2018 Italian GP Monza: RACE

[nani_s23]

I am just saying that every one is blaming Kimi or team, and it is actually Seb who has not done his work.
Like I said, Kimi`s job is to beat Bottas, Seb´s job is to beat Hamilton, and Team has giving fastest car to work with.

Ham didn’t win Monza on his own merit. He did rely on his team mate.
The same applies for Ferrari. That’s what I’m saying from the beginning. Team support or orders is needed.

[mwk360]

seb's "we speak after" was probably the most useless discussion seeing sunday's results

[mwk360]

Kimi has not helped seb win a single race this year , last year he atleast aided in hungary

[darkchild]

I am just saying that every one is blaming Kimi or team, and it is actually Seb who has not done his work.
Like I said, Kimi`s job is to beat Bottas, Seb´s job is to beat Hamilton, and Team has giving fastest car to work with.

Yes, but Hamilton is beating Vettel with help of Bottas, Kimi is absolutely not helping Sebastian at all. He is out of the gate, thats why he was driving like that yesterday. I guess he will end up in McL or somewhere, but he is not driving for Ferrari next year.

Read up on todays Mark Hughes article on race. He said Kimi defended VERY hard and made it very difficult to Seb in T2 where he parked it in middle of the road just to go to outside and break a bit early, leaving Seb in no mans land where he had to take inside line in the end and gave the opening to Hamilton.

Then there is Germany. Vettel gets pole, Kimi cant manage to outqualify Bottas, then gets better strat and ends up ahead of Seb because Bottas was pressuring him and was used so that Ham can come back into game (and he did). What happens when Seb gets behind Kimi on newer tires, better speed and different strat (Kimi has to pit one more time)? Ferrari doesnt do ANYTHING for 10 laps and Kimi barely gives position that he wasn't even suppose to have (and shouldn't, as he was again, on 2 stopper therefore he was blocking Seb).

Operationally, team is a mess. Driver wise? Give us Max and Ric and this would already be done.

[KimiBot]

Seb after quali

“It’s a good result for Kimi, and he found the nice sweet spot. But my last lap was not too good and that is the emotion dominating now. I lost a bit in the first chicane, more in the second, and then the Lesmos, but the last sector was okay. But overall it was not good enough. I was lucky to get second rather than third.”

[Rishu]

I don’t think Kimi has said no, I will not help Seb. Team has been reluctant in enforcing team orders and I understand that, that’s classy. But to win championships when rivals are neck & neck, we need all the help available, team orders included

[nani_s23]

Seb after quali

“It’s a good result for Kimi, and he found the nice sweet spot. But my last lap was not too good and that is the emotion dominating now. I lost a bit in the first chicane, more in the second, and then the Lesmos, but the last sector was okay. But overall it was not good enough. I was lucky to get second rather than third.”

Nice sweet spot means a good tow. Look at final S1 & S3.. kimi was close to vettel than vet to ham.

[KimiBot]

Q: (Christian Menath – Motorsport-magazin.com) Question for Seb. Can you talk us through that last lap? What exactly was not perfect? Was it the timing, that you didn’t get the perfect tow or was there a bit of a mistake at some point? What was it?

SV: No. To be honest it was not a tidy lap. I think the other laps were actually better, so… yeah… I lost a bit in the first chicane, the second chicane, the Lesmos, pretty much a bit everywhere. I think the last sector was OK but also not fantastic. It was just not a good lap and not good enough. Obviously lucky to get second instead of third but… yeah. Just not good enough.

[nani_s23]

Kimi has not helped seb win a single race this year , last year he atleast aided in hungary

At 2nd, I agree to ur post

[nani_s23]

Q: (Christian Menath – Motorsport-magazin.com) Question for Seb. Can you talk us through that last lap? What exactly was not perfect? Was it the timing, that you didn’t get the perfect tow or was there a bit of a mistake at some point? What was it?

SV: No. To be honest it was not a tidy lap. I think the other laps were actually better, so… yeah… I lost a bit in the first chicane, the second chicane, the Lesmos, pretty much a bit everywhere. I think the last sector was OK but also not fantastic. It was just not a good lap and not good enough. Obviously lucky to get second instead of third but… yeah. Just not good enough.

I’m not portraying kimi did wrong in q3. In actual race, he blocked vettel instead of ham. That’s the conversation happening here.

[KimiBot]

I’m not portraying kimi did wrong in q3. In actual race, he blocked vettel instead of ham. That’s the conversation happening here.

Maybe Seb could not handle the pressure, making mistakes everywhere in quali. All started from there.
You can blame everyone else that Seb did not won, if that makes you happy.

[nani_s23]

Maybe Seb could not handle the pressure, making mistakes everywhere in quali. All started from there.
You can blame everyone else that Seb did not won, if that makes you happy.

After watching yesterday’s race, you can see my posts. I stated vettel doesn’t deserve title. He looks like a ordinary driver.
But as a Ferrari fan, I still believe we can do it. We need collective support that’s what I’m mentioning.

There are 4 mistakes yest

1) team not imposing orders
2) kimi defending hard against vettel even with a lock up which burnt his tyres.
3) vettel mistake
3) ferrari strategy to bring kimi in.

If 1st would been discussed, then 2,3,4 wouldn’t have happened.

[Christopher]

Kimi has not helped seb win a single race this year , last year he atleast aided in hungary

Kimi hasn't finished infront of Lewis since China

[prancing horse]

I wonder if sending Kimi 2nd behind Seb in qualifying was payback for Spa qualifying when he ran out of fuel. Seb kind of alluded to this.
If this is the case and I have a very strong suspicion that it is there needs to be some serious questions asked of our management.

[prancing horse]

Also to all Seb haters.
What would rather have.
A tepid lackluster driver like Kimi who settles for 2nd best or someone like Seb who has a go all the time.
I personally love watching Seb. He has a go and for that he has all the respect in the world from me.

[nani_s23]

Also to all Seb haters.
What would rather have.
A tepid lackluster driver like Kimi who settles for 2nd best or someone like Seb who has a go all the time.
I personally love watching Seb. He has a go and for that he has all the respect in the world from me.

Vettel seems to have patience off the track, but not on the track. That’s is making more problems.
Look at Hungary, n other race where he waited n did make a move on bottas for the win. That is vettel.
Race is not won at 1st lap

[KimiBot]

After watching yesterday’s race, you can see my posts. I stated vettel doesn’t deserve title. He looks like a ordinary driver.

I don`t want to say this, but at the moment, I feel like that too.
BUT we have a great car and everything is still possible, just sharper Seb is what we need.

[darkchild]

When I said we have worst driver pairing of top teams a few months ago people almost killed me here. Kimi can't race to save his life anymore. He can put fast lap, but he is nowhere near fast enough to fend of Hamilton.

Vettel, while very fast (just look at his car yesterday), is error prone and hotheaded. Can't win like that. Ric and Max would take this champ a month ago.

[Module]

I suggest you have a new look at the start. You are so adamant that Kimi ruined everything that you can't see what is actually happening.

Start-Kimi slots in front of Vettel giving a tow. Hamilton had a better start than Seb and without a tow would have passed.

Turn one-Kimi takes the inside line and leaves the better racing line for Vettel, but he tries to attack. Kimi locks up because of cold tyres and dirtier side
Turn two-Kimi again gives racing line to Vettel who keeps on attacking instead of taking the better line thru corners and possibly safely passing on next straight

Accident-corner. Kimi again takes inside line leaving Vettel the better line. Instead of using this and getting good speed for next straight for a pass Vettel divebombs to the inside giving Hamilton the racingline, and when he understands this he just turns in on Hamilton.

Kimi gave all the keys to Vettel for optimal exit to straights and a safe pass where Kimi could have slotted behind, get a tow and keep Hamilton back

[nani_s23]

I suggest you have a new look at the start. You are so adamant that Kimi ruined everything that you can't see what is actually happening.

Start-Kimi slots in front of Vettel giving a tow. Hamilton had a better start than Seb and without a tow would have passed.

Turn one-Kimi takes the inside line and leaves the better racing line for Vettel, but he tries to attack. Kimi locks up because of cold tyres and dirtier side
Turn two-Kimi again gives racing line to Vettel who keeps on attacking instead of taking the better line thru corners and possibly safely passing on next straight

Accident-corner. Kimi again takes inside line leaving Vettel the better line. Instead of using this and getting good speed for next straight for a pass Vettel divebombs to the inside giving Hamilton the racingline, and when he understands this he just turns in on Hamilton.

Kimi gave all the keys to Vettel for optimal exit to straights and a safe pass where Kimi could have slotted behind, get a tow and keep Hamilton back

If kimi would had given a space, definetly vettel would have taken that opportunity.
But it isn’t, kimi was racing hard to maintain that 1st place. There r two ways to see it,
Either kimi lost ferrari seat for next year or kimi would have given a place to vettel at later stage upon team orders on radio.

[Michal2_F1]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/33461454 - Phantom pitstops are illegal. Has anything changed? It is not the first time Mercedes is doing this, so maybe some clarification is needed. All we are talking about is Hamilton's suffering from boos even though Ferrari drivers received the same treatment at Silverstone as did Rosberg. Sad no one is interesting in that while it's okay to circulate some phony battery stories.

[Module]

If kimi would had given a space, definetly vettel would have taken that opportunity.
But it isn’t, kimi was racing hard to maintain that 1st place. There r two ways to see it,
Either kimi lost ferrari seat for next year or kimi would have given a place to vettel at later stage upon team orders on radio.

Arrivabene also said that it is to dangerous to have teamorders in the start. Disregaarding that there wasn't a chance for Kimi to let Vettel pass without loosing Ferraris 1-2.

Vettel only needed to take the better line provided, get a good exit and safely pass on one of the straight

Kimi has never disregarded a team order. Last time he asked what do you want me to do, and when they said he acted according to it

[nani_s23]

Arrivabene also said that it is to dangerous to have teamorders in the start. Disregaarding that there wasn't a chance for Kimi to let Vettel pass without loosing Ferraris 1-2.

Vettel only needed to take the better line provided, get a good exit and safely pass on one of the straight

Kimi has never disregarded a team order. Last time he asked what do you want me to do, and when they said he acted according to it

MA comments might be at the beginning of the season.
Now they r into final 7-8 races, also kimi is long way off WDC or vettel. Not imposing team orders is dangerous now.

[dfunk257]

WHY DID FERRARI PRIORITISE KIMI AND NOT SEB THIS RACE????? They gave him what he needed during qualy, then they obviously told him he could race against his own team mate. Like srsly ???? Hello Ferrari??? Seb is your championship contender, NOT KIMI!! Seb shouldve got priority during Qualy so he could be on pole and repeat what he did in Spa, run away from his championship rival and win the race easily. Every1 is blaming and having a dig at Seb because of the accident BUT HE SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE 1ST PLACE!!! Its bad enough Kimi got pole in front of Seb but then he didnt help not 1 bit, but look at what Merc did with Bottas. Just ridiculous decision making from Ferrari again.
What were Ferrari thinking of when they decided to implement these tactics AT OUR HOME GRAND PRIX of all races!!
Im so upset right now.

[Rishu]

MA comments might be at the beginning of the season.
Now they r into final 7-8 races, also kimi is long way off WDC or vettel. Not imposing team orders is dangerous now.

He’s saying team orders shouldn’t be applied during first lap or two when rivals are pretty close, it’s risky. If Seb had settled for P2, I’m sure Kimi would’ve moved over at later stage. But it also seems Ferrari have been reluctant to apply team orders as seen in German GP

[mwk360]

WHY DID FERRARI PRIORITISE KIMI AND NOT SEB THIS RACE????? They gave him what he needed during qualy, then they obviously told him he could race against his own team mate. Like srsly ???? Hello Ferrari??? Seb is your championship contender, NOT KIMI!! Seb shouldve got priority during Qualy so he could be on pole and repeat what he did in Spa, run away from his championship rival and win the race easily. Every1 is blaming and having a dig at Seb because of the accident BUT HE SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE 1ST PLACE!!! Its bad enough Kimi got pole in front of Seb but then he didnt help not 1 bit, but look at what Merc did with Bottas. Just ridiculous decision making from Ferrari again.
What were Ferrari thinking of when they decided to implement these tactics AT OUR HOME GRAND PRIX of all races!!
Im so upset right now.

Good Post, plus i think ferrari had the worst tyre deg from the top 3 teams easily, a lot of improvements need to be made in every aspect if they want to stand a chance of catching mercs in the championships (car/team/orders/strategy/drivers) all need to improve

[nani_s23]

He’s saying team orders shouldn’t be applied during first lap or two when rivals are pretty close, it’s risky. If Seb had settled for P2, I’m sure Kimi would’ve moved over at later stage. But it also seems Ferrari have been reluctant to apply team orders as seen in German GP

Yeah... thanks for clarification.

[Ferrari312T4]

That’s why Lewis mentioned “even though ferrari have strongest car, we as a team are delivering the results”.

Yes the team together with a biased FIA.

[T99]

Arrivabene also said that it is to dangerous to have teamorders in the start. Disregaarding that there wasn't a chance for Kimi to let Vettel pass without loosing Ferraris 1-2.

Vettel only needed to take the better line provided, get a good exit and safely pass on one of the straight

Kimi has never disregarded a team order. Last time he asked what do you want me to do, and when they said he acted according to it

There shouldn’t be specific orders to let Seb through at the start, obviously that’s dangerous, but there should be clear instructions to kimi not to fight with Seb, and there should be a clear strategy to cover Hamilton, because if Seb was told that he would be let by later he wouldn’t have fought so hard for 1st position, instead what I think happened was that the team and in particular MA who has been fighting to keep kimi wanted to give this win to kimi to make Ferrari change their minds you can see by the celebrations after kimi got pole, MA hugging and lifting kimis wife in the air huge celebrations, but the plan backfired badly, because first of all kimi doesn’t have the pace to win and Seb was told that he would have to fight in the track which made him very nervous, and when we’re in a battle as close as this one against a team fully behind Hamilton including bottas, this is very hard to understand

[Module]

There shouldn’t be specific orders to let Seb through at the start, obviously that’s dangerous, but there should be clear instructions to kimi not to fight with Seb, and there should be a clear strategy to cover Hamilton, because if Seb was told that he would be let by later he wouldn’t have fought so hard for 1st position, instead what I think happened was that the team and in particular MA who has been fighting to keep kimi wanted to give this win to kimi to make Ferrari change their minds you can see by the celebrations after kimi got pole, MA hugging and lifting kimis wife in the air huge celebrations, but the plan backfired badly, because first of all kimi doesn’t have the pace to win and Seb was told that he would have to fight in the track which made him very nervous, and when we’re in a battle as close as this one against a team fully behind Hamilton including bottas, this is very hard to understand

Even in that case Vettel needed to be in front of Hamilton, not Kimi. He only needed to keep racing line and Hamilton wouldn't have been able to pass.