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Thread: F1 to ban tyre blankets, use 18" wheels in 2021

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down F1 to ban tyre blankets, use 18" wheels in 2021

    Formula 1 is making a fresh attempt to ban tyre blankets from 2021, as the FIA opened the tender process for the next supply contract that will include a move to low-profile 18-inch rims.

    The next single supplier contract will cover the four seasons from 2020 to 2023, the first of which will be run with current tyre sizes and blankets.

    From 2021, the front tyres are set to be narrower, dropping by 35mm to 270mm. The rears will stay the same, at 405mm, while diameters will increase from the current 670m to “700-720mm.”


    That means if anyone other than Pirelli wins the bid, it will have to develop tyres from scratch that will be used for only one year before the major package of rules changes comes on stream in 2021.

    That will clearly make it very difficult for someone like Michelin – which wanted F1 to switch to low profile tyres when the last bid process took place.

    The loss of tyre blankets will be one of the biggest technical challenges that the winning bidder will face.

    The subject has been discussed and attempts have been made to introduce it, but the plans were always canned on safety grounds.

    The FIA has noted, however, that it believes there is a way forward that will not require a change of heart this time.

    "Tyres should provide safe performance when leaving the pits cold," said the official FIA tender document.

    "The glass transition temperature must be chosen so that the tyres are never in a ‘glassy state’ when either the ambient or the track temperature is above 10 degrees centigrade.”

    Intriguingly it adds that “for winter testing a specific low temperature tyre will be required. This will form the bulk of supply to the teams for European winter testing with a limited number of race compounds available,” while confirming that “wet and intermediate tyres should also be capable of running without the need for pre-heating.”

    The FIA makes it clear that the “improvement of the show” is a the number one priority, and that the process should start with the final year of the current tyre sizes: “The provider should commit to achieving this in 75 percent of circuits in 2020, and to improve their performance with respect to this objective throughout the whole period of the tyre supply.”

    In addition, “in order to stabilise at a pressure that provides peak performance, the tyres must be capable of commencing running at cold pressures compatible with achieving suitable stabilised pressures.”

    There will be three compounds at each race, as expected, with the simplified hard, medium and soft names. The FIA characterises the tyres as follows:

    - Hard compound: 2s degradation achieved at 22% race distance Base lap time

    - Medium compound: 2s degradation achieved at 18% race distance 1.2s/lap quicker than Hard compound

    - Soft compound: 2s degradation achieved at 10% race distance 2.2s/lap quicker than Hard compound

    The FIA hopes that there will be more strategic variety, saying that “the intent is to create the maximum number of race strategies yielding race times such that multi-stop strategies provide just enough potential of a beneficial outcome to encourage the greatest variety in the racing spectacle.”

    For a typical circuit it wants the following:

    - 1x Medium Compound + 1x Hard Compound = 1-Stop Race

    - 1x Soft Compound + 2x Medium Compound = 2-Stop Race

    - 3x Soft Compound + 1x Medium Compound = 3-Stop Race

    Regarding tyre wear, the FIA says it is “considered desirable both for its impact on race strategies and to ensure tyres are not run to a point of excessive wear. A non-linear performance gradient change (‘cliff’) at a certain percentage of tyre wear would achieve this. It is suggested that an underlayer of low performance is designed below the tread compound to achieve this.”

    The FIA also wants tyres that can recover, noting “it is expected that aggressive driving or close following will incur higher tyre degradation per lap than gentle driving or driving in free air. Once a period of aggressive driving or close following ceases, the tyre should rapidly recover the lower level of degradation per lap associated with the more benign conditions.”

    On the matter of performance it adds: “In terms of absolute lap time, the performance of the tyres fitted to 18” wheels should, when at operating temperature, be at least as good as the 2019 tyres.”

    Tyre suppliers have until August 31 to submit their bids. A decision on technical and safety compliance will be made by September 14, and then after the commercial aspects of any ‘Approved Bidders’ will be considered.

    Liberty will then make its choice, which then has to propose prior to official approval by the FIA

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...-2021-1061724/
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  2. #2
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    They left out ; the FIA is in Pirelli's pocket! F -Pirelli will never let another Co. even think of taking over. $$$.... Oh OK. Pirelli is right! Let them do it!

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    Liberty and the FIA are really dismantling F1 as we know it bit by bit through the media this year. The sport one grew up with in the 1980s will seize to exist in the 2020s. They just throw out these bits of news and future propositions very carefully. Not too many at once, but enough for one to feel what's coming in the future. 18-inch rims look silly on a F1 car. For 18-inch rims to look OK on anything they need some body work around them. Otherwise they look like biscyle wheels or a stroller. As for the compounds. Now they will be called hard, medium and soft at every race so nobody (the fans) will know what kind of compounds they really are. One will not be able to make any comparision anymore to see what packages work well on what compounds and on what circuits. They are dumbing down everything. Liberty also want points for every driver, down to last place. It's a complete overhaul and I sometimes get the feeling many changes in society in general are pushed through just for the sake of changing something some way. Not to make something better and more refined but to change something for the sake of change.

    Now Sergio has gone ill and the worst moment possible for Ferrari (and the sport). The risk being now Ferrari will not play hardball anymore because anyone coming in is simply not informed and skilled enough to continue the pressure. Get well Sergio.

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    Currently, all team engineers design the suspension with the current 13inch wheels and said profile tires in mind because those tires take some of the assorption and flexion loads on said tires. How many times have we seen slo-mo's of the rear tires "gyrating" in and out of the rim??? Engineers take into account of this "gyration" and design the suspension around this.

    An 18inch wheel will require a completely different suspension as well as new chassis design up front and rear portion of the car to handle more loads since the tire will have a lower profile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Currently, all team engineers design the suspension with the current 13inch wheels and said profile tires in mind because those tires take some of the assorption and flexion loads on said tires. How many times have we seen slo-mo's of the rear tires "gyrating" in and out of the rim??? Engineers take into account of this "gyration" and design the suspension around this.

    An 18inch wheel will require a completely different suspension as well as new chassis design up front and rear portion of the car to handle more loads since the tire will have a lower profile.
    And without any notice the likes of Grosejean can smash all that new car equip. to bits in an instant!! The 18in. wheels won't help escape him !

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Currently, all team engineers design the suspension with the current 13inch wheels and said profile tires in mind because those tires take some of the assorption and flexion loads on said tires. How many times have we seen slo-mo's of the rear tires "gyrating" in and out of the rim??? Engineers take into account of this "gyration" and design the suspension around this.

    An 18inch wheel will require a completely different suspension as well as new chassis design up front and rear portion of the car to handle more loads since the tire will have a lower profile.
    Exactly. That's the technical part of the 13-inch rim and what it does and how engineers use it in the overall design of the suspension and aerodynamics. With 18-inch rims the cornering speed will obviously be lower. It's easy physics. One has to only look att Formula E to see how slow these cars corner compared to their relative top speed. Riding the kerbs at Monza for instance will also be impossible.

    We don't need to kid ourselves. The future plan is obviously to merge Formula 1 with Formula E some time in the late 2020's. Todt and Brawn are working hard on that. It's the curse of modern times when everything has to be merged in the end.

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    I guess I'm probably alone in this, but I really dislike those 18in rims, they are fine on some cars but I think they look stupid on F1 cars, make them look like toy cars.
    Common doesn't mean "Come on"; "Should have" not "Should of" ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariSteve View Post
    I guess I'm probably alone in this, but I really dislike those 18in rims, they are fine on some cars but I think they look stupid on F1 cars, make them look like toy cars.
    You're not alone. Anybody wanting to watch open-wheel racing with 18-inch rims can watch Formula E.

    If the above goes into effect in F1 the lap records this year and next year will probably stand for all time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    You're not alone. Anybody wanting to watch open-wheel racing with 18-inch rims can watch Formula E.

    If the above goes into effect in F1 the lap records this year and next year will probably stand for all time.
    There are some lap records currently that have yet to be broken BY the 2018 cars FROM the 2004 cars (V-10 era ...... ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    There are some lap records currently that have yet to be broken BY the 2018 cars FROM the 2004 cars (V-10 era ...... ).
    I meant the new circuits on the calendar that they've added after 2004. True that most lap records are from 2004 and the V10 era. But for instance Ricciardo beat the lap record at Barcelona this year. Max beat the Monaco lap record this season, although it's slightly different since 2015 (Tabac). Kimi beat the lap record this season in Austria, although it's 8 meters shorter than the layout used previously (before 2016) and the one in the 1990s. Etc. There's no way to beat those lap records on 18-inch rims. Which means F1 will not be the pinnacle of motorsport anymore and I doubt it will be the fastest series anyway.

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    cheeky post...
    Liberty Media is... American, and year in and year out Americans have been lambasted for having... "world series" and Indy cars and Nascar, which ONLY Americans follow...
    Therefore, the conspiracy theory...
    If F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, let's make ridiculous changes and make the racing as BORING as possible, and ensure that almost EVERY race is won NOT by PERFORMANCE but by CHANCE... then maybe, just maybe nascar and indy will become more appealing than F1...

    There's my 5c worth.

    So far EVERY decision taken in F1 has been to destroy the sport and NOT make it a more appealing sport for fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post



    So far EVERY decision taken in F1 has been to destroy the sport and NOT make it a more appealing sport for fans.
    Lewis Hamilton is there "savior" and Charlie Whiting and the FIA are making sure of that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    If F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, let's make ridiculous changes and make the racing as BORING as possible, and ensure that almost EVERY race is won NOT by PERFORMANCE but by CHANCE... then maybe, just maybe nascar and indy will become more appealing than F1...
    This hybrid era formula was already in the works way before Liberty took over....still in the Bernie era. Liberty inherited what is F1.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 26th July 2018 at 16:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    This hybrid era formula was already in the works way before Liberty took over....still in the Bernie era. Liberty inherited what is F1.
    One does not nullify the other now does it?
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    One does not nullify the other now does it?

    +1

    "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    You're not alone. Anybody wanting to watch open-wheel racing with 18-inch rims can watch Formula E.

    If the above goes into effect in F1 the lap records this year and next year will probably stand for all time.
    How does lower profile tires mean slower lap times?
    Don't those tires have lesser deformation?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    How does lower profile tires mean slower lap times?
    Don't those tires have lesser deformation?
    You want a tire to "deform," especially in the corners where it builds up the most heat and "grips" the corner better...dependant on tire compound. Down the straights either 13 inch or 18 inch (low profile) roughly do the same thing but it's the corners that matters hence the 13 inch are better for the corners due to deformation.

    Which is why a low profile tire will be slower than a 13 inch rim tire.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccardog View Post
    cheeky post...
    Liberty Media is... American, and year in and year out Americans have been lambasted for having... "world series" and Indy cars and Nascar, which ONLY Americans follow...
    Therefore, the conspiracy theory...
    If F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, let's make ridiculous changes and make the racing as BORING as possible, and ensure that almost EVERY race is won NOT by PERFORMANCE but by CHANCE... then maybe, just maybe nascar and indy will become more appealing than F1...

    There's my 5c worth.

    So far EVERY decision taken in F1 has been to destroy the sport and NOT make it a more appealing sport for fans.
    Especially team orders! Destroys the sport, like a boxer taking a dive because he was told to $$$$

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Especially team orders! Destroys the sport, like a boxer taking a dive because he was told to $$$$
    Not the same but ok, I understand since it was drivers you liked that supported drivers you did not like :D
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    A televised fist fight between #1,#2 drivers for position would be great to pass the summer break! But no team orders before the fight!!

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    i saw something about cars being 3seconds quicker on these new 18inch tyres, i thought it was the other way round.
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    i saw something about cars being 3seconds quicker on these new 18inch tyres, i thought it was the other way round.
    Paddy Lowe doesn't agree with the idiot Isola.
    https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/18865...ch-wheels.html

    Paddy Lowe, chief technical officer at Williams, is not convinced about the effectiveness of it all.
    "On the road it's more fashionable, but in Formula One it just causes less grip and more weight."

    Of course Paddy knows better. Isola is just pushing an agenda. For 18 inch rims to be quicker the only way to do that would be to ad bigger break discs and pads. What cars would lose in the corners they may gain that by breaking later and more violent, which obviously would shorten the grip levels of the tyres rapdily. So races would be slower anyway because of more pitstops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    Paddy Lowe doesn't agree with the idiot Isola.
    https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/18865...ch-wheels.html

    Paddy Lowe, chief technical officer at Williams, is not convinced about the effectiveness of it all.
    "On the road it's more fashionable, but in Formula One it just causes less grip and more weight."

    Of course Paddy knows better. Isola is just pushing an agenda. For 18 inch rims to be quicker the only way to do that would be to ad bigger break discs and pads. What cars would lose in the corners they may gain that by breaking later and more violent, which obviously would shorten the grip levels of the tyres rapdily. So races would be slower anyway because of more pitstops.
    exactly, i understood it this way as well, but maybe there is some new regulation that benefit these size tyres , will have to wait for more info, are teams going to be allowed to test them soon or anything?
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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    One thing is certain: The suspension will get a lot of abuse with a lower profiled tyre and bigger (heavier) rim. We will see a lot of failures caused by running over the kerbs. Anyone else concerned about the safety risks as well? I mean a heavier wheel detaching from an F1 car at high speed flying towards some Marshal is asking for trouble in the case of a crash!

    The bigger rim is also an open invite to the aggressive drivers out there to bump wheels during some daring overtake knowing that the chances of blowing a tyre are less probable. I might start the Verstappen wheel bump counter lol.

    On another note they do look awesome from the impressions I have seen so far though.

    p.s. this might also impact the pit stops with heavier wheels.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    One thing is certain: The suspension will get a lot of abuse with a lower profiled tyre and bigger (heavier) rim. We will see a lot of failures caused by running over the kerbs. Anyone else concerned about the safety risks as well? I mean a heavier wheel detaching from an F1 car at high speed flying towards some Marshal is asking for trouble in the case of a crash!

    The bigger rim is also an open invite to the aggressive drivers out there to bump wheels during some daring overtake knowing that the chances of blowing a tyre are less probable. I might start the Verstappen wheel bump counter lol.

    On another note they do look awesome from the impressions I have seen so far though.

    p.s. this might also impact the pit stops with heavier wheels.
    agreed!
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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