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Thread: Ricciardo having a pre contract with Ferrari - Hughes

  1. #91
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    Oh Max would have binned the car, as he always does, he is the new Maldonado.
    He is becoming his father. Brembo has an anti Vettel bias that’s why he talks like that.

    I really didn’t liked Vettel driving for Red Bull and when he replaced ALonso with I loved, was terrible for mi, but I’m sure he is a really working hard guy which have helped to create a winning team; if he becomes another Shumi, great! Best for Ferrari.




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  2. #92
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    Ferrari isn't RBR. They won't stand for those shinanigans. The team always comes first. There is always a number 1 and a number 2. DR has too lofty an idea of himself and won't want to play second fiddle to Seb. Seb did the same thing at RBR. Remember Multi 21 and Turkey? If Daniel comes to Ferrari we can expect more of that. As much as I love Kimi I believe he has accepted his role as understudy. He is my all time favorite driver but he is in the twilight of his career. I think he is just having fun at this point. So far this year, he has done a decent job, I see no reason to replace him until Charles is ready.

    Charles will be happy to be Best Supporting Actress until Seb retires or leaves Ferrari.

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    I will have to wait until after Hungary to way in into Ricciardo to Ferrari.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I love the rare occasions when you write lucid responses, even if I don't agree.

    I don't like Max's style at all. He's fast, but incredibly reckless and shows little sign of developing. My favorite driving style is that of Alonso's. Even in an inferior car, I always felt like a victory was a possibility when he was driving for us. He was fast, shrewd, and calculating.
    I agree 100%, why did Ferrari ever let him go ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I agree 100%, why did Ferrari ever let him go ?
    Same reason no top team wants him at the moment, despite his huge talent

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    The thing is this. You have to go back a few years to the Alonso years to understand what Ferrari did. The LdM "Alonso project" was a failure because he had a demoralized Felipe Massa as team mate. Something Alonso and only himslef was guilty of creating. Since that Hockenheim incident Massa rarely took points off Alonso's rivals. So Alonso ended up 2nd three times in five seasons and I guess it was poetic justice that he couldn't pass Petrov in Abu Dhabi 2010 and that Button won in Brazil in 2012.

    Ferrari evaluated the situation very carefully and acknowledged that to have a shot at both titles they obviously would need a great package, but as importantly, a calmness inside the team. So they shelved out a lof money to get Vettel. Kimi was already there. They knew both of these guys are friends off the track. If some Ferrari fans want to get Ricciardo in the team, that calmness and good spirit will be out of the door on day one. I promise you that. Ferrari has invested a lot in the "Vettel project". If they go back on that now after only three season they are very stupid. And I don't believe Sergio is as stupid as it turned out Ldm actually was. Yes, there will come a day when Kimi quits F1 but that hasn't have to be at the end of this season. If it is, then there are many other options to continue the "Vettel project". But if Ferrari want to open Pandoras box again then be my guest but don't expect me to support it. All those Alonso seasons are even more incomprehensible knowing what he was involved in at the Singapore 2008 race, basicly robbing Ferrari of the WDC. This is the last thing that I write regarding the Ricciardo possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    The thing is this. You have to go back a few years to the Alonso years to understand what Ferrari did. The LdM "Alonso project" was a failure because he had a demoralized Felipe Massa as team mate. Something Alonso and only himslef was guilty of creating. Since that Hockenheim incident Massa rarely took points off Alonso's rivals. So Alonso ended up 2nd three times in five seasons and I guess it was poetic justice that he couldn't pass Petrov in Abu Dhabi 2010 and that Button won in Brazil in 2012.

    Ferrari evaluated the situation very carefully and acknowledged that to have a shot at both titles they obviously would need a great package, but as importantly, a calmness inside the team. So they shelved out a lof money to get Vettel. Kimi was already there. They knew both of these guys are friends off the track. If some Ferrari fans want to get Ricciardo in the team, that calmness and good spirit will be out of the door on day one. I promise you that. Ferrari has invested a lot in the "Vettel project". If they go back on that now after only three season they are very stupid. And I don't believe Sergio is as stupid as it turned out Ldm actually was. Yes, there will come a day when Kimi quits F1 but that hasn't have to be at the end of this season. If it is, then there are many other options to continue the "Vettel project". But if Ferrari want to open Pandoras box again then be my guest but don't expect me to support it. All those Alonso seasons are even more incomprehensible knowing what he was involved in at the Singapore 2008 race, basicly robbing Ferrari of the WDC. This is the last thing that I write regarding the Ricciardo possibility.
    I would say Kimi was largely hired to try and control Fernando, who felt he was running the team at that point. Then Alonso beat Kimi by even more than he'd been beating Massa.

    Kimi and Vettel aren't so different in terms of pace lately, I think Fernando would be well clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I agree 100%, why did Ferrari ever let him go ?
    Why Ferrari let Alonso go?

    Alonso has labeled his time with Ferrari: "My time with Ferrari was a very very sad time, I probably should have left earlier". Do you think Ferrari wants to have a number one driver with that attitude towards the team?

    Fernando did perform well in the car for the scuderia, but he also brought his usual drama/whining and primadonna ways. Thats why Alonso is considered toxic in all the top teams of Formula 1.

    Marco Mattiachi was basicly an exterminator that would make sure to eliminate the Alonso pest that was suffocating Ferrari and Maranello, and he sure did clean out the Alonso trash.

    Ferrari believed Vettel could perform at an Alonso level, or if a bit below the harmony within the team would mean more than little extra performance advantage Alonso might bring.

    I am sure Vettels and Alonsos ages also were a factor.
    Michael Schumacher - "I dont give gifts on track.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Kimi and Vettel aren't so different in terms of pace lately, I think Fernando would be well clear.
    Did I read this right?

    I can only think of maybe 2-4 races during the last 3 seasons where Kimi has performed better in the race than Vettel.

    Raikkonen might have discovered a decent form in qualy this season because the car is better, but his overall form is shockingly bad.

    Kimis racecraft is limited to gaining places from others pitting or accidents. Kimi in 95% of the races never beats Vettel, Hamilton or Bottas/Rosberg to any position on track by overtaking. (and this is something that is widely notice)

    Ocons comments the other day says it all: "What do we want to tell Kimi? He doesn't talk. He's not in the [track] position he should be in a Ferrari."

    Sadly a bitter Ocon is correct.

    To state that Vettel and Raikkonens pace lately or ever is not so different is something I can not understand at all.
    ---
    Based on performance Raikkonen should have been out of Ferrari 3 years ago....
    Last edited by Lesky; 1st May 2018 at 22:52.
    Michael Schumacher - "I dont give gifts on track.”

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Why Ferrari let Alonso go?

    Alonso has labeled his time with Ferrari: "My time with Ferrari was a very very sad time, I probably should have left earlier". Do you think Ferrari wants to have a number one driver with that attitude towards the team?

    Fernando did perform well in the car for the scuderia, but he also brought his usual drama/whining and primadonna ways. Thats why Alonso is considered toxic in all the top teams of Formula 1.

    Marco Mattiachi was basicly an exterminator that would make sure to eliminate the Alonso pest that was suffocating Ferrari and Maranello.
    That is quite a lot of revisionist history there. Alonso missed out on the championship in 2010 and 2012 and he had a very haunted look in his eyes after the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix. People were getting axed and quitting right and left, and the team was in shambles in 2013 and 2014. Those were extremely dark times at Ferrari and I don't care to revisit them any time soon. I get why Alonso asked Luca to let him go. If he had started with the team in 2015, he would be singing a very different tune. It's easy to be happy when things are going well.

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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    That is quite a lot of revisionist history there. Alonso missed out on the championship in 2010 and 2012 and he had a very haunted look in his eyes after the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix. People were getting axed and quitting right and left, and the team was in shambles in 2013 and 2014. Those were extremely dark times at Ferrari and I don't care to revisit them any time soon. I get why Alonso asked Luca to let him go. If he had started with the team in 2015, he would be singing a very different tune. It's easy to be happy when things are going well.
    Your reply does not change the fact that Alonso has been an egomaniac problem during his entire career to every team he has represented. This is widely known in the paddock, I remember Horner always saying about Alonso to Red Bull, "Alonso is quick, but he comes with a bagage". Just check Alonsos comments during his McLaren time, during testing "I feel like I am the fastest guy out there, now I just need an enginge" and after the last race: "No other driver would have even made it back to the pits" (speaking of his punctured Mclaren vehicle). The list goes on and on and on. Alonso is full of himself and it has hurt his F1 career badly. Karma.

    I was very much into the details of Alonsos departure, and I can say for sure if Alonso wanted to leave Ferrari, Ferrari wanted to get rid of Alonso just as badly or more. It was not like Ferrari was go to go happy with Alonso and Alonso decided to bolt, there was a long internal disturbance that lead to Ferrari wanting Alonso gone no matter what.

    With the outdrawn and dirty ending of Fernandos Ferrari stint, I cant ever imagine Ferrari considering taking him back - although I would suspect Alonso might behave better now after being a bottom feeder for almost 4 years. The desperation of getting back to the top would perhaps be enough for him to turn down his ego a bit and not become a burden to the team.
    ---
    All in all you could say Schumacher and Vettel are the opposite personalities of Alonso - they never felt the need to praise themselves and pump up their reputation by talking about how great they were/are! (something Alonso does on a regular basis)

    Ferrari wants team players first.
    Last edited by Lesky; 1st May 2018 at 23:10.
    Michael Schumacher - "I dont give gifts on track.”

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    I would say Kimi was largely hired to try and control Fernando, who felt he was running the team at that point. Then Alonso beat Kimi by even more than he'd been beating Massa.

    Kimi and Vettel aren't so different in terms of pace lately, I think Fernando would be well clear.
    Alonso is best driver on grid in shitbox cars like F14T, Kimi exact opposite. I doubt, over one lap, Alonso was ever faster then Kimi. Kimi is extremely fast driver when car is to his liking, as his driving style is theoretically faster then Alonso's (who likes understeer, and F14T understeered like crazy). Kimi on other hand loves strong front end and hates understeer (as do most drivers on grid).

    In any case, Kimi's biggest problem is his inability to adapt and perhaps biggest of all, underwhelming racecraft in last Ferrari stint. Kimi from 2005 was animal, today? He will rarely pull that thing on Ocon (which was good in my eyes, I said "Finally!").

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    I think 2 things that Ferrari tend to do in the past, is to have a clear driver no. 1 and 2, and only invest in proven talent.

    So far, MA seem to continue such arrangement when he extended the contract for our current drivers. It is the safest arrangement, but who knows if he plan to continue it.

    Ric will definitely not play into that 1-2 arrangement, so it would take a change of philosophy in the team before Ferrari would hire Ric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    I think 2 things that Ferrari tend to do in the past, is to have a clear driver no. 1 and 2, and only invest in proven talent.

    So far, MA seem to continue such arrangement when he extended the contract for our current drivers. It is the safest arrangement, but who knows if he plan to continue it.

    Ric will definitely not play into that 1-2 arrangement, so it would take a change of philosophy in the team before Ferrari would hire Ric.
    +1

    Plus I don't think Ricci will sign a 1yr contract with the Scuderia; he's gonna want a multi-year deal......I would. If I'm #2 and only get a 1yr deal with the Scuderia, I might as well stay with RB.


    HOWEVER, if Max keeps "mucking-up" then RB in turn makes Ricci their favorite and possibly Max gets demoted to STR like Kvyat. So who would fill Max's spot????

    We will have Kimi for one more year if the above scenario plays out.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 2nd May 2018 at 01:56.

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    Ferrari needs to get Kimi on pole for a few races, 2nd place points & podium is not good enough . Dan , Bottas no where to be found! . Ferrari needs to switch #2 to #1 , #1 to #2 and see how it goes. Seb is all for team harmony, he will go along with it for sure , not like Alonso.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchild View Post
    Alonso is best driver on grid in shitbox cars like F14T, Kimi exact opposite. I doubt, over one lap, Alonso was ever faster then Kimi.
    Wasn't Kimi slower than Massa in qualifying all three seasons?

    Lets be realistic here, Fernando doesn't get enough praise for just how fast he is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Your reply does not change the fact that Alonso has been an egomaniac problem during his entire career to every team he has represented. This is widely known in the paddock, I remember Horner always saying about Alonso to Red Bull, "Alonso is quick, but he comes with a bagage". Just check Alonsos comments during his McLaren time, during testing "I feel like I am the fastest guy out there, now I just need an enginge" and after the last race: "No other driver would have even made it back to the pits" (speaking of his punctured Mclaren vehicle). The list goes on and on and on. Alonso is full of himself and it has hurt his F1 career badly. Karma.

    I was very much into the details of Alonsos departure, and I can say for sure if Alonso wanted to leave Ferrari, Ferrari wanted to get rid of Alonso just as badly or more. It was not like Ferrari was go to go happy with Alonso and Alonso decided to bolt, there was a long internal disturbance that lead to Ferrari wanting Alonso gone no matter what.

    With the outdrawn and dirty ending of Fernandos Ferrari stint, I cant ever imagine Ferrari considering taking him back - although I would suspect Alonso might behave better now after being a bottom feeder for almost 4 years. The desperation of getting back to the top would perhaps be enough for him to turn down his ego a bit and not become a burden to the team.
    ---
    All in all you could say Schumacher and Vettel are the opposite personalities of Alonso - they never felt the need to praise themselves and pump up their reputation by talking about how great they were/are! (something Alonso does on a regular basis)

    Ferrari wants team players first.
    Ricciardo seems a non abrasive, easy going personality and comes with stacks of speed to go with it. I don't see him being a bad option.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    Wasn't Kimi slower than Massa in qualifying all three seasons?

    Lets be realistic here, Fernando doesn't get enough praise for just how fast he is.
    Didn't Massa often outqualify Alonso but had to give it all away at the first corner?????
    That scenario may not have happened with Arrivabene.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Why Ferrari let Alonso go?

    Alonso has labeled his time with Ferrari: "My time with Ferrari was a very very sad time, I probably should have left earlier". Do you think Ferrari wants to have a number one driver with that attitude towards the team?

    Try harder making fake quotes.


    "I only have good memories of my time with Ferrari," Fernando told CNN's Amanda Davies. "We didn't win the championship, but looking at the trophies collected over those five years, I feel very proud."

    "I probably should have left earlier, because in the last year the car was not competitive at all and the team was getting more and more sad. So probably, one or two years less would have been the best thing, but we tried our best and fought until the end, at every single race."
    http://www.f1i.com/news/21641-i-stay...ys-alonso.html

  20. #110
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    How is this an Alonso conversation?

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    I'm a big fan of Dan and always wanted him in red. Somehow his jovial personality, Italian roots, not to forget he's one of the fastest drivers on the track, made him look tailor made for the seat.
    I have read a few posts which have helped me to have a rethink.
    Since Alesi and Berger Ferrari have always had a no1 and no2 driver. The problem is getting an experienced driver to accept the no2 role is nigh impossible.
    It rules out Dan, Sergio, Carlos et al. So we are left with an inexperienced young driver who would be happy to spend his first years as a no2 while he learns and hones his craft.
    Now I also have a problem with that because I think it's unfair to put a young driver in the lion's den (Italian media) where he will be constantly criticized and blamed for any mistake he may get involved in.

    Just to throw the cat among the pigeons I believe Max went to RB far too early and needed to drive for a mid field team for a little longer...............I would include Hamilton here.
    I am so glad Charles is getting that opportunity and would like to see him get 2 years in midfield .
    So maybe if Kimi is willing we should keep him for another year!!!!
    It's just my opinion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    I'm a big fan of Dan and always wanted him in red. Somehow his jovial personality, Italian roots, not to forget he's one of the fastest drivers on the track, made him look tailor made for the seat.
    I have read a few posts which have helped me to have a rethink.
    Since Alesi and Berger Ferrari have always had a no1 and no2 driver. The problem is getting an experienced driver to accept the no2 role is nigh impossible.
    It rules out Dan, Sergio, Carlos et al. So we are left with an inexperienced young driver who would be happy to spend his first years as a no2 while he learns and hones his craft.
    Now I also have a problem with that because I think it's unfair to put a young driver in the lion's den (Italian media) where he will be constantly criticized and blamed for any mistake he may get involved in.

    Just to throw the cat among the pigeons I believe Max went to RB far too early and needed to drive for a mid field team for a little longer...............I would include Hamilton here.
    I am so glad Charles is getting that opportunity and would like to see him get 2 years in midfield .
    So maybe if Kimi is willing we should keep him for another year!!!!
    It's just my opinion.
    racingbradley, you know we'd love to have Felipe back but I'm glad he's out of it, he stood up to both Michael, Kimi and Fernando and should not be overly criticised for his efforts. Once a Massabot, always a Massabot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Same reason no top team wants him at the moment, despite his huge talent
    It could have something to do with $$, how much more he demands than the other drivers. Remember Briatore has the last say in where Alonso goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    It could have something to do with $$, how much more he demands than the other drivers. Remember Briatore has the last say in where Alonso goes.
    It's not the money, we all know what it is, well most of us do. Furthermore Alonso said he would drive the Mercedes for free, but its not him next to Hamilton is he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Your reply does not change the fact that Alonso has been an egomaniac problem during his entire career to every team he has represented. This is widely known in the paddock, I remember Horner always saying about Alonso to Red Bull, "Alonso is quick, but he comes with a bagage". Just check Alonsos comments during his McLaren time, during testing "I feel like I am the fastest guy out there, now I just need an enginge" and after the last race: "No other driver would have even made it back to the pits" (speaking of his punctured Mclaren vehicle). The list goes on and on and on. Alonso is full of himself and it has hurt his F1 career badly. Karma.

    I was very much into the details of Alonsos departure, and I can say for sure if Alonso wanted to leave Ferrari, Ferrari wanted to get rid of Alonso just as badly or more. It was not like Ferrari was go to go happy with Alonso and Alonso decided to bolt, there was a long internal disturbance that lead to Ferrari wanting Alonso gone no matter what.

    With the outdrawn and dirty ending of Fernandos Ferrari stint, I cant ever imagine Ferrari considering taking him back - although I would suspect Alonso might behave better now after being a bottom feeder for almost 4 years. The desperation of getting back to the top would perhaps be enough for him to turn down his ego a bit and not become a burden to the team.
    ---
    All in all you could say Schumacher and Vettel are the opposite personalities of Alonso - they never felt the need to praise themselves and pump up their reputation by talking about how great they were/are! (something Alonso does on a regular basis)

    Ferrari wants team players first.
    Alonso never openly said anything negative or remotely egomaniacal when he drove for Ferrari until his birthday in 2013, when he was fed up and publicly said he wanted a faster car. He was with the team 3.5 seasons at that point, narrowly missed the championship twice, and in his defense, he was the team's second best asset behind the shield on the car. I'm not disputing that he wanted to leave, but saying Ferrari didn't want to retain him is rubbish, because Luca was more than happy to openly praise him and say that he is the best driver in the world. If they wanted him gone, why would the president behave that way? It wasn't until the following year when Mattiacci was asked how he will keep Fernando Alonso happy with a literal dumpster fire of a car. His apathetic response was one of the final nails in the coffin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    It's not the money, we all know what it is, well most of us do. Furthermore Alonso said he would drive the Mercedes for free, but its not him next to Hamilton is he?
    All except me! What is it? Please let me in on the reason. Also could Lewis have something to do with Alonso never to be his Merc team mate? Do you recognize the name Briatore the billionaire mgr. of Alonso? It's more a father son relationship. Ferrari welcomed Seb from RB where a pole and a good start was a lock on victory to the point where the race was thought of as won in advance. If it was "The RB Car" Ferrari should have known better. In Alonso's case it was the car that didn't work out, not his driving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    All except me! What is it? Please let me in on the reason. Also could Lewis have something to do with Alonso never to be his Merc team mate? Do you recognize the name Briatore the billionaire mgr. of Alonso? It's more a father son relationship. Ferrari welcomed Seb from RB where a pole and a good start was a lock on victory to the point where the race was thought of as won in advance. If it was "The RB Car" Ferrari should have known better. In Alonso's case it was the car that didn't work out, not his driving.
    It was never bout the skills but about the way he behaved. He was toxic and not just in Ferrari.

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  28. #118
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    [QUOTE= Luca was more than happy to openly praise him and say that he is the best driver in the world. If they wanted him gone, why would the president behave that way? It wasn't until the following year when Mattiacci was asked how he will keep Fernando Alonso happy with a literal dumpster fire of a car. His apathetic response was one of the final nails in the coffin.[/QUOTE]

    Luca never liked to admit he had made a mistake!
    While Mattiacci may have been trying to keep Alonso happy Arrivebene didn't feel the same.
    His famous words when asked that question were "I am not here to make Alonso happy"
    Evidently he had weighed up the situation with his drivers.


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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    Luca never liked to admit he had made a mistake!
    While Mattiacci may have been trying to keep Alonso happy Arrivebene didn't feel the same.
    His famous words when asked that question were "I am not here to make Alonso happy"
    Evidently he had weighed up the situation with his drivers.
    It was Marco Mattiacci. Maurizio didn't come on board until 2015.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    All except me! What is it? Please let me in on the reason. Also could Lewis have something to do with Alonso never to be his Merc team mate? Do you recognize the name Briatore the billionaire mgr. of Alonso? It's more a father son relationship. Ferrari welcomed Seb from RB where a pole and a good start was a lock on victory to the point where the race was thought of as won in advance. If it was "The RB Car" Ferrari should have known better. In Alonso's case it was the car that didn't work out, not his driving.
    It's Fred's big fat mouth and politics that deprives us of seeing one of the biggest talents in a top 3 car. He burned all his bridges, except maybe Renault, and is continuing to do so(ex:Honda). No top team will be hiring him and I dont blame them

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