View Poll Results: Would Alonso have smashed Lewis in the 2017 ferrari?

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Thread: Could Alonso have won the title in this years car?

  1. #31
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    Could Alonso have won the title in this years car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Someone changed it. The answer with less votes is YES.
    I don’t think so, whoever voted in the more votes category are the ones who think Alonso would’ve won. Yes, you can see who voted what
    “I prefer to beat them on Sunday” -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    I don’t think so, whoever voted in the more votes category are the ones who think Alonso would’ve won. Yes, you can see who voted what
    Yeah you are right. Strange though, considering Seb had 2 DNFs.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by f412 View Post
    ..lewis became champion out of pure dumb luck... it has a lot to do with luck and good fortune...that some make it and some dont
    Pure dumb luck; Shumy's championships, luck but just like in Lewis case , they count !!

  4. #34
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    Alonso is having a tough time beating Vandoorne in that washed up McLaren this year. I know that it is not very relevant, because of all the dnfs,dnss and grid penalties but it still seems worth pointing out. Maybe he has lost some speed, like we saw happen with all the "veterans", Kimi,Felipe,Jenson. I believe that a "in his prime" Fernando and Kimi would be a bit faster than Seb now. But they are not in their prime anymore, are they?
    Last edited by IulianFerrari; 25th November 2017 at 11:52.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Alonso is having a tough time beating Vandoorne in that washed up McLaren this year. I know that it is not very relevant, because of all the dnfs,dnss and grid penalties but it still seems worth pointing out
    Alonso probably lost 20-30 points this year due to reliability issue. And Alonso pretty much dominated Vandoorne in qualy battle.

    I don't see how Alonso is struggling to beat his teammate.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Alonso probably lost 20-30 points this year due to reliability issue. And Alonso pretty much dominated Vandoorne in qualy battle.

    I don't see how Alonso is struggling to beat his teammate.
    Vandoorne lost points also. Look at this weekend for example, he is either aheax or within a tenth of Fernando. In the WDC its 15-13 for Alonso, close also, and with 2 races left of the season Stoffel was ahead. Just saying maybe Fernando has lost some speed with aging, it happened to all of them

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Maybe he has lost some speed, like we saw happen with all the "veterans", Kimi,Felipe,Jenson. I believe that a "in his prime" Fernando and Kimi would be a bit faster than Seb now. But they are not in their prime anymore, are they?
    Raikkonen was in his prime when he was teammate with Felipe but I dont remember him dominating Felipe. They were evenly matched in 2007 but after Monza Ferrari decided make Raikkonen the facto No.1 driver.

    And we all know what happened in 2008 & 2009 (until Massa's accident).

    So your statement "prime Kimi would be faster than Seb" is nothing but fairytale. Unless you think Seb and Massa are equal.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Vandoorne lost points also. Look at this weekend for example, he is either aheax or within a tenth of Fernando. In the WDC its 15-13 for Alonso, close also, and with 2 races left of the season Stoffel was ahead. Just saying maybe Fernando has lost some speed with aging, it happened to all of them
    Not really. Sure Vandrorne has his fair share of reliability issues this year, but I don't remember any race where he was running P6 or P7 and forced to retire.

    And yes drives do slow down when they get older but its not yet evident with Alonso. He is still as fast and ruthless as he was before.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Vandoorne lost points also. Look at this weekend for example, he is either aheax or within a tenth of Fernando. In the WDC its 15-13 for Alonso, close also, and with 2 races left of the season Stoffel was ahead. Just saying maybe Fernando has lost some speed with aging, it happened to all of them
    VanDoorne is right where he needs to be.....either close to or equal to Alonso which says alot about him as opposed to the Williams team. That said, as far as Alonso loosing speed, he needs more of it in F1 and his challenges that he is venturing out to get it....Indycar...and now Daytona 24(January 2018) in an LMP1; aging is not it. Yes it has happened to all of them(age) but how many F1 drivers with multiple WDC's have done F1, IndyCar, and now LeMans/Daytona 24 given at his age.......hardly any.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Not really. Sure Vandrorne has his fair share of reliability issues this year, but I don't remember any race where he was running P6 or P7 and forced to retire.

    And yes drives do slow down when they get older but its not yet evident with Alonso. He is still as fast and ruthless as he was before.
    Agree

  11. #41
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    I think we would have lost still even with alonso but it would have been much closer. He might have brought the title fight to abu dhabi. We still would have lost because we had one mechanical dnf to hams zero dnfs

  12. #42
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    Is impossible to answer but I think Hamilton could have done more mistakes by having Fernando in his rear mirror all the time. For me the issue is not if Vettel won or lost the title, is the fact he was unable to fight until the last race.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Raikkonen was in his prime when he was teammate with Felipe but I dont remember him dominating Felipe. They were evenly matched in 2007 but after Monza Ferrari decided make Raikkonen the facto No.1 driver.

    And we all know what happened in 2008 & 2009 (until Massa's accident).

    So your statement "prime Kimi would be faster than Seb" is nothing but fairytale. Unless you think Seb and Massa are equal.
    Kimi's prime was at McLaren and winning the WDC with Ferrari. Still remember those fights with Michael and Fernando, while at McLaren. As for Ferrari, Felipe was faster before the accident I think, and all that Michael tought him made him a good opponent. Kimi lost interest and Felipe was more involved, thats Raikkonen fault. But lets not forget Seb's Ricciardo season. Its debatable, considering everybody thinks Kimi is now about 0.3 slower than Seb, I am sure peak Kimi would be more than 0.3 faster than nowadays Kimi

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom Hearts View Post
    Is impossible to answer but I think Hamilton could have done more mistakes by having Fernando in his rear mirror all the time. For me the issue is not if Vettel won or lost the title, is the fact he was unable to fight until the last race.
    Perfect analysis .
    With Fernando around ham would have succumbed to pressure. That would lead to errors.
    Same thing happened to vet this year, he shown his emotions on track which isn't good in my opinion.
    That's why Alonso , ham , ric etc doesn't care about vet as a serious threat.
    Vet at RB had a killer instinct, at Ferrari he became emotional may be he's trying too hard prove his presence n 4WDC titles.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Perfect analysis .
    With Fernando around ham would have succumbed to pressure. That would lead to errors.
    Same thing happened to vet this year, he shown his emotions on track which isn't good in my opinion.
    That's why Alonso , ham , ric etc doesn't care about vet as a serious threat.
    Vet at RB had a killer instinct, at Ferrari he became emotional may be he's trying too hard prove his presence n 4WDC titles.
    We did not have the car to win it this season, I believe.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    VanDoorne is right where he needs to be.....either close to or equal to Alonso which says alot about him as opposed to the Williams team. That said, as far as Alonso loosing speed, he needs more of it in F1 and his challenges that he is venturing out to get it....Indycar...and now Daytona 24(January 2018) in an LMP1; aging is not it. Yes it has happened to all of them(age) but how many F1 drivers with multiple WDC's have done F1, IndyCar, and now LeMans/Daytona 24 given at his age.......hardly any.
    Its not like Fernando has won anything. He is fed up with Honda and trying to steal the spotlight doing something else. Cant blame him really, he did well in that dumb merry go round americans have, but nothing extraordinary to brag about, considering his talent of course

  17. #47
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    Today's F1,= a top car + it being reliabile = 90% of the season's 1st place wins. Alonso in a top car , unbeatable even not on pole. Seb in Alonso's current ride would not see top 10 . While Seb was with RB in his top car, he didn't even know of such a thing as driving in traffic. Now 2017 even in pole pos. he's not a sure win. I believe if given a top car ; Verstappen will be the new commander and chief of F1.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Today's F1,= a top car + it being reliabile = 90% of the season's 1st place wins. Alonso in a top car , unbeatable even not on pole. Seb in Alonso's current ride would not see top 10 . While Seb was with RB in his top car, he didn't even know of such a thing as driving in traffic. Now 2017 even in pole pos. he's not a sure win. I believe if given a top car ; Verstappen will be the new commander and chief of F1.
    +1. With some more maturity, Max will be the top dog
    “I prefer to beat them on Sunday” -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

    "Giornata fantastica !!"- Andrea Stella, European GP 2012


  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Perfect analysis .
    With Fernando around ham would have succumbed to pressure. That would lead to errors.
    Same thing happened to vet this year, he shown his emotions on track which isn't good in my opinion.
    That's why Alonso , ham , ric etc doesn't care about vet as a serious threat.
    Vet at RB had a killer instinct, at Ferrari he became emotional may be he's trying too hard prove his presence n 4WDC titles.
    Alonso could not even handle a rookie Lewis in the same car, Lewis in a faster Merc, no chance...

  20. #50
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    If you are looking for a driver that would give you the best possible chance of winning the world title, it has to be Alonso... what he did in 2012 will never be equaled I think.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Alonso could not even handle a rookie Lewis in the same car, Lewis in a faster Merc, no chance...
    Nonsense. Hamilton had the full backing of the McLaren team at his disposal.

    FORZA FERRARI!
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Alonso could not even handle a rookie Lewis in the same car, Lewis in a faster Merc, no chance...
    I wonder have you watched the season closely & you would get the answer.
    This year too, it's like hams begging to the team to back him up before summer break. Statements like ' Kimi is Ferrari no.2 n team is backing vet for WDC title's says it all.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    We did not have the car to win it this season, I believe.
    Not exactly, Ferrari had the car to take on mercs this year.
    It all came down to mistakes & reliability at last.

    If you analyse it perfectly race by race. It will give better idea. Where vet would have won or ham had won.
    It would have gone down to the last race even with vet.
    Alonso has extra edge over vet if you compare both.

    Nothing to disrespect vet skills, but for me he needs that killer instinct back in Ferrari rather than emotional & being defensive.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Nonsense. Hamilton had the full backing of the McLaren team at his disposal.
    Not at the beginning of the season, no he didn’t. Alonso was being favoured.
    Stop with the fake history.

  25. #55
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    The best feature in Bottas car is the radio! No team orders. That feature goes for Max also. I can picture Max losing his shoe in Todt's butt! "Let him pass!"

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    what I really want to know, is could Senna have won in the 1990 Ferrari?
    Prost could've won that title in 1990 if Senna hadn't crashed into him like a madman in the first corner at Suzuka.
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  27. #57
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    Could Alonso have won the title this year? It doesn't really matter what could've been. The fact is that Alonso made his decision to leave Ferrari in 2014 and now Vettel is driving that car. Vettel drove superbly in the first part of the season and the only mistakes he made were in Azerbaijan and Singapore, other than that it was a very solid season from Seb. Could Alonso have done better than Seb? Who knows, it's pointless to speculate about something no one can prove.
    KEEP CALM AND LOVE FERRARI


  28. #58
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    Sebastian Vettel is a great driver – but he’s not on the same level as Hamilton and Alonso


    2017 has been another season where the German driver could and should have done better than he actually did. Yes, Ferrari had reliability issues in Malaysia and Japan; but Vettel has to take a big portion of the blame too. The question in a lot of fans minds is: Would Hamilton and Alonso have done a better job in the 2017 Ferrari? The answer has to be yes for me.

    Let’s take a look and compare Vettel to Hamilton and Alonso in certain areas.

    Speed and adaptability

    All three drivers are phenomenally quick without question. Their raw speed and talent is unquestionably amazing in the very best cars that they’ve all had. They’ve got 10 World Championships between them and all of them will go down as all-time greats in the sport. The difference I feel between Vettel compared to Alonso and Hamilton in this area is when they’ve been in cars where other cars on the grid have been quicker.

    In 2014 and 2016, Sebastian Vettel failed to win a single race in both of those seasons. Daniel Ricciardo won three races in 2014 and showed Vettel up in the same car as the German failed to deal with the new regulations when there was a massive reduction in downforce and a change to the V6 power units. During the same season, Fernando Alonso demolished team-mate and fellow world champion Kimi Raikkonen by over 100 points and almost winning in Hungary in a dog of a car that in reality belonged on the fringes of the top 10. Alonso has consistently outperformed his machinery throughout his career as the stats vs his team-mates show. He’s also had no real issues adapting to new regulations.

    At the start of the 2009 season, Hamilton also had a dog of car, but produced some stunning drives; particularly in Australia, Bahrain and Spain early in the season when it was miles off the pace of Brawn, Red Bull and other teams. Who could forget at Silverstone when he was battling Alonso near the back during the race! He went on to win two races in the season as the car improved, but still lacked the raw pace of the Red Bull and Brawn. Even this year he’s won races against Vettel where the Ferrari has had superior race pace. It is a fact that Button scored more points than Hamilton when they were team-mates for three years – but the reality is Lewis was the quicker driver overall and shocking reliability in 2012 (like 2016) cost him a lot of points.

    The 2016 Ferrari wasn’t the greatest car, but you can be almost certain Alonso and Hamilton would have won a couple of races. Alonso had a worse car in 2012 and almost won the championship. Of course Mercedes had quite an advantage – but Vettel and Ferrari blew it in Australia and Spain when they should have won.

    Even Raikkonen came closer than Vettel to winning a race in ’16. In the area of adaptability and making changes your driving style to suit the handling of bad cars: Hamilton and in particular, Alonso, have an advantage over their German rival.

    Temperament

    Again, an area where Seb has a big weakness compared to Lewis and Fernando. 2017 has been a big year in this department for both Lewis and Seb – but in very different ways. After Rosberg’s shock retirement and playing a lot of mind games with Hamilton in 2016, the Briton learned a lot and showed it on the track in ’17. The finest examples are Baku and Malaysia. Baku is obvious and doesn’t need explaining; he kept remarkably calm after road rage from Vettel. Malaysia was also a weekend where he used his brain where he mightn’t have in previous years. He didn’t have the pace to win in Sepang and instead of potentially having a crash with Max while battling for the lead, he sensibly let him go. It showed new maturity from him.

    For Vettel, it was a completely different story. The German showed the immaturity which reared it’s head a lot during the Red Bull days (e.g Turkey 2010, Malaysia 2013). His road rage (very much like his hero Michael Schumacher) in Baku with Hamilton should have led to a black flag, but he got away with a stop-go penalty. Then at Singapore, his unncessary aggressive defense cost him 25 points to Hamilton and started the Ferrari collapse on the Asian leg. Instead of the fight going to Brazil or Abu Dhabi, Vettel threw it away with those incidents as much as Ferrari did in Malaysia and Japan.

    Would Alonso have done the same thing in that position? No way. Alonso showed in his first title winning season in 2005 that he could play the percentages and the long game in races. He’s also one of the best wheel-to-wheel racers in F1 history and doesn’t get involved in silly crashes.

    https://motorlat.com/notas/especiale...ton-and-alonso
    #

    I would also use Alonso's current positions during a GP in 2017 in the track as I have said earlier in this thread.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post

    So your statement "prime Kimi would be faster than Seb" is nothing but fairytale. Unless you think Seb and Massa are equal.
    If Massa was in Sebs RB monster car at the time, or now in Seb's Ferrari, without team orders against him, Massa would be the better driver not just equal. Give it a try, and tell Seb to move over a couple of times!!

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Kimi's prime was at McLaren and winning the WDC with Ferrari. Still remember those fights with Michael and Fernando, while at McLaren. As for Ferrari, Felipe was faster before the accident I think, and all that Michael tought him made him a good opponent. Kimi lost interest and Felipe was more involved, thats Raikkonen fault. But lets not forget Seb's Ricciardo season. Its debatable, considering everybody thinks Kimi is now about 0.3 slower than Seb, I am sure peak Kimi would be more than 0.3 faster than nowadays Kimi
    Agreed. Kimi's peak was 2005. Had it not been for that crap reliability he would have been champ that year. How many times did the car let him down when we was leading the race that year? 3?

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