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Thread: The Ferrari Smoke. Please explain??? (photo included)

  1. #1
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    The Ferrari Smoke. Please explain??? (photo included)

    Theres all this talk about our car creating alot of smoke during testing, but according to this photo, it doesnt look to be coming from our car at all. Can someone explain why Ferrari would be doing this?
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    CUT ME. CUT YOU. BOTH OUR BLOOD IS FERRARI RED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfunk257 View Post
    Theres all this talk about our car creating alot of smoke during testing, but according to this photo, it doesnt look to be coming from our car at all. Can someone explain why Ferrari would be doing this?
    It's not just the SF71-H, its Alfa-Sauber and HAAS.....all cars with Ferrari engines. From the photo's and videos, the smoke appears to be white in nature. Last year, the Merc's did this at start up with two things to note when compared to the SF71-H: 1.) Mercs cars smoke were blue in nature and 2.) the excess smoke in the SF71-H vs the W08(last yr) is hardly a wisp of smoke(W08).

    The FIA does'nt seem to worried about it at the moment.

    my guess as to why this is happening???

    While the car is in the garage it is vented out through some tubes. While in the pits (outside and screened) the excess smoke is vented out the back and into the air as seen in a video. While on track, it is vented out through the back of the car.

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    http://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-not...oking-ferrari/

    The FIA have no concerns over the smoke that emanated from the Ferrari garage at winter testing as the effect is not continuing out on track.

    Smoke also emerged from the garages of the Ferrari-powered Haas and Sauber at the Circuit de Catalunya, but the FIA are happy at this stage that this is just a direct result of the new regulations that will clamp down on oil-burning for power-boosting purposes.

    Teams are no longer to channel any power unit breather fluids back to the engine and it must now exit the car from the rear and this is what Ferrari have been doing before heading out on track.

    FIA director Charlie Whiting cited Toro Rosso as an example from last year as to what exactly is happening, and because the smoke is not continuing to be created out on track then it is not an issue that needs to be investigated further.

    When asked by Motorsport.com about the smoking Ferrari, Whiting said: "We see it quite often, we saw it a lot with the Toro Rosso last year whenever they fired up.

    "We think that's just oil getting into the turbo through the seals. It's not doing it on the track."
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    Then WHY is not Merc engines do it?

    But if it’s not a problem and is fine with Ferrari then I guess we’re ok....let’s hope
    ...the new SF71H looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


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    And explained again in more detail here:

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...sting-1014194/

    One of the more curious aspects of pre-season Formula 1 testing revolved around the Ferrari-powered teams, and the huge plumes of smoke being pumped out of their cars.

    Rather than it being a one-off occurrence, it became a pretty normal state of affairs for a cloud of smoke to engulf the pit lane just prior to Ferrari emerging from its garage.
    The characteristic, which happened with customer teams Sauber and Haas too, left many people scratching their heads and wondering if Ferrari was up to some special engine tricks.

    However, it appears that the smoke was in fact a consequence of new F1 regulations brought in this year to clamp down on oil burn, an activity that Ferrari was believed to be particularly active in last year.

    New rules

    As well as new requirements to help the FIA monitor the amount of oil that teams are burning, other tweaks to the rules have been introduced regarding the piping of oil vapour from catch tanks.

    Previously it had been possible – through the use of active control valves – to feed this vapour back into the car's airbox, where it could then be fed into the engine and burned for a power boost.

    However, two new 2018 rules now prohibit such behaviour and force teams to feed out any excess oil vapour from the back of the car.
    Article 5.1.12 of F1's technical regulations states: "All power unit breather fluids may only vent to atmosphere and must pass through an orifice which is positioned rearward of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. No breather fluids may re-enter the power unit."

    Article 7.8 states: "The use of active control valves between any part of the PU and the engine intake air is forbidden."

    New piping

    These rules have prompted teams to fit piping to feed oil vapour out the back of their cars, and it was this that was causing the smoke in Barcelona.

    Ferrari has elected to pipe its vapour through a channel built into the lower part of its crash structure casing.

    This, paired with what appears to be much more oil vapour being dispensed by the power unit than other teams, resulted in the distinctive vapour trail in testing.

    The very cold conditions exacerbated things too – considering how warm the oil vapour would have been – and the effect out on the circuit will have been exaggerated by air flowing around the crash structure and through the diffuser.

    No concerns from the FIA

    Although the smoke looked quite dramatic, the FIA has no concerns about the situation being anything it will need to interfere with, because it is not happening out on the circuit.

    F1 race director Charlie Whiting suggested that the Ferrari characteristic was similar to what happened with Toro Rosso on occasion last year on the grid.

    When asked by Motorsport.com about the smoking Ferrari matter, Whiting said: "We see it quite often, we saw it a lot with the Toro Rosso last year whenever they fired up.

    "We think that's just oil getting into the turbo through the seals. It's not doing it on the track."
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

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    Are HAAS and Sauber also using Shell oil?

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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    Some things on other sites saying Ferrari are taking oil for mguh and getting through a seal into the turbo compressor so back down the intake manifold to burn. Rules only said breather pipe to exit out the back nothing about a convoluted way to get oil in the intake manifd in another way. Would make sense as to why heavy smoke when not moving as maybe not enough preassure to force through the seal so burns out the back as its hot back there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark p View Post
    Some things on other sites saying Ferrari are taking oil for mguh and getting through a seal into the turbo compressor so back down the intake manifold to burn. Rules only said breather pipe to exit out the back nothing about a convoluted way to get oil in the intake manifd in another way. Would make sense as to why heavy smoke when not moving as maybe not enough preassure to force through the seal so burns out the back as its hot back there.
    It would be nice and clever of Ferrari to do something like that, but personally don’t think it is....then again we would NEVER know.....
    ...the new SF71H looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    It would be nice and clever of Ferrari to do something like that, but personally don’t think it is....then again we would NEVER know.....
    Agreed. It must have something to do with designed intention. No engines broke and Merc have often over past few years looked smokey coming out the pit lane. If many negative rumours are taken as fact why not a ppsitive one ecen though they may all be a load of rubbish. I think it ws just for testing to celebrate resigning with Philip Morris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark p View Post
    Agreed. It must have something to do with designed intention. No engines broke and Merc have often over past few years looked smokey coming out the pit lane. If many negative rumours are taken as fact why not a ppsitive one ecen though they may all be a load of rubbish. I think it ws just for testing to celebrate resigning with Philip Morris.
    oh, yeah.....i never thought of that.....a.k.a Marlborro man smoking away....lol
    ...the new SF71H looks amazing. Let's hope it's gonna be as FAST as it looks.


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    Not sure I buy the turbo seal story - it would not be clever to let that happen as you would be coating the whole air cooling system inside with oil - that just drops its efficiency(if it is on the intake side for performance gains).
    It seems to only happen at startup - and like the FIA said it does not do it continuously the whole time on track - from testing I have not seen a single puff of smoke from the exhaust on a ferrari powered car out on track (yes from the breather, but that is not what we are talking about here)

    If it is oil - I don't think its from the turbo(at least not the intake side) and oil will more likely pass a seal if it is hot, not colder at startup.

    But - oil is not the only liquid that will make smoke.
    Over fueling can do that on startup, water or other cooling liquids could do as well.

    So it is either a over fueling, or some liquid is leaking into the intake _ maybe its some sort of tricky water injection ?

    So it is difficult to say, unless someone is there and can maybe smell the smoke
    Last edited by MikeT; 15th March 2018 at 07:48.

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    Ok thank you all for clearing that up
    CUT ME. CUT YOU. BOTH OUR BLOOD IS FERRARI RED!

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    Isn't oil smoke blue...

    Coolant smoke is white.

    Something doesn't add up.

    Also, venting oil vapors out the back of the car is rather insane. Where do you think that smoke settles? On the racing line. What happens when there is oil on the racing line? Not anything good.

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    Ya coolant burns white. So Ferrari and Shell have developed combustible engine coolant that gets injected into the cylinders instead of oil? Awesome. That is innovative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Ya coolant burns white. So Ferrari and Shell have developed combustible engine coolant that gets injected into the cylinders instead of oil? Awesome. That is innovative.
    Until it gets banned by the FIA after Merc and RB make a fuss over it! But of course you were being sarcastic, Silent Bob, and I've probably made a fool of myself believing that a combustible engine coolant is a reality! I have edited this comment having read the subsequent posts, so as not to sound totally stupid!!
    Last edited by wisepie; 15th March 2018 at 20:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Ya coolant burns white. So Ferrari and Shell have developed combustible engine coolant that gets injected into the cylinders instead of oil? Awesome. That is innovative.
    Does not have to be combustible - ever heard of water injection ?
    Very effective way of suppressing detonation and cooling the intake charge ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
    Does not have to be combustible - ever heard of water injection ?
    Very effective way of suppressing detonation and cooling the intake charge ...
    I was being sarcastic. Water injection is banned from F1.

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    What about when it rains or drizzles? 6 cars emitting whatever it is now gets mixed with rain/drizzle on the track during FP, Quali, or Race. Will it make the track more slippery??

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    It's only on cold startup. Oil burning is limited to .6L . it's not going to cause mass pile-ups. It probably burns a lot less once it's warmed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
    Not sure I buy the turbo seal story - it would not be clever to let that happen as you would be coating the whole air cooling system inside with oil - that just drops its efficiency(if it is on the intake side for performance gains).
    It seems to only happen at startup - and like the FIA said it does not do it continuously the whole time on track - from testing I have not seen a single puff of smoke from the exhaust on a ferrari powered car out on track (yes from the breather, but that is not what we are talking about here)

    If it is oil - I don't think its from the turbo(at least not the intake side) and oil will more likely pass a seal if it is hot, not colder at startup.

    But - oil is not the only liquid that will make smoke.
    Over fueling can do that on startup, water or other cooling liquids could do as well.

    So it is either a over fueling, or some liquid is leaking into the intake _ maybe its some sort of tricky water injection ?

    So it is difficult to say, unless someone is there and can maybe smell the smoke
    Would the oil through a seal not tie in with what you said....only happens when hot could not pass through when cold hence smoke on start up as too cold to get through the seal so burns out the back? When it heats up it goes through the seal and into the intake via the compressor so no smoke when warmed up and car is out on track?

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    Was asking very well known F1 technical specialist today, about the whole smoke thing. Due to respecting his privacy, i will only quote small part of an email

    The vapour when on track coming from under the tail light is just oil mist from the breather condensing in the cold.

    2 The smoke on start up is leak from the turbo seals. The Merc has always done this a lot.
    It could just be the lack of seals to reduce friction.
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    got this from F1 technical for a better explanation for the smoke.

    Formula 1 technology secret unveiled: That's why Ferraris Heck smokes

    Ferrari draws attention to itself with a smoking tail during the Formula 1 test drives. Motorsport-Magazin.com knows what's behind it.

    It is well known that Ferrari is still financially supported by a tobacco company, although its logo may no longer appear on the cars. Is that why Ferrari is now doing surreptitious advertising and letting smoke escape from the stern? Of course not, but the question why smoke regularly rises above the diffuser has interested many readers.

    Motorsport-Magazin.com has therefore taken a closer look at the Ferrari and knows what is behind the smoke signals. Strictly speaking, not only the Ferrari smokes, but all Ferrari-driven vehicles, including Sauber and Haas. Especially when driving slowly or standing, it smokes a lot.

    The smoke emanates below the exhaust, which is why if you look at it briefly, you might think it smokes out of the exhaust. In fact, however, at the end of the rear crash structure there are slits above and below the LED flashing light. The smoke flows from these openings. Ferrari, Haas and Sauber have such slots - the other teams do not.

    But where does the smoke come from? It comes from the so-called catch-can, often called catch-tank. It sits on the engine and catches, as the name suggests, something - namely oil. More about this oil soon. This oil does not need to be cooled because it is no longer needed. However, one wants to dissipate the waste heat and this is done via a hose to the rear crash structure. The oil is not burned.

    Now it would be clear where the smoke comes from. But why doesn't the Ferrari engine start this year? Finally, the engine regulations remained stable. Not quite. The FIA has been trying to fill in gaps over the winter. Specifically, this concerns the illegal burning of oil.

    2018 Formula 1 cars with Catch-Can

    Ferrari and Mercedes were suspected of deliberately carrying oil into the combustion chamber in order to achieve more power. In addition to a maximum consumption of oil, the FIA has also initiated technical changes. Active valves between oil tank and intake tract are prohibited.

    In order to understand what exactly happens, you have to look at the steps of a four-stroke combustion engine. First air is sucked in and mixed with the gasoline. Then the mixture is compressed. Ignition is only initiated in the third step.

    The problem lies in compacting: The forces are so high that the sealing rings cannot seal one hundred percent between piston and liner in the engine block. This causes a small part of the mixture to escape. However, the mixture does not simply disappear, but wanders past the connecting rod towards the crankcase.

    Prevent overpressure in the oil circuit

    The crankcase contains oil to lubricate bearings and cool the parts. Since pressure is created by the gasoline air mixture entering the tank, there is a venting system. Small quantities of oil escape through this opening. This oil is actually transported directly into the intake tract and then burned.

    Due to the fact that an unnaturally high oil consumption was observed in some engines, the conclusion was obvious that it was deliberately followed up here and transported oil towards the intake tract. This pipeline is therefore prohibited. So that the oil does not suck in the tail, there is the so-called Catch-Can. This is a mundane container that collects this separated oil.

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    I'm currently subscribed to Motorsport Prime, and Gary Anderson said that he isn't sure why there is smoke but he believes that it may be a particular type of oil seal used in the turbo, where the seals require oil pressure to be pushed into their seats and sealing positions. This would mean that oil would seep out from the turbo seals and into the engine intake until full oil pressure is reached. Makes sense - we just never noticed it in the past because they were running positive crankcase ventilation systems, where the crankcase fumes had no where to go but back into the intake of the engine. Most likely there was smoke but it was just re-burned - no big deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phsyklone View Post
    yep, Petronas(oil supplier) were adding "additives" (which they could call detergents, scrubbers etc, or whatever) to aid in boosting upon detonation. No one would be the wiser because the FIA: 1.) Had no clue what these additives were 2.) Did not have the "know-how" of the molecular breakdown like they do with fuel. 3.) These additives would burn upon detonation so no way of getting a fingerprint of said additive or additives.

    Mercedes and Petronas can't do this anymore for 2018.

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