2018 F1 news

**maxc1** · 24th October 2018, 16:09

Article about Binotto: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/bi...rrari/3200823/

**aroutis** · 25th October 2018, 08:48

Originally Posted by Greig

Well Whiting has said it's legal to them so I guess the article can be dismissed.

Whiting will never admit in public that there is a matter of limited illegality because that would open a can of worms.
However, isn't it interesting that there is no published copy of the decision like every other time?

**aroutis** · 25th October 2018, 08:51

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

They covered up the holes for a number of reasons: 1) Fear of protest from Ferrari 2) Lewis's points for the WDC.

So yes, it was a "safeguard" to cover up the holes.

But they were legal (per Whitting's words), why would they do that or fear Ferrari's protest to begin with?
Surely, any protest by Ferrari would fail. .... hm...

**jgonzalesm6** · 25th October 2018, 09:21

Originally Posted by aroutis

Whiting will never admit in public that there is a matter of limited illegality because that would open a can of worms.
However, isn't it interesting that there is no published copy of the decision like every other time?

"Limited Illegality" is legal jargon. Whether the term was "made up" by Ferrari or extracted from the letter or letters by the FIA sent to Ferrari remains to be seen. But the term IF sent by the FIA in a letter is very very vague regarding this issue.

I don't see what the difference was when RedBulls illegal case regarding the same issue back in 2012 was shut down. The only difference I see regarding the 2 cases is mechanical. MB case is on the rims. RedBulls case was on the the housing of where the wheel hub attaches/slides in to.

Originally Posted by aroutis

But they were legal (per Whitting's words), why would they do that or fear Ferrari's protest to begin with?
Surely, any protest by Ferrari would fail. .... hm...

There was no indication that Ferrari would protest but after several clarification notices by Ferrari, and possibly other teams (Renault), Mercedes was'nt taking any chances so they took precautionary measures.

**aroutis** · 25th October 2018, 09:52

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

"Limited Illegality" is legal jargon. Whether the term was "made up" by Ferrari or extracted from the letter or letters by the FIA sent to Ferrari remains to be seen. But the term IF sent by the FIA in a letter is very very vague regarding this issue.

I don't see what the difference was when RedBulls illegal case regarding the same issue back in 2012 was shut down. The only difference I see regarding the 2 cases is mechanical. MB case is on the rims. RedBulls case was on the the housing of where the wheel hub attaches/slides in to.

There was no indication that Ferrari would protest but after several clarification notices by Ferrari, and possibly other teams (Renault), Mercedes was'nt taking any chances so they took precautionary measures.

Again, if that solution was legal, I see no reason for Mercedes to "not take any chances" and instead mess up their solution, especially in a race where they did not have any real data because of the conditions they ran the practice (rain etc) and with Pirelli adding PSI at the last moment.
If the solution was solid as FIA now comes and claims (but still, I really am curious as to why the decision is not public) , Mercedes would stick to their guns and just keep the rims as they were , that is what logic dictates.
Instead we all know what they did, and we all know what the outcome was.

Adding to that, logic dictates that in the wording of the decision there was something of the sort that would say something like "limited illegality that does not affect ..." and of course, being Mercedes, FIA would not want to make them sad, would they?
In that case, should Ferrari want to take it up further, yes, that could be a potential issue, especially taking into account the fact that they will most probably get the titles so they would not want that to taint this.
Plus, if they did not revert this, all teams next year would get the same device, which is illegal, so it'd be a circus.

**jgonzalesm6** · 25th October 2018, 10:09

Originally Posted by aroutis

Again, if that solution was legal, I see no reason for Mercedes to "not take any chances" and instead mess up their solution, especially in a race where they did not have any real data because of the conditions they ran the practice (rain etc) and with Pirelli adding PSI at the last moment.
If the solution was solid as FIA now comes and claims (but still, I really am curious as to why the decision is not public) , Mercedes would stick to their guns and just keep the rims as they were , that is what logic dictates.
Instead we all know what they did, and we all know what the outcome was.

Adding to that, logic dictates that in the wording of the decision there was something of the sort that would say something like "limited illegality that does not affect ..." and of course, being Mercedes, FIA would not want to make them sad, would they?
In that case, should Ferrari want to take it up further, yes, that could be a potential issue, especially taking into account the fact that they will most probably get the titles so they would not want that to taint this.
Plus, if they did not revert this, all teams next year would get the same device, which is illegal, so it'd be a circus.

This issue regarding the rims is not over. Charlie will hold a technical meeting with the teams (lawyers present maybe) regarding Mercedes rims. This will probably be held in "executive session" (meaning no televised or video...."behind closed doors.") This meeting is to take place before the Mexico GP. As to when and where this meeting will be and at what time is for the privileged few that are able to attend.

**WRX202** · 25th October 2018, 10:27

I was reading earlier on a particular site that apparently Mercedes sealed the rim holes with silicone after finding out that Ferrari was in the process of lodging a formal complaint after the race. So as to avoid further issues they just closed them off. If that is the case then it makes sense why Whiting is still insisting that they are legal if the action didn't originate from the FIA itself.

One thing for sure, Ferrari have moles everywhere if this is true.

**512 TR** · 25th October 2018, 10:38

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

This issue regarding the rims is not over. Charlie will hold a technical meeting with the teams (lawyers present maybe) regarding Mercedes rims. This will probably be held in "executive session" (meaning no televised or video...."behind closed doors.") This meeting is to take place before the Mexico GP. As to when and where this meeting will be and at what time is for the privileged few that are able to attend.

I'm interested in when this was noticed in the first place? Did someone notice this already during the Spa weekend and waited to report it and/or tell other teams about the design or was it noticed as late as the Suzuka weekend and reported/told instantly there and then? This could be an important factor as it could show the possibility that the FIA wanted it to be unknown to the other teams for as long as possible. It's pretty hard to spot those inlets to the holes only by looking from the outside. You'll either need foreknowledge about the design or you'll have to stand in a very special place during a pitstop to spot them when they go on or off the car.

This is a good photo you posted earlier. When the rubber is off the rims the holes are clearly big and visable. But that's a very rare photo. Who took it?

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/10547...g&name=600x314

**jgonzalesm6** · 25th October 2018, 11:09

Originally Posted by 512 TR

I'm interested in when this was noticed in the first place? Did someone notice this already during the Spa weekend and waited to report it and/or tell other teams about the design or was it noticed as late as the Suzuka weekend and reported/told instantly there and then? This could be an important factor as it could show the possibility that the FIA wanted it to be unknown to the other teams for as long as possible. It's pretty hard to spot those inlets to the holes only by looking from the outside. You'll either need foreknowledge about the design or you'll have to stand in a very special place during a pitstop to spot them when they go on or off the car.

This is a good photo you posted earlier. When the rubber is off the rims the holes are clearly big and visable. But that's a very rare photo. Who took it?

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/10547...g&name=600x314

This is just my observation. Ferrari spotters probably noticed the outside of the rim due to all the "ribs." That in turn led to Ferrari clarifying the rim in general. The "ribs" then have some correlation with these holes inside the wheel hub so you have a cause-n-effect situation.

With re: to the pic you, as you say, you can definitely spot the difference between the rears and fronts and the vents. As to who took it, that remains anonymous.

**sxviper698** · 25th October 2018, 12:08

So if they say they are a movable aero device then they should be stripped of any points they gained with them. So 75 points and then we are ahead! Ferrari need to stand up as Merc did against us.

**sxviper698** · 25th October 2018, 12:12

I'm thinking now they will have to prove how they work in front of the teams because the FIA have no clue and Mercs explanation must not be understandable. So let the teams decide as they probable know more.

**ferrari1.8t** · 25th October 2018, 12:22

Originally Posted by sxviper698

I'm thinking now they will have to prove how they work in front of the teams because the FIA have no clue and Mercs explanation must not be understandable. So let the teams decide as they probable know more.

Highly unlikely that Merc will get stripped of any points. No way FIA would ever let golden boy loose the WDC this year. My guess is Merc will say the rims are for cooling benefit and not aero benefit. Ferrari will fight and say that that are getting an aero benefit as well.

In the end, the FIA will deem them legal for this year and offer “clairification” for next year. Meaning teams can’t use this concept.

**ferrari1.8t** · 25th October 2018, 12:29

Originally Posted by sxviper698

I'm thinking now they will have to prove how they work in front of the teams because the FIA have no clue and Mercs explanation must not be understandable. So let the teams decide as they probable know more.

75 points is only Hamilton’s count, what about Bottas? The WCC also. They would loose much more than 75 points. Not going to happen anyway.

**aroutis** · 25th October 2018, 12:33

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

This issue regarding the rims is not over. Charlie will hold a technical meeting with the teams (lawyers present maybe) regarding Mercedes rims. This will probably be held in "executive session" (meaning no televised or video...."behind closed doors.") This meeting is to take place before the Mexico GP. As to when and where this meeting will be and at what time is for the privileged few that are able to attend.

I know, and that only comes to add to what I was saying earlier. If the rims are legal, there is no reason as to why this meeting is being held. Apparently what Charlie says "oh please, it's all legal !", is for the cameras. There is an outcry not just from Ferrari, but I am willing to bet you from at least RBR and probably other teams as well.
So they will have this meeting because simply they cannot avoid it.

**aroutis** · 25th October 2018, 12:40

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

Highly unlikely that Merc will get stripped of any points. No way FIA would ever let golden boy loose the WDC this year. My guess is Merc will say the rims are for cooling benefit and not aero benefit. Ferrari will fight and say that that are getting an aero benefit as well.

In the end, the FIA will deem them legal for this year and offer “clarification” for next year. Meaning teams can’t use this concept.

If there was such a case (legal for this year, not to be used from next year on), I would like for the teams to sue the hell out of FIA for once for preferential treatment and potential loss of income.

**jgonzalesm6** · 25th October 2018, 13:09

Originally Posted by aroutis

I know, and that only comes to add to what I was saying earlier. If the rims are legal, there is no reason as to why this meeting is being held. Apparently what Charlie says "oh please, it's all legal !", is for the cameras. There is an outcry not just from Ferrari, but I am willing to bet you from at least RBR and probably other teams as well.
So they will have this meeting because simply they cannot avoid it.

Originally Posted by aroutis

If there was such a case (legal for this year, not to be used from next year on), I would like for the teams to sue the hell out of FIA for once for preferential treatment and potential loss of income.

As Renault put it, it's gonna be some "interesting interpretations" regarding these MB rims and the 2012 case with RedBull (illegal).

**jgonzalesm6** · 25th October 2018, 14:05

Rich Energy to be a title sponsor for HAAS F1 2019. Possible livery change to black and gold....maybe.

Claire Wiiliams also said that Rich Energy would be a sponsor for 2019....

**512 TR** · 25th October 2018, 15:12

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

This is just my observation. Ferrari spotters probably noticed the outside of the rim due to all the "ribs." That in turn led to Ferrari clarifying the rim in general. The "ribs" then have some correlation with these holes inside the wheel hub so you have a cause-n-effect situation.

Probably because midfield spotters tend to concentrate on other midfield teams as that's their competition. For the midfield teams it really doesn't matter that much what Merc are doing as even a Merc without those rims beat everyone except for Ferrari and RBR in Austin. So most likely Ferrari spotted them first. Question still being when and where?

Regarding the design in general. Some of those graphics also show air being led through from the inside out (the other way). So that airflow obviously could affects the rear end of the car and maybe also the outside of the rearwing itself if that's the case.

With re: to the pic you, as you say, you can definitely spot the difference between the rears and fronts and the vents. As to who took it, that remains anonymous.

Yes, everything can be seen. Very interesting photo. Looks like it's taken behind the pits somewhere during unloading. In another of those photos you posted we can see a hypersoft tyre in daytime. That could indicate it was taken in Sochi.

**KimiBot** · 25th October 2018, 18:38

https://www.instagram.com/p/BovlVhJD...lipopmancomics

**jgonzalesm6** · 30th October 2018, 12:46

Spa being demo'ed and making way for some grandstands in the Eau Rouge area and Raidillon area.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvtIGmW4AAx12K.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvtIGoXQAAcbGr.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvtIHZWsAA8acL.jpg

**Brembo** · 30th October 2018, 18:01

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Spa being demo'ed and making way for some grandstands in the Eau Rouge area and Raidillon area.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvtIGmW4AAx12K.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvtIGoXQAAcbGr.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqvtIHZWsAA8acL.jpg

Are they old photos of Max after passing through during a practise?

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th November 2018, 18:51

Originally Posted by No1.FerrariFan!

Not Sure if this is anything to worried about but as they say behind every rumour there is some truth!
Are we set to lose another key piece of our jigsaw puzzle???

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi..._for_Mercedes/

Originally Posted by TonyRizza

its a big worry, if they get him then enjoy another few years of merc domination

Arrivabene 11-04-18

"Let's clarify once and for all. The rumors about Mattia are fake news, teasing to create instability in the team. An attempt to try to create problems where problems are not there. I don‘t want to comment on false rumors anymore."

**JPBD** · 4th November 2018, 20:52

If Mattia leaves, we’re in trouble. Let’s all hope like hell its not true.

**jgonzalesm6** · 5th November 2018, 12:32

Ron Smedley leaves Williams after 20yrs of service.

RedBull/Honda gets a fuel boost from ExxonMobil.

Porsche/Lamborghini will NOT enter F1 for 2020 into 2021. Porsche don't believe in a 2 class society in F1 plus the cost is too high to even win.

**Rishu** · 5th November 2018, 16:25

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Ron Smedley leaves Williams after 20yrs of service.

RedBull/Honda gets a fuel boost from ExxonMobil.

Porsche/Lamborghini will NOT enter F1 for 2020 into 2021. Porsche don't believe in a 2 class society in F1 plus the cost is too high to even win.

20 years? Rather 5 years at Williams. I hope he comes back to Ferrari, really a likeable person

**wisepie** · 5th November 2018, 16:33

I'm sure it's a typing error but he's definitely not 'Ron' Smedley!! I'm sure he felt frustrated at Williams this year and without Felipe baby he is perhaps feeling lonely?! The two of them at Ferrari made the team seem more lovable sometimes! I wish him luck wherever he ends up.