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Thread: 2018 Japanese GP: Race

  1. #421
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    A race to forget for Ferrari. Max managed to tangle with both our cars, though with Seb, it was sebs fault IMO. Got too ambitious.
    And by the look of things, we seem to have given up on the WDC though SV is trying to put on a brave face and keeps reiterating that all is not lost and its not over till its over. Kudos for that!

    I dont get why some ppl are saying Merc is getting an advantage and favouritism from FIA. We are just being salty here. Lets face it, Merc have done a better job after the summer break. Up until then, we had clearly the faster car. But now they are a couple of tenths ahead.
    A bit worried about next year now. One pilot is a fresher so to speak (though he is very very good and is a promising future). And how much confidence does SEB have on the team and vice-versa? Unless our 2019 challenger is clearly faster, we are going to be seeing more of this... ie., mistakes from both the team and SV.
    Silently, like a shadow

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariSteve View Post
    You are correct to say it's our fault to some extent, Seb has made FAR too many mistakes this year, utterly throwing masses of points away, but that said you cannot deny Merc get away with so much and get so much "help", because they are buddy buddies with the FIA, Whiting and most importantly Pirelli.

    This whole Merc domination phase started back when they had a hidden (and illegal) Tyre test with Pirelli and since then Pirelli have been bending over backwards to help Merc and keep them at the top.
    So all this domination is due to 1 tyre test? Come on stop trying to hide behind the truth.
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So all this domination is due to 1 tyre test? Come on stop trying to hide behind the truth.
    Agree. My vision of truth is that Ferrari, as a team is not doing it's job as supposed to do. Simply they are not in the same league as Mercedes. For the time being their best is just not good enough....

  4. #424
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    Seb made a costly move. Yes there were overtakes done at 130R but Seb made the overtake with the Williams (Stroll to say the least and hardly a racer) compared to Max (yeah, like he's not going to defend and make you earn your spot). It's called risk assessment and it pertains to who it is your overtaking. Max, you overtake him on the straight prior to 130R.

    Then you had Ricciardo (Driver of the Day) with clear concise and patient overtakes...outbraking his opponents with a so-so PU. Someone mentioned earlier this was going to be a procession race...maybe for the top 2 but the midfield was awash in overtakes.....the last 10 laps is where it settled down.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  5. #425
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  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo_spook View Post
    Have you only just started watching F1?
    Stupid question, but that's par for the course around here.

  7. #427
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    By the way, the permutation for Austin is the same for Hamilton to win the championship as it was in 2015 over Vettel. In other words, Vettel is just as far away this year as 2015.



    Let that sink in

  8. #428
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    Maurizio Arrivabene: ”After what happened in qualifying, today the team and the drivers fought back well. The podium could have been within our grasp, but unfortunately, damage on both cars, as a result of collisions in the race, affected the final result. Regardless of what is now a very difficult situation in terms of the championship, we will tackle the coming races giving them our best shot, maintaining concentration and determination.”

    Kimi Raikkonen: ”After the contact with Max I saw some parts flying off my car; it was damaged pretty badly on the left hand side. Obviously, this affected negatively the rest of my race. What happened is unfortunate and after that it was pretty difficult to drive on. I had lost a lot of downforce, but there was not much I could do. It’s impossible to know what our performance would have been without that accident at the chicane; we had improved the car over the weekend, it was getting better and better, but unfortunately this is what we have got today. It’s been a difficult and poor weekend overall, the result is not ideal. Now we need to look deeply on everything and hopefully we’ll come back at the next race on a more normal situation where we’ll be able to fight.”

    Sebastian Vettel: ”Today, I found it quite inspirational walking through the garage and watching the guys work! All the team is fired up and that certainly helps, as the last couple of weeks haven’t been that easy. The spirit is unbroken despite everything. Races like this are a bit of a hand-over and we know it is difficult from where we are in the point standings, but we don’t have much to lose. We have given everything so far and I believe there’s still something we can learn and understand from the car. So we keep fighting and resisting and we’ll see what the other races bring. As for the collision with Max, I was obviously pushing to pass, I knew he had a penalty, but I also felt that we were fast. I could see that his battery was clipping, while I had saved some energy from mine. I saw a gap and went for it on the inside, he obviously tried to defend and I couldn’t go anywhere, so we touched. However, this is part of racing.”
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  9. #429
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    So concentration and determination is what MA has to say. That's nice.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note9 using Tapatalk

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Stupid question, but that's par for the course around here.
    Maybe don't make a statement that shows a complete lack of knowledge about F1 and then stupid questions wouldn't be asked.

  11. #431
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    seb to team after the race

    "If I don't go for that gap and the gap was there, might as well stay at home"
    https://twitter.com/F1/status/104889...and-Prix-video
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  12. #432
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    Sebs a racer. Respect to him for trying. Thing i was thinking about on a bike ride, if Lewis or Max would of made the same move, with the same result. I bet, SKYF1, would of said, well he is a racer, he went for a pass and the driver in front should of left more room and saw him.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    So all this domination is due to 1 tyre test? Come on stop trying to hide behind the truth.
    No.. jeez. c'mon you know what I'm saying.. the illegal tyre test was the START of it.
    Common doesn't mean "Come on"; "Should have" not "Should of" ;)

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Sebs a racer. Respect to him for trying. Thing i was thinking about on a bike ride, if Lewis or Max would have made the same move, with the same result. I bet, SKYF1, would have said, well he is a racer, he went for a pass and the driver in front should have left more room and saw him.
    You're right 100%, they would! (although tbh Seb knew Max had a penalty.. he should have been more patient)
    Last edited by FerrariSteve; 7th October 2018 at 17:48. Reason: grammar corrections
    Common doesn't mean "Come on"; "Should have" not "Should of" ;)

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariSteve View Post
    No.. jeez. c'mon you know what I'm saying.. the illegal tyre test was the START of it.
    So what has continued it? What has the FIA done to prevent us and others being better? Are the FIA to blame for the many mistakes made this season?
    Forza Ferrari

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    agreed with him, i wanted full force attack by seb & kimi no pension driving, so im still bizarrely happy how quick he was at the start. but last 10 laps was the only time cars started using there actual speed instead of saving tyres the entire race
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  17. #437
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    Got a feeling MA or atleast the blunder crew under him will be replaced or come under pressure of being replaced depending on first two races next year, if we still got no speed to beat mercs or if we still giving drivers zero trust then for sure i think someone in fiat or ferrari will finally start the change in personnel thats needed
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Stupid question, but that's par for the course around here.
    As an aside and as a fellow UK tifoso (I assume you are a genuine tifoso as well as a recent TSN member), I find this forum full of disagreement and unpleasantness lately between each other, probably due to the stresses and strains of supporting our troubled team, but please let's be a bit more civil to each other. Likewise about our team and drivers who have all dropped the ball at times this year and we live in hope that they have learnt some lessons, but sad to say that we have been comprehensively outclassed by Merc and their drivers since Monza. We're all gutted and it hurts, but we're bigger than that.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    As an aside and as a fellow UK tifoso (I assume you are a genuine tifoso as well as a recent TSN member), I find this forum full of disagreement and unpleasantness lately between each other, probably due to the stresses and strains of supporting our troubled team, but please let's be a bit more civil to each other. Likewise about our team and drivers who have all dropped the ball at times this year and we live in hope that they have learnt some lessons, but sad to say that we have been comprehensively outclassed by Merc and their drivers since Monza. We're all gutted and it hurts, but we're bigger than that.
    Are you kidding me?!?!?!

    F1 is a boring crap fest now and Ferrari w/ Seb Vettel look like a supreme joke.

    The only thing entertaining anymore is thescuderia.net forums.

    I didn't watch one bit of the race today (haven't watched a minute of F1 since Kimi didn't run Hammy off the track when he got passed at the end of Monza), but I come here every week to enjoy the fun, popcorn and all!

  20. #440
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    It could be worse I guess at least we're ahead of McLaren spit....
    I wonder if the SF downturn has any link to the ERS investigation in may
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  21. #441
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    It is odd how we seem to have gone backwards in performance terms since half-term. Maybe we took our eyes off the ball and perhaps Mercedes focused even harder. I don't know.

    I do recognise, however, that both VET and the team have made too many errors and HAM and the Mercs have made almost none, certainly recently. RAI has tended to go backwards at the start and has not often been much use as far as backing up Seb is concerned.

    The loss of Marchionne does seem to have been a blow as I think he really did kick when it was needed. It's what's needed now and I don't know where it's going to come from..

    We're doomed, Cap'n Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye!

  22. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    As an aside and as a fellow UK tifoso (I assume you are a genuine tifoso as well as a recent TSN member), I find this forum full of disagreement and unpleasantness lately between each other, probably due to the stresses and strains of supporting our troubled team, but please let's be a bit more civil to each other. Likewise about our team and drivers who have all dropped the ball at times this year and we live in hope that they have learnt some lessons, but sad to say that we have been comprehensively outclassed by Merc and their drivers since Monza. We're all gutted and it hurts, but we're bigger than that.
    Sad but true!
    We're doomed, Cap'n Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye!

  23. #443
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    Despite the poor result in terms of the championship, I thoroughly enjoyed this race. I think Seb has accepted defeat and can now focus on learning from this year and getting back into his groove.

    I believe his risk assessment on his attempt to pass Max was justifiable because honestly he was making great moves up to then and the car was quick. We all know Max is not going to give his position easily anywhere but he literally needs to be run off the road and I hope it bites him in the future when he is racing for the championship and someone knocks him out. Karma will be sweet when this happens but until then I think Seb's attempt was justifiable:

    1. He needed to win to keep his title hopes alive
    2. Waiting for the pit stop would mean losing time every lap to HAM
    3. The best chance to pass was probably into the last chicane but that was very predictable and Max would be defending like no tomorrow anyways so:
    4. He had the battery charge over Max and knew he could sneak up to him at spoon, somewhere max wouldn't expect as much.

    Seb did the best Seb could do. Every experience counts and this should help him for next year as he will better know his limits.

    Lets now fully face it, Germany was the turning point. We have never fully recovered since and it has gone down hill from there. We need to regroup and again make some changes. We also lost our chief SM and the consequences of it have been grave. With strong determination we can win again, but we need to make some bold changes.

    After this race, I absolutely see the need for a team re-shuffling, and it should very much happen now, not 3 months from now. At worst we need to see some step changes before the last race so that we can start to sort these issues sooner for next year. Whenever there is changes in the team it takes time to adapt. If we wait until the winter to make all our changes we will be going into the new year with both feet behind whereas making a few changes as we go starting now we might only have 1 foot behind us.

    (Side note 1) Regarding risk assessment: HAM has learnt a long time ago to not take so much risk, he keeps his racing very clean 90% of the time, his passes usually very precise but probably a bit boring, whereas Seb still goes for it. Having said that, who would I rather watch in a battle, Seb or Ham? 100% Seb everytime. That is why I still believe F1 needs to find a way to promote "racing" and not just having the fastest car so that you can leisurly drive to the finish line in 1st.

    (Side note 2)Regarding only the fastest car winning which is boring and promotes more risk management: F1 has a huge cost problem, there seems to be no way to keep costs low. Do you guys think by creating more risk and less predictability we could lower costs. For example, right now it seems you need to spend $500 million to have a 90% chance of being in the top 2. What if we change the way races are held somehow so that having the fastest car only gives a 75% chance of taking the top 2. This way it may not be as justified to spend $500 million for only a 75% chance. Just like a lottery, if you have a 90% chance of winning you will be more willing to throw so much money (especially if you have a lot of it) at it than if your odds are less. How that could be done is beyond me, but somehow we have to make it so that spending more does not mean a for sure win or podium at the end of the race. Maybe we could start by changing qualifying, it seems wrong but maybe qualifying 1st gives you less of an advantage. Instead of being the first on the line, maybe you get the fastest tire to start the race but you have to start in reverse order. At the end of the day, it will make it more difficult for the faster cars, which seems unfair but it would promote the teams to spend less because it may not be as important to have the fastest car anymore. This may also have a knock on effect to making sure the driver is more important, which means it is more likely the best drivers actually make it to F1 and not just how much money they bring.

    Looking forward to Austin! Always believe.

    Forza Ferrari!

  24. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariDave View Post
    (Side note 1) Regarding risk assessment: HAM has learnt a long time ago to not take so much risk, he keeps his racing very clean 90% of the time, his passes usually very precise but probably a bit boring, whereas Seb still goes for it. Having said that, who would I rather watch in a battle, Seb or Ham? 100% Seb everytime. That is why I still believe F1 needs to find a way to promote "racing" and not just having the fastest car so that you can leisurly drive to the finish line in 1st.
    Forza Ferrari!
    When Lewis first entered F1, he was very like Max, going for the tightest gap, late braking. After 2011 and with time he has changed as a racer, he no longer lunges etc

    As you mentioned it will be very interesting when Max is in a wdc car, will he lose it due to his recklessness

  25. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariDave View Post
    Despite the poor result in terms of the championship, I thoroughly enjoyed this race. I think Seb has accepted defeat and can now focus on learning from this year and getting back into his groove.

    I believe his risk assessment on his attempt to pass Max was justifiable because honestly he was making great moves up to then and the car was quick. We all know Max is not going to give his position easily anywhere but he literally needs to be run off the road and I hope it bites him in the future when he is racing for the championship and someone knocks him out. Karma will be sweet when this happens but until then I think Seb's attempt was justifiable:

    1. He needed to win to keep his title hopes alive
    2. Waiting for the pit stop would mean losing time every lap to HAM
    3. The best chance to pass was probably into the last chicane but that was very predictable and Max would be defending like no tomorrow anyways so:
    4. He had the battery charge over Max and knew he could sneak up to him at spoon, somewhere max wouldn't expect as much.

    Seb did the best Seb could do. Every experience counts and this should help him for next year as he will better know his limits.

    Lets now fully face it, Germany was the turning point. We have never fully recovered since and it has gone down hill from there. We need to regroup and again make some changes. We also lost our chief SM and the consequences of it have been grave. With strong determination we can win again, but we need to make some bold changes.

    After this race, I absolutely see the need for a team re-shuffling, and it should very much happen now, not 3 months from now. At worst we need to see some step changes before the last race so that we can start to sort these issues sooner for next year. Whenever there is changes in the team it takes time to adapt. If we wait until the winter to make all our changes we will be going into the new year with both feet behind whereas making a few changes as we go starting now we might only have 1 foot behind us.

    (Side note 1) Regarding risk assessment: HAM has learnt a long time ago to not take so much risk, he keeps his racing very clean 90% of the time, his passes usually very precise but probably a bit boring, whereas Seb still goes for it. Having said that, who would I rather watch in a battle, Seb or Ham? 100% Seb everytime. That is why I still believe F1 needs to find a way to promote "racing" and not just having the fastest car so that you can leisurly drive to the finish line in 1st.

    (Side note 2)Regarding only the fastest car winning which is boring and promotes more risk management: F1 has a huge cost problem, there seems to be no way to keep costs low. Do you guys think by creating more risk and less predictability we could lower costs. For example, right now it seems you need to spend $500 million to have a 90% chance of being in the top 2. What if we change the way races are held somehow so that having the fastest car only gives a 75% chance of taking the top 2. This way it may not be as justified to spend $500 million for only a 75% chance. Just like a lottery, if you have a 90% chance of winning you will be more willing to throw so much money (especially if you have a lot of it) at it than if your odds are less. How that could be done is beyond me, but somehow we have to make it so that spending more does not mean a for sure win or podium at the end of the race. Maybe we could start by changing qualifying, it seems wrong but maybe qualifying 1st gives you less of an advantage. Instead of being the first on the line, maybe you get the fastest tire to start the race but you have to start in reverse order. At the end of the day, it will make it more difficult for the faster cars, which seems unfair but it would promote the teams to spend less because it may not be as important to have the fastest car anymore. This may also have a knock on effect to making sure the driver is more important, which means it is more likely the best drivers actually make it to F1 and not just how much money they bring.

    Looking forward to Austin! Always believe.

    Forza Ferrari!
    Unbelievable, that has to be one of the best posts here on this forum. Cheers mate.

    Forza!

  26. #446
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    It hasn't been completely down hill since Germany. Ferrari did win fair and square at Spa and that's an engine first circuit. If Ricciardo wouldn't have clipped Kimi after the start we probably would at least had a 1-3 finish. Something happened afterwards. Be it only at Ferrari (going backwards), only at Merc (great development) or something behind the scenes, be it the FIA or something Pirelli has done to the tyres (smells like Barcelona and Paul Ricard). But something happened after the summer break, not prior or during it. The team, Seb and Kimi had shaken off Germany and the Q3 mistakes in Hungary. What might have happend is loss of motivation at the factory (pitwall and driver throwing away their hard work) after Monza but if that's a fact then it's very unprofessional. You simply just don't turn out bad parts and updates if your home race goes wrong. The updates that came later were in the pipeline way before Monza anyway.

    Something is up and I hope someone spills the beans so to speak so we at least find out the truth. You just don't go from the Spa performance and a front row lockout at Monza to the performance at Singapore, Russia and Japan in the space of one and a half month by going backwards by a 0,5-1 second.

  27. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Unbelievable, that has to be one of the best posts here on this forum. Cheers mate.

    Forza!
    I am very sick of Hamilton fanboys.They think that winning gp in which he is participating as his birthright and immense talent.Look at the fan base of immense and has cult following.Look at here opinion is divided and most of them are belittling vettel and his accomplishments.I am supporting him for not being vettelbut, a Ferrari driver.And second he is not badmouthing the team or their strategies now think about Hamilton and how he made vowles to say sorry during a gp which driver you want.Mercedes supports Hamilton because of his market potential due to his lifestyle and Americans like him.It is a big market for mgp.Look at our team it not driver oriented.It is passion driven.The only top team which is.The other two top teams are market driven that's why they are driver dependent.Vettel is a racing driver and he will go by his racing instinct.He is not a machine to calculate and assess risks.When u see how mgp works it is around Hamilton they will do whatever to please him.They will sacrifice bottas's ,self respect of strategists,lie about the performance of their cars to please him and his fans.Even in this forum sizable members believe he is invincible.But,the reality is not.For God's sake support our drivers.

  28. #448
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    For God sake yes support our drivers !!! Remember Rubens!! My favorite here at the time. He actually drove for Ferrari! WCC is what counts.

  29. #449
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    So happy I stayed in bed. Didn't even record this cluster. What a complete and utter joke. Total unraveling. Possibly the worst I can remember.
    Liberty-Guns-Beer-Trump... & Ferrari.

  30. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    This is what I was referring to my earlier posts. There was a gap he went for it. As you know mad max is always mad, he will not give his place at wtever cost it may be. This is part of racing. Saw with kimi-max.

    DR passed few cars at the turn, yes but it was not top cars. Top cars wouldn’t give that place easily. Perhaps mad max was more aggressive, he would have avoided the incident but he doesn’t want to.

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