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Thread: French GP Practice and Qualifying thread.

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    Time waits for no man.

    OK with Leclerc in the other Ferrari as long as he is guaranteed equal status and equipment.
    Kimi would not have stayed with Ferrari had he felt he wasn't given equal support and equipment.
    This whole unequal treatment thing in Ferrari is a myth that didn't make sense.

  2. #362
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    this is what Hamster said after quali about our strategy....and i'm a bit confused also as to WHY we went with US in Q2....knowing that the SS would be the more durable tire and we would have to PIT earlier then the Mercs and Red fools.....

    "I'm not really sure why they have gone with that tyre," Hamilton said. "They must be confident. Either they know something we don't or they have made a mistake.

    "We will find out tomorrow."

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Really?? who was avaliable when Ferrari re-signed Kimi?
    DR??? He has buy-out option in his contract.
    Bottas ?? He was given a 1yr extension on contract.
    Carlos Sainz,?? Give him the right tool, I think he will deliver good results.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    this is what Hamster said after quali about our strategy....and i'm a bit confused also as to WHY we went with US in Q2....knowing that the SS would be the more durable tire and we would have to PIT earlier then the Mercs and Red fools.....

    "I'm not really sure why they have gone with that tyre," Hamilton said. "They must be confident. Either they know something we don't or they have made a mistake.

    "We will find out tomorrow."
    I was also shocked we went to the US. But if we went with the same strategy then we cant beat them so maybe thats why we chose the US?

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    this is what Hamster said after quali about our strategy....and i'm a bit confused also as to WHY we went with US in Q2....

    "I'm not really sure why they have gone with that tyre," Hamilton said. "They must be confident. Either they know something we don't or they have made a mistake.

    "We will find out tomorrow."
    If it’s cooler conditions SS is the right tyre.
    On pace wise on both tyres Ferrari were strong in fp2.
    Ferrari struggled in Spain with new tyres
    Taking all those above conditions into play, I think they opted for it. 2nd stint on SS with low fuel is > 2nd stint on US with low fuel in cooler conditions. Example : Q2.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Kimi would not have stayed with Ferrari had he felt he wasn't given equal support and equipment.
    This whole unequal treatment thing in Ferrari is a myth that didn't make sense.
    It wasn't a myth when Michael was there...he was clear-cut #1 but that is b/c he was comprehensively better than all his teammates.

    Ferrari has never, in my life, been a team that cares for the WCC over the WDC. They have always put their chips behind the #1 driver. Teams like Williams and McLaren always claimed the opposite and tended to act as they claimed. RB pays lip service only to the idea, and Merc too I believe.

    When Ferrari won the WCC in 1999 it felt like a consolation prize b/c Michael had a car that year that he could have won the WDC with had Eddie not put him into the wall at Silverstone. When Michael came back at the end of the year it was only to help Ferrari to win that WCC b/c no way in the world he was going to help Eddie win the WDC, which is what Michael had been building the team towards when he joined in 1996.

    I keep comparing this year and Ferrari's driver pairing to 1998 b/c Michael had to battle both McLarens that year essentially by himself. Eddie wasn't good enough to assist him to a WDC...Eddie's results in 1999 were the result of a great car, not Eddie's ability. Ferrari needs a driver like Reubens who can win a race and take points off the title rivals like he did in Germany in 2000. Bottas is like Reubens in 2000.

    Kimi was a very good/almost great driver, once, though he's never been as consistent as you would like to see from the F1 greats...now he is just too slow. Arguing otherwise is being blind to reality now.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Kimi would not have stayed with Ferrari had he felt he wasn't given equal support and equipment.
    This whole unequal treatment thing in Ferrari is a myth that didn't make sense.
    I am not referring to Kimi. I'm OK with Leclerc as long as he is allowed to race and not put in any sort of supporting role because of his youth, lack of experience etc.
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    It wasn't a myth when Michael was there...he was clear-cut #1 but that is b/c he was comprehensively better than all his teammates.

    Ferrari has never, in my life, been a team that cares for the WCC over the WDC. They have always put their chips behind the #1 driver. Teams like Williams and McLaren always claimed the opposite and tended to act as they claimed. RB pays lip service only to the idea, and Merc too I believe.

    When Ferrari won the WCC in 1999 it felt like a consolation prize b/c Michael had a car that year that he could have won the WDC with had Eddie not put him into the wall at Silverstone. When Michael came back at the end of the year it was only to help Ferrari to win that WCC b/c no way in the world he was going to help Eddie win the WDC, which is what Michael had been building the team towards when he joined in 1996.

    I keep comparing this year and Ferrari's driver pairing to 1998 b/c Michael had to battle both McLarens that year essentially by himself. Eddie wasn't good enough to assist him to a WDC...Eddie's results in 1999 were the result of a great car, not Eddie's ability. Ferrari needs a driver like Reubens who can win a race and take points off the title rivals like he did in Germany in 2000. Bottas is like Reubens in 2000.

    Kimi was a very good/almost great driver, once, though he's never been as consistent as you would like to see from the F1 greats...now he is just too slow. Arguing otherwise is being blind to reality now.
    +100000000 mate and could have put it in better words myself

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    It wasn't a myth when Michael was there...he was clear-cut #1 but that is b/c he was comprehensively better than all his teammates.

    Ferrari has never, in my life, been a team that cares for the WCC over the WDC. They have always put their chips behind the #1 driver. Teams like Williams and McLaren always claimed the opposite and tended to act as they claimed. RB pays lip service only to the idea, and Merc too I believe.

    When Ferrari won the WCC in 1999 it felt like a consolation prize b/c Michael had a car that year that he could have won the WDC with had Eddie not put him into the wall at Silverstone. When Michael came back at the end of the year it was only to help Ferrari to win that WCC b/c no way in the world he was going to help Eddie win the WDC, which is what Michael had been building the team towards when he joined in 1996.

    I keep comparing this year and Ferrari's driver pairing to 1998 b/c Michael had to battle both McLarens that year essentially by himself. Eddie wasn't good enough to assist him to a WDC...Eddie's results in 1999 were the result of a great car, not Eddie's ability. Ferrari needs a driver like Reubens who can win a race and take points off the title rivals like he did in Germany in 2000. Bottas is like Reubens in 2000.

    Kimi was a very good/almost great driver, once, though he's never been as consistent as you would like to see from the F1 greats...now he is just too slow. Arguing otherwise is being blind to reality now.
    Well said, plus in the MSC era with Ferrari, along with MSC's phenominal talent (dry and wet) the cars were very dominant....so a #2 could be right behind MSC.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    No further action against Kimi
    nice!
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  11. #371
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    Max is next to Seb,,, max is next to seb
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    It wasn't a myth when Michael was there...he was clear-cut #1 but that is b/c he was comprehensively better than all his teammates.

    Ferrari has never, in my life, been a team that cares for the WCC over the WDC. They have always put their chips behind the #1 driver. Teams like Williams and McLaren always claimed the opposite and tended to act as they claimed. RB pays lip service only to the idea, and Merc too I believe.

    When Ferrari won the WCC in 1999 it felt like a consolation prize b/c Michael had a car that year that he could have won the WDC with had Eddie not put him into the wall at Silverstone. When Michael came back at the end of the year it was only to help Ferrari to win that WCC b/c no way in the world he was going to help Eddie win the WDC, which is what Michael had been building the team towards when he joined in 1996.

    I keep comparing this year and Ferrari's driver pairing to 1998 b/c Michael had to battle both McLarens that year essentially by himself. Eddie wasn't good enough to assist him to a WDC...Eddie's results in 1999 were the result of a great car, not Eddie's ability. Ferrari needs a driver like Reubens who can win a race and take points off the title rivals like he did in Germany in 2000. Bottas is like Reubens in 2000.

    Kimi was a very good/almost great driver, once, though he's never been as consistent as you would like to see from the F1 greats...now he is just too slow. Arguing otherwise is being blind to reality now.
    Michael has no1 in his contract as well as being better, Irvine was not even allowed to test unless MS allowed it

    But that is well gone and in the past and we do not operate in such a way now.
    Forza Ferrari

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Well said, plus in the MSC era with Ferrari, along with MSC's phenominal talent (dry and wet) the cars were very dominant....so a #2 could be right behind MSC.
    Only had a dominant car for 2 seasons really.....
    Forza Ferrari

  14. #374
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    I still think these tyres have a small effect on benefiting mercedes, even if ferrari were caught out on bad setups, losing out in aero development race/suspension etc, RB would be much closer as seen at montreal, max was about 0.2s slower back then and now theoratically 0.8s slower on this circuit and ferrari 0.6s slower.

    so looks like ferrari and rb maintained their gap on these engine power circuits but mercedes found the holy grail here. they shouldn't have been able to leap soooo far ahead

    Mercs customer teams did really awful at quali and since customers and works teams are supposed to have equal engines, mercs aero have to be ultimate on these tyres

    Last edited by mwk360; 23rd June 2018 at 21:47.
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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    I know some of you might not be German National Team fans but I'm hoping Germany's last minute win today pumps Vettel up for tomorrow's race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Only had a dominant car for 2 seasons really.....
    cars, I said as in plural, from 1999 to 2004 where it took both the cars and drivers to win 6 WCC titles straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    cars, I said as in plural, from 1999 to 2004 where it took both the cars and drivers to win 6 WCC titles straight.
    Were not dominant though apart from 2 seasons, you seemed to suggest the cars were always dominant so any no2 would be right behind MS, which was not the case really.
    Forza Ferrari

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Were not dominant though apart from 2 seasons, you seemed to suggest the cars were always dominant so any no2 would be right behind MS, which was not the case really.


    Okay maybe not all 6 years were dominant BUT 5 of those were:

    2000 - Ferrari achieved 63% max attainable pts

    2001 - " " 66% max attainable pts

    2002 - " " 81% max attainable pts

    2003 - " " 62% max attainable pts

    2004 - " " 81% max attainable pts


    That's pretty dominant in my book.

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  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post


    Okay maybe not all 6 years were dominant BUT 5 of those were:

    2000 - Ferrari achieved 63% max attainable pts

    2001 - " " 66% max attainable pts

    2002 - " " 81% max attainable pts

    2003 - " " 62% max attainable pts

    2004 - " " 81% max attainable pts


    That's pretty dominant in my book.
    Yeah so as I said 2 years dominant when any no2 could be behind MS. The rest we needed the talents of MS to win titles so not quite sure what you are laughing about? You forgot 99 as well......Did you watch any of those seasons or just look at wiki?

    Look where Rubens finished in 2000,2001 and 2003 and tell me again we had dominant car all those years....no we had Michael.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yassinou0901 View Post
    only 2 races left with these "special" tyres

  22. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Yeah so as I said 2 years dominant when any no2 could be behind MS. The rest we needed the talents of MS to win titles so not quite sure what you are laughing about? You forgot 99 as well......Did you watch any of those seasons or just look at wiki?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
    yep, I watched them.....never kept stats though. Did you keep stats back then??

    you have your opinion of what dominance is and I have mine. Two dominant cars with 1 dominant driver and a #2 whom Ferrari picked who had talent to drive them: "not just any #2 driver."

  23. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    yep, I watched them.....never kept stats though. Did you keep stats back then??

    you have your opinion of what dominance is and I have mine. Two dominant cars with 1 dominant driver and a #2 whom Ferrari picked who had talent to drive them: "not just any #2 driver."
    MS was dominant not the cars apart from 02 and 04 as shown by the no2 driver not being right behind MS as you claimed....

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  24. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    MS was dominant not the cars apart from 02 and 04 as shown by the no2 driver not being right behind MS as you claimed....

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    The percentages prove otherwise given said years.

  25. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    The percentages prove otherwise given said years.
    No they don't lol break those down into MS points v Rubens points....but clearly you never watched those seasons or you would know MS made the difference in 2000,2001 and 2003. While Rubens was beaten by Mclarens and Williams......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    No they don't lol break those down into MS points v Rubens points....but clearly you never watched those seasons or you would know MS made the difference in 2000,2001 and 2003. While Rubens was beaten by Mclarens and Williams......

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    Of course Rubens was beaten in those years and yes I did watch those races. Still though, 4th place or 3rd place helps doesn't it for the WCC title????

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    Austria 2002 tells it all! "Hey Rubens, relax, your getting paid and you drive for Ferrari!" Now we have Lewis, 75 poles so far !! who is breaking every record in F- Pirelli; formerly F1, But Merc seems to let Bottas have a little fun also. The same goes for RB, Max lets Dan race! WCC counts big time. It's just a little tough when a fan has a favorite driver and different favorite team . So WDC and WCC !!
    Last edited by Brembo; 23rd June 2018 at 23:15.

  28. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Austria 2002 tells it all! "Hey Rubens, relax, your getting paid and you drive for Ferrari!" Now we have Lewis, 75 poles so far !! who is breaking every record in F- Pirelli; formerly F1, But Merc seems to let Bottas have a little fun also.
    Bottas came in 3rd place in 2017 and guess where Bottas stands currently???? 3rd is'nt so bad when you're gunnin for the WCC title. Makes sense when 2 opposing #1's are gunnin for the WDC title.

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    I’ve read some analysis from AMUS,

    1) these tyres really are favouring mercs a lot than other teams like RB & Ferrari. They quickly get into working range & pump a lap after a lap with further improvement.

    2) If it’s only the power, they took the example of their customer teams. No one is into the q3, infact in top10 standings 5 cars are Ferrari powered.

    3) Also amus reported, only Spain & France mercs has front row lock out. Both the drivers looked comfortable, in general one of them used to struggle with softer tyres. But this isn’t the case.

    4) There is a rumour in the paddock that, mercs wantedly pushed its engine upgrade to France. So as to showcase that it’s the engine upgrade that got them to this position not the tyre advantage else there would have been much talk about the tyres again saying it’s favouring mercs team.

    5) Amus also mentioned that it will be interesting to see where’s these mercs quali in Austria when Pirelli bring back original tyres & again compare it with Silverstone.


    All in all, to be precise these new tyres are really favouring mercs not the engine.

  30. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I’ve read some analysis from AMUS,


    2) If it’s only the power, they took the example of their customer teams. No one is into the q3, infact in top10 standings 5 cars are Ferrari powered.


    All in all, to be precise these new tyres are really favouring mercs not the engine.
    Engine alone doesn't allow you to complete the lap, you need a good aero as well. Force India and Williams have crap aero whereas Haas has very good one. Sauber in 8th was due to efforts of Leclerc.

    Mercedes old engine in Canada was already faster than Ferrari's upgraded one as proved by Bottas' laptime. And Niki Lauda confirmed here that this upgrade is worth 2 tenths in qualifying. 4-5 tenths gap to Ferrari is correct.

    Ferrari have solved tyre issue, Vettel said his long run pace on Friday was quite good, despite running old spec engine in less power mode. So tyres have nothing to do with it, Paul Ricard is a power track + new Mercedes aero and engine upgrade increased the gap from 3 tenths to 5 tenths.

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