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Thread: 2018 Abu Dhabi GP: RACE

  1. #271
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    After everything was said and done, we ended up second best for all the aforementioned reasons. Had we had the best car and the best drivers, we would have both championships. Obviously we know Mercedes/Ham was the winning combo. Ham acted rationally (for the most) throughout the season. Case in point, when he rejoined the pack after pitting for new tires, he overtook Max only to lose that position a few seconds later. Lewis knew that fighting Max was not a good strategy so he let him go fully aware that he needn't stop again while Max was going to do it a few laps later. That kind of attitude kept him out of trouble.

    Mercedes, on the other hand, had the upper hand in qualy and a very strong pace during the race so all that was required from the drivers was to keep the cars on the road, avoiding costly mistakes. At least one them did precisely that and that's why he's now a 5-time world champion.

    Perhaps the chemistry in Maranello will have a favorable shift with the inclusion of Charles who seems to possess a well developed racecraft. I'm betting things will get progressively better for our team.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noquarter View Post
    It is simple. Mercedes won because Hamilton is definitely a better driver than Vettel. Not because Mercedes is in a different league. Have a look at Bottas results. Max or Alonso in this year's Ferrari would be champions.
    If you look at the quali performances between Ham & vettel there’s tiny difference.
    Yes ham extracting everything out of the car, but should acknowledge that mercs is the fastest car. At times ferrari was the best.
    As a team, mercs backed ham a lot than ferrari backing vettel.
    Ham was helped by bottas all the way. But with due respect ham too out drove vettel.
    Vettel made mistakes out of frustration or impatient etc.

    Overall ferrari as a team lost it interms of development, driver mistakes & pit strategies. They need to overcome this one.
    Then only we can see title in Ferrari’s pocket.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Yeah now I know how everyone else must have felt during the Schumi years Arrivabene said that Ferrari have already started work on the 2019 car and have already done a first run on the engine here's hoping 2019 is finally our year again
    For sure the Shumi years were bad for non-Ferrari fans. However, I think everyone remembers them to be more dominating than they really were. Not to take anything away from those years, but Ferrari never dominated as much as Mercedes have during this formula. Nor did Vettel and Red Bull during their championship years.

    Ferrari Golden Years – 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
    85 Total Races
    57 Ferrari Races wins – 67%
    50 Ferrari Pole Positions – 58%

    RedBull Vettel Years – 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
    77 Total Races
    41 RedBull Race Wins – 53%
    51 RedBull Poles – 66%

    Turbo Era (Formula-Mercedes-Pirelli) – 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
    100 Total races
    74 Mercedes Race Wins – 74% *
    83 Mercedes Pole Positions – 83%*

    *so far, plenty more of this crappy formula to come unfortunately!
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesky View Post
    Just want to puke when watching Hamilton not have to overtake a car to win, as always when there are cars in front of him, they choose to pit in just the right timing for him, so he does not even have to push his tires once. And then Bottas blocking at the start and then blocking the field, so Hamilton can cruise in the front.

    Whats worst is that there are people seriously saying Ferrari had the best car this year - these people need to get their heads checked.

    It was even the first half of the season, with Ferrari and Merc being better on certain tracks, the 2nd half of the season Merc has dominated completely as usual, winning the development race.
    ---
    Rosberg quitting was a disaster for F1, before Bottas there would at least be a fight between the Mercs.

    Mercedes will wipe the floor until 2021. If Merc comes out on top after that, the sport will be dead!
    ---
    No doubt Mercedes have been playing it safe, conserving their engine during the first part of the season as usual.

    If needed, the Mercs could have gone alot quicker.
    You are in a minority position if you think Mercedes were dominant in the second half of the season. In Belgium Ferrari had the fastest car and handily beat Mercedes hands down.
    In Monza Ferrari once again had the best car but Seb made another wheel to wheel error and handed Mercedes the win on a platter. Hamilton shouldn’t have won.
    Singapore was just a mess all round starting with bringing the wrong tyre sets, Seb hitting the wall, messy qualifying and bad tyre strategy in the race. Vettel himself said if everything had gone smoothly he would have challenged for pole so he knows the car had the speed.
    Russia and Japan Mercedes were ahead.
    In the USA at COTA Ferrari once again had the faster car but Vettel earned himself a grid penalty and in the race he made another wheel to wheel error costing himself an easy victory. He had the best pace.
    In Mexico Ferrari were way faster than Mercedes no contest.
    In Brazil Kimi was lapping faster than Hamilton as soon as he got past Bottas and finished a couple of seconds behind the winner. But Vettel just did not turn up all weekend. If he had been his normal self he might have used that car to great effect which Kimi almost did.
    In Abu Dhabi Mercedes had a clear advantage over Ferrari.

    So it’s fantasy to try to paint Ferrari as some huge underdog who never had a chance to begin with against the might of the Mercedes evil empire. Ferrari and Seb had the tools. Ferrari and Seb blew it!

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t View Post
    For sure the Shumi years were bad for non-Ferrari fans. However, I think everyone remembers them to be more dominating than they really were. Not to take anything away from those years, but Ferrari never dominated as much as Mercedes have during this formula. Nor did Vettel and Red Bull during their championship years.

    Ferrari Golden Years – 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
    85 Total Races
    57 Ferrari Races wins – 67%
    50 Ferrari Pole Positions – 58%

    RedBull Vettel Years – 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
    77 Total Races
    41 RedBull Race Wins – 53%
    51 RedBull Poles – 66%

    Turbo Era (Formula-Mercedes-Pirelli) – 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
    100 Total races
    74 Mercedes Race Wins – 74% *
    83 Mercedes Pole Positions – 83%*

    *so far, plenty more of this crappy formula to come unfortunately!
    When Mercedes were dominant they had 2 equal drivers given equal opportunity to fight for results unlike Schumacher who went unchallenged by his subservient teammates. The Rosberg vs Hamilton years were the opposite of boring especially compared to the Schumi years.
    And in the last 2 seasons Ferrari had ample opportunity to win both titles but they have been making some of the most baffling errors both technically and on track. The last 5 years have not been as mundane as those Schumacher years in my humble opinion.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrasher View Post
    When Mercedes were dominant they had 2 equal drivers given equal opportunity to fight for results unlike Schumacher who went unchallenged by his subservient teammates. The Rosberg vs Hamilton years were the opposite of boring especially compared to the Schumi years.
    And in the last 2 seasons Ferrari had ample opportunity to win both titles but they have been making some of the most baffling errors both technically and on track. The last 5 years have not been as mundane as those Schumacher years in my humble opinion.
    I disagree. You say “when Mercedes were dominant” They still are. Secondly, you honestly believe they have had two equal drivers allowed to race? Rosberg just squeaked his way into a championship and Bottas has been playing wingman/lapdog to Hamilton since day 1. Only difference is that Ferrari used to admit there was a clear number 2, Mercedes on the other hand lies and hides it. Toto and crew are the kings of stories.
    ~FORZA FERRARI~

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrasher View Post
    You are in a minority position if you think Mercedes were dominant in the second half of the season. In Belgium Ferrari had the fastest car and handily beat Mercedes hands down.
    In Monza Ferrari once again had the best car but Seb made another wheel to wheel error and handed Mercedes the win on a platter. Hamilton shouldn’t have won.
    Singapore was just a mess all round starting with bringing the wrong tyre sets, Seb hitting the wall, messy qualifying and bad tyre strategy in the race. Vettel himself said if everything had gone smoothly he would have challenged for pole so he knows the car had the speed.
    Russia and Japan Mercedes were ahead.
    In the USA at COTA Ferrari once again had the faster car but Vettel earned himself a grid penalty and in the race he made another wheel to wheel error costing himself an easy victory. He had the best pace.
    In Mexico Ferrari were way faster than Mercedes no contest.
    In Brazil Kimi was lapping faster than Hamilton as soon as he got past Bottas and finished a couple of seconds behind the winner. But Vettel just did not turn up all weekend. If he had been his normal self he might have used that car to great effect which Kimi almost did.
    In Abu Dhabi Mercedes had a clear advantage over Ferrari.

    So it’s fantasy to try to paint Ferrari as some huge underdog who never had a chance to begin with against the might of the Mercedes evil empire. Ferrari and Seb had the tools. Ferrari and Seb blew it!
    The thing With above post is u r trying to put vettel under scrutiny.
    But the Truth is ferrari lost development race once again in the 2nd half of the season combined with Vettel mistakes, ferrari aero package which they had it after Monza was not the best & it took 3-4 races to realise that one.
    Regarding vettel mistakes, as a No.1 driver in ferrari & fighting for WDC & being a 4 time WDC there’s a lot of pressure to perform when the other driver constantly qualifying only 3-4-5th positions.

    As said earlier, there’s tiny difference between ham & vettel in quali performances.
    In race pace, both r equally matched. But the big difference is ham being patient, smart enough knowing when to attack & vettel the opposite.

    Mexico last sector, Abu Dhabi last sector tells you ferrari weakness. In Singapore itself was indicative.
    But mercs have the strong car in every sector. They were able to match RB in final sector which shows the strength of that car.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    In race pace, both r equally matched. But the big difference is ham being patient, smart enough knowing when to attack & vettel the opposite.
    I do not agree. Very few times does Hamilton finds himself in a position where he has to think, understand and analyze the position, one such case was Austria and he completely lost it. Vettel on the other hand was behind Hamilton on older tyres but instead of trying to overtake Hamilton, he opted to save tyres and Hamilton on the other hand was trying to overtake the driver in front thereby cooking his tyres. Vettel was calmly watching all that from behind and once he realized the right time to make the move, he upped his pace and overtook Hamilton.

    More often than not, Hamilton and Bottas lock up the front row and on the other hand, Ferrari drivers always end up in between so they have to try and do something pretty much all the time. All Hamilton has to do is put laps in clean air and bring car home. Annoying Bottas like a true wingman holds off Ferrari all the time.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    I do not agree. Very few times does Hamilton finds himself in a position where he has to think, understand and analyze the position, one such case was Austria and he completely lost it. Vettel on the other hand was behind Hamilton on older tyres but instead of trying to overtake Hamilton, he opted to save tyres and Hamilton on the other hand was trying to overtake the driver in front thereby cooking his tyres. Vettel was calmly watching all that from behind and once he realized the right time to make the move, he upped his pace and overtook Hamilton.

    More often than not, Hamilton and Bottas lock up the front row and on the other hand, Ferrari drivers always end up in between so they have to try and do something pretty much all the time. All Hamilton has to do is put laps in clean air and bring car home. Annoying Bottas like a true wingman holds off Ferrari all the time.
    What? I don’t want to sound condescending but I don’t think you know what you are talking about. Are you actually trying to say a man with 73 Grand Prix wins, the second highest of all time, does not know how to race? I really don’t know what to say. Hamilton in his debut season came into as high a pressurised situation as you can imagine against the reigning back to back 2 time world champion in Alonso and soaked up that pressure with consummate ease. Well, it wasn’t easy but he passed with flying colours delivering the best rookie season in history. He didn’t stop there either. Hamilton is one of the most accomplished wheel to wheel racers ever, and if you watched his very first race in Australia 2007 you will remember him going wheel to wheel against Alonso and passing him around the outside on the first corner. Even in his worst season in 2011 he delivered 2 of his 3 race wins by passing Vettel in China and Alonso in Germany after a few ding dongs with Webber. The man has no weak areas. In fact he is the best of his era and possibly top 5 all time.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by nani_s23 View Post
    The thing With above post is u r trying to put vettel under scrutiny.
    But the Truth is ferrari lost development race once again in the 2nd half of the season combined with Vettel mistakes, ferrari aero package which they had it after Monza was not the best & it took 3-4 races to realise that one.
    Regarding vettel mistakes, as a No.1 driver in ferrari & fighting for WDC & being a 4 time WDC there’s a lot of pressure to perform when the other driver constantly qualifying only 3-4-5th positions.

    As said earlier, there’s tiny difference between ham & vettel in quali performances.
    In race pace, both r equally matched. But the big difference is ham being patient, smart enough knowing when to attack & vettel the opposite.

    Mexico last sector, Abu Dhabi last sector tells you ferrari weakness. In Singapore itself was indicative.
    But mercs have the strong car in every sector. They were able to match RB in final sector which shows the strength of that car
    .
    Set-up has an influence, but generally speaking, Ferrari have been quicker on the straights. So using your logic, that's where Merc's weakness has been relative to Ferrari. Mercedes make up on Ferrari through corners, and Ferrari through the straights. The video streamable sort of demonstrates this
    https://streamable.com/e4d8r

    Imo, the Ferrari car & Merc car have been more or less evenly matched. Ferrari was the quicker car in China, Baku, Monaco, Canada, Italy, Hungary, Belgium Germany & Mexico. Merc the quicker car in Australia, Spain, France, Austria, GB, Singapore, Russia, Japan & Abh Dhabi.
    Bahrain, Brazil & USA too close to call/debatable

    And let's not forget Vettel had superior reliability than all the front runners too, including Hamilton.

    I struggle to see where the SF71H was an "underdog"..Ferrari lost performance for a 3 race period (Singapore, Russia, Japan). But other than this, overall, it was a match for the W09.
    Last edited by ROCHEY; 26th November 2018 at 09:38.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrasher View Post
    What? I don’t want to sound condescending but I don’t think you know what you are talking about. Are you actually trying to say a man with 73 Grand Prix wins, the second highest of all time, does not know how to race? I really don’t know what to say. Hamilton in his debut season came into as high a pressurised situation as you can imagine against the reigning back to back 2 time world champion in Alonso and soaked up that pressure with consummate ease. Well, it wasn’t easy but he passed with flying colours delivering the best rookie season in history. He didn’t stop there either. Hamilton is one of the most accomplished wheel to wheel racers ever, and if you watched his very first race in Australia 2007 you will remember him going wheel to wheel against Alonso and passing him around the outside on the first corner. Even in his worst season in 2011 he delivered 2 of his 3 race wins by passing Vettel in China and Alonso in Germany after a few ding dongs with Webber. The man has no weak areas. In fact he is the best of his era and possibly top 5 all time.
    Yes he performed well in 2007 but then many other rookies also performed well like Vettel and Verstappen. McLaren themselves said in 2011 that they had the best car and Vettel was making the difference so one of his weak areas is consistency. Button and Rosberg have again and again said that the issue with Hamilton is his consistency. In one race, he will be quick and right there fighting with others but at the next race, he will be nowhere. Consistency was the reason Hamilton lost title in 2016 and title lead for 10 or so races in 2017 to Vettel despite having a faster car.

    Most of Hamilton's poles and wins come after 2014 when Mercedes was unchallenged, all Hamilton had to do was to beat his own teammate and 2nd/3rd grade drivers like Rosberg/Bottas. His records before 2014 when he had best car in quite a few seasons isn't quite remarkable. Even in 2013, Rosberg won more races than Hamilton. Hamilton knows how to win but he is overrated due to his Merc Hybrid stint (2014-counting).

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROCHEY View Post
    Set-up has an influence, but generally speaking, Ferrari have been quicker on the straights. So using your logic, that's where Merc's weakness has been relative to Ferrari. Mercedes make up on Ferrari through corners, and Ferrari through the straights. The video streamable sort of demonstrates this
    https://streamable.com/e4d8r

    Imo, the Ferrari car & Merc car have been more or less evenly matched. Ferrari was the quicker car in China, Baku, Monaco, Canada, Italy, Hungary, Belgium Germany & Mexico. Merc the quicker car in Australia, Spain, France, Austria, GB, Singapore, Russia, Japan & Abh Dhabi.
    Bahrain, Brazil & USA too close to call/debatable

    And let's not forget Vettel had superior reliability than all the front runners too, including Hamilton.

    I struggle to see where the SF71H was an "underdog"..Ferrari lost performance for a 3 race period (Singapore, Russia, Japan). But other than this, overall, it was a match for the W09.
    Ferrari was NOT quicker than Mercedes in Monaco. Hamilton himself said that he made mistake and that's what allowed Vettel to get P2. Ferrari was the 3rd best car in Monaco and it was again proved in Singapore. Canada also, Ferrari was slower than Mercedes, an exceptional qualifying lap by Vettel put him on pole only by a few thousands, remember that Vettel was on brand new Spec 2 engine whereas Bottas was on old Spec 1 engine which proves that Vettel made the difference.

    Ferrari was quicker than Mercedes in China qualifying but even in race pace. Can't say about Hungary, what could've happened in qualifying as it was a wet session. Belgium 2018 was a repeat of Belgium 2017, race pace even but Mercedes faster in qualifying.

    Baku was the only race where Ferrari was faster than Mercedes in both qualifying and race. In other races, Ferrari was either faster in qualifying or in race. Bahrain is pretty clear - Mercedes was faster. It was Vettel's tyre management skills that got him victory. Even Sky called it Vettel victory rather than Ferrari victory. Vettel also calls his Bahrain victory one of his highlights of 2018 season.

    Ferrari made a great engine this year but had a very poor aero.

  13. #283
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    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  14. #284
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    Seb & Ferrari will do everything they can to beat em next year hopefully

    Leclerc & seb best combo + Ferrari
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwk360 View Post
    Future teammates?
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

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  17. #287
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    Lewis and Seb swapping helmets video

    Lewis Hamilton & Sebastian Vettel Swap F1 Helmets!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTkSwPRDEJI
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  18. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrasher View Post
    You are in a minority position if you think Mercedes were dominant in the second half of the season. In Belgium Ferrari had the fastest car and handily beat Mercedes hands down.
    In Monza Ferrari once again had the best car but Seb made another wheel to wheel error and handed Mercedes the win on a platter. Hamilton shouldn’t have won.
    Singapore was just a mess all round starting with bringing the wrong tyre sets, Seb hitting the wall, messy qualifying and bad tyre strategy in the race. Vettel himself said if everything had gone smoothly he would have challenged for pole so he knows the car had the speed.
    Russia and Japan Mercedes were ahead.
    In the USA at COTA Ferrari once again had the faster car but Vettel earned himself a grid penalty and in the race he made another wheel to wheel error costing himself an easy victory. He had the best pace.
    In Mexico Ferrari were way faster than Mercedes no contest.
    In Brazil Kimi was lapping faster than Hamilton as soon as he got past Bottas and finished a couple of seconds behind the winner. But Vettel just did not turn up all weekend. If he had been his normal self he might have used that car to great effect which Kimi almost did.
    In Abu Dhabi Mercedes had a clear advantage over Ferrari.

    So it’s fantasy to try to paint Ferrari as some huge underdog who never had a chance to begin with against the might of the Mercedes evil empire. Ferrari and Seb had the tools. Ferrari and Seb blew it!
    What you’re saying about Brazil is ridiculous, vettel almost made pole position in qualifying, and had a problem during the race with his car as was very obvious, don’t know why on earth you’re saying he didn’t show up for that weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Kimi should have beat Bottas by more then considering Max even beat Bottas so not quite sure how you can blame Seb for us losing WCC but who cares really, we will be a much stronger team next year with Kimi gone

    What a surprise that a biggest hater once again trolling. Had Kimi and Max had the same reliability as Seb, they would've been much closer to Sebastian.

    And before you once again start trolling, this is not a dig at Vettel - it means that Kimi had a solid final year at Ferrari.

    Show class, if you can.

  20. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by barzini77 View Post
    What a surprise that a biggest hater once again trolling. Had Kimi and Max had the same reliability as Seb, they would've been much closer to Sebastian.

    And before you once again start trolling, this is not a dig at Vettel - it means that Kimi had a solid final year at Ferrari.

    Show class, if you can.
    very well said.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by T99 View Post
    What you’re saying about Brazil is ridiculous, vettel almost made pole position in qualifying, and had a problem during the race with his car as was very obvious, don’t know why on earth you’re saying he didn’t show up for that weekend.
    That’s my point. Almost is not good enough. Earlier in the season Vettel would have smashed pole and won the race. Kimi demonstrated that the Ferrari was faster than Mercedes in the race. So in my opinion Vettel indeed did not turn up all weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barzini77 View Post
    What a surprise that a biggest hater once again trolling. Had Kimi and Max had the same reliability as Seb, they would've been much closer to Sebastian.

    And before you once again start trolling, this is not a dig at Vettel - it means that Kimi had a solid final year at Ferrari.

    Show class, if you can.

    Forza Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Your passive aggressive smiles don't help your case at all. I feel sorry for you.

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    https://twitter.com/LeclercNews/stat...41842548293632

    our boy leclerc overtakes DAni ric
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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    In Bahrain test Vettel already on the wall.

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    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    any live sites?

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