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Thread: 2018 Singapore GP: Race

  1. #811
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    The only positive aspect at the moment is that F1 is returning to normal circuits and it will stay like that until the end of the season. No more typical street circuits (although Russia is almost one). Also another thing to remember. Even though Seb and the team has done a lot of mistakes (and Kimi in qualifying) some of the points we're behind come from the three races with the "special tyres". In Spain, France and the UK Merc outscored Ferrari by 27 points (31 in Spain, 6 in France and we got 10 back in the UK). And that includes having in mind that Kimi "knocked" Lewis at Silverstone. Seb scored 7 points more than Lewis. Without that "incident " Lewis could have won and scored 7 points more than Seb. That's a 14 point swing.

    Now looking at the remaining circuits and tyre compounds we should logically have a rather good chance to get back into the hunt. Pirelli will bring the softest tyres to Russia, Mexico and Abu Dhabi. Suzuka will not have the hard tyre. The USA and Brazil in the middle. Brazil IMHO is one step too hard. Se remaining compounds below.

    https://news.pirelli.com/global/en-w...2018-compounds

    The problem with Pirelli, and I've mentioned it before, is that the tyres are too hard in general. We don't get the forced two-stop races as promised. Only a few races have been like that. If teams knew the tyres would go off the cliff in races, no matter if drivers nurse them or not, then the true pace of each car/package would come into play more than it does now. Now the difference between nursing the tyres and one more pitstop is playing into the hands of the ones nursing the tyres. That's why Seb couldn't pit one more time in Singapore as he would never get back the time lost during the pitstop. If somehow the remaining races will force teams to do two pitstops no matter what then I believe we stand an ever bigger chance to score good results compared to Merc.

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    The only positive aspect at the moment is that F1 is returning to normal circuits and it will stay like that until the end of the season. No more typical street circuits (although Russia is almost one). Also another thing to remember. Even though Seb and the team has done a lot of mistakes (and Kimi in qualifying) some of the points we're behind come from the three races with the "special tyres". In Spain, France and the UK Merc outscored Ferrari by 27 points (31 in Spain, 6 in France and we got 10 back in the UK). And that includes having in mind that Kimi "knocked" Lewis at Silverstone. Seb scored 7 points more than Lewis. Without that "incident " Lewis could have won and scored 7 points more than Seb. That's a 14 point swing.

    Now looking at the remaining circuits and tyre compounds we should logically have a rather good chance to get back into the hunt. Pirelli will bring the softest tyres to Russia, Mexico and Abu Dhabi. Suzuka will not have the hard tyre. The USA and Brazil in the middle. Brazil IMHO is one step too hard. Se remaining compounds below.

    https://news.pirelli.com/global/en-w...2018-compounds

    The problem with Pirelli, and I've mentioned it before, is that the tyres are too hard in general. We don't get the forced two-stop races as promised. Only a few races have been like that. If teams knew the tyres would go off the cliff in races, no matter if drivers nurse them or not, then the true pace of each car/package would come into play more than it does now. Now the difference between nursing the tyres and one more pitstop is playing into the hands of the ones nursing the tyres. That's why Seb couldn't pit one more time in Singapore as he would never get back the time lost during the pitstop. If somehow the remaining races will force teams to do two pitstops no matter what then I believe we stand an ever bigger chance to score good results compared to Merc.
    You are presuming everything stays static, which it doesn't.

    Merc seem to have improved how their cars uses their tyres.
    Whilst Ferrari in search of performance seem to have gone backward.

  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    You are presuming everything stays static, which it doesn't.

    Merc seem to have improved how their cars uses their tyres.
    Whilst Ferrari in search of performance seem to have gone backward.
    I believe that even in Singapore if Seb could have pushed more then he wouldn't have found himself behind the Force India and then he would have been infront of Max once Max made his stop. If he then could have pushed even further because of knowing everybody would have to pit one more time then he may have been closer to Lewis. Kimi would also have put a lot more pressure on Bottas if he could have pushed on a softer compound for some 20 laps. Look how many laps Kimi did on the hypers only because he was nursing them. That shouldn't be possible. Every car should have been forced to pit one more time. It doesn't happen because the tyres are too hard, even the softest ones. A possible last stint when everyone would be on hypers or at least on ultra softs would have been a lot more exciting. I blame Pirelli for this. They've made the tyres too hard. The hard tyre has only been used once (by two Renaults at Silverstone) and will not bu used again. The super hard will never be used.

    True Merc seem to have made progress on the softest compounds without losing pace on the softs or mediums but that can still swing the other way later. Especially if teams are forced to make two pitstops. Right now with one pitstop Merc seem to have the upper hand. If Russia and Japan are one-stoppers then it will be very difficult for our package to get everything out of it. We need "sprint stints".

  4. #814
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    Yeah, I agree, Hypersoft Gasly had them 27 laps, and Ultrasofts Leclerc 40 laps and Ericsson 45 laps. Not even Soft needed.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    Oh my god are you a dragon too? That's why mine says also, lol
    Oh no. Dracos make me scared speechless. Hopefully these Tarot and Channeling lessons will help me cope with it.

  6. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimiBot View Post
    Yeah, I agree, Hypersoft Gasly had them 27 laps, and Ultrasofts Leclerc 40 laps and Ericsson 45 laps. Not even Soft needed.
    Leclerc & Ericsson were on HS 1st stint for almost 27-30Laps then changed to US.
    Ferrari shouldn’t have triggered call for pit stop, it was too early. Problem is strategy team is not listening to its drivers at all. When vettel he can do target time on US in q2, strategy engineer replied need to get in for HS. Team need to show faith on driver first. Look at ham, team asks him to do a target lap he will do it. Team will allow him to do, they have confidence on him.
    Likewise ferrari team should believe its drivers first.

  7. #817
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    correct me if i'm wrong, but I see Sochi more as a Merc track unfortunately.

  8. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Leclerc & Ericsson were on HS 1st stint for almost 27-30Laps then changed to US.
    Ferrari shouldn’t have triggered call for pit stop, it was too early. Problem is strategy team is not listening to its drivers at all. When vettel he can do target time on US in q2, strategy engineer replied need to get in for HS. Team need to show faith on driver first. Look at ham, team asks him to do a target lap he will do it. Team will allow him to do, they have confidence on him.
    Likewise ferrari team should believe its drivers first.
    The worst part, I can't believe no one checked on the Force India, did no one realise that he'd come out behind it.

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    Leclerc & Ericsson were on HS 1st stint for almost 27-30Laps then changed to US.
    Yeah, but no. Start from 01:21:00 Alonso and Leclerc pits lap 39-40 and Ericsson 5-6 laps later.

    http://mygoodstream.pw/espn/espnreplay.php?game=3429817

  10. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    64 points Vettel & Ferrari have lost up to Singapore; and thats a conservative figure. This does not include the penalty with Sainz in Austria. Hamilton currently leads by 40pts.


    Ferrari have to take as much responsibility as Vettel for their 2018 implosion

    A series of driving errors have been made by Sebastian Vettel – but Ferrari have made many blunders on strategy which has heaped even more pressure on the German driver. Has it cost them a run at the championship in the closing stages of the season again? It seems so.

    After another massively frustrating event in Singapore for Sebastian Vettel and Scuderia Ferrari, the question is: Is the championship over? The answer would seem to be yes at present – and they only need to look internally to find where the blame lies.

    Vettel’s mistakes

    There has been a number of mistakes by the German in 2018 so far and it’s quite surprising for a four-time World Champion.

    The first slip up Vettel made was in Baku. Following a Safety Car after the collision between the Red Bulls, he found himself behind Bottas. On the resumption, he tried a move down the inside but locked up and ran wide. It was a brave attempt and a real racer will always try to win as he did. However, he lost positions to Hamilton, Raikkonen and Perez to finish 4th.

    Possible points lost: 13 (If he’d taken the lead and avoided the debris unlike Bottas)

    France was a costly error by the four-time champion. A great launch off the line saw him in the tow of Hamilton but he couldn’t go anywhere as Bottas was boxing him in. He then ran into the Finn at turn one and damaged his front wing. A good recovery from the back of the pack gave him a P5 finish; it should have been a better result than that, though.

    Possible points lost: 6-8

    Vettel’s biggest mistake of the season came at the German Grand Prix. He converted pole position into a comfortable lead and look set to win in front of his home crowd. Yet, heartbreak would follow. As a light shower fell, he made the smallest mistake at T12, ended up in the gravel and out of the race.

    To compound the misery, Lewis Hamilton won from P14 on the grid and gained 25 points on his German rival.

    Possible points lost: 25

    Italy was another race of extraordinary frustration for Vettel. He outqualified Lewis Hamilton but saw team-mate Kimi Raikkonen take pole position. With Raikkonen knowing he would be out of Ferrari team at the end of 2018, the Finn went out and raced for himself.

    Vettel tried into the first chicane but Raikkonen closed the door. He thought about a move into the second chicane but the Finn covered the middle of the road. Hamilton took his opportunity and went around the outside of his title rival. He left space for the German but small contact resulted in a spin for Vettel.

    Again, like France, he drove through the field nicely with a damaged car and rescued a 4th place finish. Once again, he lost a probable win because of his own error. Ferrari would have surely swapped their drivers around at some stage.

    Possible points lost: 6-13



    Ferrari’s errors

    It’s been a season of bad strategic choices for the men in red on the pit wall and they’ve life much more difficult for their drivers. It’s been the case for a long time and it has continued in 2018

    China was the first event where the team let Vettel down. He pulled a nice 3s lead to Bottas in the opening stint but then Mercedes triggered the undercut. Vettel pitted a lap later but the power of the undercut around Shanghai meant the Finn leapt ahead and into the lead.

    Vettel, like Bottas, had just exited the final corner before the safety car was deployed for debris at the hairpin. Ferrari is blameless on this part. However, he should never have ended up behind Bottas and eventually got hit by Verstappen as he finished 8th.

    It’s likely Ricciardo and Verstappen would have overtaken him anyway even if he was in the lead, but a bad call on strategy cost him valuable points and potentially avoiding the collision caused by Verstappen.

    Possible points lost: 11

    At one stage in Hungary, Vettel had enough of an advantage over Bottas to overcut him and jump up into 2nd to try and chase down Hamilton down for the victory. It would have required quite a long stint but at least he could have possibly had a go at Hamilton at some stage.

    Yet, Ferrari extended the first stint and he got stuck behind Sainz who didn’t get out of the way despite many blue flags getting waved at him. Vettel returned to the track with the Finn’s Mercedes in front and only in the closing stages could he get through to take 2nd place.

    In reality, it may have cost them nothing, but it blew any chance of Vettel trying to pressure Hamilton. The strategists were far too slow to react.

    Finally, we reach yesterday’s race in Singapore. A disappointing qualifying on Saturday meant Vettel found himself down in 3rd, 0.6s off Hamilton’s amazing pole lap.

    He rectified some of that disappointment with a nice move on Verstappen down into T7 on the opening lap of the race. Unfortunately for him, another strategy blunder occurred.

    They pitted the German at the end of lap 14 to try and undercut Hamilton and put on ultrasofts. However, this completely backfired. He got stuck behind Sergio Perez for a whole and lost the second position to Verstappen after the Dutchman boxed on lap 17. A 47-lap stint on the ultras was something that seemed impossible but he managed to make it. The softs proved to be a better, far more durable tyre. Yet again, his team let him down.

    Possible points lost: 3

    Mercedes have not been perfect as we saw in Australia and Austria, but they’ve done a far better job overall.

    Conclusion

    What has been written above doesn’t even include errors made by the team in qualifying sessions this year or the last number of years. A perfect example is Australia 2016.

    Following the scary shunt between Fernando Alonso and Esteban Gutierrez, Ferrari could have put mediums on Vettel’s car like the Mercedes’ did and he would have won the race. Instead, he was on supersofts and had to pit again which left him down in 3rd -and that’s where he finished.

    Inaki Rueda has been Ferraris Chief Strategist since March 2015 and you would have to say there has been a lot of errors since he was appointed. This doesn’t even include the number of horrible strategies Kimi Raikkonen has been given.

    Arrivabene’s leadership is also coming under scrutiny; one wonders if it’s time for Mattia Binotto to take the reins with the famous Italian team.

    Binotto’s worked his way up and after becoming Chief Operating Officer, Power Unit, Ferrari made huge strides forward with the PU and are neck and neck with the Mercedes in this department after a huge gap in 2014. Ferrari made him Chief Technical Officer two years later. The Italian squad has made big gains in all areas and Binotto deserves a good bit of credit for this.

    Changes are needed and better leadership is required – and he looks to be the best option inside the Ferrari team. At 49, he’s at a prime age to fill this big position.

    Vettel has thrown away many points and should be leading the championship. Yet, you can’t solely put the blame on him. While he deserves some criticism for some of his mistakes, his team have really let him down and are equally culpable at the very least.

    As respected F1 journalist Mark Hughes wrote on Twitter on Saturday: Vettel again having to combine running Ferrari pit operations with driving. It’s simply not good enough for a driver in a big team that they need to worry about strategies while managing so many things in the cockpit in the race.

    Like the Schumacher – Brawn combination, Ferrari need a strategist who can work well with Vettel and let the German concentrate on the driving.

    Despite building a great package (which they deserve a lot of credit for), it seems this year championships are gone. Ferrari, like Sebastian Vettel has, need to only blame themselves. The Tifosi look like they have been let down again.

    https://www.motorlat.com/notas/espec...2018-implosion

  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong, but I see Sochi more as a Merc track unfortunately.
    Last year it was Ferrari’s track but bottas got good slip stream. Ham struggled on this track

  12. #822
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    Interesting article for those who like WHAT IF....
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...8-looks-errors

  13. #823
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    Tin Foil Hat Time

    I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the ineptitude of Ferrari's pit wall is so staggering, I have to wonder if any of it is intentional... It's not like we haven't seen cheating, scandals, and ethical misconduct in F1 in the past. Who know if Mercedes isn't paying someone off on the Ferrari pit wall to intentionally make the wrong call. Pitting Vettel that early in Singapore was just so irretrievably stupid, especially after Vettel disagreed. I mean, how could Hamilton's tires possibly been shot after 10 parade laps???


    Disappointed Since 2010

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefa View Post
    Interesting article for those who like WHAT IF....
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...8-looks-errors
    LOL and you could apply the same IF's to Merc mostly, rather pointless.
    Forza Ferrari

  15. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Tin Foil Hat Time

    I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the ineptitude of Ferrari's pit wall is so staggering, I have to wonder if any of it is intentional... It's not like we haven't seen cheating, scandals, and ethical misconduct in F1 in the past. Who know if Mercedes isn't paying someone off on the Ferrari pit wall to intentionally make the wrong call. Pitting Vettel that early in Singapore was just so irretrievably stupid, especially after Vettel disagreed. I mean, how could Hamilton's tires possibly been shot after 10 parade laps???
    Are they paying Vettel off as Well?

  16. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    Are they paying Vettel off as Well?
    In Vettel's defense, the strategists are not piloting the wall at 200+ miles per hour.


    Disappointed Since 2010

  17. #827
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    My apologies guy's a little bit off topic. What really upsets me the most is the biased commentary from sky sports. I know Lewis is british, but f1 sky sports commentators needs to be more professional and considered in their approach on live television. Yes i'm a ferrari fan, but why all the bashing against this wonderful team in a wonderful sport. I really am disapointed and gutted that i have to listen to this biased commentry every race weekend. I feel crofty, martin and co, has taken this to a ultimate low in sports commentary around the world and never have been subjected to this form of commentary in any other sport. I do hope bbc has some inquiry into this, because it has now gone to far. Hoping for things to change in the near future.

  18. #828
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    In short, a bad choice, but now that Brackley have corrected the defects of the W09 as they hope in the Reparto Corse to regain the technical leadership? Mattia Binotto does not seem worried: the SF71H has suffered a misstep in Marina Bay, but there are other developments coming for the final rush ...
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  19. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by PURE PASSION View Post
    i'm glad Mattia Binotto seems confident about the final push of upgrades....let's hope they'll work as intended and that both Seb and the pit wall strategists will also be on top of their game

    it's DO or DIE in the last 6 races

    Forza Ferrari
    So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  20. #830
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    This is where MA is most at fault. SV and KR should have been instructed on how to deal with any possible scenario at the start. The focus had to be on keeping the Mercedes cars behind them. The finish order could have been orchestrated much later in the race. Yes, these racers all want to win, but F1 is a TEAM sport and they are employed by the team. SF failed immensely by not planning the start properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post

    Italy was another race of extraordinary frustration for Vettel. He outqualified Lewis Hamilton but saw team-mate Kimi Raikkonen take pole position. With Raikkonen knowing he would be out of Ferrari team at the end of 2018, the Finn went out and raced for himself.

    Vettel tried into the first chicane but Raikkonen closed the door. He thought about a move into the second chicane but the Finn covered the middle of the road. Hamilton took his opportunity and went around the outside of his title rival. He left space for the German but small contact resulted in a spin for Vettel.

  21. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hajj View Post
    This is where MA is most at fault. SV and KR should have been instructed on how to deal with any possible scenario at the start. The focus had to be on keeping the Mercedes cars behind them. The finish order could have been orchestrated much later in the race. Yes, these racers all want to win, but F1 is a TEAM sport and they are employed by the team. SF failed immensely by not planning the start properly.
    [Qualifying] Kimi took advantage of the tow, Seb did'nt. Remember? "We talk later" (Meaning "Why did you send me out behind Lewis??")

    Lewis "tapped" Seb from behind coming out of the first turn; it's in the 2nd chicane(T3 & T4) where Vettel should have positioned himself outside but Lewis pounced on the opening (T3)knowing full well he was going to be on the inside of T4

    MA said he was not going to give "team orders" at the start but rather later in the race to make the switch.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hajj View Post
    This is where MA is most at fault. SV and KR should have been instructed on how to deal with any possible scenario at the start. The focus had to be on keeping the Mercedes cars behind them. The finish order could have been orchestrated much later in the race. Yes, these racers all want to win, but F1 is a TEAM sport and they are employed by the team. SF failed immensely by not planning the start properly.
    100% dude
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  23. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong, but I see Sochi more as a Merc track unfortunately.
    i think you right, mercs have gone all out since last year to make their car work on these tight tracks and have surpassed ferrari, ferrari had an advantage there last year because of the tyres and shorter wheelbase. this point in the season GPS data showed mercs are the faster than ferrari in all slow corners and they are able to get all tyres to work either by depleting the heat or creating heat into them using their new clever rims that rb have used too. wolf said ferrari have a small advantage out of corners via engine/battery but mercs have much better top speed now. plus mercs have somehow figured a way to make their tyres last supremely long without losing pace, looking at bottas at Monza and Ham at singpore. Kimi out in clean air during the first stint in Monza had to pit first, whilse Ham went on to set new FL on old set
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  24. #834
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    My love for the sport is so high that I still like to continue,
    but I don’t see any reason to fix myself too early. © MS

  25. #835
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    I hope Leclerc knows F1 esp. Ferrari is a team sport and he's employed, paid, by the team. I feel sorry for him. He is showing great potential being left to race. It seems the German has "The Team" in his pocket win or not. If left to race we fans will never really know how the Fin would have done. Meanwhile WoW! what a thought, I read that perhaps Merc is paying the German to not do it.

  26. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I hope Leclerc knows F1 esp. Ferrari is a team sport and he's employed, paid, by the team. I feel sorry for him. He is showing great potential being left to race. It seems the German has "The Team" in his pocket win or not. If left to race we fans will never really know how the Fin would have done. Meanwhile WoW! what a thought, I read that perhaps Merc is paying the German to not do it.
    Vettel is far from having the team in his pocket. You think if he did they would have allowed Kimi to qualify in front at Monza? Their home track? No way on earth. Plus Leclerc is coming with the blessing of Marchionne, has the son of Jean Todt as a manager, is young and more eager to win + more daring to take risks (same a Verstappen) which comes with the young age.

    Driving for Ferrari is every drivers dream but also the most difficult as you answer to the fans, the media and the whole of Italy not just your team boss. Ferrari is religion in Italy. I was just reading an article about Agnelli's son (the current owner of Ferrari) and he was saying they want to win in style. The comment leaves a lot to think of. There's Leclerc and Giovinazzi being groomed up for the official cars. As odd as it may sound Ferrari have shown weirdly enough in the past that if they don't have a "special" driver they give up on the title. Ex. Irvine when Schumi had a broke leg, Massa vs Lewis and so on. There is a gut feeling that the love story between Vettel and Ferrari is coming to an end and next year we might get confirmation if Leclerc starts to match or better him.

  27. #837
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    Well said! By " In His pocket " I was only referring to the German having #`1 spot secured for 2019 regardless of this years results. I surely can be and hope I am mistaken. Leclerc needs to be free to race IMO.

  28. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    Leclerc needs to be free to race IMO.
    Not happening for 2019.......UNLESS....the points gap between Ferrari and Mercedes is significant enough to allow both Ferrari drivers to race.....which most likely MIGHT happen in the latter part of the season; until then, LeClerc will "support" Vettel.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  29. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Not happening for 2019.......UNLESS....the points gap between Ferrari and Mercedes is significant enough to allow both Ferrari drivers to race.....which most likely MIGHT happen in the latter part of the season; until then, LeClerc will "support" Vettel.
    How can you be so sure about this?

  30. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    Vettel is far from having the team in his pocket. You think if he did they would have allowed Kimi to qualify in front at Monza? Their home track? No way on earth.
    Allowed Kimi? You don't think if Vettel could have gone faster he would have done.

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