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Thread: F1 Commission votes through aero changes to help overtaking in 2019

  1. #1
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    F1 Commission votes through aero changes to help overtaking in 2019

    Changes to Aero rules for 2019

    -Simplified front wing, with a larger span, and low outwash potential
    -Simplified front brake duct with no winglets
    -Wider and deeper rear wing

    More details here :

    http://www.f1i.com/news/302491-f1-co...king-2019.html
    https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/05...nges-for-2019/

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    If Ferrari voted against this, what are the chances of them Vetoing the whole thing? Probably none... sad.

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    Simplified front brakes is the lesser of all evils in terms of keeping F1 technology relevant. Drivers who dare to break later should have an advantage. But as I said before, I don't understand all this fuss about overtakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    Simplified front brakes is the lesser of all evils in terms of keeping F1 technology relevant. Drivers who dare to break later should have an advantage. But as I said before, I don't understand all this fuss about overtakes.
    It's only the brake duct winglets that are simplified, it affects car aero, not the brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvera View Post
    It's only the brake duct winglets that are simplified, it affects car aero, not the brakes.
    Yes I know. What I meant was that my idea with completely simplified breaks would be the lesser evil of everything they've come up with. Then they wouldn't need to touch the front and rear wings at all.

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    If the front wing is getting a larger span, surely it will become even more vulnerable to damage and also cause more punctures. Or am I missing something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    If the front wing is getting a larger span, surely it will become even more vulnerable to damage and also cause more punctures. Or am I missing something?
    Most likely. That's why all these changes make very little sense when they could have come up with one big change to achieve the same goal, make it harder to break accurately. The only sense regarding the front wing they are making is that they probably mean to get rid of all the levels on it because the aero tests have shown that's what's causing huge turbulence. But in order to give back a little downforce they will increase the span. The net should still be less turbulence. But as you say, there will be more damaged front wings and more punctures. That's FIA and Libery for you.

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    I think it's a bit more in depth than just making it harder to break, increasing braking distances would certainly help but it would need to be done along with other changes to make cars able to follow each other and set up moves going into braking zones. No point in making it harder to brake if you can't stay close enough to make a move, I don't think overtaking is all that bad at the moment and is probably more about the tracks than cars.
    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I think it's a bit more in depth than just making it harder to break, increasing braking distances would certainly help but it would need to be done along with other changes to make cars able to follow each other and set up moves going into braking zones. No point in making it harder to brake if you can't stay close enough to make a move, I don't think overtaking is all that bad at the moment and is probably more about the tracks than cars.
    The problem, if there is any today (which I don't think), isn't about cars not being able to follow each other on a straight. That's rather easy as we could see in Baku, especially at the restarts. The trailing driver gets a tow. The problem is for a faster car to get closer to a slower one in fast sweeping corners. That's tough and the net from that is that the faster car doesn't get close enough out of the corner and into the next straight. If the straight is as long as in Baku, then it's fine. If it's like in Bahrain, well, you saw how Bottas struggled to make a move on Seb at the end. If they do away with some of the turbulence and "dirty air" it's going to be easier in the corners but it will also dumb down the evolution made in Formula 1. Because they will essentially dumb down the aero.

    Now, if the break pedals (especially for the front breaks) would be less accurate, let's call it more clunky, then both the faster trailing car and the slower defending car would have an equal opportunity prior to the next corner after a straight. The driver who would break latest and/or being more gentle on the pedal would earn an advantage. This would also keep Formula 1 from being dumbed down, except for the breaks, but only that. It's all about if the FIA and Liberty care about the evolution made. Apparently not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    The problem, if there is any today (which I don't think), isn't about cars not being able to follow each other on a straight. That's rather easy as we could see in Baku, especially at the restarts. The trailing driver gets a tow. The problem is for a faster car to get closer to a slower one in fast sweeping corners. That's tough and the net from that is that the faster car doesn't get close enough out of the corner and into the next straight. If the straight is as long as in Baku, then it's fine. If it's like in Bahrain, well, you saw how Bottas struggled to make a move on Seb at the end. If they do away with some of the turbulence and "dirty air" it's going to be easier in the corners but it will also dumb down the evolution made in Formula 1. Because they will essentially dumb down the aero.

    Now, if the break pedals (especially for the front breaks) would be less accurate, let's call it more clunky, then both the faster trailing car and the slower defending car would have an equal opportunity prior to the next corner after a straight. The driver who would break latest and/or being more gentle on the pedal would earn an advantage. This would also keep Formula 1 from being dumbed down, except for the breaks, but only that. It's all about if the FIA and Liberty care about the evolution made. Apparently not.

    Dumb down the aero and replace the CCB's with steel brakes (slotted/cross drilled/or both. Note: CCB's on production cars are a marketing ploy; no one gets their brake's above 1000 degrees F even in heavy stop-and-go traffic UNLESS you're on a track and you're racing for time or actually racing which you might as well change your tyres to Trofeo R's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Dumb down the aero and replace the CCB's with steel brakes (slotted/cross drilled/or both. Note: CCB's on production cars are a marketing ploy; no one gets their brake's above 1000 degrees F even in heavy stop-and-go traffic UNLESS you're on a track and you're racing for time or actually racing which you might as well change your tyres to Trofeo R's.
    Steel brakes is one way to go. Let's call it the physical approach. It can also be done electronically. Let's call that one the technical approach.

    If they do away with the aero evolution made over the years they are basicly saying that the likes of Adrian Newey have destroyed F1. I don't know if that's a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post

    If they do away with the aero evolution made over the years they are basicly saying that the likes of Adrian Newey have destroyed F1. I don't know if that's a good idea.

    Sauber first started it with Albert, a super computer of CFD in the mid 90's (then everyone started using supercomputers in aero) then in the mid 2000's Albert 2 came along when it was BMW-Sauber. Adrian Newey is king when it comes to aerodynamics and I have a high respect for the man (going to buy his book) but they also invented DRS (increase in 12 mph) which IMO is "fake" overtaking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Sauber first started it with Albert, a super computer of CFD in the mid 90's (then everyone started using supercomputers in aero) then in the mid 2000's Albert 2 came along when it was BMW-Sauber. Adrian Newey is king when it comes to aerodynamics and I have a high respect for the man (going to buy his book) but they also invented DRS (increase in 12 mph) which IMO is "fake" overtaking.
    Reagrding the DRS. Aerodynamic departments at the teams may have invented the system (the current solution) itself but it was the FIA who first ordered and mandated it. Because the saw how it worked in Champ Car and they thought it would be a good idea for F1. Obviously it's horrible and "fake".

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    The reason Ferrari voted in favour of 2019 Aero rules

    The Formula 1 commission recently passed a last-minute vote on 2019 Aerodynamic rules. Several questions were raised about how they managed to do it since it looked like many teams were opposed to aero changes at this stage.

    The secret was recently revealed by Motorsport Italy who confirmed that Ferrari and Mercedes voted in favour of the proposal in hopes that the FIA will take care of their concerns in the 2021 new engine rules.

    F1 commission pushed in a few aerodynamic changes to encourage overtaking and wheel to wheel racing in its 2019 rules update package and the FIA’s World Council ratified the decisions last week.

    According to the first reports, only the Mercedes powered team were in favour of the rule while the rest of the grid was opposed to it. So it was surprising to see the rule pass through four yes votes when Mercedes had only three.

    But the reality turned out to be different. The dissenters were only four – Red Bull, Renault, McLaren and Toro Rosso. Ferrari and its customer teams voted for the proposal.

    Ferrari group voting in the same lines as Mercedes is not a surprise as both of them vote similarly on almost all issues.

    Motorsport believes the duo decided to bow down to the FIA because the 2019 rules are not a big issue when compared to the bigger battle that is yet to come, the 2021 engine rules. Both have invested heavily in the current formula and are hell-bent on maintaining the status quo of engine regulations. And they need the FIA on their side.

    So bowing down to changes in 2019 would be a small price to pay if it gives them a better chance at retaining most of the current formula for the next round of technical regulations.

    https://grandpx.news/news/the-reason...19-aero-rules/
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

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    Simplified Aero is win for the likes of Newey.... with less tools only the genius shine.


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    Go Ferrari, beat them all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberracus View Post
    Simplified Aero is win for the likes of Newey.... with less tools only the genius shine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I don't think so

    Newey shine when complex aero design are required, due to regulation attempt to reduce downforce.

    For example, when diffuser was downsize to reduce downforce, it became more important to make efficient diffuser as they are less effective.
    This is where Newey genius came in, where he was able to create a sealing effect of the diffuser using exhaust gas.

    In the past, you don't need such complex design as the diffuser are larger and already generate plenty of downforce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs316 View Post
    The reason Ferrari voted in favour of 2019 Aero rules

    The Formula 1 commission recently passed a last-minute vote on 2019 Aerodynamic rules. Several questions were raised about how they managed to do it since it looked like many teams were opposed to aero changes at this stage.

    The secret was recently revealed by Motorsport Italy who confirmed that Ferrari and Mercedes voted in favour of the proposal in hopes that the FIA will take care of their concerns in the 2021 new engine rules.

    F1 commission pushed in a few aerodynamic changes to encourage overtaking and wheel to wheel racing in its 2019 rules update package and the FIA’s World Council ratified the decisions last week.

    According to the first reports, only the Mercedes powered team were in favour of the rule while the rest of the grid was opposed to it. So it was surprising to see the rule pass through four yes votes when Mercedes had only three.

    But the reality turned out to be different. The dissenters were only four – Red Bull, Renault, McLaren and Toro Rosso. Ferrari and its customer teams voted for the proposal.

    Ferrari group voting in the same lines as Mercedes is not a surprise as both of them vote similarly on almost all issues.

    Motorsport believes the duo decided to bow down to the FIA because the 2019 rules are not a big issue when compared to the bigger battle that is yet to come, the 2021 engine rules. Both have invested heavily in the current formula and are hell-bent on maintaining the status quo of engine regulations. And they need the FIA on their side.

    So bowing down to changes in 2019 would be a small price to pay if it gives them a better chance at retaining most of the current formula for the next round of technical regulations.

    https://grandpx.news/news/the-reason...19-aero-rules/
    Big slap for RB. They feel kings in deciding the rules.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    I don't think so

    Newey shine when complex aero design are required, due to regulation attempt to reduce downforce.
    I agree, the more complex (vortices--> front wing and rear diffuser), the more his design shines given said package. They might not have the best engine but they make up for it in aero and chassis.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberracus View Post
    Simplified Aero is win for the likes of Newey.... with less tools only the genius shine.


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    Quite the contrary actually; where Andrian Newey shine is complicated solutions vs efficiency.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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