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Thread: 2017 Suzuka Grand Prix - Race

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I can't argue more. You can't follow another car when the tyre performance is minimum. If you make your strategy work, you can push to the maximum with these cars.
    Ric showed couple of times this year by stating that long. N making his strategy work.
    Look at ric quali pace, but still he's consistent podium finisher on the current grid.
    Ric would have been behind Verstappen in almost all races, had his teammate not retired.

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by GimiKimi View Post
    Vettel will beat Alonso in the same car - easy!!

    Vettel = faster in Q
    Equal Alonso in race pace
    Better in wet than Alonso

    So I cant see the edge.

    As for Hamitlon

    Better in Q than Alonso
    Better in race pace than Alsono
    And def a lot better in wet than Alonso

    The last time and ONLY time Alonso had a good car and an equally competitive team mate was in 2007 and he lost.

    End of story!
    Wowwww made my day. Thanks.

    The same question which I asked to my frnd 'dark child's,
    Asking you again wt happened to vet in 2014 vs ric. Same car ?

    And you said Alonso had good car in 2007. Everyone here knows the story of Dennis supporting ham. I got a point from your statement. Which is vet in 2010 vs Alonso ....
    But still Alonso took to the last race, if not pit strategy error. Alonso would have won 3rd WDC in non best car vs RB beast.

    In 2012 too he had the best chance with that good car vs beast. N you say not best racer, not best in wet. Gr8

    Did you watch Alonso wet race starts & wet racing ???
    Last edited by nani_s23; 8th October 2017 at 17:15.

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Ric was faster then Seb that there is no doubt. But for Seb, that was year of new regs, that was time where he could see that his team and Renault engine will need at least 3 (now we know its more) years to get back on championship fighting level. Ric came along and had nothing to lose, he had fun and didnt mind performances of car. Seb also had worse luck at beginning of season when he actually was leading in quali battel (had more pts at Monaco and was leading Ric there but retired after 5 laps).
    This is a very petty excuse. If Ric who was a newbie in a new team can adapt then so should a 4 time world champion in a team he knows very well. This is a huge smear in Seb's career and it would be interesting to see a rematch in the same car. (same goes for Lewis vs Alonso) I'm not saying Ric is the better driver, but just saying that he managed to defeat Vettel, a four time world champion in the same car. Nevertheless, everyone deserves a rematch, so it would be interesting to see Ric and Seb in the same car again. If Max goes to Merc 2019, signing Ric would be nice.

    As for Ric, his reputation might go down the drain if Max keeps constantly beating him. Max is a beast, if it wasn't for those technical DNFs, Ric would've been nowhere this season. Hope Ric can redeem himself as i'm rooting for him over Max. Like Ric's character more.
    Last edited by Stormy; 8th October 2017 at 17:14.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Ric would have been behind Verstappen in almost all races, had his teammate not retired.
    Now u r talking abt reliability.

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Alonso vs ham 2007. We cannot start it again.
    We know how Dennis showed his loyalty towards ham or Alonso.

    Wt I'm saying is. Vet drove good, but Alonso slightly above Vettel in the same car.
    After Dennis was blackmailed by Alonso.

    Let me guess you will be okay if you were blackmailed and threatend? What people dont seem to understand is that Alonso is getting his karma for the things he did Blackmail and using Ferrari stolen IP, Sinngapore 2008 and a raft of other things. He will be the moses of F1 - moving from one team to another team never to get that promised land of another WDC.

    I have high hopes and confidence that we will win 2018. I think the team is going to get a lot stronger and better. The car will evovlve while Merc will struggle to with their car.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Wowwww made my day. Thanks.

    The same question which I asked to my frnd 'dark child's,
    Asking you again wt happened to vet in 2014 vs ric. Same car ?
    That year Vettel's quali record was 7-10, exactly the same Lewis lost against Rosberg. Vettel also had a lot more issues throughout the season compared Ricciardo.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    This is a very petty excuse. If Ric who was a newbie in a new team can adapt then so should a 4 time world champion in a team he knows very well. This is a huge smear in Seb's career and it would be interesting to see a rematch in the same car. I'm not saying Ric is the better driver, but just saying that he managed to defeat Vettel, a four time world champion in the same car. Nevertheless, everyone deserves a rematch, so it would be interesting to see Ric and Seb in the same car again. If Max goes to Merc 2019, signing Ric would be nice.

    As for Ric, his reputation might go down the drain if Max keeps constantly beating him. Max is a beast, if it wasn't for those technical DNFs, Ric would've been nowhere this season. Hope Ric can redeem himself as i'm rooting for him over Max. Like Ric's character more.
    Its lousy excuse yes, but Kimi lost to Massa in his 3 years together (when taken average) and Alonso straight out lost to Hamilton in championship winning car. Im not saying Vettel is better then Ric but alot of luck and little pieces fell into place for Ric in that year as well.

    As for Max I think he woild straight out beat every driver out there next year. Would LOVE to have him at Ferrari.

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    That year Vettel's quali record was 7-10, exactly the same Lewis lost against Rosberg. Vettel also had a lot more issues throughout the season compared Ricciardo.
    Vettel lost fair and square against Ric that year. But he lost in car that had no hopes of challanging anything. Hard to take after 4years of championships.

    Alonso on the other hand lost to Lewis who came as rookie and was beaten in best car in f1 that year.

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Vettel lost fair and square against Ric that year. But he lost in car that had no hopes of challanging anything. Hard to take after 4years of championships.

    Alonso on the other hand lost to Lewis who came as rookie and was beaten in best car in f1 that year.
    Ham lost to Rosberg last year. Does that mean Rosberg is better ???

    And you were saying, Alonso lost to ham. So equal on points means lost.???

    And Some one is saying some blackmailing stuff.
    He wasn't getting the preference that he used to get being 2WC. He expressed his feelings. From 2nd half of season Dennis took ham side n was giving ham preference in terms of pit stop strategies. Even Dennis admitted that recently when he re-signed Alonso to McLaren .

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Its lousy excuse yes, but Kimi lost to Massa in his 3 years together (when taken average) and Alonso straight out lost to Hamilton in championship winning car. Im not saying Vettel is better then Ric but alot of luck and little pieces fell into place for Ric in that year as well.

    As for Max I think he woild straight out beat every driver out there next year. Would LOVE to have him at Ferrari.
    If you see reliability as a factor. Vet vs Webber should not be missed. Webber had lot of DNF's then ???

  11. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post

    Alonso on the other hand lost to Lewis who came as rookie and was beaten in best car in f1 that year.
    IMO, Alonso lost his "will" to race after knowing his boss, RD, favoured a rookie over him.....hence that whole fiasco between Alonso and Mclaren as a form of payback. Alonso paid for it though....big time....and still is.

    Seb and Alonso in todays car....yep, both titles would be tight with the Mercs.

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    If you see reliability as a factor. Vet vs Webber should not be missed. Webber had lot of DNF's then ???
    The other way around....
    Vettel for instance lost 3 wins due to car issues in 2010 and still beat Webber and Alonso to the title in 2010

  13. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    IMO, Alonso lost his "will" to race after knowing his boss, RD, favoured a rookie over him.....hence that whole fiasco between Alonso and Mclaren as a form of payback. Alonso paid for it though....big time....and still is.

    Seb and Alonso in todays car....yep, both titles would be tight with the Mercs.
    Spot on mate . I'm trying to put this, but I couldn't.

    Wts your view on vet vs Alonso in same car. Ignore mercs.
    Just Ferrari vs Ferrari car. Who would come out as title winner.???

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    The other way around....
    Vettel for instance lost 3 wins due to car issues in 2010 and still beat Webber and Alonso to the title in 2010
    2010 is pretty avg car for Ferrari. Vs vet RB considered as beast car

  15. #585
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    My point still stands. Alonso was slower then Ham who was rookie coming into F1. It would be similar if Max came as rookie (not from STR, but 100% rookie) into Merc and got Hamilton shooked.

    Alonso for me is BEST RACER and teamates cannot beat him in bad car. But he likes slight understeer, he can drive around problems, but when car is perfectly inline with what driver wants he would not beat at least 3 drivers on grid (Ham,Max, Seb and Ric) in qualis. Therefore with these new cars he would struggle to take on them starting from 2nd place.

    Rosberg is fine fine driver but even in 2016 he needed perfect reliability and Hamiltons worst luck (4 DNFs I think) to barely beat him. He did beat him in 2014 in qualis fair and square but his race craft was not top form before 2016.

    In any case drivers go through motions and ups and downs. Vettel was flat out best driver till Monza
    He didnt make a single mistake bar Baku (which was road rage not driving error). He also had worse luck then any of front 3 (double change of engines before summer) yet all he got was 1st and 2nd places. Hamilton for all his good performance drove best car in Q and when he was out of shape (something vettel never was this year) Bottas covered him (Russia, Austria, Spain and Bahrain). Kimi didnt do the same for Vettel.

    For me Vettel Alonso pairing would he toxic but incredibly fast. In great car would definitely pick 7yr old younger Vettel though just because he would nick him in qualis.

  16. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    My point still stands. Alonso was slower then Ham who was rookie coming into F1. It would be similar if Max came as rookie (not from STR, but 100% rookie) into Merc and got Hamilton shooked.

    Alonso for me is BEST RACER and teamates cannot beat him in bad car. But he likes slight understeer, he can drive around problems, but when car is perfectly inline with what driver wants he would not beat at least 3 drivers on grid (Ham,Max, Seb and Ric) in qualis. Therefore with these new cars he would struggle to take on them starting from 2nd place.

    Rosberg is fine fine driver but even in 2016 he needed perfect reliability and Hamiltons worst luck (4 DNFs I think) to barely beat him. He did beat him in 2014 in qualis fair and square but his race craft was not top form before 2016.

    In any case drivers go through motions and ups and downs. Vettel was flat out best driver till Monza
    He didnt make a single mistake bar Baku (which was road rage not driving error). He also had worse luck then any of front 3 (double change of engines before summer) yet all he got was 1st and 2nd places. Hamilton for all his good performance drove best car in Q and when he was out of shape (something vettel never was this year) Bottas covered him (Russia, Austria, Spain and Bahrain). Kimi didnt do the same for Vettel.

    For me Vettel Alonso pairing would he toxic but incredibly fast. In great car would definitely pick 7yr old younger Vettel though just because he would nick him in qualis.

  17. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Now u r talking abt reliability.
    Nope, I am just arguing against your reason for Ricciardo being on the podium often this year. He just benefited a lot from other misfortunes.

    Baku Ricciardo won and he was way behind Max. Max retires with car issue. Bottas takes himself and Kimi out first lap. Lewis headrest issue. Vettel front wing + penalty.
    Canada, Max damages Vettel's front wing and sends him to the back, then Max retires with car issue a few laps later (again was in front of Ricciardo)
    Monaco, Verstappen in front of Daniel. Red bull botches his pit stop, undercut fails and Max is stuck behind Bottas.
    Singapore Vettel, Kimi, Max retires in first lap crash.
    Spain, Bottas hits Kimi which in turn hits Max on first lap. Max and Kimi retire, Bottas later retires with engine issue from P3.
    etc, etc...

  18. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    My point still stands. Alonso was slower then Ham who was rookie coming into F1. It would be similar if Max came as rookie (not from STR, but 100% rookie) into Merc and got Hamilton shooked.

    Alonso for me is BEST RACER and teamates cannot beat him in bad car. But he likes slight understeer, he can drive around problems, but when car is perfectly inline with what driver wants he would not beat at least 3 drivers on grid (Ham,Max, Seb and Ric) in qualis. Therefore with these new cars he would struggle to take on them starting from 2nd place.

    Rosberg is fine fine driver but even in 2016 he needed perfect reliability and Hamiltons worst luck (4 DNFs I think) to barely beat him. He did beat him in 2014 in qualis fair and square but his race craft was not top form before 2016.

    In any case drivers go through motions and ups and downs. Vettel was flat out best driver till Monza
    He didnt make a single mistake bar Baku (which was road rage not driving error). He also had worse luck then any of front 3 (double change of engines before summer) yet all he got was 1st and 2nd places. Hamilton for all his good performance drove best car in Q and when he was out of shape (something vettel never was this year) Bottas covered him (Russia, Austria, Spain and Bahrain). Kimi didnt do the same for Vettel.

    For me Vettel Alonso pairing would he toxic but incredibly fast. In great car would definitely pick 7yr old younger Vettel though just because he would nick him in qualis.
    I want Ferrari to consider Leclerc in that 2nd seat. Against Vettel he would learn alot n Leclerc will gain alot.

  19. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    IMO, Alonso lost his "will" to race after knowing his boss, RD, favoured a rookie over him.....hence that whole fiasco between Alonso and Mclaren as a form of payback. Alonso paid for it though....big time....and still is.

    Seb and Alonso in todays car....yep, both titles would be tight with the Mercs.
    Ah that explains why Ron hampered Lewis in Monaco? LMAO!

    Dont let the facts get in your way. The truth is Alonso wanted CLEAR 100% number 1 status, like he had with Flav and later had under Ferrari - you the know, the "Alonso is faster than you!" kind of NO 1 status or change Massa gear box so Alonso could move up the grild kind of status. Ron said no and wanted eqaul opportunities for both drivers but Alonso went mad. Offered money to McLaren mechanics while he and Pedro DLR poured over stolen Ferrari secrets. Alonso's final ace card to get Ron to meet his demands was to threaten Ron with exposure over Ferrari's stolen date unless he got his demands met again. Ron reported the incident to FIA and McLaren fined $100m (Which Merc took on most of the bill - and they never forgot about that with Alonso)

    Yeah nice to keep up the bs excuses though about Ron favouring Lewis because he refused to be blackmailed lol

  20. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    ut even in 2016 he needed perfect reliability and Hamiltons worst luck (4 DNFs I think) to barely beat him. He did beat him in 2014 in qualis fair and square but his race craft was not top form before 2016.
    Lewis had a 2 DNFs whole last year (at Spain and Malaysia) and Rosberg 1 DNF (Spain)

  21. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Nope, I am just arguing against your reason for Ricciardo being on the podium often this year. He just benefited a lot from other misfortunes.

    Baku Ricciardo won and he was way behind Max. Max retires with car issue. Bottas takes himself and Kimi out first lap. Lewis headrest issue. Vettel front wing + penalty.
    Canada, Max damages Vettel's front wing and sends him to the back, then Max retires with car issue a few laps later (again was in front of Ricciardo)
    Monaco, Verstappen in front of Daniel. Red bull botches his pit stop, undercut fails and Max is stuck behind Bottas.
    Singapore Vettel, Kimi, Max retires in first lap crash.
    Spain, Bottas hits Kimi which in turn hits Max on first lap. Max and Kimi retire, Bottas later retires with engine issue from P3.
    etc, etc...
    I agree, if max doesn't have issues. Ric would be no where.
    But the same ric thrashed vet in 2014.

    If max vs ham in same car. Max would have screwed ham.

    That's why I want Leclerc in 2nd Ferrari seat. He would push vet to the extreme limit.

  22. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Spot on mate . I'm trying to put this, but I couldn't.

    Wts your view on vet vs Alonso in same car. Ignore mercs.
    Just Ferrari vs Ferrari car. Who would come out as title winner.???
    Race-craft.....both are equal but would lean towards Alonso a bit since he is driving with mid-pack traffic most of the time with that POS of an engine.

    Emotions on the track with regards to grid spot penalties.....again, Alonso over Vettel because Alonso gets frustrated with that POS engine but seperates it on the track even though he gets passed up. Vettel was close to a race ban.

    Points.....tough one.....I would put them about equal give or take +/- 5-10pts provided no mech. DNF's.

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    Can someone please explain to me what all this nonsense between who is faster/better driver has to do with today's race?!?
    To me it is simple! Built fast and reliable car, and than Carlos Sainz will win WDC!!! By the way I think he is a good driver

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    Quote Originally Posted by GimiKimi View Post
    Ah that explains why Ron hampered Lewis in Monaco? LMAO!

    Dont let the facts get in your way. The truth is Alonso wanted CLEAR 100% number 1 status, like he had with Flav and later had under Ferrari - you the know, the "Alonso is faster than you!" kind of NO 1 status or change Massa gear box so Alonso could move up the grild kind of status. Ron said no and wanted eqaul opportunities for both drivers but Alonso went mad. Offered money to McLaren mechanics while he and Pedro DLR poured over stolen Ferrari secrets. Alonso's final ace card to get Ron to meet his demands was to threaten Ron with exposure over Ferrari's stolen date unless he got his demands met again. Ron reported the incident to FIA and McLaren fined $100m (Which Merc took on most of the bill - and they never forgot about that with Alonso)

    Yeah nice to keep up the bs excuses though about Ron favouring Lewis because he refused to be blackmailed lol
    Even ham needs same treatment in mercs, vet in RB. So no exceptions. Every team has that no.1 status. When they have good n quick car.

    If RB had quick car this season, they would have given max much preference. Which ric would have made his decision to move other team. As ric is getting much needed preference he's happy over there. See in 2019, drivers shake up will happen.

  25. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Can someone please explain to me what all this nonsense between who is faster/better driver has to do with today's race?!?
    To me it is simple! Built fast and reliable car, and than Carlos Sainz will win WDC!!! By the way I think he is a good driver
    agree. Apart from few silly mistakes

  26. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Race-craft.....both are equal but would lean towards Alonso a bit since he is driving with mid-pack traffic most of the time with that POS of an engine.

    Emotions on the track with regards to grid spot penalties.....again, Alonso over Vettel because Alonso gets frustrated with that POS engine but seperates it on the track even though he gets passed up. Vettel was close to a race ban.

    Points.....tough one.....I would put them about equal give or take +/- 5-10pts provided no mech. DNF's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Lewis had a 2 DNFs whole last year (at Spain and Malaysia) and Rosberg 1 DNF (Spain)
    Yea but what about China and Russia and Azerbajzan and Belgium? All penalties duo to engine changes or gearbox changes, Rosberg had non of that.

  28. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    My point still stands. Alonso was slower then Ham who was rookie coming into F1. It would be similar if Max came as rookie (not from STR, but 100% rookie) into Merc and got Hamilton shooked.

    Alonso for me is BEST RACER and teamates cannot beat him in bad car. But he likes slight understeer, he can drive around problems, but when car is perfectly inline with what driver wants he would not beat at least 3 drivers on grid (Ham,Max, Seb and Ric) in qualis. Therefore with these new cars he would struggle to take on them starting from 2nd place.

    Rosberg is fine fine driver but even in 2016 he needed perfect reliability and Hamiltons worst luck (4 DNFs I think) to barely beat him. He did beat him in 2014 in qualis fair and square but his race craft was not top form before 2016.

    In any case drivers go through motions and ups and downs. Vettel was flat out best driver till Monza
    He didnt make a single mistake bar Baku (which was road rage not driving error). He also had worse luck then any of front 3 (double change of engines before summer) yet all he got was 1st and 2nd places. Hamilton for all his good performance drove best car in Q and when he was out of shape (something vettel never was this year) Bottas covered him (Russia, Austria, Spain and Bahrain). Kimi didnt do the same for Vettel.

    For me Vettel Alonso pairing would he toxic but incredibly fast. In great car would definitely pick 7yr old younger Vettel though just because he would nick him in qualis.
    Yes, Max would have shaked Hamilton as a rookie coming into Merc.

    Rosberg, great driver...........no passion though to stick out another year. He got a WDC (his wish) which puts him on a list most could never get; rarified air.

    Vettel has a culmination of personal issues to get control of......Just like Lewis and Bottas this year which all stems from the Mercedes camp about "race-ettiquet" on the track. Rigid and Frigid and somewhat error free if you ask me.....but it gets crucial pts.

    Vettel and Alonso...yeah, team orders would have to be adhere to.

  29. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by GimiKimi View Post
    Ah that explains why Ron hampered Lewis in Monaco? LMAO!

    Dont let the facts get in your way. The truth is Alonso wanted CLEAR 100% number 1 status, like he had with Flav and later had under Ferrari - you the know, the "Alonso is faster than you!" kind of NO 1 status or change Massa gear box so Alonso could move up the grild kind of status. Ron said no and wanted eqaul opportunities for both drivers but Alonso went mad. Offered money to McLaren mechanics while he and Pedro DLR poured over stolen Ferrari secrets. Alonso's final ace card to get Ron to meet his demands was to threaten Ron with exposure over Ferrari's stolen date unless he got his demands met again. Ron reported the incident to FIA and McLaren fined $100m (Which Merc took on most of the bill - and they never forgot about that with Alonso)

    Yeah nice to keep up the bs excuses though about Ron favouring Lewis because he refused to be blackmailed lol
    I agree with what your sayin.....Ron sponsored Lewis from the get go and fronted up who knows how many millions for Lewis.

    Alonso's state of mind at the time was his own demise.....he should have gotten back in the game but did'nt. Sour grapes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Yea but what about China and Russia and Azerbajzan and Belgium? All penalties duo to engine changes or gearbox changes, Rosberg had non of that.
    Rosberg also had a few issues. 5 grid penalty in Austria. He got hit by Vettel in Malaysia in first corner and he had to come from the back. He was also hit with a few penalties in races like Silverstone which cost him P2 (which stemmed from gearbox issue).

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