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Thread: French GP Practice and Qualifying thread.

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    Engine alone doesn't allow you to complete the lap, you need a good aero as well. Force India and Williams have crap aero whereas Haas has very good one. Sauber in 8th was due to efforts of Leclerc.

    Mercedes old engine in Canada was already faster than Ferrari's upgraded one as proved by Bottas' laptime. And Niki Lauda confirmed here that this upgrade is worth 2 tenths in qualifying. 4-5 tenths gap to Ferrari is correct.

    Ferrari have solved tyre issue, Vettel said his long run pace on Friday was quite good, despite running old spec engine in less power mode. So tyres have nothing to do with it, Paul Ricard is a power track + new Mercedes aero and engine upgrade increased the gap from 3 tenths to 5 tenths.
    I think you were watching a different race then. Vet was on Pole in Canada. They were about .1 slower, plus Vet made a mistake, they are very fine margins, you do not loose .4 tenths to an engine, then Mercedes gained about 40hp, which is not possible as that would be a gain over the winter on a year long upgrade project.
    Engine alone donesnt allow you to complete a fast lap, but tiers do. These tyers are less likely to overheat.
    You need to have tiers to complete a lap, and thats exactly what Mercedes got with these modified tiers. You need to have a good tier, good preparation and not overheat.
    Mercedes do not overheat the tiers and it helps them with aero too. This season, it has come down to the tiers and how you use them.
    How can you explain Baku then, when we were on pole if engine has a huge effect this season? Past season engines had a huge effect becasue there was a huge gap, but now anymore. We cant say its down to engine, especially on a circuit where they brought the "special" tiers, which gives Mercedes an advantage. And I think this is why Mercedes brought the upgrade to here, so they can say its the engine, not the tyers. When you look at it in Spain, Mercedes had a huge advantage, their car was suddenly so much faster.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I think you were watching a different race then. Vet was on Pole in Canada. They were about .1 slower, plus Vet made a mistake, they are very fine margins, you do not loose .4 tenths to an engine, then Mercedes gained about 40hp, which is not possible as that would be a gain over the winter on a year long upgrade project.
    Engine alone donesnt allow you to complete a fast lap, but tiers do. These tyers are less likely to overheat.
    You need to have tiers to complete a lap, and thats exactly what Mercedes got with these modified tiers. You need to have a good tier, good preparation and not overheat.
    Mercedes do not overheat the tiers and it helps them with aero too. This season, it has come down to the tiers and how you use them.
    How can you explain Baku then, when we were on pole if engine has a huge effect this season? Past season engines had a huge effect becasue there was a huge gap, but now anymore. We cant say its down to engine, especially on a circuit where they brought the "special" tiers, which gives Mercedes an advantage. And I think this is why Mercedes brought the upgrade to here, so they can say its the engine, not the tyers. When you look at it in Spain, Mercedes had a huge advantage, their car was suddenly so much faster.
    Yup ... now best example to illustrate it is Spain, Canada, France, Austria & Silverstone track/quali positions.

    In Spain Merc dominated over good margin. Rest of field didn’t have answers.
    Come Canada Merc struggled. Now they are back, I think Ferrari/vettel would be satisfied for 2nd or 3rd. Win would be lucky for him. Next track would evaluate mercs performance again, because Silverstone they would be back again everybody knows it.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Of course Rubens was beaten in those years and yes I did watch those races. Still though, 4th place or 3rd place helps doesn't it for the WCC title????
    Only helps if you have someone like MS winning races, as I said MS made the difference in those years in a car that was not dominant, just like he did in 97,98 and 06 and just missed out. We had good cars for many years but certainly not dominant ones for that whole period.
    Forza Ferrari

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardyrt View Post
    I think you were watching a different race then. Vet was on Pole in Canada. They were about .1 slower, plus Vet made a mistake, they are very fine margins, you do not loose .4 tenths to an engine, then Mercedes gained about 40hp, which is not possible as that would be a gain over the winter on a year long upgrade project.
    Engine alone donesnt allow you to complete a fast lap, but tiers do. These tyers are less likely to overheat.
    You need to have tiers to complete a lap, and thats exactly what Mercedes got with these modified tiers. You need to have a good tier, good preparation and not overheat.
    Mercedes do not overheat the tiers and it helps them with aero too. This season, it has come down to the tiers and how you use them.
    How can you explain Baku then, when we were on pole if engine has a huge effect this season? Past season engines had a huge effect becasue there was a huge gap, but now anymore. We cant say its down to engine, especially on a circuit where they brought the "special" tiers, which gives Mercedes an advantage. And I think this is why Mercedes brought the upgrade to here, so they can say its the engine, not the tyers. When you look at it in Spain, Mercedes had a huge advantage, their car was suddenly so much faster.
    Vettel was on pole because Vettel is a better qualifier than Bottas or are you trying to say that Bottas is as good as Vettel on Saturday and the only gap was because Ferrari was superior?

    No one from Ferrari has mentioned tyres this weekend, Vettel already said they have identified the issue they faced in Spain and Vettel also mentioned that tyres are no longer an issue, their pace on Friday proves it.

    In Baku, Ferrari went for more downforce for Sector 2 because they knew their deployment ain't as good as Mercedes. Top speed is one thing but on a track where 75% of the lap is spent on full throttle, deployment matters which is where Ferrari PU lack.

    I am waiting for the new cylinder head which is expected in Spec 3 engine which should allow Ferrari to have a qualifying mode directly comparable to Mercedes.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Yup ... now best example to illustrate it is Spain, Canada, France, Austria & Silverstone track/quali positions.

    In Spain Merc dominated over good margin. Rest of field didn’t have answers.
    Come Canada Merc struggled. Now they are back, I think Ferrari/vettel would be satisfied for 2nd or 3rd. Win would be lucky for him. Next track would evaluate mercs performance again, because Silverstone they would be back again everybody knows it.
    In Spain qualifying, Vettel was just 1 and a half tenth slower than Hamilton who was on faster tyre. Hardly a domination, problems were in race when tyres were degrading too quickly due to new suspension not working in tandem with thinner tyres. Mercedes had an edge in qualifying and that's about it.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harley View Post
    I am not referring to Kimi. I'm OK with Leclerc as long as he is allowed to race and not put in any sort of supporting role because of his youth, lack of experience etc.
    Ferrari is #1, #2 it's not equal status.
    He will be given an equal CAR for sure, but thinking that this is going to be a team where both drivers will drive under equal status ... I don' t think this is possible in Ferrari.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  7. #397
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    Any news on today’s weather during the race ???
    Ferrari hope for cooler conditions
    Mercs & RB for hot/wet conditions

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Ferrari is #1, #2 it's not equal status.
    He will be given an equal CAR for sure, but thinking that this is going to be a team where both drivers will drive under equal status ... I don' t think this is possible in Ferrari.
    Not possible in any team there will always be one driver not getting the best strategy or mechanics etc.....
    Forza Ferrari

  9. #399
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    I haven't been following F1 this weekend but what can Ferrari do to win this race? is it possible?

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    I haven't been following F1 this weekend but what can Ferrari do to win this race? is it possible?
    Possible yes, Seb will need a great start though I think.
    Forza Ferrari

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    I haven't been following F1 this weekend but what can Ferrari do to win this race? is it possible?
    If Vettel can have a great start from P3, he is on the clean side of the grid with faster tyres and there is a long run down to Turn 1, Vettel's starts have also been good this year. If a Mercedes is in P1 into turn 1, no one will be able to stop them from winning because till now 2 times Mercedes has been in clean air - Australia and Spain and the results were devastating for the competition.

    If Vettel is P1 by turn 1, he has a slim chance to win.
    If Vettel is P2 or lower, Mercedes win by 20 seconds.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    If Vettel can have a great start from P3, he is on the clean side of the grid with faster tyres and there is a long run down to Turn 1, Vettel's starts have also been good this year. If a Mercedes is in P1 into turn 1, no one will be able to stop them from winning because till now 2 times Mercedes has been in clean air - Australia and Spain and the results were devastating for the competition.

    If Vettel is P1 by turn 1, he has a slim chance to win.
    If Vettel is P2 or lower, Mercedes win by 20 seconds.
    I reckon it all depends on weather conditions which leads to tyre behaviour.

  13. #403
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    most options for max, howcome we have less SS
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I reckon it all depends on weather conditions which leads to tyre behaviour.
    +1

    Mother Nature, rain in this case, is the unforeseen determining factor which throws all race, tyre strats. out the window.

  15. #405
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    was looking at Quali results from Australia - Spain - France

    Everytime Mercs completely dominate, HAAS make a big leap forward with them.

    so it could be the aero/chassis they have really benefits on these modified tyres and/or the track styles benefit mercs/haas who have similar philosophies just thought its interesting, we'l see if Haas falls back a bit in Austria and if they make a giant leap forward again at Silverstone and whether mercs follow the same pattern
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  16. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    I reckon it all depends on weather conditions which leads to tyre behaviour.
    i think rain is threatening mid way or near the end, but it could happen or not happen at anytime since the thunderstorm threat is supposedly near the track
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Any news on today’s weather during the race ???
    Ferrari hope for cooler conditions
    Mercs & RB for hot/wet conditions
    i think sky said, colder conditions benefit the SS/Softs and hot weather benefits US, as they struggle to hold heat in the tyres of the US in colder weather, hamilton was perplexed as well as to any reason ferrari would go on the US
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  18. #408
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    The sun shines now in Paul Ricard. The forecast shows possibility D rain for the race between 50% and 70%. Max 25c temperature. Little Wind.
    @AlbertFabrega
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  19. #409
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    @karunchandhok

    Just saw Q3 lap comparison between Lewis and Seb. LH advantage seems to be in the medium speed changes of direction through the chicanes and last couple corners. Sure it helped, but pole was not all because of the Merc engine upgrade. Ferrari actually a bit quicker on straights
    mercs have had great cornering better than ferrari since pretesting i remember analysts mentioning how sluggish the car was in Barca through the corners, if we can fix this issue or catch up, possibly could be P2 here maybe just maybe p1
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  20. #410
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    For the sake of the WCC we really could use one non-scoring Merc in today's race. So far the only problem on race day for them has been Bottas blown tyre in Baku. Besides that one they've navigated around all other scares in their control. Should they score another 1-2 as in Barcelona then Ferrari will probably have to do the same in Austria.

    Besides, there's no mention whatsoever on the official F1 site of the "special" tyres used this weekend. So natuarlly that fact in itself proves it's a decisive factor. A non-comment is often more telling than a comment.

  21. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Iíve read some analysis from AMUS,

    1) these tyres really are favouring mercs a lot than other teams like RB & Ferrari. They quickly get into working range & pump a lap after a lap with further improvement.

    2) If itís only the power, they took the example of their customer teams. No one is into the q3, infact in top10 standings 5 cars are Ferrari powered.

    3) Also amus reported, only Spain & France mercs has front row lock out. Both the drivers looked comfortable, in general one of them used to struggle with softer tyres. But this isnít the case.

    4) There is a rumour in the paddock that, mercs wantedly pushed its engine upgrade to France. So as to showcase that itís the engine upgrade that got them to this position not the tyre advantage else there would have been much talk about the tyres again saying itís favouring mercs team.

    5) Amus also mentioned that it will be interesting to see whereís these mercs quali in Austria when Pirelli bring back original tyres & again compare it with Silverstone.


    All in all, to be precise these new tyres are really favouring mercs not the engine.
    The bold part. That is my opinion as well. Sneaky Merc. But all that will be impossible to hide come Silverstone where they probably be even further ahead. But since most people have an attention span of maxium a few days it will be forgotten in the media buzz.

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    It wasn't a myth when Michael was there...he was clear-cut #1 but that is b/c he was comprehensively better than all his teammates.

    Ferrari has never, in my life, been a team that cares for the WCC over the WDC. They have always put their chips behind the #1 driver. Teams like Williams and McLaren always claimed the opposite and tended to act as they claimed. RB pays lip service only to the idea, and Merc too I believe.

    When Ferrari won the WCC in 1999 it felt like a consolation prize b/c Michael had a car that year that he could have won the WDC with had Eddie not put him into the wall at Silverstone. When Michael came back at the end of the year it was only to help Ferrari to win that WCC b/c no way in the world he was going to help Eddie win the WDC, which is what Michael had been building the team towards when he joined in 1996.

    I keep comparing this year and Ferrari's driver pairing to 1998 b/c Michael had to battle both McLarens that year essentially by himself. Eddie wasn't good enough to assist him to a WDC...Eddie's results in 1999 were the result of a great car, not Eddie's ability. Ferrari needs a driver like Reubens who can win a race and take points off the title rivals like he did in Germany in 2000. Bottas is like Reubens in 2000.

    Kimi was a very good/almost great driver, once, though he's never been as consistent as you would like to see from the F1 greats...now he is just too slow. Arguing otherwise is being blind to reality now.
    I don't deny that Ferrari uses team orders to push for WDC, but we are not the only one.
    I can't speak for those decades where I didn't watch, but since Schumi's time, F1 has always been geared towards WDC, it is a championship that is more celebrated than WCC.
    And based on how previous WDC winners are celebrated today, I would guess it was the same too.

    All top teams generally push for WDC.

    Drivers like Schumi, Alonso, and Vettel, were all great drivers that were faster than their team mates, hence they are often the driver to push for WDC. But Ferrari did not intentionally made them the better one.
    Of course, back then Schumi did build the team around himself, but I don't see such arrangement anymore now. Vettel did not bring Newey and co. over to Ferrari, he just came here and drove whatever we build.

  23. #413
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    Anybody have updates on the weather ?

  24. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondilad View Post
    Anybody have updates on the weather ?
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  25. #415
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    does anybody have speed trap figures for qualy yesterday?

  26. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    does anybody have speed trap figures for qualy yesterday?


    best i could find
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  27. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Thanks and where do you get them from?

    Thanks again!

  28. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScuderiaBuckeye View Post
    Thanks and where do you get them from?

    Thanks again!
    N.P, this dude, he is usually spot on with his f1 stuff https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/st...89001256927235

    i think its from the official f1 site
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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