2017 COTA (USGP) Race thread

**Christopher** · 22nd October 2017, 22:51

Originally Posted by DefaultSettings

"I really hope the fans didn't like this decision and hopefully next year they won't come" - Mad Max, US GP 2017

He's so petty

**killer** · 22nd October 2017, 23:18

Great race from Kimi. Congratulations to the team for a double podium.

It hurts more than it should because we looked so good coming out of the first half of the season, but it is what it is and it's still an awesome effort to get here from our struggles last year. A lot of Ifs and Buts--that's motor racing. We'll get 'em next year.

3 races left, 3 more chances to put up strong performances. Wins and double podiums would be very nice.

Forza Ferrari.

p.s. Formula 1 just released footage of RAI vs. VER. The ruling was correct. Max's was literally a textbook example corner-cutting.

**kraig1** · 22nd October 2017, 23:31

What was that bird shadow with about 8 to go at turn 1, a monster.

**FerrariF60** · 22nd October 2017, 23:33

Originally Posted by kraig1

What was that bird shadow with about 8 to go at turn 1, a monster.

i saw that too and thought i was "seeing" things..........must have been a humongous EAGLE or something

**FerrariF60** · 22nd October 2017, 23:37

Originally Posted by killer

Great race from Kimi. Congratulations to the team for a double podium.

It hurts more than it should because we looked so good coming out of the first half of the season, but it is what it is and it's still an awesome effort to get here from our struggles last year. A lot of Ifs and Buts--that's motor racing. We'll get 'em next year.

3 races left, 3 more chances to put up strong performances. Wins and double podiums would be very nice.

Forza Ferrari.

p.s. Formula 1 just released footage of RAI vs. VER. The ruling was correct. Max's was literally a textbook example corner-cutting.

sadly i think it's gonna be really hard for us to get some wins in the last 3 races..........those merc ENGINES are really strong.......and something tells me Ferrari had to turn/detune their engines for the remaining races as the FOURTH engine we introduces seems to be quite problematic....it has the performance (not sure how good it stacks up against the Merc) but when run at the very edge it tends to have issues, either run very hot hence why seb had the spark plug issue in Japan

but lets hope the engine people know what the issue is and be working flat out over the winter and come up with much stronger and faster, more HP then teh merc come 2018

Forza Ferrari

**doublesixes** · 22nd October 2017, 23:50

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

i saw that too and thought i was "seeing" things..........must have been a humongous EAGLE or something

I thought it was just me seeing things...or the beer. Was that a real bird, an RC aircraft or just a figment of my partially inebriated imagination?

**Stormy** · 23rd October 2017, 00:43

Merc are just way faster on the straights. Happy for double podium though, it was the best we could do and the team really worked for it. Nevertheless, Lewis deserves the title, he's flawless every race in this second part of the season, just look at Bottas. We should be stronger next year but the competition will be even fiercer if RB joins the party. Renault announced an engine with more mods for next year as well.

As for Max's penalty, it was well deserved. Horner and Max should read overtaking regulations outside of the white line before whining like that. Max wishing no one shows up at COTA next year is just idiotic. Even if it was said in the heat of the moment.

Originally Posted by kraig1

What was that bird shadow with about 8 to go at turn 1, a monster.

Haha saw it too, guess a huge eagle or something. It looked like a monstrous bird due to sun reflection.

**DefaultSettings** · 23rd October 2017, 01:36

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2daevyh.jpg

Where did he want to go?

**JPA** · 23rd October 2017, 04:30

One of the race judges, Mika Salo, added this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BakSk8QF08a/

I don`t understand why Niki, Jos, Max, Christian and many others complaining. Track limits - very clear rule. If judges let him pass moves like this then maybe we do not need rules and judges anymore.

**Rishu** · 23rd October 2017, 05:19

Originally Posted by JPA

One of the race judges, Mika Salo, added this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BakSk8QF08a/

I don`t understand why Niki, Jos, Max, Christian and many others complaining. Track limits - very clear rule. If judges let him pass moves like this then maybe we do not need rules and judges anymore.

Rules are not their problem, their argument is consistency in applying them. Many drivers were abusing track limits throughout the weekend with no reprimand

**JPA** · 23rd October 2017, 05:33

Originally Posted by Rishu

Rules are not their problem, their argument is consistency in applying them. Many drivers were abusing track limits throughout the weekend with no reprimand
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...04d20c96d5.jpg

I hear you. I am not F1 rule expert but... Your samples has one thing common - no advantage gained. Renault and Force India I am not sure but I think there were no advantage for Renault. One picture is where Mad Max forced Bottas out (one of those "I am coming - move or die attacks"). Seb is just cruising over the line not passing anyone.
Once again I am not sure but is there rule where crossing track limits and gaining advantage is no no.

**Rishu** · 23rd October 2017, 05:36

Originally Posted by JPA

I hear you. I am not F1 rule expert but... Your samples has one thing common - no advantage gained. Renault and Force India I am not sure but I think there were no advantage for Renault. One picture is where Mad Max forced Bottas out (one of those "I am coming - move or die attacks"). Seb is just cruising over the line not passing anyone.
Once again I am not sure but is there rule where crossing track limits and gaining advantage is no no.

As a Ferrari fan I'm biased & accepted Max penalty happily, however I think rules should be more precise, advantage or no advantage, one reprimand followed by penalty for all drivers if they do it. Felipe's last race for Ferrari in Brazil, he was penalized for cutting the pit entry white line, but that happened after he was warned twice

**JPA** · 23rd October 2017, 05:52

Originally Posted by Rishu

As a Ferrari fan I'm biased & accepted Max penalty happily, however I think rules should be more precise, advantage or no advantage, one reprimand followed by penalty for all drivers if they do it. Felipe's last race for Ferrari in Brazil, he was penalized for cutting the pit entry white line, but that happened after he was warned twice

Yes. This is normal procedure in SPA where drivers often get warnings cutting Eau Rouge. Rules should be cleared - you are absolutely right about that. I still see difference between gaining advantage and "gaining advantage". Other one is 0,1sec/lap and other one is position on track.

**JPA** · 23rd October 2017, 06:07

One thing what worries me a bit is that once again Kimi said that he need to save fuel. Finnsh tv got he`s comments and he was pretty happy with the car. There were lot of speed and good handling - except he needed to save some fuel. Is it that Ferrari is bit more thirstier than others or do we need to use some extra to overtake?

**JPA** · 23rd October 2017, 06:21

Originally Posted by JPA

Yes. This is normal procedure in SPA where drivers often get warnings cutting Eau Rouge. Rules should be cleared - you are absolutely right about that. I still see difference between gaining advantage and "gaining advantage". Other one is 0,1sec/lap and other one is position on track.

Still talking with myself :) There is a rule that separates these two "gaining advantage" situations. Rules says that permanent advantage (Max gaining position and better result) is place for a penalty. Crossing white lines without permanent advantage is up to Mr. CW if he reacts. Before Austin GP Charlie told that crossing white lines is ok - obviously he didn`t meant overtaking.

**Ferrarichamp** · 23rd October 2017, 06:35

what is Horner complaining about? we all know that if the roles had been reversed, he would have been happy to see Kimi penalized and Max promoted to P3.

**killer** · 23rd October 2017, 06:50

Originally Posted by Rishu

As a Ferrari fan I'm biased & accepted Max penalty happily, however I think rules should be more precise, advantage or no advantage, one reprimand followed by penalty for all drivers if they do it.

This was something specifically addressed in Japan, I believe. Brundle explained the stewards were going to take track limits violations on a case-by-case basis, with emphasis on whether an advantage was gained or not.

I agree with the call for consistency and one solution would be to place sensors on track sections where limits can be abused--but even then there would still be a need to have officials review the apparent violation, if only to deem a move good if for example a driver was forced wide or lost control.

Is there a set team of stewards? Having one group of people steward all the GPs might help with consistency. Teams would at least know what they're getting that weekend.

We've received our share of bad calls as well so any improvement in the officiating would be welcome. It's just that one can't please everyone, there will always be complaints.

**Rishu** · 23rd October 2017, 07:08

Originally Posted by killer

This was something specifically addressed in Japan, I believe. Brundle explained the stewards were going to take track limits violations on a case-by-case basis, with emphasis on whether an advantage was gained or not.

I agree with the call for consistency and one solution would be to place sensors on track sections where limits can be abused--but even then there would still be a need to have officials review the apparent violation, if only to deem a move good if for example a driver was forced wide or lost control.

Is there a set team of stewards? Having one group of people steward all the GPs might help with consistency. Teams would at least know what they're getting that weekend.

We've received our share of bad calls as well so any improvement in the officiating would be welcome. It's just that one can't please everyone, there will always be complaints.

Agreed mate, this makes sense

**wisepie** · 23rd October 2017, 07:46

Great drives by Seb and Kimi, even if Seb had won it would be too late to stop HAM's title charge. It showed that our engine isn't good enough and too many mistakes/reliability issues allowed Merc to capitalise. We did beat a Merc, however, but with Max and the increasing threat from RB, I seriously wonder what our chances will be for the remaining races and for 2018, but well done to the team for a come-back of sorts.

**Rob** · 23rd October 2017, 07:46

Maurizio Arrivabene: “Today’s race was closely fought from the start to the final lap. Sebastian made a great start to go into the lead and Kimi kept the race alive, with both men pulling off several passing moves. The team, both here at the track and back in Maranello, did a good job in coming back from the difficulties encountered in free practice on Friday. The most important thing is that we never gave up and getting both cars to the podium, even if it was not the ideal result, was achieved by fighting right to the end. We did that thanks to a car that, yet again proved to be competitive. Just as we did today, we will continue to fight to the very last corner of the final race.”

Sebastian Vettel: “My start was good today. I think also in Japan the start had been that good, but we just didn’t have power, so it’s good we had it done here. It was good to get the rhythm, but after a couple of laps I was really struggling with the tires that were getting too hot. I am a bit disappointed, because we couldn’t win and I had wanted to. We are on the right track, but all the things that happened to us came out not because of bad luck or because of somebody else; I think it was all on our side and we need to admit that. Then there were races in which we were stronger and we just didn’t race, which is even worse. There are positive aspects, but this was not the result we were looking for and thus, of course, it was not the best day.”

Kimi Raikkonen: “My car worked very well through the whole race. I was very pleased, it was so good and nice to drive. I felt we had a lot of speed and the tires lasted very well until the end. I’m sure that if we had started from the qualifying position we deserved, our pace would have been enough to get us a much better result. We kept gaining ground whenever I could push, which was a very good feeling. In the last part of the race I could have gone a lot faster, but I also had to manage fuel, so I slowed down my pace and this was a limiting factor. The final result could have been better, but we have two cars on the podium, so we cannot be too disappointed. For the next race we’ll try to be even stronger. Regarding the incident involving Verstappen, I can’t comment, because I haven’t seen what happened from where I was.”

**Ferrarichamp** · 23rd October 2017, 07:49

so Kimi had to save fuel but not Seb?

**nani_s23** · 23rd October 2017, 08:25

Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp

so Kimi had to save fuel but not Seb?

I think kimi was all time behind bottas n pushing to extreme. May be due to that.

Where as seb initial he was front n later part he was pushing like hell. Also if you see clearly, vet backing to help kimi last 2laps. So vet was also managing the fuel.

I think this current spec pretty much hungry to have more fuel.

**Rob** · 23rd October 2017, 08:28

The problem is F1 has let this track limits slip for many years. So now, drivers think its part of the game to keep exceeding the track. I understand that the stewards are way way to inconsistent when it comes to this matter.

In sportscars, WEC/ELMS and Blancpain, all drivers get 3 strikes. In qualifying and race. In qualifying, the rules are f ALL FOUR wheel are over the track limits that time is deleted, doesnt matter if the driver didnt even gain an advantage. In the race is the same rules. If the driver carries on, they will get a drive through or stop and hold. The racing isnt hurt by these rules.

FIA should just start next years season with attitude to track limits and lay down the law straight away. And most important, just be more consistent.

**Riccardog** · 23rd October 2017, 08:54

Maybe I'm wrong, and this is not the right place to comment on something that's gone...
but I really feel strongly about this and need to make the point...

Quote from Gazzetta dello Sport 23/10/2017...
"Al via lo scatto di Vettel era stato perfetto.
Il tedesco non ha pattinato per niente e la sua Ferrari
ha infilato la prima curva senza dare scampo a Hamilton,
che pure ha cercato di difendere la prima posizione chiudendo verso sinistra."
roughly translated:
"At the start, Vettel's start was perfect.
The German did not wheelspin, and his Ferrari slid the first corner without choice for Hamilton, who,
tried to defend his pole position slamming the door to the left."

now, comparing the angle of Hamilton's closure to the left, to Vettel's closure to the left in Singapore, can anyone who has so vehemently ACCUSED Vettel of being in the WRONG and causing the accident then, tell me that this USA start was ANY different?????
In Singapore, the only difference was... MAX was NOWHERE near enough to maintain the position he was trying to hold, and.... unfortunately KIMI had one of the best starts and found himself where he was...
not apportioning any blame here but to say that Vettel was wrong????? come on people!!!!

**nani_s23** · 23rd October 2017, 09:15

Originally Posted by Riccardog

Maybe I'm wrong, and this is not the right place to comment on something that's gone...
but I really feel strongly about this and need to make the point...

Quote from Gazzetta dello Sport 23/10/2017...
"Al via lo scatto di Vettel era stato perfetto.
Il tedesco non ha pattinato per niente e la sua Ferrari
ha infilato la prima curva senza dare scampo a Hamilton,
che pure ha cercato di difendere la prima posizione chiudendo verso sinistra."
roughly translated:
"At the start, Vettel's start was perfect.
The German did not wheelspin, and his Ferrari slid the first corner without choice for Hamilton, who,
tried to defend his pole position slamming the door to the left."

now, comparing the angle of Hamilton's closure to the left, to Vettel's closure to the left in Singapore, can anyone who has so vehemently ACCUSED Vettel of being in the WRONG and causing the accident then, tell me that this USA start was ANY different?????
In Singapore, the only difference was... MAX was NOWHERE near enough to maintain the position he was trying to hold, and.... unfortunately KIMI had one of the best starts and found himself where he was...
not apportioning any blame here but to say that Vettel was wrong????? come on people!!!!

Yeah agree with you regarding ham vs vet at start.
Ham made similar move, wt vet did at Singapore.

**schuy** · 23rd October 2017, 10:29

Originally Posted by nani_s23

Yeah agree with you regarding ham vs vet at start.
Ham made similar move, wt vet did at Singapore.

Every pole man does it, just a natural thing to do to defend into the 1st corner, Micheal use to do it quite aggressively sometimes.
Just like to say well done to the scuderia for the season, we had a great car from the start and improved it, just that our season was inconsistent with reliability, pit calls, safety cars, and bad luck.

As much as I don't like Ham, I'd have to say well done to him, his in the best form of his career almost impossible to stop, merc had a good car, once they sorted out their issues they could work on the performance and we see the result. Suppose the bad days for them only made them stronger and had more room to improve, kind of wish they didn't have those days now (ie monaco), don't think there was a race we struggled as bad as theirs so we only made small steps, gotta give credit where it's due, congrats to them. Coming from where we did last year great effort even though we wanted more, it just wasn't suppose to be, hoping to go one step better next year but there's no guarantees in this sport, this year sort of felt like 97,98 pushed the best team but just a bit too inconsistent throughout the year, it will click eventually, you can't be good forever it's just a cycle in any sport.

**nani_s23** · 23rd October 2017, 10:49

Originally Posted by schuy

Every pole man does it, just a natural thing to do to defend into the 1st corner, Micheal use to do it quite aggressively sometimes.
Just like to say well done to the scuderia for the season, we had a great car from the start and improved it, just that our season was inconsistent with reliability, pit calls, safety cars, and bad luck.

As much as I don't like Ham, I'd have to say well done to him, his in the best form of his career almost impossible to stop, merc had a good car, once they sorted out their issues they could work on the performance and we see the result. Suppose the bad days for them only made them stronger and had more room to improve, kind of wish they didn't have those days now (ie monaco), don't think there was a race we struggled as bad as theirs so we only made small steps, gotta give credit where it's due, congrats to them. Coming from where we did last year great effort even though we wanted more, it just wasn't suppose to be, hoping to go one step better next year but there's no guarantees in this sport, this year sort of felt like 97,98 pushed the best team but just a bit too inconsistent throughout the year, it will click eventually, you can't be good forever it's just a cycle in any sport.

Yeah. That cycle of mercs dominance should come to an end. That's wt needed for the sport 2way or 3way competition. But looking at their engines ....I'm not getting any words to describe anymore. Utter dominance.

Next year checkmate to mercs.

**Kyss4k** · 23rd October 2017, 10:58

Originally Posted by Rob

The problem is F1 has let this track limits slip for many years. So now, drivers think its part of the game to keep exceeding the track. I understand that the stewards are way way to inconsistent when it comes to this matter.

In sportscars, WEC/ELMS and Blancpain, all drivers get 3 strikes. In qualifying and race. In qualifying, the rules are f ALL FOUR wheel are over the track limits that time is deleted, doesnt matter if the driver didnt even gain an advantage. In the race is the same rules. If the driver carries on, they will get a drive through or stop and hold. The racing isnt hurt by these rules.

FIA should just start next years season with attitude to track limits and lay down the law straight away. And most important, just be more consistent.

Isn't this exploitable though? If you have 0 strikes, you can do what Max did and overtake off the track and your only punishment will be, that you'll get 1 strike out of 3. I would rather fill all these run offs with grass, sand, gravel, water with sharks and the problem is gone.

**bonzo** · 23rd October 2017, 11:03

Originally Posted by nani_s23

Yeah. That cycle of mercs dominance should come to an end. That's wt needed for the sport 2way or 3way competition. But looking at their engines ....I'm not getting any words to describe anymore. Utter dominance.

Next year checkmate to mercs.

Don't give up mate! 2 DNFs and a p5 for Ham and Seb is the champion!!