened in 2010???? Kindly plz

  15. #555
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    I will go as far as take this current Ferrari with a better PU and trash Merc and RB with it in 2018.

  16. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by GimiKimi View Post
    You desrve a bash! Alonso left the team so why even bring up his name? Rubbish post! Yes blame Vettel but dont bring up someone who walked out on the team and cost us the 2008 WDC with the Piquet crash singapore scam.
    Hi mate, massa left long ago, Micheal Schumi left, Nikki Lauda left, Villeneuve left, Kimi left n joined back. Why are we still talking abt them ?? Is Alonso an exception???

    I'm presenting my view that's it. That's why I clearly mentioned don't bash me.

    To be honest, keep behaviour apart. Majority of this forum members n my dear frnds feel the same. Alonso can take this car to the lead. I'm saying keep behaviour apart.

    On pure driving skills n race cart. This car in the hands of alonso would be leading the points table apart reliability issues. I feel majority of them agree with it. Be honest.

    I'm once again mentioning behaviour apart.

  17. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    It was just a normal pitstop really, Ferrari ignored previous issues they had with the traffic light system and Massa paid the full price. 2008 should really have been our title either for Kimi or Massa but it was not really down to Alonso or crashgate.
    Singapore gp pit stop error seems to be costly in 2008??
    History repeated this year Singapore gp changed the momentum Its my feeling.

  18. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfsmith View Post
    I will go as far as take this current Ferrari with a better PU and trash Merc and RB with it in 2018.
    I absolutely agree with it.
    Ferrari has good chasis, need extra HP's from that PU.

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Hi mate, agree with you partially.
    Best racer, yes.
    Best qualifier no. But atleast he would be on 2nd row with this car. Considering his starts I would take that. Considering his race pace n managing tyres I would take that.

    Just look at earlier post clearly. Did I mention anything of his behaviour ???? I'm just talking about his skills.
    Yes I do agree abt his behaviour at times awkward. But ultimately he has that raw pace to challenge top guys.

    Singapore mistake at that race point looks small. Baku incident looks small at that point
    But now it's momentum is changed. These things looks bigger now. To mention again I'm not saying Vettel did all mistakes, he drove superb at other races. But letting his emotions on track is costing him much.
    He's on the verge of penalty of race ban.

    To put it clean n crispy. Vet drove good, but with Alonso we would have been little higher that's my statement nothing more to add.
    Hi Im currently on phone so wont be able to respond fully, but Sebs pace and tire preservation has been exceptional this year. Many times he was flat out fastest in the race because Ferraris engine still lacks 1-2 tenths (and more before latest update) to Merc one. Starting every qualification with that deficit is not easy especially against elite driver like Lewis (who outqualified and outraced Alonso in his rookie year)

  20. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    It's not really a given that Seb would have won Baku and Singapore maybe Baku you can claim but Singapore we have no idea if the car would have liked the conditions.
    Yeah Greig, but it was not totally wet conditions right. It's drying track. So if you lead obviously you would get good view of the track. And also seb had good start n Kimi too.

    I'm not entirely blaming Vettel, but a 4WC shouldn't be making that kind of move. If Kimi was not there, max vet n Kimi would have survived easily.
    Last edited by nani_s23; 8th October 2017 at 16:43.

  21. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Hi mate, massa left long ago, Micheal Schumi left, Nikki Lauda left, Villeneuve left, Kimi left n joined back. Why are we still talking abt them ?? Is Alonso an exception???

    I'm presenting my view that's it. That's why I clearly mentioned don't bash me.

    To be honest, keep behaviour apart. Majority of this forum members n my dear frnds feel the same. Alonso can take this car to the lead. I'm saying keep behaviour apart.

    On pure driving skills n race cart. This car in the hands of alonso would be leading the points table apart reliability issues. I feel majority of them agree with it. Be honest.

    I'm once again mentioning behaviour apart.
    So the guy is who is behind his rookie teammate in WDC would do better, OK right.

    Alonso couldn't even handle a rookie Hamilton in 2007 "in the same car" and he is going to do now against Hamilton in Merdeces, pipe dream....

  22. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Hi Im currently on phone so wont be able to respond fully, but Sebs pace and tire preservation has been exceptional this year. Many times he was flat out fastest in the race because Ferraris engine still lacks 1-2 tenths (and more before latest update) to Merc one. Starting every qualification with that deficit is not easy especially against elite driver like Lewis (who outqualified and outraced Alonso in his rookie year)
    Alonso vs ham 2007. We cannot start it again.
    We know how Dennis showed his loyalty towards ham or Alonso.

    Wt I'm saying is. Vet drove good, but Alonso slightly above Vettel in the same car.

  23. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    So the guy is who is behind his rookie teammate in WDC would do better, OK right.

    Alonso couldn't even handle a rookie Hamilton in 2007 "in the same car" and he is going to do now against Hamilton in Merdeces, pipe dream....
    Kindly let me know wt happ to vet vs ric 2014????

    2007 equal on points ...how could you say Alonso was thrashed????

  24. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Kindly let me know wt happ to vet vs ric 2014????

    2007 equal on points ...how could you say Alonso was thrashed????
    He was embarrassingly slow compared to compared to Hamilton, especially towards the end of the season. They only ended up at the same point after Hamilton made a few rookie mistakes on the last 2 GP and blew 17 points lead in WDC (like beaching his car at the pit entry. If I recall correctly he was about half a minute in front at the time) .
    Last edited by DelMar; 8th October 2017 at 16:56.

  25. #565
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    Ric was faster then Seb that there is no doubt. But for Seb, that was year of new regs, that was time where he could see that his team and Renault engine will need at least 3 (now we know its more) years to get back on championship fighting level. Ric came along and had nothing to lose, he had fun and didnt mind performances of car. Seb also had worse luck at beginning of season when he actually was leading in quali battel (had more pts at Monaco and was leading Ric there but retired after 5 laps).

    Alonso on the other hand came up against rookie in champ winning car and was slower in quali and race. Lewis braifart cost him title that year. This year Alonso is behind Stoffel.and eversince stoffel changes his style he is matching him for speed over one lap.

    Personally I dont think Ham would won with this Ferrari. Bottas matched him over one lap till summer break and whenever he was slower (Russia and Austria) Bottas defended like hell to take pts of from vettel (not to mention Spain or Bahrain). Kimi never did that.

  26. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Ric was faster then Seb that there is no doubt. But for Seb, that was year of new regs, that was time where he could see that his team and Renault engine will need at least 3 (now we know its more) years to get back on championship fighting level. Ric came along and had nothing to lose, he had fun and didnt mind performances of car. Seb also had worse luck at beginning of season when he actually was leading in quali battel (had more pts at Monaco and was leading Ric there but retired after 5 laps).

    Alonso on the other hand came up against rookie in champ winning car and was slower in quali and race. Lewis braifart cost him title that year. This year Alonso is behind Stoffel.and eversince stoffel changes his style he is matching him for speed over one lap.

    Personally I dont think Ham would won with this Ferrari. Bottas matched him over one lap till summer break and whenever he was slower (Russia and Austria) Bottas defended like hell to take pts of from vettel (not to mention Spain or Bahrain). Kimi never did that.

    These regulations changes adapting to car n new rules looks silly reasons. Talking point after vet vs ric in 2014 is vet got thrashed by ric this is what everyone talks.

    Next year if max screw ric....that's wt they talk.

    One straight question please answer

    For WCC - can you guarantee with line of vet & Kimi ???
    Or vet & Alonso ? Or Alonso & Kimi ???

    For WDC both Alonso n vet in same team. With good car.
    Who do u think will take title ??? Be honest please. Straight fwd answer who comes to your mind first.

  27. #567
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    I would pick Vettel in a good car as I think he is simply put better qualifier then Alonso. Alonso for me has better racecraft but in todays formula it means jack... as you cannot follow anyone under 2 seconds let alone same car.

    If we are talking bad cars, then definitely Alonso.

    Another point of mine that is missed is that Vettel was either 1st or 2nd in first 6-7 races of the year. Much better then Ham, and in inferior car. Yet Kimi never was first like Bottas was when Hamilton was nowhere (and he never was there to block Ham like Bottas did). Literally, Vettel was driving against 2 Mercs for first half of year.

  28. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    These regulations changes adapting to car n new rules looks silly reasons. Talking point after vet vs ric in 2014 is vet got thrashed by ric this is what everyone talks.

    Next year if max screw ric....that's wt they talk.

    One straight question please answer

    For WCC - can you guarantee with line of vet & Kimi ???
    Or vet & Alonso ? Or Alonso & Kimi ???

    For WDC both Alonso n vet in same team. With good car.
    Who do u think will take title ??? Be honest please. Straight fwd answer who comes to your mind first.

    Vettel will beat Alonso in the same car - easy!!

    Vettel = faster in Q
    Equal Alonso in race pace
    Better in wet than Alonso

    So I cant see the edge.

    As for Hamitlon

    Better in Q than Alonso
    Better in race pace than Alsono
    And def a lot better in wet than Alonso

    The last time and ONLY time Alonso had a good car and an equally competitive team mate was in 2007 and he lost.

    End of story!

  29. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Singer View Post
    Exactly my history too! I began as a Jackie Stewart fan (my first GP: Brands Hatch 1972!). Supported Tyrrell then followed Jody to Ferrari via Wolf. The bug got me and it's been Ferrari ever since. Can be a tough road though!

    We will win again and Ferrari will ALWAYS be Ferrari, the greatest sports car and Grand Prix brand ever.

    #ForzaFerrari
    A tough road it certainly is. My F1 history began at Monza in '67 when I had to witness a Surtees/Honda win, but the atmosphere of Monza and passion of the Tifosi meant I became one and have never lapsed. I loved Gilles too, and admit to not having a patriotic British bone in my body, at least as far as F1 is concerned! But these last 3 races have been very cruel.
    Last edited by wisepie; 8th October 2017 at 17:15.

  30. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    I would pick Vettel in a good car as I think he is simply put better qualifier then Alonso. Alonso for me has better racecraft but in todays formula it means jack... as you cannot follow anyone under 2 seconds let alone same car.
    I can't argue more. You can't follow another car when the tyre performance is minimum. If you make your strategy work, you can push to the maximum with these cars.
    Ric showed couple of times this year by stating that long. N making his strategy work.
    Look at ric quali pace, but still he's consistent podium finisher on the current grid.

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