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Thread: 2021 engine changes for F1

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    you Aussie's are lucky mate!!!

    https://wtf1.com/post/the-formula-th...utm_medium=rss (video.....have to turn the volume on)
    That does sound awesome.
    Its a modified Mustang motor.

    Hopefully they let in GM and Chrysler engines too.

    https://www.speedcafe.com/2017/06/05...0-v-super5000/
    .

  2. #32
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    NOVEMBER 2, 2017

    Ferrari not ruling out using veto for engine rules


    Ferrari is not ruling out using its controversial 'veto' to block Liberty Media's plans for the future of F1.

    Already, it is believed manufacturers Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are opposing the new F1 owner's plans to make substantial changes to the engine rules for 2021.

    Red Bull team boss Christian Horner has accused the two top teams in particular of simply "blocking" the obvious need for serious engine changes.

    "In some way or the other, we are always blocking Red Bull in the mind of Christian," said Ferrari team boss Maurizio Arrivabene.

    The Italian insists Ferrari and Mercedes actually have every right to express strong opinions about the engines, because "it's our business".

    "It's not a question of Mercedes or Ferrari blocking here or blocking there," he said.

    Arrivabene said Ferrari wants to "keep the same engine architecture" for 2021, reduce costs, improve performance and boost the show.

    "Normally you have the simple equation: what and how?" he added. "For sure it's not Ferrari or Mercedes driving the show, but they are the people who are manufacturing the engines."

    And so Arrivabene said Ferrari will not rule out wielding its unique and historic power of "veto" to stop changes it considers are wrong.

    "At a certain point we apply our right to do a veto for good reason at that time," he said.

    "But within serious people and people who have a clear idea, people who understand what they are talking about, I think you don't need any veto," the Italian added.

  3. #33
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    What are Ferrari, Merc and Renault worried the most about? They don't want MGU-H removed?

  4. #34
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    They talk about cost cutting but change the engines every few years. I imagine it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to design and develop a new engine. Where is the cost savings? Let alone a savings when you have to develop such unnecessarily complex power plants? It's just dumb.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    What are Ferrari, Merc and Renault worried the most about? They don't want MGU-H removed?
    I guess since they have invested heavily in it, they don't want to go to a simpler, cheaper or less costly PU.

    Quote Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01 View Post
    They talk about cost cutting but change the engines every few years. I imagine it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to design and develop a new engine. Where is the cost savings? Let alone a savings when you have to develop such unnecessarily complex power plants? It's just dumb.
    It's getting to be a joke honestly. Manufacturers have become a cancer(Mercedes) to the sport....and it just metastisize with the following of Ferrari and Renault.

    Mercedes should have joined WEC in the LMP1 class to further its tech. from the get go(2014).

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I guess since they have invested heavily in it, they don't want to go to a simpler, cheaper or less costly PU.



    It's getting to be a joke honestly. Manufacturers have become a cancer(Mercedes) to the sport....and it just metastisize with the following of Ferrari and Renault.

    Mercedes should have joined WEC in the LMP1 class to further its tech. from the get go(2014).
    I find it laughable to suggest that F1 tech is an investment for road development. Yeah, I know we got Tang from the NASA space program, but I don't see myself traveling to the moon any times soon. Same thing applies this. When is Renault going to have a 900hp half hybrid Clio? Oh yea, NEVER!

    Even the top hypercars from McLaren, Merc and Ferrari have very limited crossover tech. Maybe they even use the same turbo, but that is about it. F1 isn't NASCAR from 1960 when you can buy the same exact Plymouth Superbird for the street. It's its own animal which requires its own technology.

    Stop with the rubbish and go back to real engines and real racing.
    Last edited by Rob; 4th November 2017 at 20:59.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post

    How many times is that now????

  9. #39
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    F1 budget cap could be phased in from 2019

    Initial proposals for a budget cap in Formula 1 are likely to be submitted to teams at next Tuesday's Strategy Group meeting.

    Recent reports suggested the imposition of a $150M limit on spending, but Germany's Auto Motor und Sport believes the figure will actually be 150M euros and could go as low as 100M euros.

    The publication also reports that the budget cap would likely be applied incrementally, with 2019 determined to be a "trail year", with no penalties for overspending and the specific cap to not include driver, top management or marketing costs.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    F1 budget cap could be phased in from 2019

    Initial proposals for a budget cap in Formula 1 are likely to be submitted to teams at next Tuesday's Strategy Group meeting.

    Recent reports suggested the imposition of a $150M limit on spending, but Germany's Auto Motor und Sport believes the figure will actually be 150M euros and could go as low as 100M euros.

    The publication also reports that the budget cap would likely be applied incrementally, with 2019 determined to be a "trail year", with no penalties for overspending and the specific cap to not include driver, top management or marketing costs.
    Toto has few things to say about this


  11. #41
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    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...eatens-quit-f1

    Ferrari questions Liberty Media's plans, threatens to quit F1

    Ferrari has questioned Liberty Media's plans for the future of Formula One, warning it is prepared to quit the sport after 2020.

    Since its takeover of F1 was completed earlier this year, Liberty Media has been pushing to future-proof the sport and make it more appealing to its fanbase. Steps have already been taken, with the FIA and FOM working together to propose a new set of engine regulations for 2021, a vision that was presented in a meeting with F1 teams in Paris on Tuesday.

    Earlier this week, rivals Mercedes and Renault expressed doubts over the new 2021 engine plans, while fellow manufacturer Honda is yet to comment. In a conference call with analysts on Thursday, Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne revealed he is unimpressed with some of the proposals Liberty has outlined.

    "Liberty has got a couple of good intentions in all of this, one of which is to reduce the cost of execution of the team which I think is good," he said. "[But] there are a couple of things we don't necessarily agree with. One is the fact that somehow powertrain uniqueness is not going to be one of the drivers of distinctiveness of the participants' line-up. I would not countenance this going forward.

    "The fact that we now appear to be at odds in terms of the strategic development of this thing, and we see the sport in 2021 taking on a different air, is going to force some decisions on the part of Ferrari.

    "I understand that Liberty may have taken this into account in coming up with their views, but I think it needs to be absolutely clear that unless we find a set of circumstances the results of which are beneficial to the maintenance of the brand, and the marketplace, and to the strengthening of the unique position for Ferrari, Ferrari will not play."

    Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne is unimpressed with some of Liberty Media's future plans for F1. Clive Mason/Getty Images
    A Strategy Group meeting between F1's hierarchy and team bosses is set to take place next Tuesday, in which Liberty is expected to unveil more plans regarding the future of the sport. F1's new owners are understood to be keen to rebalance the distribution of income between teams in an attempt to promote greater competition, while the introduction of a budget cap to reduce spending has been mooted.

    "I don't want to prejudge any of this, we'll see where it takes us," Marchionne explained. "What I do know is that it is part of our DNA since the day we were born. It's not as though we can define ourselves differently. But if we change the sandbox to the point where it becomes an unrecognisable sandbox, I don't want to play anymore."

    Marchionne added that the financial implications of Ferrari leaving F1 would be "totally beneficial to the profit and loss", and claimed that "the board would be celebrating here until the cows come home".

    Ferrari has competed in F1 ever since the world championship began in 1950, and is the most successful in the sport's history, having amassed a record 227 wins, 16 constructors' championships and 15 drivers' titles over the 68 seasons it has contested. It is committed to F1 until the end of 2020 under the Concorde Agreement -- which was drawn up in 2013.

    The Maranello-based outfit has threatened to walk away from F1 on a number of occasions in the past, but this is the time that such a statement has been made under Marchionne's leadership.

    When asked how he would feel about being the CEO that took Ferrari out of F1, Marchionne said: "Like a million bucks, because I'd be working on an alternative strategy to try and replace it. A more rational one, too.

    "I'm attending this meeting on strategy because it's important and it matters a lot to this business. The financial implications of the wrong choice for the moment going forward are pretty significant to Ferrari."
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  12. #42
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    Sounds like Redbull got exactly what it wanted
    Singapore 2017 - Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble
    Be Realistic
    Forza Ferrari 2018

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Sounds like Redbull got exactly what it wanted
    It's not only RB, Honda too.

    Mercs & Renault too are concerned but they didn't raise their voice yet.

  14. #44
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    Ferrari will not enter a nascar type of format you can bet on that 150% the share holders and owners of this iconic brand of car will support this plus shares will sky rocket the company secrets will be no longer available to copy cats making there cars even more expensive no willy wonka chocolate factory for ferrari the others can please them selves merc no big deal that brand in europe is like a holden in australia and usa with others ferrari does not fall in the common dept just my thoughts.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Ferrari will not enter a nascar type of format you can bet on that 150% the share holders and owners of this iconic brand of car will support this plus shares will sky rocket the company secrets will be no longer available to copy cats making there cars even more expensive no willy wonka chocolate factory for ferrari the others can please them selves merc no big deal that brand in europe is like a holden in australia and usa with others ferrari does not fall in the common dept just my thoughts.
    Yap, Ferrari wants the sport to stay more exclusive. Still waiting on Merc and Renault to voice their concerns though. I think RB likes the idea but not sure about McLaren.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Ferrari will not enter a nascar type of format you can bet on that 150% the share holders and owners of this iconic brand of car will support this plus shares will sky rocket the company secrets will be no longer available to copy cats making there cars even more expensive no willy wonka chocolate factory for ferrari the others can please them selves merc no big deal that brand in europe is like a holden in australia and usa with others ferrari does not fall in the common dept just my thoughts.

    Nothing wrong with Holden man, built many kick ass muscle cars over the years.
    Now that they are gone they will be missed.
    .

  17. #47
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    I say that Ferrari's idle threats of leaving in the past IS NOT THE SAME as the current Ferrari now that they have shareholders and have gone public. This time it could be different.

    Maybe Ferrari should concentrate its resources in LeMans......GTPRO series and possibly in the LMP1 class.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I say that Ferrari's idle threats of leaving in the past IS NOT THE SAME as the current Ferrari now that they have shareholders and have gone public. This time it could be different.

    Maybe Ferrari should concentrate its resources in LeMans......GTPRO series and possibly in the LMP1 class.
    I doubt Liberty is going to let Ferrari go away. It's the golden goose! It's like Real Madrid leaving La Liga. Both sides will make a compromise at the end.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I guess since they have invested heavily in it, they don't want to go to a simpler, cheaper or less costly PU.



    It's getting to be a joke honestly. Manufacturers have become a cancer(Mercedes) to the sport....and it just metastisize with the following of Ferrari and Renault.

    Mercedes should have joined WEC in the LMP1 class to further its tech. from the get go(2014).
    WEC started 2012. Mercedes do not see WEC or endurance racing like they see (think) F1 is bigger global marketing. Also, 1999 hurt them at Le-Mans.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  20. #50
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    I think it is clear that something has to change on the financial and/or technical side to keep the sport interesting in general. The majority of teams, with a customer engine and a limited budget, don't stand a chance to play a role of importance. However since the 80's money has won over the sport and I'm sure that all the big players including Ferrari will come to an agreement in which they think that their profit and succes is insured.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    I say that Ferrari's idle threats of leaving in the past IS NOT THE SAME as the current Ferrari now that they have shareholders and have gone public. This time it could be different.

    Maybe Ferrari should concentrate its resources in LeMans......GTPRO series and possibly in the LMP1 class.
    Personally I would rather not.
    Ferrari's root is in F1. The whole reason why Ferrari was founded is to race in F1.

    Of course today Ferrari is a business company first, but still if we're going to invest in auto racing, it should be F1. It is the only thing left that links Ferrari back to it's origin.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Personally I would rather not.
    Ferrari's root is in F1. The whole reason why Ferrari was founded is to race in F1.

    Of course today Ferrari is a business company first, but still if we're going to invest in auto racing, it should be F1. It is the only thing left that links Ferrari back to it's origin.
    Amen to that. Ferrari needs to try and improve F1, not leave so someone can destroy it.

  23. #53
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    The real question is , what F1 are we talking about?
    I've been watching F1 since 1978 (8 years old) and I remember everything from V12 all the way to this.
    It really is not the same sport, and while people can argue everything about evolution and to a great extend I am going to agree, the real question is, what is the vision ?
    And really, what is the vision the new management is bringing ?

    I do understand where Ferrari 's coming from.
    Of course they will serve their interests. Ferrari is a NYSE company, lots of eyes looking at what they do, how they perform, or not, every decision they make need to make sense business wise, and at the end of the day, if staying in F1 is not in their interests , they -will- leave.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    and at the end of the day, if staying in F1 is not in their interests , they -will- leave.
    Of course, but i think that Renault, Merc and Ferrari are supporting each other to a certain extent when it comes to the future of F1. If these three manufacturers threaten to leave, Liberty and FIA will be forced to listen and compromise.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Of course, but i think that Renault, Merc and Ferrari are supporting each other to a certain extent when it comes to the future of F1. If these three manufacturers threaten to leave, Liberty and FIA will be forced to listen and compromise.
    If they wanted to, Red Bull could pay for the 3 teams to leave and still have a few billion left over. Liberty knows that , even though I don't believe Merc or Ferrari would ever part from F1.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    If they wanted to, Red Bull could pay for the 3 teams to leave and still have a few billion left over.
    Red Bull would have to keep paying like forever because F1 views will plummet instantly

    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    even though I don't believe Merc or Ferrari would ever part from F1.
    Merc can leave and comeback only as an engine supplier.

  27. #57
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    FYI folks.

    The Mercedes Formula 1 team will use the final two grands prix of 2017 to trial "new and interesting" concepts for next season. And they need to; 2018 is going to pressure on the car when compared to Ferrari and Redbull, even more so on the driver.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    FYI folks.

    The Mercedes Formula 1 team will use the final two grands prix of 2017 to trial "new and interesting" concepts for next season. And they need to; 2018 is going to pressure on the car when compared to Ferrari and Redbull, even more so on the driver.
    Wonder if our team should do the same or focus on winning the remaining 2 races instead?

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    F1 budget cap could be phased in from 2019

    Initial proposals for a budget cap in Formula 1 are likely to be submitted to teams at next Tuesday's Strategy Group meeting.

    Recent reports suggested the imposition of a $150M limit on spending, but Germany's Auto Motor und Sport believes the figure will actually be 150M euros and could go as low as 100M euros.

    The publication also reports that the budget cap would likely be applied incrementally, with 2019 determined to be a "trail year", with no penalties for overspending and the specific cap to not include driver, top management or marketing costs.
    I wonder how will they differentiate a manufacturer that has to invest in designing and building an engine and a chassis to a customer team that has to design and build only the chassis?

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Wonder if our team should do the same or focus on winning the remaining 2 races instead?
    We should be focusing on winning next 2 races. That gives good momentum into next season & positive vibes in the Marcello team. That's more imp than sitting back n taking 2nd or 3rd position on podium

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