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Thread: SF71H 2018 Contender

  1. #961
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    Old pic (top) vs New pic (bottom)...SF71-H exhaust/wastegate piping

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiiSYtkXcAEa6LK.jpg


    New rear wing today

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiiQB9nW0AAy7zM.jpg

  2. #962
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    "Other systems treat their battery as one. Ferrari, it's one battery, but they treat it as two.That's the fundamental difference, I don't think it's a secret I'm giving away there" - Charlie Whiting

  3. #963
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    Can anyone copy and paste this article please?

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature...-ferrari-surge

  4. #964
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  5. #965
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    I like the aggressiveness of Ferrari!


    "Big things have small beginings"
    "Perseverence is power"

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizf1 View Post
    Can anyone copy and paste this article please?

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature...-ferrari-surge
    Ferrari's strong form at Silverstone a fortnight ago renewed focus on the progress the team has made with its car, and even prompted extra intrigue about a potential 'free' energy trick it has up its sleeve.

    But rather than this being the start of a fresh cheating controversy, it instead appears that the boffins at Maranello may be doing something very clever to exploit a freedom in the rule book.

    Ferrari was certainly in a gloating mood after Sebastian Vettel's victory in the British Grand Prix. On Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes' home soil, and at a Silverstone track that had previously favoured the Silver Arrows, Vettel and Ferrari wasted little time in rubbing salt into their rivals' wounds.

    On the team radio during his cool down lap, Vettel rammed home the message that this was a Ferrari win on someone's else territory: "Grazie regazzi! Qui a casa loro! Hahaha..."

    Later on, Ferrari ramped up the trolling by headlining its press release a 'Hammer Blow' in a cheeky reference to Mercedes' 'Hammertime' commands to Hamilton.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of Ferrari's boasts, and they may have been influenced by some emotional comments from Hamilton and Toto Wolff about the opening lap collision with Kimi Raikkonen, there is no denying the significance of Ferrari's most recent win.

    Silverstone has been a difficult hunting ground for Ferrari in recent years, and the fact that it proved so strong this time out pointed to the Maranello team having made a significant step forward in 2018.

    The momentum in previous races appeared to have swung towards Mercedes, with its engine update in France and a major car overhaul in Austria helping Hamilton to be the fastest man on each of those weekends; even if the result at the Red Bull Ring did not go his way.

    There is certainly scope to exploit some 'free' areas of F1 engines

    It was vital Ferrari hit back, and it duly responded. A major floor update and revisions to its rear bodywork helped its overall chassis performance at Silverstone, while the impression was that the engine had also taken a step forward too.

    Speed trap figures, for so long the domain of Mercedes, were led at Silverstone by Ferrari. Raikkonen's 325.6km/h (202.3mph) fastest speed was well clear of Hamilton's 321.6km/h (199.8mph) and Bottas's 320.6km/h (199.2mph).

    Taking a closer look at the exit speed of the cars onto the Hangar Straight (50 metres after Chapel) and at the speed trap (140m before Stowe), it was interesting to note that Vettel gained 53.6km/h (33mph), while Hamilton's increase was 51.1km/h (31.8mph).

    All the speed advantage that Hamilton was gaining in the corners was pretty much wiped away on the straights.

    Emphasising Ferrari's strength on the straights, both Haas cars and a Sauber also made the top 10 in qualifying.

    The trend for Ferrari's teams to be filling out those top 10 places on the speed trap figures has been growing. In Austria, Ferrari topped the speed traps and both Haas cars were in the top 10.

    Closer analysis of where the Ferrari gain came from at Silverstone hinted at the key being not an overall more powerful engine, though. After all, it was the same specification as the previous race. Instead it appeared Ferrari's energy deployment was better suited to the British circuit.

    While Mercedes was derating (running out of its electrical energy boost) at times, Ferrari was not suffering as much.

    Derating is more frequent on longer tracks because there is obviously more distance for the 4MJ energy limit per lap to cover.

    Plus, Silverstone is especially tricky for energy recovery, because the MGU-K (which harvests energy under braking) does not get many chances to fill up.

    The Northamptonshire venue is one of the easiest circuits of the year in terms of braking, with just half of the corners requiring any stopping at all. With just 10% of the lap under braking, it is in effect the hardest circuit of the year to keep the MGU-K charged.

    Any differences in the characteristics of a team's energy recovery system would be highlighted here; so it was interesting to hear Nico Rosberg put forward a fascinating theory about an area where Ferrari had been especially clever.

    In a post-race vlog he posted on his own YouTube channel, Rosberg said that he had information from an 'insider' about what Ferrari was doing.

    "They've found some extra horsepower on the engine, in the turbo just before you get into the engine," he said. "That is where a lot of electricity is being recharged, with the turbo charge and it is really for free. You can take as much extra energy from there to charge the batteries..."

    F1's engines are incredibly complex, and while there are strict limits about how much energy can be stored and extracted per lap, there is certainly scope to exploit some 'free' areas.

    Energy recovery from the MGU-K to the battery is limited to 2MJ per lap (the MGU-H is unlimited), while overall energy that can be taken from the battery to the MGU-K for deployment is 4MJ per lap.

    No such strict limit is in place for the MGU-H though, which is the area where Rosberg has suggested 'free' energy is being harvested.

    The F1 regulations state that there is no restriction on how much power the MGU-H can send to the energy store or receive back (as long as the difference between the maximum and minimum state of charge of the battery does not exceed 4MJ at any time the car is on track).

    Furthermore, the MGU-H can send as much power as it wants to the MGU-K as long as it goes through the MGU control unit (which has a maximum storage of 5KJ).

    So if Ferrari has indeed found a clever way of managing its energy deployment - using the freedom in the rules to power the MGU-K off the MGU-H at the same time that excess energy is being sent to the battery store - then that would give it a theoretical advantage that does not fall under the 4MJ limit.

    The benefit would not come from having any extra power though, because there is a maximum energy deployment limit of 120kW (160bhp) between the MGU-K and the internal combustion engine.

    Where such a system would prove beneficial would be at tracks where derating is an issue, because it would allow a team to run at the maximum 120kW limit for longer than a manufacturer that wasn't exploiting such opportunities and found itself running out of electrical power.

    Could this clever way that Ferrari has with its energy recovery system be the catalyst of the suspicions rivals had earlier this year about the strange behaviour of its power deployment? These stories first emerged in Baku - a long track where derating is also an issue...

    "It was difficult to explain exactly what we were seeing, because it's a very complex and totally different system to anybody else's"
    Charlie Whiting

    It was Ferrari's strong pace there that prompted all the talk of a clever double battery system, and an investigation from the FIA about what the Maranello team was up to.

    While Ferrari was given the all clear, it has not stopped ongoing interest in what the team is doing, especially because the fact the governing body took a while to get to the bottom of its system shows how complex it must be.

    Speaking at the Monaco GP, F1 race director Charlie Whiting offered two snippets of information that fit in perfectly with the 'free' energy theory that Rosberg has put forward.

    The first was about Ferrari having a unique battery arrangement.

    "Other systems treat their battery as one. Ferrari, it's one battery, but they treat it as two," said Whiting. "That's the fundamental difference, I don't think it's a secret I'm giving away there."

    The other was that the key area of focus for the FIA in its investigations related to energy going into the MGU-K. No mention was made of how much energy was being sent out of it, which suggests there was no concern about the levels of power being deployed going over the 120kW limit.

    "We really have been trying to get to the point where we are entirely satisfied that the power being delivered to the MGU-K is correct," said Whiting.

    "It was difficult to explain exactly what we were seeing, that's what we kept going through with Ferrari, because it's a very complex and totally different system to anybody else's."

    In a world as complex and secretive as F1, there will be no confirmation that a clever 'free energy' trick between the MGU-H and MGU-K system has been key to Ferrari's recent progress.

    Indeed, if it were an easily understood thing, then Ferrari's rivals would swiftly have copied it. Instead, it's all guesswork as to what each of the manufacturers is up to.

    Could such a system be a part of Ferrari's ongoing strong form? Almost certainly. Is it the single answer for why Ferrari has been so strong? Definitely not.

    Even reflecting on Silverstone, let's not forget Ferrari has moved away from a shorter wheelbase car this season so it did not suffer the kind of deficits it has had in the past at such high-speed tracks. It certainly was not all engine related.

    As F1 heads to the German GP, and Mercedes licks its wounds after seeing Ferrari take and extend the championship lead in recent races, it was interesting to hear Toto Wolff's declaration earlier this week about the form of the two teams over F1's triple header.

    "While we didn't maximise on points, we did bring the quickest car to all three races," said Wolff.

    This weekend, at a Hockenheim track where braking is above average and there should be no problems with derating, it will be fascinating to see if there is much of a performance swing again between Mercedes and Ferrari.

    If there is and things edge back to Mercedes, that could offer yet more of a clue as to what is going on.

    And, two weeks on from Silverstone, Mercedes will need no reminding what victory would mean a few kilometres away from its road car base - and right in Vettel's backyard.

  7. #967
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    Thanks Ramesh

  8. #968
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    Merc, Renault and Co just need to accept it and get on with it

    "7. Ferrari may have stepped up as Formula One’s leading engine manufacturer. Mercedes can seemingly hardly accept that it has lost its enormous power advantage of the last four years, but FIA’s continuous investigations clearly show that Ferrari’s PU complies with the regulations. After yesterday’s qualifying session, FIA’s Jo Bauer checked the maximum MGU-K speed, maximum MGU-K torque, the lap energy release and recovery limits, the maximum MGU-H speed, the ERS energy limits and he found that every power unit complied with the rules."

    http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/6...fying_session/

  9. #969
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    ALARM AT MERCEDES AND RENAULT

    How did Ferrari turn on the PS screw?

    At Mercedes and Renault there is an alarm. GPS measurements show that Ferrari has been exorbitantly winning time on the straights for two races. Calculations speak of a gain of 28 kilowatts. The FIA ​​assures that everything is legal. But what makes the Ferrari so fast?

    For four races there was silence in the battery battle. Now he is cooking again. At the GP Monaco Ferrari presented to the FIA ​​a solution that can be excluded illegal feeding of more than the allowed 120 kilowatts (163 hp). Ferrari had to change the software and hardware for it. The opponents had suspected that Ferrari with the help of his shared battery and a tricky circuit smuggled more electrical power to the FIA ​​sensor than allowed.

    The latest power injection came in two spurts. A moderate in Montreal, the big one in Spielberg. Since GP Austria Renault and Mercedes again measure suspicious performance data via GPS. After their calculation, the Italians have increased from one race to the next 28 kilowatts (38 hp). "That's how much you'll usually find in two years."

    From the point that is no longer determined by the traction, the scissors go up. Until then, the speed counts are parallel. Then suddenly the red line for Ferrari moves away from the corners that stand for Mercedes and Renault. At Renault already at 150, at Mercedes only at 200 km / h. If one explained this phenomenon solely with engine power, that would correspond to a difference of 28 kilowatts. In a first reflex, a trick was again suspected with the energy release from the battery. The competition wants to have determined that Ferrari retrieves an energy of 4.4 megajoules per round. 4.0 megajoules are allowed

    The MGU-K is therefore also 150 (204 hp) instead of the allowed 120 kilowatts (163 hp) fed into the system. FIA race director Charlie Whiting asserted that all data analysis revealed that Ferrari operates in the legal area. The FIA ​​measures at two points. Once the electrical power at the output of the battery, then the torque on the crankshaft. Both must match. That's the case with Ferrari. The assumption that Ferrari distributes his electric power differently and prefers to call it in the second part of the straight rather than the first, makes little sense. Most of the lap time is won in the first part of the acceleration phase. Apparently, Ferrari does not have to make sacrifices either at the beginning of the straight or at the end. "At a certain speed we can not follow anymore."

    Ferrari wins on the straights

    Oddly enough, the huge power boost at Ferrari did not materialize immediately with the launch of the Spec2 drive at GP Canada, but only two races later in Austria. That would speak for a software change, since the new hardware was already in use for two races. At the GP Austria it was determined that Ferrari on the first three straights of the Red Bull Ring in the power limited range has made an exorbitant performance, while at the end of the round was back to normal.

    Same game in Silverstone, where the power increase was seen mainly on the Wellington straight and the full throttle passage in front of the Becketts curve. In Hockenheim Ferrari's enigmatic performance explosion was seen again. The red cars made up four tenths on the Mercedes and eight tenths on the cars with Renault engines on all straights. The advantage helps Ferrari not only in the qualifying rounds. At Silverstone, Mercedes noted with concern that Ferrari had significantly less de-rating in the race. This refers to switching to charging mode at the end of the straight line. Those who can avoid De-rating, the energy storage obviously filled in other parts of the course. Which is difficult at Silverstone because of the few braking points.

    The customer teams Sauber and HaasF1 only partially testify to Ferrari's miracle engine. They took the first step in Canada, the second one in Austria. Whatever Ferrari has found, it has to be in an area of ​​the drive where the factory and customer do not have to be the same.

    Renault calls for unitary software

    Meanwhile, we hear that the Ferrari coup has nothing to do with the electric power from the MGU-K. But what else is in question? A tricky reduction in aerodynamic drag in the DRS zones? If that were the case, only Ferrari would benefit, not the customer teams. However, they also benefit from the recent power boost. HaasF1 has established itself as the fourth fastest car since a few races. And Sauber constantly qualifies with a car in the top ten.

    So is the secret in the drive? Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff tries the exclusion procedure: "Raikkonen still drives the first engine specification, but is still faster on the straights. So it can not be the combustion engine. All Ferrari teams have now changed only the MGU-K and the battery. This excludes these components. "Only the turbocharger and the MGU-H remain. They were swapped at GP Canada.

    Does Ferrari perhaps use the MGU-H smarter than the competition? Normally this costs the engine too much power because of the exhaust backpressure. That would not explain 28 kilowatts. But perhaps Ferrari has found a way to reduce the power loss of the internal combustion engine. Renault Sports Director Cyril Abiteboul calls for a standard software for energy management: "That would rule out any suspicion. Unless you're able to tell clearly whether a technique is legal or not, you have to unify it.
    Last edited by phsyklone; 24th July 2018 at 01:38.

  10. #970
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    It's getting silly all this talk from Merc that the Ferrari engine and other PU components are now the fastest unit on the straights. That's just simply not true as could be seen in the last stint at Hockenheim. What Ferrari have achieved is a car that has great traction out of slow corners. It just so happens that a lot of long straights come after slow corners (turn 2 and 6 at Hockenheim). But what really is happening is that because of that great traction the car comes up in top speed for each gear quicker than other cars. So depending on when you time a car it's going to show that Ferrari, before hitting top gear (8th), has hit top speed for each gear quicker than Merc. But when you then time the top speed when cars have hit top speed for 8th gear then Merc claws back almost all it lost earlier on the straight. And then before the braking zone they might still even be ahead as could be seen in the fight between Kimi and Bottas at the end because of their chassis. Toto is just cherry picking their least strong part of a straight. There is no half a second difference. It's just mind games to make Ferrari ease off on the development.

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    According to Helmut Marko, Sebastian Vettel's contribution was immense in helping Ferrari overhaul Mercedes on engine front:

    Red Bull's Marko raises his eyebrows not at Ferrari, but at the suspicions being cast on the Italian team by Mercedes.

    "Mercedes had the best engine for four years, but now Ferrari does," he told Auto Bild.

    "They should accept that and not wash their dirty clothes. At Red Bull, we do not participate in these rumours. We know what Sebastian (Vettel) can do, including in engine development.

    "He has made sure that Ferrari overtook Mercedes," Marko added.

    "Now Mercedes always needs luck to win," he said. "If everything goes normally, Ferrari is ahead."

  13. #973
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    Hey hey well said marko mercedes can not except being beaten with technology bloody cry babies.

  14. #974
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    512TR you are dreaming ferrari will never stop developing the party has just started this is what sergio reinforced back at maranello rest in peace sm.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Hey hey well said marko mercedes can not except being beaten with technology bloody cry babies.
    lol yeah they are in shock that despite getting a 2 year head start, Ferrari has developed a better engine than them.

  16. #976
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    HAAS and Sauber get the spec 3 engine.

    It's good they run it before it goes on the Ferrari incase of anything missed on the dyno. Merc don't do that if anything give it to customer teams later

    http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...an_Grand_Prix/

  17. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    512TR you are dreaming ferrari will never stop developing the party has just started this is what sergio reinforced back at maranello rest in peace sm.
    I'm not dreaming about anything. I just said Merc are playing mind games to unload pressure from themselves on put it on Ferrari. That way it's win-win for them and the media are on board on their side.

  18. #978
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    Via ESPN F1

    Some interesting stuff to look out for this weekend on the engine side. Haas and Sauber have fitted new parts to all four of their cars, confirming reports this week of both moving to the newest Ferrari upgrade. The factory team will not take the upgrade until after the summer break, in time for the power-sensitive Spa-Francorchamps and Monza circuits, but yesterday U.S. magazine Racer reported the upgrade is expected to worth up to 40 brakehorsepower. If that figure is accurate, it represents another very impressive step forward for Ferrari with the engine now considered to be the benchmark in F1.

    we need a fingers crossed emoji!!!!!!! @Rob???

  19. #979
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    Top Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by mizf1 View Post
    HAAS and Sauber get the spec 3 engine.

    It's good they run it before it goes on the Ferrari incase of anything missed on the dyno. Merc don't do that if anything give it to customer teams later

    http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...an_Grand_Prix/
    Where can we get the top speeds of FP2?? Would like to know the efects of Spec3 on Hass and Sauber....

  20. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by GustavoTrunci View Post
    Where can we get the top speeds of FP2?? Would like to know the efects of Spec3 on Hass and Sauber....
    page 3 (2018 Hungarian GP practice and qualifying thread) post #77

  21. #981
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    I don`t know, but Nico Rosberg said in one video that Ferrari can harvest (unlimited) free power to battery via turbo.
    Charlie Whiting said that Ferrari`s battery system is unique.

    And that is why Kimi (with old PU) can be as fast as Seb (with new PU).


    Toto:
    Independent from the power unit because one car -- the Raikkonen car still has the first spec in the car -- Vettel has a new spec in the car

    http://tv5.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24...severe-warning
    Last edited by KimiBot; 28th July 2018 at 00:20.

  22. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    I don`t know, but Nico Rosberg said in one video that Ferrari can harvest (unlimited) free power to battery via turbo.
    Charlie Whiting said that Ferrari`s battery system is unique.

    And that is why Kimi (with old PU) can be as fast as Seb (with new PU).


    Toto:
    Independent from the power unit because one car -- the Raikkonen car still has the first spec in the car -- Vettel has a new spec in the car

    http://tv5.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24...severe-warning
    One theory is that Ferrari is spinning the turbo alot faster than normal (100k - 120k rpm's) thereby harvesting the 2 batteries and deploying them at any given time. You don't here much about the KERS unit as that is limited under braking but the turbo is another matter all too different. Hence why this Spec 3 engine upgrade involves: ICE, MGU-H, & TC.

  23. #983
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    translator


    - Others understand their battery system as one. Ferrari has one battery, but they treat it as two. There is a decisive difference. And I do not think I'm going to reveal any secrets, Charlie Whiting, a FIA agent, said.

    - It's hard to explain everything we saw. We're still going through Ferrari. It is an extremely complex and totally different system than anybody else, he continued by strengthening the system's rules.
    -------------------------------------------------
    I could not find source for that, it was in Finnish media


    edit: I am late, just saw that it was all here allready, lol
    Last edited by KimiBot; 28th July 2018 at 01:04.

  24. #984
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    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...y-1065227/?s=1

    one of the best wet drivers admits his car is really bad in the wets, and i think it should allow us to say the ferrari is not good at all in the wets compared to mercedes.

    Yeah kimi could'v should'v would'v gotten pole maybe according to him, but he says that every Q3 .

    Lets hope we dont have anymore wet sessions or else we are going to be stuck damage limitation against mercedes who are leading the championships.

    The kinder and less load you put into these 2017-2018 wets/inters, but especially wets, the less grip you get.
    Ferrari being more gentle and rb being the most gentle have a disadvantage on wet tyres.
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  25. #985
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    yeah, when a driver says 'I could have had pole', well you take it with a pinch of salt. The fact is we will never know.

  26. #986
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    Ferrari has the quickest car on track for the first time since 2008" but due to "mix of mistakes, crashes & lost opportunities" hasn't been leading the championship, reckons Ross Brawn

  27. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    I don`t know, but Nico Rosberg said in one video that Ferrari can harvest (unlimited) free power to battery via turbo.
    Charlie Whiting said that Ferrari`s battery system is unique.

    And that is why Kimi (with old PU) can be as fast as Seb (with new PU).


    Toto:
    Independent from the power unit because one car -- the Raikkonen car still has the first spec in the car -- Vettel has a new spec in the car

    http://tv5.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24...severe-warning
    Kimi with Spec 1 is having as much power as Vettel is having with Spec 2 so Ferrari gained no raw advantage with Spec 2?

  28. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Kimi with Spec 1 is having as much power as Vettel is having with Spec 2 so Ferrari gained no raw advantage with Spec 2?
    Yup, rumored spec 2 is supposedly about 5hp+
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  29. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Kimi with Spec 1 is having as much power as Vettel is having with Spec 2 so Ferrari gained no raw advantage with Spec 2?
    Well, it looks like so, but it does not matter, if "Ferrari can harvest (unlimited) free power to battery via turbo."

  30. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Well, it looks like so, but it does not matter, if "Ferrari can harvest (unlimited) free power to battery via turbo."
    I think over 1 lap, spec 1 and 2 are not massively different. I think where spec 2 makes the difference is better fuel compsumption. Over a race distance if you run with less KG then this equates to lap time.

    Also encouraging words from Gio since he last drove the car in May

    http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi..._dramatically/

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