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Thread: Liberty evaluating F1 circuit design tweaks to improve racing.

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Liberty evaluating F1 circuit design tweaks to improve racing.

    Formula 1 chief Ross Brawn has revealed that Liberty Media is investigating whether changes to grand prix track layouts are needed over the next few years to help improve the racing.

    While research is ramping up about tweaks to car designs – to make overtaking easier by allowing cars to follow each other more closely – it has emerged that a parallel project has begun looking at how track designs can be bettered too.

    Brawn, who is managing director of motorsports at F1, says that if the sport can better understand what makes a good track for racing, then current venues can be tweaked.

    Speaking about potential long-term changes to the sport to improve overtaking, he said: "The aerodynamic programme is now starting to pick up pace, and the work on circuit development is happening.

    "We have already got engaged with some circuits about possible modifications to improve racing."

    Motorsport.com recently revealed that Melbourne considered changing a section of its circuit to add an overtaking spot, but in the end elected against the idea for now because it was not convinced the tweaks would definitely improve matters.

    Brawn said the Liberty investigation involves looking back through F1 history to understand what elements are needed to produce the kind of racing that fans actually like.

    "We have started looking in our archives," he said. "Were there periods of racing where there was more overtaking? Are there tracks where there is more overtaking? So you can do a statistical analysis.

    "The thing you have to be careful of is that overtaking isn't good racing. You have got to start to think about what is good racing – and it is two cars fighting each other.


    "It may mean the guy in front stays in front but you can have some great racing going on. It is a little bit more complex than the number of overtakes, counting the number of overtakes.

    "What we are seeing so far is the ability to take different lines through corners is quite important to help racing.

    "So if you have got a hairpin and it is a narrow track, it is not that great. If you have a hairpin and it is a wide track, where there can be some different lines going into it, then you can get something happening.

    "Austin, I think, would fall into the category of where there is a complex of corners. So, you take a line on one corner going in, and then you start to force the defending car to start taking different lines. And then eventually you come out in the right place. That is what we are looking at."

    Brawn also said that track surface was a factor too in helping the racing, with smooth, low degradation asphalt not conducive to good entertainment.

    "The surface is quite important to the racing because the type of surface can create degradation and a reasonable degree of tyre degradation is helpful to racing because you start to get performance differentials," he said.

    "It doesn't want to be the band aid to fix it. But if you look at circuits with very low degradation, like Sochi, the racing there is challenging and it is one stop. The tyres don't go off, so away you go. There are no performance differentials created.

    "If you look at some of the great races we have had this year, there have often been tyres involved in terms of degradation levels, so the guy defending – like [Kimi] Raikkonen, defending on tyres that were not as good as the tyres Max [Verstappen] had attacking him. The surface is quite a factor in terms of the racing you get."


    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/l...ng-980993/?s=1
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  2. #2
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    I don't know, circuit design is one issue yeah, but i think they need to sort out aerodynamics first, i think that's the main issue. So much dirty air, and that complex aero is not even relevant to any auto industry.
    Nevertheless, tweaking circuits is a good move. Put tons of gravel while you are at it, but that's not gonna happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I don't know, circuit design is one issue yeah, but i think they need to sort out aerodynamics first, i think that's the main issue. So much dirty air, and that complex aero is not even relevant to any auto industry.
    Put tons of gravel while you are at it, but that's not gonna happen.
    yep. It's not the circuits. There were 50% less overtakes this year compared to last year due to new aero regs along with wider chassis and wider tyres. Look at an F2 race and you will see cars going 3 wide at times.....bumping and rubbing and on occasion an occasional missing piece of wing instead of all these shards of carbon fibre along the track.

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    Any way... This was pure man thing racing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIJ3nN5Uvh0
    not what we have nowadays... Wussies and crybaby's!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    yep. It's not the circuits. There were 50% less overtakes this year compared to last year due to new aero regs along with wider chassis and wider tyres. Look at an F2 race and you will see cars going 3 wide at times.....bumping and rubbing and on occasion an occasional missing piece of wing instead of all these shards of carbon fibre along the track.
    Yeah, in fact, the engine is the smallest issue when it comes to making F1 a spectacle. F1 needs simpler aero but to still look fresh and cool. Is that so hard to do? To hell with cornering speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Any way... This was pure man thing racing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIJ3nN5Uvh0
    not what we have nowadays... Wussies and crybaby's!!!
    Awesome stuff. This one is great as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLozqekEnGQ&t=43s

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    This is like a guy who cant dance says the floor is not good.
    It is not the circuits. Best example, F2, they did fine, many overtakes, many exciting races on same circuits. Yes, the cars are a few cm smaller, but that is why F1 boys get paid more, much more.
    They first need to change the cars, make it more suitable to follow other cars. I would say, take away the diffuser, take away all those barge boards, and little winglets, and other little extra tid bits that they add one. Just have a front wing, with 2 or 3 elements, rear wing with 1 or 2 elements and clean up the car. It will reduce cornering speeds, and help cars follow each other because without the diffuser, the air will flow under the car into the other cars front wing. Diffuser just sucks up all the air and connect it with the rear wing.
    Less cost, less research on little wings and things, just a body aero and wings. This is crazy, dont change just because of change, have a purpose, find the real problem first, then fix it, not just change and see. Also, please, get rid of DRS, its a gimmic and does not give any tallent to overtake. Make the driver work for it.

    Thats just my 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    This is like a guy who cant dance says the floor is not good.
    It is not the circuits. Best example, F2, they did fine, many overtakes, many exciting races on same circuits. Yes, the cars are a few cm smaller, but that is why F1 boys get paid more, much more.
    They first need to change the cars, make it more suitable to follow other cars. I would say, take away the diffuser, take away all those barge boards, and little winglets, and other little extra tid bits that they add one. Just have a front wing, with 2 or 3 elements, rear wing with 1 or 2 elements and clean up the car. It will reduce cornering speeds, and help cars follow each other because without the diffuser, the air will flow under the car into the other cars front wing. Diffuser just sucks up all the air and connect it with the rear wing.
    Less cost, less research on little wings and things, just a body aero and wings. This is crazy, dont change just because of change, have a purpose, find the real problem first, then fix it, not just change and see. Also, please, get rid of DRS, its a gimmic and does not give any tallent to overtake. Make the driver work for it.

    Thats just my 2 cents.

    This sentence says everything!!!!

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    As Enzo believed, it's horsepower, the engine that makes the car a winner. Blast your way to pole, and don't let go. A good ex. Seb with RB. What traffic? Where?

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    According to ross brawn mercedes should in his opinion keep on steam rolling the opposition in 2018 wow if thats the case then let the doom and gloom begin f1 will be in serious should this be the case and liberties losses will only escalate as crowd numbers and tv viewing continue to drop off liberties plan of change has not gone far enough to stir up the grid i guess it will be we are merc catch us if you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    This is like a guy who cant dance says the floor is not good.
    It is not the circuits. Best example, F2, they did fine, many overtakes, many exciting races on same circuits. Yes, the cars are a few cm smaller, but that is why F1 boys get paid more, much more.
    They first need to change the cars, make it more suitable to follow other cars. I would say, take away the diffuser, take away all those barge boards, and little winglets, and other little extra tid bits that they add one. Just have a front wing, with 2 or 3 elements, rear wing with 1 or 2 elements and clean up the car. It will reduce cornering speeds, and help cars follow each other because without the diffuser, the air will flow under the car into the other cars front wing. Diffuser just sucks up all the air and connect it with the rear wing.
    Less cost, less research on little wings and things, just a body aero and wings. This is crazy, dont change just because of change, have a purpose, find the real problem first, then fix it, not just change and see. Also, please, get rid of DRS, its a gimmic and does not give any tallent to overtake. Make the driver work for it.

    Thats just my 2 cents.
    Your 2 cents is a sure-fire investment in the sport's future!! I agree totally.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    According to ross brawn mercedes should in his opinion keep on steam rolling the opposition in 2018 wow if thats the case then let the doom and gloom begin f1 will be in serious should this be the case and liberties losses will only escalate as crowd numbers and tv viewing continue to drop off liberties plan of change has not gone far enough to stir up the grid i guess it will be we are merc catch us if you can.
    Well, the team that does the best job wins. It's not Brawn's fault Merc won this year and are one of the favorites if not the biggest favorite for next year.

  12. #12
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    Looks like Liberty is "evaluating" as second race in the U.S.......guess where.........Vegas baby! I think a couple of us talked about this last year.....a night race with all the glitz, glamour and of course....Vegas infrastructure.

    Next step taken in plans for second US race

    http://www.planetf1.com/news/next-st...econd-us-race/


    here are attendance figures comparison 2016 vs 2017 of all GP's (includes all 3 days)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQi4nxjV4AAVxtt.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    This is like a guy who cant dance says the floor is not good.
    It is not the circuits. Best example, F2, they did fine, many overtakes, many exciting races on same circuits. Yes, the cars are a few cm smaller, but that is why F1 boys get paid more, much more.
    They first need to change the cars, make it more suitable to follow other cars. I would say, take away the diffuser, take away all those barge boards, and little winglets, and other little extra tid bits that they add one. Just have a front wing, with 2 or 3 elements, rear wing with 1 or 2 elements and clean up the car. It will reduce cornering speeds, and help cars follow each other because without the diffuser, the air will flow under the car into the other cars front wing. Diffuser just sucks up all the air and connect it with the rear wing.
    Less cost, less research on little wings and things, just a body aero and wings. This is crazy, dont change just because of change, have a purpose, find the real problem first, then fix it, not just change and see. Also, please, get rid of DRS, its a gimmic and does not give any tallent to overtake. Make the driver work for it.

    Thats just my 2 cents.
    Not just 2 cents but very valuable for the common sense that is not shared by many. The more you complicate things the more they tend to go wrong and F1 is a prime example: KISS and it will entertain.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Well, the team that does the best job wins. It's not Brawn's fault Merc won this year and are one of the favorites if not the biggest favorite for next year.
    The biggest favorite for next year is wherever Leclerc drives! Track wise, do something with the first turn @ Australia, Massa's favorite spot!

  15. #15
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    People always blame the circuit and the aero, yet it's never that simple. In 2009 the FIA majorly reduced aero and gave back slicks, that's a major mechanical to aero grip ratio swing, yet it didn't make a night and day difference in passing. Then they added gimmicks like ERS and DRS, and it helps but its still not a tremendous amount of passing.

    People always remember single great moments in time and think that given era was the best for overtaking, when in reality it's not all that much different. It's not like Senna Prost were swapping for the lead 10 times a race in 88 and 89.

    When drivers and teams are this elite there isn't a huge difference in skill, so not as many mistake induced passing opportunities. Less reliability issues, so that ingredient is gone. When you have 2 cars that are equal, there is no place to pass when there is only one fastest driving line. When the best car is 2 seconds faster, there is not going to be a bunch of passing for wins at all.

    Also the F1 format isn't good for passing. Saving tires and fuel does not induce passing.

    Bottom line, simply changing tracks or reducing aero will NOT make a major impact on passing, at least passing for positions that matter.

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    Prost ,Senna !! Great racing, no team orders. As you say no huge diff. in skill.

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    New mediocre F1 logo in trouble against 3M?! Great news and this gives them the ideal reason to withdraw the silly design for something better or just go back to the
    handsome one that's been in use for so many years without complaints!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liscia View Post
    New mediocre F1 logo in trouble against 3M?! Great news and this gives them the ideal reason to withdraw the silly design for something better or just go back to the
    handsome one that's been in use for so many years without complaints!
    compression tights....for women..........


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DThoH7MV4AAlj1J.jpg (3M Logo-->compression tights)
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 16th January 2018 at 11:48.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    compression tights....for women..........
    I have a friend graphic designer who's making some serious money from his profession and knows his thing. He says that the new logo is genius I don't know maybe he's seeing something i'm not. But he's not an F1 fan so maybe that has its influence on his point of view.

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