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Thread: 2018 F1 news

  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    It seems odd that Seb's first F1 win at Monza in the Toro Rosso-Ferrari was in the wet, so he can obviously handle those conditions, therefore it does point to the car rather than the driver,
    What happened 10 years ago is hardly relevant. Kimi showed that the car was right there in the wet qualifying at Hungary. Seb simply failed to deliver when it mattered.

    but everyone blames him for throwing away the German GP win this year. I'm still not convinced he would have won that race as he was on a different strategy to HAM and BOT who were chasing him down rapidly, until Seb tried too hard and binned it under very changeable conditions. The other errors later on in the season were out of desperation when the team lost the plot between Monza and Suzuka.
    Well Hamilton was on a different strategy since he was running the option tyre in his 2nd stint which played to his advantage when it started to drizzle. Hamilton was catching Vettel quickly, but he still had to pass Kimi and Bottas first with not a huge amount of laps remaining.

  2. #1802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    What happened 10 years ago is hardly relevant. Kimi showed that the car was right there in the wet qualifying at Hungary. Seb simply failed to deliver when it mattered.



    Well Hamilton was on a different strategy since he was running the option tyre in his 2nd stint which played to his advantage when it started to drizzle. Hamilton was catching Vettel quickly, but he still had to pass Kimi and Bottas first with not a huge amount of laps remaining.
    U mean passing Kimi ONLY, as Bottas being a moving chicane would have moved over for him anyway so noT mc( of a hustle there at all.....LOL
    So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  3. #1803
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Well if a 70-year old ex-tobacco guy who's main job is to manage the team and doing a subpar job at it, and a driver who's solely responsible for losing at least 50 points on his own accord blames the car, I'd be unhappy too.
    Agree, both have been below par. Binotto must be kept happy, it's essential & paramount

  4. #1804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Perhaps you should quantify these mistakes before claiming such "facts".



    Are you saying Mercedes do not make mistakes, year after year?



    I was extremely skeptical in late 2014 when i knew that Kimi/Vettel was to be our driver lineup for 2015. Both Alonso and Ricciardo had given Kimi and Vettel a hiding. There's always been the question in my head of "What if Alonso/Ricciardo were driving the cars?" and this question has become much prevalent in the last couple of years where we have had a car capable of winning the championship but the drivers have regularly dropped the ball.

    It is up to the leadership to select the drivers, and at least they have attempted to improve one half of the driver lineup. It was quite clear that Kimi should have been replaced a while ago.
    In short :
    1. No , I don't really need to quantify facts. Facts are facts, if you feel the need to go thru such an exercise, feel free to do so, there are many sources throughout the internet.
    2. Actually no I don't. Feel free to go through the posts of this thread, I 've reiterated many times that Mercedes also made mistakes. The problem is that somehow Mercedes learned from their mistakes, whereas we keep making same mistakes over and over.
    3. Thank God for sacking Alonso. That man is a cancer for every team he ever joined.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  5. #1805
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    It seems odd that Seb's first F1 win at Monza in the Toro Rosso-Ferrari was in the wet, so he can obviously handle those conditions, therefore it does point to the car rather than the driverl

    The Toro Rosso in that race was pretty much the best car.

  6. #1806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom Hearts View Post
    The Toro Rosso in that race was pretty much the best car.
    No it wasn’t, torro rosso any Pettel got lucky with pole due to being out at the right time in changeable conditions during qualifying

    And on race day it was pouring rain “cats and dogs” style and the race started behind the safety car.....so again an easy WIN for Pettel
    Last edited by FerrariF60; 19th December 2018 at 15:38.
    So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  7. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    In short :
    1. No , I don't really need to quantify facts. Facts are facts, if you feel the need to go thru such an exercise, feel free to do so, there are many sources throughout the internet.
    2. Actually no I don't. Feel free to go through the posts of this thread, I 've reiterated many times that Mercedes also made mistakes. The problem is that somehow Mercedes learned from their mistakes, whereas we keep making same mistakes over and over.
    3. Thank God for sacking Alonso. That man is a cancer for every team he ever joined.
    Forza Ferrari

  8. #1808
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    Ferrari losing out 2018 was in fact Alonso's fault. If he stood with Ferrari we would have won WDC and WCC. Ferrari had Seb!!

  9. #1809
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    In short :
    1. No , I don't really need to quantify facts. Facts are facts, if you feel the need to go thru such an exercise, feel free to do so, there are many sources throughout the internet.
    2. Actually no I don't. Feel free to go through the posts of this thread, I 've reiterated many times that Mercedes also made mistakes. The problem is that somehow Mercedes learned from their mistakes, whereas we keep making same mistakes over and over.
    3. Thank God for sacking Alonso. That man is a cancer for every team he ever joined.
    Clearly trolling.

    You talk about facts and then go on to mention "sacking Alonso".

  10. #1810
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    Launch date for Renault 2019.....that's 02/12/19 (stateside)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du3y165X4AAe3CV.jpg

    F1's pre-season key dates so far
    February 12 Renault launch
    February 13 Racing Point launch
    February 15 Ferrari launch
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #1811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Clearly trolling.

    You talk about facts and then go on to mention "sacking Alonso".
    They got Seb before re-signing Alonso, pretty much letting him hanging out to dry.

    Fine, it was not firing. Just not re-signing :)
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  12. #1812
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    They got Seb before re-signing Alonso, pretty much letting him hanging out to dry.

    Fine, it was not firing. Just not re-signing :)
    Alonso had a contract until the end of 2016. He decided to leave after Spa and LdM was content to let him break his contract due to a prior gentleman's agreement made in 2013. Seb was signed after that.

    As for your other 2 points - I will give you some advice. If you want to engage in debate, and in doing so, claim something as a fact, then it is up to you to prove that your claim is a fact when challenged by someone else. If you claim that Ferrari strategy team made more errors than the Mercedes strategy team, then you need to prove it by listing the errors for each team. At the very least, provide a link to an external source which does this comparison.

  13. #1813
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    They got Seb before re-signing Alonso, pretty much letting him hanging out to dry.

    Fine, it was not firing. Just not re-signing :)
    So much for stating facts from a person crying about it for last two weeks

  14. #1814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Alonso had a contract until the end of 2016. He decided to leave after Spa and LdM was content to let him break his contract due to a prior gentleman's agreement made in 2013. Seb was signed after that.

    As for your other 2 points - I will give you some advice. If you want to engage in debate, and in doing so, claim something as a fact, then it is up to you to prove that your claim is a fact when challenged by someone else. If you claim that Ferrari strategy team made more errors than the Mercedes strategy team, then you need to prove it by listing the errors for each team. At the very least, provide a link to an external source which does this comparison.
    Actually, according to Mark Hughes, Mattiaci had been trying to sign Alonso til 2019. Even James Allison himself had a meeting with Alonso to convince him to stay.

    Mattiacci questioned his dedication to the team when Alonso refused to sign the extension without a performance/exit clause and Alonso being Alonso took it at heart. So Alonso left, Mattiacci got sacked then Marchionne took over and kicked Luca out of the team.

    Alonso had 5 seasons and two seasons where he brought the car pretty close to the championship title.

    And Vettel in his 4 years, even with top car, never got close to the title. Great signing indeed.

  15. #1815
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Actually, according to Mark Hughes, Mattiaci had been trying to sign Alonso til 2019. Even James Allison himself had a meeting with Alonso to convince him to stay.

    Mattiacci questioned his dedication to the team when Alonso refused to sign the extension without a performance/exit clause and Alonso being Alonso took it at heart. So Alonso left, Mattiacci got sacked then Marchionne took over and kicked Luca out of the team.

    Alonso had 5 seasons and two seasons where he brought the car pretty close to the championship title.

    And Vettel in his 4 years, even with top car, never got close to the title. Great signing indeed.
    I know you're not a Seb fan, tifosi, but that's a bit harsh. He did get close to two titles but couldn't pull it off for various reasons, some of them his own fault, but to say he didn't is rather unfair given the strength of the Merc team-playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Alonso had a contract until the end of 2016. He decided to leave after Spa and LdM was content to let him break his contract due to a prior gentleman's agreement made in 2013. Seb was signed after that.

    As for your other 2 points - I will give you some advice. If you want to engage in debate, and in doing so, claim something as a fact, then it is up to you to prove that your claim is a fact when challenged by someone else. If you claim that Ferrari strategy team made more errors than the Mercedes strategy team, then you need to prove it by listing the errors for each team. At the very least, provide a link to an external source which does this comparison.
    I have to say, you are 1000000% right sir! We would be able to talk for hours! I love talking with people like you, because you know how to make a point and prove it, and if you prove it right. Thank you for posting it.

  17. #1817
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    I know you're not a Seb fan, tifosi, but that's a bit harsh. He did get close to two titles but couldn't pull it off for various reasons, some of them his own fault, but to say he didn't is rather unfair given the strength of the Merc team-playing.
    Hamilton mathematically sealed both the 2017 and 2018 title with 2 races to spare. I don't think you can say Seb was close on either occasion. Alonso on the other hand took two titles down to the final race with inferior machinery.

    Not sure why you bring up the Merc team playing. Ferrari has also played the team game - look at China, Hungary and Germany this year.

  18. #1818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Hamilton mathematically sealed both the 2017 and 2018 title with 2 races to spare. I don't think you can say Seb was close on either occasion. Alonso on the other hand took two titles down to the final race with inferior machinery.

    Not sure why you bring up the Merc team playing. Ferrari has also played the team game - look at China, Hungary and Germany this year.
    I accept your point as far as the numbers are concerned but until Seb and Ferrari dropped the ball between Monza and Suzuka, they were still close, it melted away astonishingly quickly at that time and was made even more difficult by Merc's team-playing. Ferrari of course used it at times but their work as a team didn't continue throughout the season in the same way, I don't think I need to explain in what way except that BOT was always there to play second fiddle and keep HAM safe. I also agree that whilst at Ferrari, Alonso kept his chances open for longer in an inferior car, we all know his strengths and he deserved to take at least two more championships.

  19. #1819
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Well if a 70-year old ex-tobacco guy who's main job is to manage the team and doing a subpar job at it, and a driver who's solely responsible for losing at least 50 points on his own accord blames the car, I'd be unhappy too.
    I happen to believe "this 70-year old ex tobacco guy who's main job is to manage the team" has done a tremendous job. I can hold my head up high whenever I talk to my F1 friends in comparison to Mercedes's Wolf and whatever their alliances are with, they respect Maurizio and the job he has done. No smart mouth, no dirty talk, no deceipt and doing a better job, thus catching the Mercedes. Head down and work. Of course the merit goes all around, Mattia, Kimi, Seb and all of the guys at the factory.
    The rest is just talk... A no patience man's talk, who believes that it is a God's given right for Ferrari to close the gap. The talk of a person that doesn't understand that if a team improves, it doesn't need to be changed. Every cog at this level is highly important, the chemistry within the team makes the difference between gaining valuable seconds or losing them. Bottom line is Maurizio has lead a team that caught Mercedes who had a huge advantage, when it could have gone the other way around, like on other teams losing or maintaining, rather than gaining. Grandeur has made you to believe that you have something to lose. Ferrari have nothing to lose for 10 years now. 2 years ago Mercs won 19 of 21 races and the other two where a double DNF from 1st an 2nd and a leading DNF and leading spin, they should of had 21/21. We are now closer than ever, don't let the enthusiasm be replaced by the frustations of grand expectantions.
    Last edited by IulianFerrari; 22nd December 2018 at 23:09.

  20. #1820
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    I happen to believe "this 70-year old ex tobacco guy who's main job is to manage the team" has done a tremendous job. I can hold my head up high whenever I talk to my F1 friends in comparison to Mercedes's Wolf and whatever their alliances are with, they respect Maurizio and the job he has done. No smart mouth, no dirty talk, no deceipt and doing a better job, thus catching the Mercedes. Head down and work. Of course the merit goes all around, Mattia, Kimi, Seb and all of the guys at the factory.
    The rest is just talk... A no patience man's talk, who believes that it is a God's given right for Ferrari to close the gap. The talk of a person that doesn't understand that if a team improves, it doesn't need to be changed. Every cog at this level is highly important, the chemistry within the team makes the difference between gaining valuable seconds or losing them. Bottom line is Maurizio has lead a team that caught Mercedes who had a huge advantage, when it could have gone the other way around, like on other teams losing or maintaining, rather than gaining. Grandeur has made you to believe that you have something to lose. Ferrari have nothing to lose for 10 years now. 2 years ago Mercs won 19 of 21 races and the other two where a double DNF from 1st an 2nd and a leading DNF and leading spin, they should of had 21/21. We are now closer than ever, don't let the enthusiasm be replaced by the frustations of grand expectantions.
    Arrivabane didn't lead ****, buddy. It was Marchionne who did all the leading from the front stuff. He made all the decisions, changed their operating structure and squashed dumb politics within the team. It was Marchionne who made Binotto chief engine guy til 2015 to 2017, and starting 2017 it was Marchionne who gave him technical director's role. And under Binotto, our aero department produced two great chassis and engine department produced the current best power unit in F1. Ferrari's resurgence had nothing to do with Arrivabane or his so-called leadership.

    And speaking of Arrivabane, your friend's can respect him as much they like but that's hardly the point. He is soft like pudding, he cant tell his dear friend Raikkonen to move out of the way for 10 laps, under him the team operation and the strategy department went haywire. He is a bad team principal and not on the same level as Toto Wolff or Horner. If you blame the team openly to the media, you are doing something wrong. Clearly.

  21. #1821
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Arrivabane didn't lead ****, buddy. It was Marchionne who did all the leading from the front stuff. He made all the decisions, changed their operating structure and squashed dumb politics within the team. It was Marchionne who made Binotto chief engine guy til 2015 to 2017, and starting 2017 it was Marchionne who gave him technical director's role. And under Binotto, our aero department produced two great chassis and engine department produced the current best power unit in F1. Ferrari's resurgence had nothing to do with Arrivabane or his so-called leadership.

    And speaking of Arrivabane, your friend's can respect him as much they like but that's hardly the point. He is soft like pudding, he cant tell his dear friend Raikkonen to move out of the way for 10 laps, under him the team operation and the strategy department went haywire. He is a bad team principal and not on the same level as Toto Wolff or Horner. If you blame the team openly to the media, you are doing something wrong. Clearly.
    Of course Marchionne had a great influence and made great decisions. Appointing Arrivabene and Binotto have been 2 of them. As for the Germany incident, there is no one else to blame for Seb's mistake than Seb. The decision to not let Vettel through earlier, although not great, was of little to no impact. He missed that breaking point, under no sort of pressure whatsoever. Just like in Italy when it is nobody else's fault that Vettel couldn't get through 3 corners without crashing.

  22. #1822
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    Many fans here clearly had Seb in charge of the pit wall decisions , mechanics, etc. besides having to drive. Who was it that put him in charge? He was supposed to just be the #1 driver bringing in the WCC, WDC . Ferrari in spite of all the blame games, had the car close to if not as good as Merc , how did R Bull come in 2nd. during the 2nd. half with that bomb? Driving had a lot to do with it.

  23. #1823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Many fans here clearly had Seb in charge of the pit wall decisions , mechanics, etc. besides having to drive. Who was it that put him in charge? He was supposed to just be the #1 driver bringing in the WCC, WDC .
    Ferrari in spite of all the blame games, had the car? Driving had a lot to do with it.
    I agree with the first part of your statement Brembo
    BUT as for the 2nd part YES Seb did make mistakes but on some occasions when he was on fire pit wall decisions or indeed lack of didn't help


    Forza Jules

  24. #1824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Alonso had a contract until the end of 2016. He decided to leave after Spa and LdM was content to let him break his contract due to a prior gentleman's agreement made in 2013. Seb was signed after that.

    As for your other 2 points - I will give you some advice. If you want to engage in debate, and in doing so, claim something as a fact, then it is up to you to prove that your claim is a fact when challenged by someone else. If you claim that Ferrari strategy team made more errors than the Mercedes strategy team, then you need to prove it by listing the errors for each team. At the very least, provide a link to an external source which does this comparison.
    If you are claiming that what I say is false, by all means prove me false.

    Rishu, I am not crying something. I am stating. There 's a difference.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  25. #1825
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    About Alonso and what happened ... Mattiacci and all :

    https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...nso-real-story

    A couple of weeks prior to the Alonso/Mattiacci meeting, Briatore had been angrily demanding that Mattiacci honour the agreement made between Alonso and Montezemelo that Fernando could be released at the end of this season if he so wished. Mattiacci was saying that the contract ran until the end of 2016 and was watertight, with no options on Alonso’s side. When he had signed this contract a couple of years earlier, Alonso had the choice of a very lucrative contract with get-out clauses on his side or an even more lucrative one that offered him no such choices. He’d opted for the latter. Briatore insisted this had now been rendered obsolete by Montezemelo’s verbal and handshake agreement that Fernando could walk at the end of ’14, if he chose to. Even though Montezemelo was no longer there, the agreement had been reached when he represented Ferrari.

    That’s where things stood as Alonso and Mattiacci had their showdown meeting. Fernando suggested he would be prepared to continue on his current contract that ran until the end of ’16 – but with a few amendments: 1) Exit clauses that gave him certain windows – like Vettel’s Red Bull contract – to leave at the end of each season if he was below third in the championship at the cut-off date. 2) A veto over the choice of the other driver. 3) An option to choose technical staff.

    Mattiacci – a man used to having control over his employees, not forming partnerships with them or being dictated to by them – did not find any of these demands acceptable. Rather than giving yourself get-out clauses, he suggested, I’d like to see more commitment, not less. By this he meant extending beyond ’16. Fernando – who has given incredible commitment to a less than fully competitive Ferrari for five years – did not like the suggestion of him being less than fully committed. He reacted angrily. Mattiacci said that if he did not wish to continue either on his current contract or an extension of it, Ferrari would now honour the agreement made by Montezemelo, i.e. Fernando was free to leave, without either side owing the other. Briatore suggested Alonso sign the memorandum of understanding for the release, believing Mattiacci would then back down. He didn’t.

    Instead Mattiacci contacted Vettel and told him that if he was ready to sign, so was Ferrari. Red Bull announced at Suzuka that Vettel was leaving and Red Bull’s Christian Horner revealed that “Ferrari had made Sebastian a very generous offer”. It was only at this point that Alonso finally had all the pieces of the jigsaw – and further words were exchanged between him and the team boss.

    There have since been suggestions that there was an overlooked clause in the Ferrari/Alonso contract that did not allow the team to be in negotiations with other drivers before the end of the season without informing Alonso first – and that therefore Ferrari was in breach and this might be used as leverage by Briatore/Alonso to have him do one more year at Ferrari, after all. But if that was so, it’s no longer an option being pursued.

    It’s easy to understand the positions of both sides in this whole dispute. But against the bigger backdrop of the coming floatation and the strategic choices of the Fiat board, it was a minor issue. It is not believed that Mattiacci’s departure had anything to do with his Alonso negotiations. Whatever it was that caused him not to be even given another position within the Fiat empire was unrelated to how he performed his brief role as Ferrari chief.
    Of course there are all these that stupidly believe that Mattiacci was fired because of Alonso, false, that Seb was hired after Alonso, false etc.

    Feel free to read this.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  26. #1826
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    If you are claiming that what I say is false, by all means prove me false.

    Rishu, I am not crying something. I am stating. There 's a difference.
    Post the facts you claimed, don't turn it around as usual.....
    Forza Ferrari

  27. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Post the facts you claimed, don't turn it around as usual.....
    We 're all watching the same F1.
    And someone called me at being claiming false. So no, I am not turning things around. Google is everyone's friend.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  28. #1828
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    We 're all watching the same F1.
    And someone called me at being claiming false. So no, I am not turning things around. Google is everyone's friend.
    Your making the claims, so post them please.
    Forza Ferrari

  29. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Your making the claims, so post them please.
    I 've already made my claims. If you feel they're false rebut them, please.

    If you want to play this game, then every time you make a claim, you 're going to have to do what you ask me to.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  30. #1830
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I 've already made my claims. If you feel they're false rebut them, please.

    If you want to play this game, then every time you make a claim, you 're going to have to do what you ask me to.
    So as expected you can't back up your claims and try and turn it around

    We can play that game, if you back up your claims....shall we wait?
    Forza Ferrari

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