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Thread: Mick Schumacher, why isnít he in Formula One yet?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    The H2H in races for Russell and Latifi is 6-2 so far in Russell's favour (in all the races they've both finished). I think these concerns about race pace arises when a promising, young driver stays in a backmarker for too long that people would exaggerate whenever he finishes behind his teammate.

    As for Mick, I hope the team doesn't rush him into the main team just because people want to see a Schumacher in a Ferrari. He is a very talented driver but as seen in his career so far, he needs a season or two to get used to the car.

    If all 3 FDA drivers indeed make it to F1 next year, we'd be having one of the most talented grids ever.
    But if we consider the last 4 races, excluding the DNF's, the score is 2-0 in Latifi's favor. Williams best finishing position this year is P11, achieved by Latifi twice. Also last year Kubica secured Williams one and only point and finished ahead of Russell.

    Russell is clearly dominating Latifi and dominated Kubica last year in qualifying, but neither Kubica nor Latifi are a credible benchmark. And his overall race pace is underwhelming compared to his one lap pace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    We need a car first. We can enlist and put the most talented F1 drivers in "a" car BUT it won't make any difference as we are currently witnessing with Charles.
    Sure, but bad car also also defines adaptability. This years Chrales may have only scored to 57 points, but he is better than last years Charles. He has achieved two podiums already and battling with Perez, Ricciardo, Stroll, Albon and Mclaren boys, and all them got better cars than Charles.

    If either Schumacher, Shwartzman or Illiot can do the same with a "bad" car, they will attract attention, and rightfully so. Anyone can win WDC's with a rocket-ship, but only few selected drivers can put a dog in places it doesn't belong, like Charles did this year with his two podiums, like Alonso had done in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    . He has achieved two podiums already and battling with Perez, Ricciardo, Stroll, Albon and Mclaren boys, and all them got better cars than Charles.

    If either Schumacher, Shwartzman or Illiot can do the same with a "bad" car, they will attract attention, and rightfully so. Anyone can win WDC's with a rocket-ship, but only few selected drivers can put a dog in places it doesn't belong, like Charles did this year with his two podiums, like Alonso had done in the past.
    Charles is definitely adaptable and extracting everything he can out of this SF1000 compared to his team-mate.

    Charles podiums this year were not on merit. Drama(the faster cars) has to happen up front for Charles to get a podium this year in 2020.

    I'm not taking away Charles talent since currently he's got 57 points vs. Seb's 17 points (JEEEEZ ).
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Charles is definitely adaptable and extracting everything he can out of this SF1000 compared to his team-mate.

    Charles podiums this year were not on merit. Drama(the faster cars) has to happen up front for Charles to get a podium this year in 2020.

    I'm not taking away Charles talent since currently he's got 57 points vs. Seb's 17 points (JEEEEZ ).
    Of course it wasn't on merit. But the thing is, he has put himself in those positions and took full advantage when other people crashed or had reliability problems ahead of him. And it's not just podium, he has also qualified P4 and finished P4 in Silverstone on pace alone.

    Albon has scored 50 percent of Max's total points, where Vettel has scored 29.82 percent of Leclerc's total points, and some people bashing Albon while putting a blind eye on Vettel's mediocracy, JEEEEZ indeed.

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    Mick in the SF71


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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    ... Albon has scored 50 percent of Max's total points, where Vettel has scored 29.82 percent of Leclerc's total points, and some people bashing Albon while putting a blind eye on Vettel's mediocracy, JEEEEZ indeed.
    Probably because Vettel is a proven 4-time world champion. There's a big difference between underperforming at the tail end of your career and underperforming at the start of your career. Schumacher wasn't spectacular at Mercedes but there's no way you'd judge him the same as you would a relatively young driver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Thank you. Any more news on this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Probably because Vettel is a proven 4-time world champion. There's a big difference between underperforming at the tail end of your career and underperforming at the start of your career. Schumacher wasn't spectacular at Mercedes but there's no way you'd judge him the same as you would a relatively young driver.
    Vettel will go to a team in 2021 that is performing better than Ferrari in 2020 as opposed to Schumacher who went to a team(Mercedes) AFTER Ferrari that was performing okay with regards to shifting teams comparing Seb vs. Schumaccher.

    The question currently is, how will Seb perform in Aston Martin F1 vs Stroll. While one can say we are currently witnessing the decline of a 4x WDC at the moment......only time will tell if this statement is true at Aston Martin F1 for 2021.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Thank you. Any more news on this?
    All 3 FDA drivers got to drive the SF71-H to gain experience of the cars handling and software settings. No times were posted at the Fiorano track.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Vettel will go to a team in 2021 that is performing better than Ferrari in 2020 as opposed to Schumacher who went to a team(Mercedes) AFTER Ferrari that was performing okay with regards to shifting teams comparing Seb vs. Schumaccher.

    The question currently is, how will Seb perform in Aston Martin F1 vs Stroll. While one can say we are currently witnessing the decline of a 4x WDC at the moment......only time will tell if this statement is true at Aston Martin F1 for 2021.
    I would agree with what Heidfeld said, Vettel didn't decline much, it is just that Leclerc is much faster. We must remember that Vettel was fighting for the world championship just 2 years ago and you don't go from that level to absolute 0 in 2 years.
    "I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance." - Michael Schumacher

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Vettel will go to a team in 2021 that is performing better than Ferrari in 2020 as opposed to Schumacher who went to a team(Mercedes) AFTER Ferrari that was performing okay with regards to shifting teams comparing Seb vs. Schumaccher.

    The question currently is, how will Seb perform in Aston Martin F1 vs Stroll. While one can say we are currently witnessing the decline of a 4x WDC at the moment......only time will tell if this statement is true at Aston Martin F1 for 2021.
    Indeed, only time will tell.
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  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    I would agree with what Heidfeld said, Vettel didn't decline much, it is just that Leclerc is much faster. We must remember that Vettel was fighting for the world championship just 2 years ago and you don't go from that level to absolute 0 in 2 years.
    If it's simply a case of Leclerc being much faster than the 4xWDC Vettel, then he must be the best driver on track by a long way.
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    Seb lost years of mid track fighting to move up to the front . He was already there! I'm sure most drivers would take the 4 WDCs and $50 million pay at the cost of needing to sharpen up later on as is the case with Seb. The Ferrari car and some team decisions lately have to be to blamed for his being where he is points wise, and Charles I truly believe would be doing some #2 finishes also if he also got a little help from his car! Seb is not slacking off, the team is. Both drivers deserve better! 2 second or better pit stops will help allot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    If it's simply a case of Leclerc being much faster than the 4xWDC Vettel, then he must be the best driver on track by a long way.
    Vettel won his last title 7 years ago, with a subpar teammate and absolute rocket ship under his belt. When Vettel had won his 4th title, Hamilton was a 1xWDC. But now Hamilton on the verge becoming a 7xWDC while Vettel is still 4xWDC. Doesn't mean all of a sudden Hamilton has become a super driver, the only thing that changed is the car. Anyone can become a multiple WDC with an absoluter rocket ship, full team backing and an average/below-average teammates like Webber or Bottas.

    Also Nico being faster than Michael ≠ Rosberg was the best driver by a long way, Ricciardo beating Vettel in 2014 ≠ Ricciardo was the best driver on track that year. Judging a driver based on his number of titles alone is not the proper way to evaluate someone.

    If we take Vettel's 4xWDC's away, and only judge how he's been performing on track ever since Leclerc became his teammate, then it's quite clear that Leclerc is a far better driver than Vettel. Leclerc is beating Vettel in every category, wins, points, poles, podiums. And Vettel being a 4xWDC is not going to make any differences to his on track performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Vettel won his last title 7 years ago, with a subpar teammate and absolute rocket ship under his belt. When Vettel had won his 4th title, Hamilton was a 1xWDC. But now Hamilton on the verge becoming a 7xWDC while Vettel is still 4xWDC. Doesn't mean all of a sudden Hamilton has become a super driver, the only thing that changed is the car. Anyone can become a multiple WDC with an absoluter rocket ship, full team backing and an average/below-average teammates like Webber or Bottas.

    Also Nico being faster than Michael ≠ Rosberg was the best driver by a long way, Ricciardo beating Vettel in 2014 ≠ Ricciardo was the best driver on track that year. Judging a driver based on his number of titles alone is not the proper way to evaluate someone.

    If we take Vettel's 4xWDC's away, and only judge how he's been performing on track ever since Leclerc became his teammate, then it's quite clear that Leclerc is a far better driver than Vettel. Leclerc is beating Vettel in every category, wins, points, poles, podiums. And Vettel being a 4xWDC is not going to make any differences to his on track performance.
    Yeah but the thing is, with Leclerc and Vettel the car is the same, so taking your point into consideration, either Vettel was never really that good, or Leclerc is the best driver on the grid, or Vettel has gone down. (I reckon it's a combination.)

    Nico Rosberg is the only driver to beat Hamilton to the championship in equal machinery. Of course, that doesn't mean Nico is better than Hamilton, but that feat counts a lot in my books. Nico's championship for me is more valuable than many other championships for this reason alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntukza View Post
    Yeah but the thing is, with Leclerc and Vettel the car is the same, so taking your point into consideration, either Vettel was never really that good, or Leclerc is the best driver on the grid, or Vettel has gone down. (I reckon it's a combination.)

    Nico Rosberg is the only driver to beat Hamilton to the championship in equal machinery. Of course, that doesn't mean Nico is better than Hamilton, but that feat counts a lot in my books. Nico's championship for me is more valuable than many other championships for this reason alone.
    A better explanation should be that Vettel is still very fast but adaptability isn't his strength and that is the most important trait to handle a car like the SF1000 (the most difficult car to drive on the grid by a long shot).
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Charles is definitely adaptable and extracting everything he can out of this SF1000 compared to his team-mate.

    Charles podiums this year were not on merit. Drama(the faster cars) has to happen up front for Charles to get a podium this year in 2020.

    I'm not taking away Charles talent since currently he's got 57 points vs. Seb's 17 points (JEEEEZ ).
    I strongly disagree.
    A trait of a great driver is to be "there" when drama happens in a race, so no, everything he won was on his own merit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Vettel won his last title 7 years ago, with a subpar teammate and absolute rocket ship under his belt. When Vettel had won his 4th title, Hamilton was a 1xWDC. But now Hamilton on the verge becoming a 7xWDC while Vettel is still 4xWDC. Doesn't mean all of a sudden Hamilton has become a super driver, the only thing that changed is the car. Anyone can become a multiple WDC with an absoluter rocket ship, full team backing and an average/below-average teammates like Webber or Bottas.

    Also Nico being faster than Michael ≠ Rosberg was the best driver by a long way, Ricciardo beating Vettel in 2014 ≠ Ricciardo was the best driver on track that year. Judging a driver based on his number of titles alone is not the proper way to evaluate someone.

    If we take Vettel's 4xWDC's away, and only judge how he's been performing on track ever since Leclerc became his teammate, then it's quite clear that Leclerc is a far better driver than Vettel. Leclerc is beating Vettel in every category, wins, points, poles, podiums. And Vettel being a 4xWDC is not going to make any differences to his on track performance.
    Spot on....
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    Maranello, 30 September 2020 – This was a day to remember for Robert Shwartzman, Callum Ilott and Mick Schumacher at the Fiorano track. The Ferrari Driver Academy (FDA) students each had a run behind the wheel of a 2018 Ferrari SF71H to experience driving a Formula 1 car as part of the #RoadToF1 programme. Mick and Callum are scheduled to take part in the first free practice session for the Eifel Grand Prix on 9 October, with Alfa Romeo Racing and Haas F1 Team respectively, and Robert will make his Friday debut on 11 December at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix weekend.

    Robert. First up was Robert, who has three Formula 2 wins to his name so far this year. For the 21 year old Russian this was his very first time at the wheel of a Formula 1 car. He went out for an installation lap at 9.03 and twenty minutes later he began his first real run. The youngster, who has been part of the FDA since 2017, got off to a cautious start, but soon got the hang of the car and the track.

    Callum. Callum Ilott’s turn came at noon. The Englishman has been with the FDA since 2018 and is currently second in the Formula 2 series with three wins to his name. This was his first time at the wheel of a Ferrari, although the 21 year old from Cambridge had experienced a Ferrari-powered Formula 1 Alfa Romeo Racing C38 at last year’s post-Spanish GP test at the Barcelona Catalunya circuit. Ilott completed a good number of laps of the 2.976 km track, running at a constant pace; perfect preparation for his debut at the NŁrburgring.

    Mick. At 3pm, it was the turn of Mick Schumacher, the current Formula 2 championship leader, with two wins. The 21 year old German has been with the FDA since 2019 and this was not his first time at the wheel of a Ferrari. In 2019, he drove that year’s SF90 in Bahrain, also having a drive in the Alfa Romeo C38 at the same test. Mick also completed his programme, aimed at familiarising himself with a Formula 1 car, after so many races in the junior category over the past few months.

    Next appointment. There is now a long break in the Formula 2 calendar until the two rounds planned in Bahrain on 28 and 29 November and 5 and 6 December.

    Robert Shwartzman #35

    “I have dreamed of the day when I would drive a Formula 1 car for the first time ever since I was a little kid and finally today was the day. Driving this car was fantastic and great fun.

    The power is what strikes you most: when you accelerate the horsepower never seems to stop. The brakes are equally impressive: the car stops when it feels as though it’s too late to make the corner. Apart from the actual driving, it was also special to work with the team. There are a lot of them and they pay attention to every little detail. They really work at a very high level. Thanks to everyone who made this memorable day possible.”

    Callum Ilott #53

    “This was an unforgettable day. I’d already been able to drive a Formula 1 car last year, but today I was able to get to grips with the car with just ten days to go to my debut on a Grand Prix weekend. It was very useful and I thank Ferrari for giving me this opportunity.

    What struck me about the SF71H was its aero efficiency, which means you have grip levels you just don’t find in other categories. Then there’s the extreme power from the engine and instant braking.”

    Mick Schumacher #47

    “I would like to thank Ferrari and the FDA for giving me the opportunity to get behind the wheel of a hybrid-powered Formula 1 car, a few days before my debut at a Grand Prix weekend at the NŁrburgring. It was very useful to get used to all the procedures again, which are pretty complex and also with how a team works in this top level of the sport.

    A few weeks ago in Mugello, I was able to drive an F2004, an amazing car, but quite old fashioned now. Getting behind the wheel of a 2018 hybrid car allowed me to understand how important the electronics are for the Power Unit and how much progress Formula 1 has made in terms of aerodynamics.

    I can’t wait to jump into the cockpit in Germany and it will be nice to take part in a practice session for the first time in front of my home crowd. In the team, there are some mechanics who worked with my father and that will make the day even more special.”

    Marco Matassa Head of FDA Technical Department

    “I am very pleased with how today went. I’d like to thank the Scuderia Ferrari race team for its support, because in the middle of such a busy season, it’s no small matter to change the car configuration to suit the individual needs of all three drivers, while helping them get to grips with something as complex as a hybrid-powered Formula 1 car.

    On the technical front I’m happy with the way Mick, Callum and Robert quickly got used to the SF71H. For two of them this wasn’t their first time in a Formula 1 car, but even so it’s not easy to switch from the driving style demanded from a Formula 2 car to one best suited to Formula 1. The car has much more power, a significantly more sophisticated braking system and power steering that requires sensitivity and precision to use properly. However, they were all quick and immediately began running at a good pace. I believe the laps they did today will be very useful when Mick and Callum run on Friday at the NŁrburgring.

    On a purely emotional level, it was wonderful to see the lads in their red race suit in front of their Ferrari, posing for the group photo, especially with Robert who was having his very first drive in a Formula 1 car, which is an unforgettable moment for any driver.”
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    I strongly disagree.
    A trait of a great driver is to be "there" when drama happens in a race, so no, everything he won was on his own merit.
    So Monza 2020......Gasly, Sainz and Stroll won that race on merit then???

    Given Leclerc's car and given his talent, his talent trumps over the car. But the car is lacking performance when compared to it's rivals for 2020. So any podiums that Leclerc recieves for 2020 is NOT on merit due to the fact that drama for the faster cars (Mercedes, RedBull, Mclaren, Racing Point, and possibly Renault) happens.

    IF the car was on par with the Mercedes or RedBull or Mclaren and Leclerc went head-to-head with Lewis or Bottas, Max, Norris and won the race THEN that would be on merit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    So Monza 2020......Gasly, Sainz and Stroll won that race on merit then???

    Given Leclerc's car and given his talent, his talent trumps over the car. But the car is lacking performance when compared to it's rivals for 2020. So any podiums that Leclerc recieves for 2020 is NOT on merit due to the fact that drama for the faster cars (Mercedes, RedBull, Mclaren, Racing Point, and possibly Renault) happens.

    IF the car was on par with the Mercedes or RedBull or Mclaren and Leclerc went head-to-head with Lewis or Bottas, Max, Norris and won the race THEN that would be on merit.
    A driver should be able to take advantage of drama and get as many points as possible. That cannot be the case always, granted. But yes it is what it needs to be if they want to be in title contention.
    It really is that simple. You race along many drivers and you survive crashes and restart and what have you. Chequered flag falls and you are p2 or 3 or 7. Noone cares if the guy in front of you crashed or not. That position is won on merit because you raced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    A driver should be able to take advantage of drama and get as many points as possible. That cannot be the case always, granted. But yes it is what it needs to be if they want to be in title contention.
    It really is that simple. You race along many drivers and you survive crashes and restart and what have you. Chequered flag falls and you are p2 or 3 or 7. Noone cares if the guy in front of you crashed or not. That position is won on merit because you raced.

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    Well, I put emphasis on DNF's, crashes or a head-rest issue (Baku 2017) in the race to determine merit....especially for the slower cars whom get a podium finish.

    In 2020, IF no one crashes, no DNF's then that race , whatever the outcome, is won on merit and whatever the podium finish is.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Well, I put emphasis on DNF's, crashes or a head-rest issue (Baku 2017) in the race to determine merit....especially for the slower cars whom get a podium finish.

    In 2020, IF no one crashes, no DNF's then that race , whatever the outcome, is won on merit and whatever the podium finish is.
    Monaco 1996, 3 cars finished.
    Olivier Panis #1 with a Ligier Honda - Clearly not the best car.

    Did he win on merit? Of course he did.
    I know this is an extreme but goes to prove that you drive to survive and you drive to win, whether you drive a Ferrari or a Ligier.
    Yes,the rule is you have more chances (and logic dictates) you will win in a Ferrari.
    But hey, once in a blue moon, universe will bring it that you will win in a Ligier.

    Noone will tell you you did not win in merit because people retired, or crashed or what not.
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    Winning races in this 2020 season with your team mate as your biggest competitor in as good a car is for sure winning on driver merit. Throw Max in there if Bottas blinks too much!

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    Ya but that just makes winning too easy when it's between 2 cars and one driver is designated #2 and only gets a bone thrown to him once in a while too keep him happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Ya but that just makes winning too easy when it's between 2 cars and one driver is designated #2 and only gets a bone thrown to him once in a while too keep him happy.
    Lewis is driving to win against , Bottas, Max and any FIA rules that can stop him. Bottas swears he's not a#2 driver and can WDC . It's on him. I can't remember the last time Bottas blocked Max from getting the jump on Lewis . The only bone thrown at Bottas is $$$ ! His pay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Lewis is driving to win against , Bottas, Max and any FIA rules that can stop him. Bottas swears he's not a#2 driver and can WDC . It's on him. I can't remember the last time Bottas blocked Max from getting the jump on Lewis . The only bone thrown at Bottas is $$$ ! His pay!
    https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/09/...e-to-hamilton/

    Here, let me help you with your memory issues !
    It is said that too much alcohol can cause this :D
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  28. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/09/...e-to-hamilton/

    Here, let me help you with your memory issues !
    It is said that too much alcohol can cause this :D
    OK I read the https: , Bottas got used, tricked is the word. He was really mad about he results. He doesn't start a race as a#2 driver knowing whenever Lewis needs him to let him pass , Bottas has to move over. That's a #2 driver. I see your point like it or not he's a #2 if need be. I now need to throw a few down just to calm down!! Your fault !

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    Lewis will move over for bottas surely.. if his car fails or hell freezes over. Bottas will move over when asked or they will make it so for him
    The definition of rubenization ;)


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  30. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Lewis will move over for bottas surely.. if his car fails or hell freezes over. Bottas will move over when asked or they will make it so for him
    The definition of rubenization ;)


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    If Bottas wins this next race you will have to retract your post !!!!

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