View Poll Results: Did Vettel cost himself the WDC and the team WCC ???

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Thread: Did Vettel cost himself the WDC and the team WCC ???

  1. #31
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    No. Our competitor simply did a better job.

    I have nothing to complain about our improvement this season.
    We've come a long way since our bad start to the current engine formula.

    Clearly we have more to do before we can beat the Merc in the championship, and I don't expect Ferrari to magically did it in 1 season either.
    I think we'll start off 2018 strong, and if we can improve our reliability and mid season development, we'll win the title.
    We are much closer now than we've ever been in the past few years.

    Vettel did the best any driver could out of what we had this year

  2. #32
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    If the car was just a little more powerful and a little more reliable, and Seb was a little less hotheaded, and Kimi a little faster, then both titles would have been won. I would argue that there's equal blame to go around.

    FORZA FERRARI!
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  3. #33
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    He had the biggest hand in not winning the WDC, but i don't think he carries the blame for the WCC loss.

  4. #34
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    Australia,Monaco, Hungary,Singapore, Malaysia, Mexico, Abu Dhabi are Ferrari tracks this year. (7*25= 175pts)

    Sochi, Barcelona, Austria, Suzuka kind of 50-50 chances for ferrari & mercs ( 4*25 = 100pts)

    Monza, Silverstone, bahrain, spa, Austin, Brazil, Canada, Chinese , Baku are completely power circuits (9*25 = 225 pts)

    3 RB wins, 2 Mercs other driver (VB) wins = 125pts. In these 125pts. Atleast 100pts were vet's where he should have won. (Austria, Sochi, mexico, Malaysia).

  5. #35
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    Seb needs to start the race (from pole) basically in a straight line. It's just a matter of geometry. By going decidedly over to one of the sides, in order to defend, he's indeed reducing his speed and at the same time covering a longer distance. It's OK to defend the line to an extent but he needs to think ahead and consider turn 2, where in Mexico he lost it.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesixes View Post
    Seb needs to start the race (from pole) basically in a straight line. It's just a matter of geometry. By going decidedly over to one of the sides, in order to defend, he's indeed reducing his speed and at the same time covering a longer distance. It's OK to defend the line to an extent but he needs to think ahead and consider turn 2, where in Mexico he lost it.
    You may be right. Seb needs to improve his starts i guess.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Australia,Monaco, Hungary,Singapore, Malaysia, Mexico, Abu Dhabi are Ferrari tracks this year. (7*25= 175pts)

    Sochi, Barcelona, Austria, Suzuka kind of 50-50 chances for ferrari & mercs ( 4*25 = 100pts)

    Monza, Silverstone, bahrain, spa, Austin, Brazil, Canada, Chinese , Baku are completely power circuits (9*25 = 225 pts)

    3 RB wins, 2 Mercs other driver (VB) wins = 125pts. In these 125pts. Atleast 100pts were vet's where he should have won. (Austria, Sochi, mexico, Malaysia).
    The RBR 3 wins and 2 Bottas wins are
    Sochi
    Baku
    Austria
    Malaysia
    Mexico

    Vettel beat Hamilton in all those races except Malaysia where Vettel started from the back of the grid (including races where Hamilton's teammate won).

    At Sochi Vettel got pole, a tenth faster than Bottas. Hamilton was 5 tenths slower than Bottas...

    Austria is also an engine track. The percentage of time at full throttle at Austria is about 65% :). Bottas got pole there with 2 tenths over his teammate, Vettel got P2 where he was half a second faster than his teammate Kimi.

    We only got pole at Mexico by Vettel nailing the lap. From sector times, Verstappen left about quarter of a second on the table in quali ( Hamilton left 3 tenths, he would have been tenth and a half of Vettel's pole time). Due to the quali mode, RBR is even relatively better during races compared to quali. Even without the first corner, the race would have been a toss up between Vettel and Verstappen.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesixes View Post
    Seb needs to start the race (from pole) basically in a straight line. It's just a matter of geometry. By going decidedly over to one of the sides, in order to defend, he's indeed reducing his speed and at the same time covering a longer distance. It's OK to defend the line to an extent but he needs to think ahead and consider turn 2, where in Mexico he lost it.
    Why do you think Lewis squeezed Vettel all the way to the inside at Suzuka where the racing line to T1 is on the outside?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesixes View Post
    Seb needs to start the race (from pole) basically in a straight line. It's just a matter of geometry. By going decidedly over to one of the sides, in order to defend, he's indeed reducing his speed and at the same time covering a longer distance. It's OK to defend the line to an extent but he needs to think ahead and consider turn 2, where in Mexico he lost it.
    Nothing wrong with his starts and cutting across to defend. It just doesn't work when the bonehead beside you i Max. Ham did it to Vettel and no issues.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Nothing wrong with his starts and cutting across to defend. It just doesn't work when the bonehead beside you i Max. Ham did it to Vettel and no issues.
    Exactly. Max is always on edge and does not care about DNF as he is not in champ battle. I would love for him to be in champ battle next year and Kimi doing same thing to him, I legit think he would be suicidal.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Why do you think Lewis squeezed Vettel all the way to the inside at Suzuka where the racing line to T1 is on the outside?
    Look, if the rivals have a faster car, what's the point of risking a highly likeable collision in turn 1, 2 or 3 by a hyper aggressive defense if he will be passed anyway on the long straights with DRS. His chances were obliterated in just a few seconds. Not a good plan.

    Next time he should be more concerned about the car's integrity instead of trying to decide the whole GP's running order in the first lap.

  12. #42
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    Its hard to say if Vettel himself was responsible, but he certainly performed a lot worse than Hamilton this season.

    If the Ferrari was capable in say the hands of Alonso is unclear. I'm leaning towards probably not.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Nothing wrong with his starts and cutting across to defend. It just doesn't work when the bonehead beside you i Max. Ham did it to Vettel and no issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Exactly. Max is always on edge and does not care about DNF as he is not in champ battle. I would love for him to be in champ battle next year and Kimi doing same thing to him, I legit think he would be suicidal.
    Oh come on, you can't blame Max for a being a racing beast. Many other drivers are not in a championship battle, but we don't see them racing like Max. Max is pretty often in a near collision situation racing on the limit but somehow that collision never happens. Max is a very precise racer with ultra racing instincts. If Max did what Seb did at the start in Mexico we would've all been bashing Max what a moron he is etc. Many people are a bit biased and not really objective when it comes to Max.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Its hard to say if Vettel himself was responsible, but he certainly performed a lot worse than Hamilton this season.

    If the Ferrari was capable in say the hands of Alonso is unclear. I'm leaning towards probably not.
    Well, Seb pulled the most out of the car in every race except Baku (traffic rage) and Singapore (poor judgement at the start.) Baku is 13 points lost and Singapore potential 25 points lost. Let's say Alonso was driving and didn't make these two mistakes. That's 38 pts more, at least the fight would've went further in Brazil and Abu Dhabi, but i doubt the championship would've been won because Merc are just flawless with great pace + zero reliability problems.
    Last edited by Stormy; 30th October 2017 at 22:14.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Oh come on, you can't blame Max for a being a racing beast. Many other drivers are not in a championship battle, but we don't see them racing like Max. Max is pretty often in a near collision situation racing on the limit but somehow that collision never happens. Max is a very precise racer with ultra racing instincts. If Max did what Seb did at the start in Mexico we would've all been bashing Max what a moron he is etc. Many people are a bit biased and not really objective when it comes to Max.
    +1 and most of them probably supported MS as well who was a little bit aggressive himself Max has had a few incidents but it's not going to change him.
    Forza Ferrari

  15. #45
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    2×DNF=lost title in such a tight season simple do the maths it would have gone to the last race instead its over and yes guess what with 2 races left gee go figure that.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    The RBR 3 wins and 2 Bottas wins are
    Sochi
    Baku
    Austria
    Malaysia
    Mexico

    Vettel beat Hamilton in all those races except Malaysia where Vettel started from the back of the grid (including races where Hamilton's teammate won).

    At Sochi Vettel got pole, a tenth faster than Bottas. Hamilton was 5 tenths slower than Bottas...

    Austria is also an engine track. The percentage of time at full throttle at Austria is about 65% :). Bottas got pole there with 2 tenths over his teammate, Vettel got P2 where he was half a second faster than his teammate Kimi.

    We only got pole at Mexico by Vettel nailing the lap. From sector times, Verstappen left about quarter of a second on the table in quali ( Hamilton left 3 tenths, he would have been tenth and a half of Vettel's pole time). Due to the quali mode, RBR is even relatively better during races compared to quali. Even without the first corner, the race would have been a toss up between Vettel and Verstappen.
    I'm not comparing vet pts to ham pts. Just indicating Sochi, Mexico, Baku these tracks where vet had upper hand to score 25pts in each race. But didn't convert them to race wins.

    Conversion ratio of vet on pole to win is very less. Where as ham conversion is more. Thats the difference.

    May be Ferrari car is vulnerable at start when there is long distance to turn 1 due to more drag.
    Examples: Sochi, Mexico

  17. #47
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    WCC no, is Kimi's fault but at the end I think both titles had Mercedes name written on them. Ferrari is lucky RB wasn't a little better because they will be 3rd on the WCC and not 2nd. I don't know if Vettel lost the title but for sure he lost the chance to fight for it until the last race. Not only he has made obvious mistakes plus Baku, but he was slower than Kimi in selected occasions and Kimi helped him a couple of times too. Ferrari is never going to win with Vettel if they can't build the faster car by a significant margin.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    No, and here is why.

    1) When Merc was fastest or dominant, neither Ferrari or RB where close. Therefore, Hamilton was fighting only his teammate who has been pretty disappointing this year.

    2) When Ferrari was fastest (Singapore, Monaco, Malaysia) RB was right there with us.

    3) This meant Max was right along side of Vettel, and when Vettel needed 25pts Max would be on the edge because his first half of season was plagued by dropped pts because of penalties and DNFs. That meant Seb was fighting with most aggressive-nothing to lose driver

    4) Merc has been fastest and most dominating more times then Ferrari has been. Monza, Baku, Silverstone and Japan where all bigger gaps then anything Ferrari was able to put on Merc.

    5) When Hamilton had to fight of Max, he let him go because "he was looking at the bigger picture", but he didn't need a win like Vettel and coincidentally Vettel started last with turbo failure so he could have cared less.

    6) In the end, when Hamilton was slow (more times then Seb), Bottas either helped him big time winning the race (Baku and Austria), or blocked him like in Spain. Kimi never did that.

    7) Our bad reliabilty spell came right when we had car on equal footing. Ham never had reliability issue.

    So basically, Ham had faster car (at least faster in 70% of Qs) and a teammate who took pts from Seb. He also never raced RB, because when Merc was faster no one was close to them. When Ferrari was faster, RB where right there in play with Max.

    For me this is clear case of people pilling on Seb too much. He didn't help himself in Baku, and Singapore should have been more careful, but to me up until Monza he was best driver of season. Hamilton had better Q car, better reliability and engine power, teammate who took pts from his rival when he was nowhere and no car to run against in T1 when they had best weekends.
    Perfectly accurate summary, sad though it is. It could have been our championship without these issues.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    I posted this in the race thread yesterday:
    Seb has only converted 1 pole into victory. He's had 4 poles so that's a 25% conversion rate. I know each race has its own circumstances but objectively speaking, that's a pretty poor stat.
    Interesting that but can't help thinking that Russia and Mexico are probably races where pole is a much lesser advantage. The long drags to turn 1 means the pole sitter is the only one without a decent tow :( We lost out in both of em.

  20. #50
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    Car was not good enough to win any championships this season. End of story.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Car was not good enough to win any championships this season. End of story.
    Agreed 100%
    Singapore 2017 - Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble
    Be Realistic
    Forza Ferrari 2018

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Car was not good enough to win any championships this season. End of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Agreed 100%
    Accoring to SM, he is says that Driver errors this year contributed to their downfall. Personally I believe it was both(drivers and reliability) as that option is not avaliable on a poll in the F1 section.


    http://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari...-title-defeat/

  23. #53
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    Looking at the 'old guard' (kimi, button, alonso and massa), felipe is the only one who failed to win a title, that's pretty tough on him.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Accoring to SM, he is says that Driver errors this year contributed to their downfall. Personally I believe it was both(drivers and reliability) as that option is not avaliable on a poll in the F1 section.


    http://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari...-title-defeat/
    Yap, it was a combination of both. If Seb didn't make any mistakes reliability would've been the factor anyway. However, the title fight would've gone to Brazil or potentially Abu Dhabi if it wasn't for either driver errors or reliability so it would've been more interesting nevertheless.

  25. #55
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    [QUOTE=jgonzalesm6;961177]Accoring to SM, he is says that Driver errors this year contributed to their downfall.

    I have to agree, our drivers should have checked out the spark plugs , tighten the nuts and bolts on their car before every race.

  26. #56
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    [QUOTE=Brembo;961185]
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Accoring to SM, he is says that Driver errors this year contributed to their downfall.

    I have to agree, our drivers should have checked out the spark plugs , tighten the nuts and bolts on their car before every race.

  27. #57
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    [QUOTE=Brembo;961185]
    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Accoring to SM, he is says that Driver errors this year contributed to their downfall.

    I have to agree, our drivers should have checked out the spark plugs , tighten the nuts and bolts on their car before every race.
    ....but vet is checking mercs car spark plugs after every race.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    No. Our competitor simply did a better job.

    I have nothing to complain about our improvement this season.
    We've come a long way since our bad start to the current engine formula.

    Clearly we have more to do before we can beat the Merc in the championship, and I don't expect Ferrari to magically did it in 1 season either.
    I think we'll start off 2018 strong, and if we can improve our reliability and mid season development, we'll win the title.
    We are much closer now than we've ever been in the past few years.

    Vettel did the best any driver could out of what we had this year

  29. #59
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    Pretty much sums up what I said earlier. Seb today at Interlagos.


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DONtK_gXUAA80Yz.jpg

  30. #60
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