View Poll Results: Charles Leclerc score points in 3/4 races . Can he earn a Ferrrari seat in 2019?

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  • Definitely yes

    48 44.86%
  • Maybe yes

    35 32.71%
  • Maybe no

    11 10.28%
  • Definitely no

    13 12.15%
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Thread: Charles Leclerc chances for Ferrari

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Someone started a petition to get Kimi to stay for another year
    https://www.change.org/p/maurizio-ar...r-another-year
    13k in less than a day, not bad...

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio View Post
    I've hardly posted on this forum, but I'd like to give my ten cent's worth on this issue of whether or not Leclerc should be given a 2019 Ferrari seat:

    Some context about me as a tifoso: I've supported Ferrari since 1977. My love is for the team first and foremost - not individual drivers. I have liked drivers along the way when they drove for Ferrari, such as Villeneuve, Scheckter, Pironi, Mansell and, of course, the great and incomparable Schumi (that was love I had!). I have also disliked or been indifferent to others of our drivers, including Arnoux, Prost, Berger and Barrichello. But for me it's all about the Scuderia that I love - that is the context of my opinion on this and everything else to do with Ferrari.

    Raikkonen: Love the guy as a character and as a persona - one of a kind. His brilliant winning of the 2007 WDC was one of my all-time favourite and most exhilarating sporting events. However, Kimi has been past his prime for many years now. And, no, I don't think he's been that 'amazing' this year - not with the frankly terrific car that he has. His Monza pole was stunning and a terrific surprise. But I knew he wouldn't be able to sustain the pace for an entire GP because he never really does...and he didn't. He has outstayed his time at Ferrari - he needs to go. Simple. And I will certainly miss the guy.

    Vettel: I've never warmed up to Sebastian - I find he tries too hard to be cool and witty and I think he has a childish streak in his temperament. He's too often a loose cannon. However, you don't become a 4x World Champion in F1 without being very, very good. That's obvious. But, with all due respect, the guy has serious flaws as a driver. He has mostly himself to blame for not being comfortably ahead of Hamilton this year. He simply makes too many errors. He most certainly is no Schumacher - not even close. Worst of all, as much as I intensely dislike Lewis Hamilton, there is no doubt in my mind that Hamilton has been the mostly superior driver this year. The WDC was Hamilton's to lose last year, and he didn't. The WDC is Vettel's to lose this year - and he's well on his way to doing so.

    Leclerc: I don't care what others might say, this kid has talent. He has shown himself to be fast and that's not just against a very mediocre teammate such as Ericsson. He has often made a mostly sub-par Sauber look a lot better than it should and outshone drivers in better cars, i.e. Haas and Renault. Is he a Schumi or a Senna? I'm not sure - possibly not. But does it matter even if he's not? No, it does not. What Leclerc offers is youth, hunger and a whole lot to prove. And I for one think that is a terrific combo for Ferrari.

    Is it a risk for Ferrari to take on Leclerc in just his sophomore year? Of course it is. Are there any guarantees he will be great or even good in a Ferrari next year? Of course not. We just don't know. But that is what I like about Kimi leaving and Charles replacing him - it's an unknown and it has a strong element of risk-taking. That is the Ferrari I want to be able to support - a team that is bold and takes risks.

    I am hugely tired of the conservative, boring, risk-averse Ferrari that emerged in the aftermath of the brilliant, thrilling Schumi-Brawn-Todt era. An era at Ferrari, by the way, that was immersed in risk-taking, flair and boldness. Lest we forget that there was a time when no one could beat Ferrari at strategy. And then the team sank into dull, plodding predictability and 'playing it safe'. Yeah, we all know how well that went since 2009. And then, suddenly, Ferrari took huge risks with its design and engine in 2017 and we were real contenders again. And the team took even more risks in 2018 (when everyone said the Scuderia was totally mad to do so and had even written us off!) and look at what contenders we've been thus far!

    Keeping Kimi is playing it safe, being boring, being dull. Taking on Charles is taking risks, being bold, being daring. I'm all for the latter - even if it doesn't work out. At least we tried something new.

    Goodbye, Kimi - it was good while it lasted. Welcome, Charles - we hope you'll be a star.
    very good posting ... really ... congrats ... couldn't agree more
    "If I was driving for Red Bull [from 2008] probably I would have more championships, but because they were dominating between 2010 and 2014 probably I would never have driven for Ferrari. I am very happy and very proud to drive for Ferrari, all my time there.

  3. #363
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    Apparently Elkann jumped the gun and posted his congrats to Leclerc on Facebook before quickly deleting the post.

    We need the fresh blood in the Red cars, kid is fast but not sure if he has killer instinct (Vertsappen style defense / fighter for overtake) just yet. He seems a tad too soft and emotional.

    Welcome to Ferrari Charles and thank you Kimi.

  4. #364
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    When 18 out of 20 drivers on the grid want to drive your car and you pick the unproven rookie 15th in the WDC, it's not bold, it's stupid. He may be good, he may not and that's a risk a midfield team should take, not Ferrari. You had Ricciardo, almost begging for Ferrari to take him, a great driver and multiple race winner in an inferior car, great experience, italian heritage and that smile. I don't have anything against Charles, I say snap him up when he is proven himself against a better teammate and in certain situations, not to just take him to justify the academy.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    When 18 out of 20 drivers on the grid want to drive your car and you pick the unproven rookie 15th in the WDC, it's not bold, it's stupid. He may be good, he may not and that's a risk a midfield team should take, not Ferrari. You had Ricciardo, almost begging for Ferrari to take him, a great driver and multiple race winner in an inferior car, great experience, italian heritage and that smile. I don't have anything against Charles, I say snap him up when he is proven himself against a better teammate and in certain situations, not to just take him to justify the academy.
    That is true but what if the fact Leclerc had a contract already signed when Sergio was still alive is true as well? DR was not on the market last year, he was just weighing options and making heavy demands (pay-wise). Can't blame the current Ferrari admin for having their hands tied. Vettel is locked, Kimi has been kicked by Sergio in advance and Leclerc has been enrolled before 2018 even started. It's a missed opportunity yes, I guess we have to see how things work out. Vettel is sealed till 2019 if i recall correctly, after that who knows? Maybe Daniel will replace him.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    When 18 out of 20 drivers on the grid want to drive your car and you pick the unproven rookie 15th in the WDC, it's not bold, it's stupid. He may be good, he may not and that's a risk a midfield team should take, not Ferrari. You had Ricciardo, almost begging for Ferrari to take him, a great driver and multiple race winner in an inferior car, great experience, italian heritage and that smile. I don't have anything against Charles, I say snap him up when he is proven himself against a better teammate and in certain situations, not to just take him to justify the academy.
    ... yes let him prove himself... like perez, grosjean, sainz, who have proven themselves on track as being very VERY aggressive when a scarlet Ferrari tries to overtake them ... because they were academy drivers and have not gotten the chance to drive 'the' car.
    Leaving a for now good driver in limbo is counter productive and it looks like boils resentment that overflows on track.

    Belgium and Monza, both Q3 runs of Ferrari were hampered by Sainz who squeezed ahead of Vettel on both second runs...
    if that wasn't done on purpose.... I don't know.

    Welcome on board Leclerc! I say.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    That is true but what if the fact Leclerc had a contract already signed when Sergio was still alive is true as well? DR was not on the market last year, he was just weighing options and making heavy demands (pay-wise). Can't blame the current Ferrari admin for having their hands tied. Vettel is locked, Kimi has been kicked by Sergio in advance and Leclerc has been enrolled before 2018 even started. It's a missed opportunity yes, I guess we have to see how things work out. Vettel is sealed till 2019 if i recall correctly, after that who knows? Maybe Daniel will replace him.
    Vettel is signed until 2020

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    ... yes let him prove himself... like perez, grosjean, sainz, who have proven themselves on track as being very VERY aggressive when a scarlet Ferrari tries to overtake them ... because they were academy drivers and have not gotten the chance to drive 'the' car.
    Leaving a for now good driver in limbo is counter productive and it looks like boils resentment that overflows on track.

    Belgium and Monza, both Q3 runs of Ferrari were hampered by Sainz who squeezed ahead of Vettel on both second runs...
    if that wasn't done on purpose.... I don't know.

    Welcome on board Leclerc! I say.
    What does Sainz have to do with Ferrari?

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    That is true but what if the fact Leclerc had a contract already signed when Sergio was still alive is true as well? DR was not on the market last year, he was just weighing options and making heavy demands (pay-wise). Can't blame the current Ferrari admin for having their hands tied. Vettel is locked, Kimi has been kicked by Sergio in advance and Leclerc has been enrolled before 2018 even started. It's a missed opportunity yes, I guess we have to see how things work out. Vettel is sealed till 2019 if i recall correctly, after that who knows? Maybe Daniel will replace him.
    Because its safer. What do you think would happen if Ricciardo starts beating Vettel. Look how upset Vettel got in Monza when Raikkonen didn't let him through at the start, and Ricciardo is perfectly capable of beating Vettel over the course of the season.

    If we had someone like Ross Brawn then I'd say sure bring Ricciardo at Maranello. But I don't current Ferrari management can handle Vettel-Ricciardo lineup.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    What does Sainz have to do with Ferrari?
    my bad.... I was so convinced he was a Ferrari academy driver... got that totally wrong...
    but my point of putting Ferrari academy drivers in junior teams and then letting them languish there is counter productive, and as Leclerc HAS proven he can be a fast driver for starters, why not bring him in and give him a shot at an AMAZING career.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    my bad.... I was so convinced he was a Ferrari academy driver... got that totally wrong...
    but my point of putting Ferrari academy drivers in junior teams and then letting them languish there is counter productive, and as Leclerc HAS proven he can be a fast driver for starters, why not bring him in and give him a shot at an AMAZING career.
    Let him have an amazing career and then we bring him in.

  12. #372
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    The reason this switch feels akward and questionable is because of Kimi's form and driving this season. Had this discussion happened last season (beaten by Bottas by 100 points) or two years ago (worst of the six best) then it would have been a no-brainer for basicly everyone but now it feels strange. I mean, out of the 11 races he has finished this season he's been on the podium 9 times, and it's not just podiums, as in scrapping along for 3rd place, because there are three 2nd places as well in these results. The three DNF:s have been out of his control. He might have been on podium in Bahrain had he not been released erroneously. But let's say he would have been 4th, that's 12 points. Barcelona? Let's say 5th behind Seb, that's 10 points. Spa, without the fuel error during quali? Most likely 2nd behind Seb or at least 3rd behind Lewis. That's 15 points. Basicly in a worst-case scenario he has dropped 37 points and adding it to his points tally would bring it to 201 points now, 25 behind Seb. He hasn't made a costly driving error in the races this year.

    How would the discussion go now if that was the case? Still out the door? I haven't placed him above Lewis or Seb in any of these three races so the gap to them would still be same. Lewis 256, Seb 226, Kimi 201. He would just have removed those points from drivers behind in the standings. The fact is, he wouldn't have been out of the WDC race and having in mind he went out of PU sequence because of Barcelona he might have scored higher having the same power as Seb during the summer, maybe even a win. This is what it boils down to.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Let him have an amazing career and then we bring him in.
    Why conservative? I say this is the right time to blood him in, especially when the car is good, it will show his true potential
    “I prefer to beat them on Sunday” -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

    "Giornata fantastica !!"- Andrea Stella, European GP 2012


  14. #374
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    If Clerc implodes in first few races what will Ferrari do? Kvyat???

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    Why conservative? I say this is the right time to blood him in, especially when the car is good, it will show his true potential
    Ask yourself this my friend. Haas had him last year as a test driver, they knew what he can do. They had the option of promoting him this year, they opted for Magnussen and Grosjean. Charles was sent to Sauber. Reports have it that Ferrari's new management tried to send him for next year to Haas as well, Gene said no again. They had him in their backyard and know what he can do, why would they say no (twice)?

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by F430 View Post
    If Clerc implodes in first few races what will Ferrari do? Kvyat???
    Give him time it's going to take him a few races to adapt but by the end of the season I'm sure he will be closer to Seb than Kimi was

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    The reason this switch feels akward and questionable is because of Kimi's form and driving this season. Had this discussion happened last season (beaten by Bottas by 100 points) or two years ago (worst of the six best) then it would have been a no-brainer for basicly everyone but now it feels strange. I mean, out of the 11 races he has finished this season he's been on the podium 9 times, and it's not just podiums, as in scrapping along for 3rd place, because there are three 2nd places as well in these results. The three DNF:s have been out of his control. He might have been on podium in Bahrain had he not been released erroneously. But let's say he would have been 4th, that's 12 points. Barcelona? Let's say 5th behind Seb, that's 10 points. Spa, without the fuel error during quali? Most likely 2nd behind Seb or at least 3rd behind Lewis. That's 15 points. Basicly in a worst-case scenario he has dropped 37 points and adding it to his points tally would bring it to 201 points now, 25 behind Seb. He hasn't made a costly driving error in the races this year.

    How would the discussion go now if that was the case? Still out the door? I haven't placed him above Lewis or Seb in any of these three races so the gap to them would still be same. Lewis 256, Seb 226, Kimi 201. He would just have removed those points from drivers behind in the standings. The fact is, he wouldn't have been out of the WDC race and having in mind he went out of PU sequence because of Barcelona he might have scored higher having the same power as Seb during the summer, maybe even a win. This is what it boils down to.
    This is a well-considered and well-argued post regarding Kimi this year. It certainly provokes thought on this issue.

    However, and with all due respect, there are many 'if's in this rationale and, as they say, with if you can put Paris in a bottle.

    Even if he were, for argument's sake, on 201 points, who here would really, objectively rather bet on Raikkonen than on Vettel for the remaining races - even if all things were equal between them? Not many of us, I'm sure. And, furthermore, would him being closer to Vettel in points make any difference as to whether or not the time has come for him to leave Ferrari? Think about that. Frankly, no it would not make a discernible, objective difference. Nor should it.

    Instead, what should be considered is this: can it be objectively argued that Raikkonen is the absolute best option available to Ferrari to partner Vettel going forward? No, it cannot. He has simply faded too many times in too many races to give any objective tifoso the feeling that he is (1) anywhere as good and consistently fast over a race distance as he once was and (2) a driver that fills one with confidence.

    That is the candid, even sad reality. I would have loved nothing more than Kimi to still be as fast as he once was and be really giving Sebastian and Lewis a run for their money. What a treat that would have been! But it's not the case.

    Kimi is simply not as fast as he used to be and he does not inspire ultimate confidence, even as a rear gunner. He is not the best we can do.

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Ask yourself this my friend. Haas had him last year as a test driver, they knew what he can do. They had the option of promoting him this year, they opted for Magnussen and Grosjean. Charles was sent to Sauber. Reports have it that Ferrari's new management tried to send him for next year to Haas as well, Gene said no again. They had him in their backyard and know what he can do, why would they say no (twice)?
    I was thinking that yesterday. I cannot say why Haas did not take Leclerc, but somehow it is weird if Ferrari takes driver that Haas does not want, but we really don`t know why Haas does not want him, there could many other reasons that we don`t know.

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    I was thinking that yesterday. I cannot say why Haas did not take Leclerc, but somehow it is weird if Ferrari takes driver that Haas does not want, but we really don`t know why Haas does not want him, there could many other reasons that we don`t know.
    Maybe Perez signed a contract with Haas which will ensure Ocon's stay at Force India.

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Maybe Perez signed a contract with Haas which will ensure Ocon's stay at Force India.

    Who told you you can leave the kitchen, honey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Give him time it's going to take him a few races to adapt but by the end of the season I'm sure he will be closer to Seb than Kimi was
    Leclerc will be where #2 driver is supposed to be.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

  22. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by zike View Post
    Who told you you can leave the kitchen, honey?
    Maybe we can refrain ourselves from personal attacks, my God I know I have. There are two guys on this forum I dislike and they probably don't even know it, because it's not about them or me, it's about Ferrari.

  23. #383
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    I think it's important to keep in mind that the grid is getting much younger. The old guard is dwindling with Button, Massa, Alonso, and now Raikkonen possibly leaving the sport. The youngest of them are Hamilton and Vettel, and they both have around four or five years left, possibly less if they want to call it quits early.
    Red Bull has invested in Verstappen and Gasly, Mercedes in Ocon, Ferrari in Leclerc, and McLaren in Norris. When Vettel and Hamilton leave, and possibly even before, I believe we will see Verstappen, Ocon, Leclerc, Gasly, and Norris take their places as the majority of the best drivers in Formula 1. Bottas is just a lapdog and Ricciardo is another Hulkenberg. Both always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

    I get that many like Kimi and his no-nonsense approach, but as long as we keep clinging to the past, we will not be able to succeed in the future. Sergio Marchionne took the team this far before his death, lets see what his swan song of signing Leclerc yields.

    Also, I was very disappointed when Massa wasn't resigned and Alonso jumped ship, but I wasn't dumb enough to think a petition would change anything.

  24. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    I think it's important to keep in mind that the grid is getting much younger. The old guard is dwindling with Button, Massa, Alonso, and now Raikkonen possibly leaving the sport. The youngest of them are Hamilton and Vettel, and they both have around four or five years left, possibly less if they want to call it quits early.
    Red Bull has invested in Verstappen and Gasly, Mercedes in Ocon, Ferrari in Leclerc, and McLaren in Norris. When Vettel and Hamilton leave, and possibly even before, I believe we will see Verstappen, Ocon, Leclerc, Gasly, and Norris take their places as the majority of the best drivers in Formula 1. Bottas is just a lapdog and Ricciardo is another Hulkenberg. Both always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

    I get that many like Kimi and his no-nonsense approach, but as long as we keep clinging to the past, we will not be able to succeed in the future. Sergio Marchionne took the team this far before his death, lets see what his swan song of signing Leclerc yields.

    Also, I was very disappointed when Massa wasn't resigned and Alonso jumped ship, but I wasn't dumb enough to think a petition would change anything.
    Don't forget George Russell.

  25. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    I was thinking that yesterday. I cannot say why Haas did not take Leclerc, but somehow it is weird if Ferrari takes driver that Haas does not want, but we really don`t know why Haas does not want him, there could many other reasons that we don`t know.
    If I had to guess, it's probably because Haas wants to have it's identity with its own drivers and not be perceived as doing Ferrari's bidding. If they take Leclerc, they will also have to relinquish him whenever Ferrari wants. I think the mentality is that Hass wants two drivers they can build their team around. The real question is why didn't they snatch Ricciardo in place of Grosjean?

  26. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio View Post
    This is a well-considered and well-argued post regarding Kimi this year. It certainly provokes thought on this issue.

    However, and with all due respect, there are many 'if's in this rationale and, as they say, with if you can put Paris in a bottle.

    Even if he were, for argument's sake, on 201 points, who here would really, objectively rather bet on Raikkonen than on Vettel for the remaining races - even if all things were equal between them? Not many of us, I'm sure. And, furthermore, would him being closer to Vettel in points make any difference as to whether or not the time has come for him to leave Ferrari? Think about that. Frankly, no it would not make a discernible, objective difference. Nor should it.

    Instead, what should be considered is this: can it be objectively argued that Raikkonen is the absolute best option available to Ferrari to partner Vettel going forward? No, it cannot. He has simply faded too many times in too many races to give any objective tifoso the feeling that he is (1) anywhere as good and consistently fast over a race distance as he once was and (2) a driver that fills one with confidence.

    That is the candid, even sad reality. I would have loved nothing more than Kimi to still be as fast as he once was and be really giving Sebastian and Lewis a run for their money. What a treat that would have been! But it's not the case.

    Kimi is simply not as fast as he used to be and he does not inspire ultimate confidence, even as a rear gunner. He is not the best we can do.
    In all honesty, this switch is one big "IF". It feels like change for the sake of change. Much like today's society in general.

    Off the top of my head I remember when Nelson Piquet was 3rd in the standings in 1983 for Brabham 14 points behind Prost with three races to go. 14 points is roughly 39-40 points in today's scoring system. Piquet won two of the last three while Prost DNF twice and one podium. I just watched that entire season recently. When Prost went out at the last race, Piquet slowed down to score at least 3rd letting his team mate Patrese win, but Piquet did it from the lead. What I mean is anything can happen. But you need some luck, or rather not be unlucky, to hang in there to the end. Kimi has been unlucky three times this season.

    I can't answer your question if Kimi is the best option to partner Seb in the future, because I simply don't know and neither do you. All I'm saying is that it's an akward moment to boot him out judging by the actual and factual events this season.

    I don't know if Kimi is as fast or not as in the past. Impossible to judge because F1 has changed a lot since when most feel he was "fast". Question is, will Leclerc be faster next year compared to Kimi this year if the car is just as competitive compared to Merc? My gut-feeling says no. I would hate to see the standings after Monza next year with Seb being close to Lewis and Leclerc down in sixth behing Bottas and both RBR:s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    If I had to guess, it's probably because Haas wants to have it's identity with its own drivers and not be perceived as doing Ferrari's bidding. If they take Leclerc, they will also have to relinquish him whenever Ferrari wants. I think the mentality is that Hass wants two drivers they can build their team around. The real question is why didn't they snatch Ricciardo in place of Grosjean?
    Yeah, I think you are right. But Ricciardo I think did not want to go to Haas, they really don`t have a chance to WDC or WCC, but Renault has a tiny chance, really tiny chance.

  28. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Yeah, I think you are right. But Ricciardo I think did not want to go to Haas, they really don`t have a chance to WDC or WCC, but Renault has a tiny chance, really tiny chance.
    Good point.

    It's fine with Haas, because Ferrari has Sauber, but I would really like to see them invest more in the team so it's competing in the midfield. That will make it an even better proving ground for Ferrari's young drivers.

  29. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Maybe we can refrain ourselves from personal attacks, my God I know I have. There are two guys on this forum I dislike and they probably don't even know it, because it's not about them or me, it's about Ferrari.
    of course, no problem

  30. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Ask yourself this my friend. Haas had him last year as a test driver, they knew what he can do. They had the option of promoting him this year, they opted for Magnussen and Grosjean. Charles was sent to Sauber. Reports have it that Ferrari's new management tried to send him for next year to Haas as well, Gene said no again. They had him in their backyard and know what he can do, why would they say no (twice)?
    There can be various factors which we fans don't know from outside. Not necessary one driver fulfills agendas of two different teams. Alonso being the talent he is, was not signed my Mercedes but Bottas was, don't tell me Bottas is better than Fred. The reason here was different

    Coming to Haas drivers, I really don't know why those two clowns are driving there, if I were happen to be Gunther, I would've had you & me instead of those two driving for them
    “I prefer to beat them on Sunday” -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

    "Giornata fantastica !!"- Andrea Stella, European GP 2012


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