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Thread: 2019 F1 news/rumours

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    I'm sure you are aware of the fact that Ferrari really don't need the extra money they get from FOM for all the years in the sport. Called the "long- standing team payment". Although obviously money never sucks so everyone will take them. Williams also receive a bonus for being, well, Williams. Called "the heritage payment". I believe it's $10 million off the top. If Williams is in a hole today it's not because of lack of funds. They simply just manage the funds they have in a terrible manner. They are the 5th richest team with the worst car so something is wrong at Williams, not in the sport.

    When I wrote "hand-out" I wasn't talking about money. I was talking about dumbing down the sport so the lesser teams can close up the gap. Like standard parts. Standard parts will be charity. That's the same way socialism works, to level the playing field in any society (companies, contracts, gender, race etc). What it ultimately leads to, and have every time in history, is for that society to crumble as the system runs out of other peoples money to uphold the notion of an equal system for all. It ruins everything from top to bottom. Every single time, because it's not a natural state.

    Now, Liberty, FOM and FIA obviously have the right to the sport and can do anything they wish with it. If they want to kill F1, they can and they will. So for the future it might be a good idea for Ferrari and Mercedes (and others) to dust of the old plans for GP1.
    You can’t complain about charity and level playing fields whilst defending Ferrari’s heritage payments.
    It is just hypocrisy.

  2. #392
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    New song by the chemical brothers "we've got to try" for F1 2019.

    I love it.

    https://youtu.be/mRfSM-lv55I

  3. #393
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    Who really cares about the parts of the car we cannt really see being standardised. So what if gearboxes, suspension parts, and other internals are. If this means a fairer, more sustainable sport fair enough. In few years, we could loose some teams. And will not attract others as the cost are sky high, just to compete mid field or the back. That is not a good for the whole product, no new teams, no close racing, no cap on costs will not do the sport/product any good at future fans, teams or even sponsors.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  4. #394
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    The complete economic layout does not allow f1 to continue on this financial path if it is to survive into the future it's current is as follows the have and the havnots and we all know the pecking order of this current mantra for sure something is going to give I hope that when all changes come into play that the winner is f1 and the fans.

  5. #395
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    Drivers being paid a lifetime worth of Millions in one year and then having a bad year anyway, knowing deep down the pay is there waiting anyway. Final results should have something to do with final pay.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Who really cares about the parts of the car we cannt really see being standardised. So what if gearboxes, suspension parts, and other internals are. If this means a fairer, more sustainable sport fair enough. In few years, we could loose some teams. And will not attract others as the cost are sky high, just to compete mid field or the back. That is not a good for the whole product, no new teams, no close racing, no cap on costs will not do the sport/product any good at future fans, teams or even sponsors.
    Agreed, Rob, but it might even end up with standardised engines which would defeat the object of teams like Ferrari in taking part! Anything to do with reducing costs is important but it mustn't go too far and lose those iconic teams, otherwise F1 is dead in the water.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Agreed, Rob, but it might even end up with standardised engines which would defeat the object of teams like Ferrari in taking part! Anything to do with reducing costs is important but it mustn't go too far and lose those iconic teams, otherwise F1 is dead in the water.
    With McLaren and Williams looking like they are finished then F1 is already losing those iconic teams right before our eyes. I doubt the FIA or anyone has any desire to create standard engines as they know that's the end.
    Forza Ferrari

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    With McLaren and Williams looking like they are finished then F1 is already losing those iconic teams right before our eyes. I doubt the FIA or anyone has any desire to create standard engines as they know that's the end.
    Point taken Greig, but I wouldn't be too quick to write off Mclaren as this year's car looks to be a vast improvement. Of course we've already lost many iconic teams like Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell, Matra, the list goes on and those were the days, those V8/V10/V12 engines that sounded so magnificent just a distant dream! Shame if it happens to Williams, and I think the FIA has to stand up to Liberty media if F1 is to continue as we know it, it's already being turned into a circus.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Agreed, Rob, but it might even end up with standardised engines which would defeat the object of teams like Ferrari in taking part! Anything to do with reducing costs is important but it mustn't go too far and lose those iconic teams, otherwise F1 is dead in the water.
    Leave the engine "the heart" of the car alone. Merc and Ferrari Renualt make them. But the rest, fuel systems, gearbox the gearbox internals, suspension parts. Put out to vendors. Reduce the costs that ways. As i said in above post. The costs the teams are spending on, lets face it, parts that the average fan doesnt see and maybe do not really care about is silly. As long as Ferrari makes the engine and the car, thats fine with me. If they source out other parts as mentioned, fine aswell.
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  10. #400
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    RE: the Mission Winnow logo

    MotoGP is underway at Qatar and both Ducati's with the Mission Winnow logo are on course. Investigation is still going.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Who really cares about the parts of the car we cannt really see being standardised. So what if gearboxes, suspension parts, and other internals are. If this means a fairer, more sustainable sport fair enough. In few years, we could loose some teams. And will not attract others as the cost are sky high, just to compete mid field or the back. That is not a good for the whole product, no new teams, no close racing, no cap on costs will not do the sport/product any good at future fans, teams or even sponsors.
    So you're going to use Greig's approach of "who cares"? Apparently a lot of fans care judging by the posts in this forum and others. You can't see the engine either...

    The thing is, why now? Most people never really ask the right questions. Why not prior to the 6th Concorde agreement in 2009? Why not prior to the 7th Concorde agreement in 2013 (the current one)? What has really changed except for the ownership of F1 changing? Well, some fundamental things have changed. Like Ron Dennis and Frank Williams not running McLaren and Williams anymore. They have handed them over to incompetent hacks who most likely will run them into the ground no matter what. Say what you will about Ron and Frank but at least they knew how to run their teams. We also have Haas coming in, a restructured Sauber into Alfa Romeo and Renault throwing more money attheir F1 project than before. Haas, a new team has beaten McLaren two years in a row. So it's not about new teams not being able to do it. They can if they are run be the right people. All of this is a threat to McLaren and Williams in the long run and they obviously can't handle it. So they have to be saved by socialistic "hand-outs" by dumbing down the sport. Why wasn't F1 "saved" so many time before (Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell etc)? Did F1 die because they went away? What is so bad about survival of the fittest? That's how nature works so why shouldn't the pinnacle of racing work like that as well? We already have enough spec. series in racing.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Agreed, Rob, but it might even end up with standardised engines which would defeat the object of teams like Ferrari in taking part! Anything to do with reducing costs is important but it mustn't go too far and lose those iconic teams, otherwise F1 is dead in the water.
    You're right Wisepie and Ferrari have always "rolled their own" so our reputation and history stand to lose more than other teams except maybe for MB but they have only dipped their toes into F1 (as full constructors) from time to time while Ferrari has been all in since day one of the modern era (1950).

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    So you're going to use Greig's approach of "who cares"? Apparently a lot of fans care judging by the posts in this forum and others. You can't see the engine either...

    The thing is, why now? Most people never really ask the right questions. Why not prior to the 6th Concorde agreement in 2009? Why not prior to the 7th Concorde agreement in 2013 (the current one)? What has really changed except for the ownership of F1 changing? Well, some fundamental things have changed. Like Ron Dennis and Frank Williams not running McLaren and Williams anymore. They have handed them over to incompetent hacks who most likely will run them into the ground no matter what. Say what you will about Ron and Frank but at least they knew how to run their teams. We also have Haas coming in, a restructured Sauber into Alfa Romeo and Renault throwing more money attheir F1 project than before. Haas, a new team has beaten McLaren two years in a row. So it's not about new teams not being able to do it. They can if they are run be the right people. All of this is a threat to McLaren and Williams in the long run and they obviously can't handle it. So they have to be saved by socialistic "hand-outs" by dumbing down the sport. Why wasn't F1 "saved" so many time before (Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell etc)? Did F1 die because they went away? What is so bad about survival of the fittest? That's how nature works so why shouldn't the pinnacle of racing work like that as well? We already have enough spec. series in racing.
    Mclaren and Williams have been rooted in F1 for the last 60 to 45 years respectively and in the state they are in.....it's an alarm bell. More so than Lotus, Brabham and Tyrrell not to mention this hybrid formula is thee most costliest and most complicated formula's and Mclaren and Williams are paying for it. Naturally, they might have a say if F1 goes standard on some parts along with other teams.....I'm sure Lawrence Stroll and his consortium would'nt mind.

    If that Honda engine performs, then RedBull will stop their crying...stay in F1 and would'nt mind either on standardized parts.

    Ferrari, just recently, said it's willing to accept the logic of cutting F1 prize money's share; saying that the money distribution is unfair.

    Something is definitely going on behind the scenes with standardized parts and one of the greatest icons in F1 history accepting the logic of cutting its F1 prize money share.

    If things stay the way they are, then Ferrari and Renault will be the only cars on the grid from a long term perspective. I don't see MB staying since they already have a car in Formula E.
    Last edited by jgonzalesm6; 10th March 2019 at 18:08.
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  14. #404
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    OT: Just watched Moto Gp season opener, what a race (I'd say better than last years which was also spectacular). Overengineered aerodynamics really killing F1, bring back active suspensions and ground effect cars. Make it more mechanical.

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    OT: Just watched Moto Gp season opener, what a race (I'd say better than last years which was also spectacular). Overengineered aerodynamics really killing F1, bring back active suspensions and ground effect cars. Make it more mechanical.

    2021 rules say the aero to produce 5 times less dirty air.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  16. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    So you're going to use Greig's approach of "who cares"? Apparently a lot of fans care judging by the posts in this forum and others. You can't see the engine either...
    Funny you mention the engine, do you not have any problem with teams using Ferrari, Merc engines etc? If you are so against any sort of standardization then surely your view on F1 would have to be work teams only with every part built in house?
    Forza Ferrari

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512 TR View Post
    So you're going to use Greig's approach of "who cares"? Apparently a lot of fans care judging by the posts in this forum and others. You can't see the engine either...

    The thing is, why now? Most people never really ask the right questions. Why not prior to the 6th Concorde agreement in 2009? Why not prior to the 7th Concorde agreement in 2013 (the current one)? What has really changed except for the ownership of F1 changing? Well, some fundamental things have changed. Like Ron Dennis and Frank Williams not running McLaren and Williams anymore. They have handed them over to incompetent hacks who most likely will run them into the ground no matter what. Say what you will about Ron and Frank but at least they knew how to run their teams. We also have Haas coming in, a restructured Sauber into Alfa Romeo and Renault throwing more money attheir F1 project than before. Haas, a new team has beaten McLaren two years in a row. So it's not about new teams not being able to do it. They can if they are run be the right people. All of this is a threat to McLaren and Williams in the long run and they obviously can't handle it. So they have to be saved by socialistic "hand-outs" by dumbing down the sport. Why wasn't F1 "saved" so many time before (Lotus, Brabham, Tyrrell etc)? Did F1 die because they went away? What is so bad about survival of the fittest? That's how nature works so why shouldn't the pinnacle of racing work like that as well? We already have enough spec. series in racing.
    You be happy with 2 Mercs, 2 Ferraris 2 RBRS and maybe 2 Torro Rossos on the grid if all the other teams are run out of the sport from being to expensive? No team, no new manufacturer will look at F1 and think, hell yeah lets spend millions and millions to run mid field and not race for wins or poles. Sport is changing, F1 needs to wake up and see that. Stop being so "pinnacle of motorsport snobbery" that t wll attract sponsors and manufacturers. Done so well with Audi over the years, oh wait. Manufacturers like that, will look at the costs, F1, LMP2, DPi, LMP1 or even the new hyper car rules for WEC/Le-Mans and will see that F1 for the money spent isnt money spent well. See endurance racing the better off option.

    Didnt Tyrrell, Brabham, Lotus and other earlier teams from around the same era, all use the same standard engine? which 97% of all the grid used. The Ford DSV engine.

    You would rather have maybe 2-3 teams on the grid and rest made up of customer cars? then hell, we would have racing series like DTM, and so much team orders and games going on be worthless watching.

    Times are changing, as i said. F1 needs to wake up and realise this. Costs have gone through roof since hybrid era started.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  18. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    You be happy with 2 Mercs, 2 Ferraris 2 RBRS and maybe 2 Torro Rossos on the grid if all the other teams are run out of the sport from being to expensive? No team, no new manufacturer will look at F1 and think, hell yeah lets spend millions and millions to run mid field and not race for wins or poles. Sport is changing, F1 needs to wake up and see that. Stop being so "pinnacle of motorsport snobbery" that t wll attract sponsors and manufacturers. Done so well with Audi over the years, oh wait. Manufacturers like that, will look at the costs, F1, LMP2, DPi, LMP1 or even the new hyper car rules for WEC/Le-Mans and will see that F1 for the money spent isnt money spent well. See endurance racing the better off option.

    Didnt Tyrrell, Brabham, Lotus and other earlier teams from around the same era, all use the same standard engine? which 97% of all the grid used. The Ford DSV engine.

    You would rather have maybe 2-3 teams on the grid and rest made up of customer cars? then hell, we would have racing series like DTM, and so much team orders and games going on be worthless watching.

    Times are changing, as i said. F1 needs to wake up and realise this. Costs have gone through roof since hybrid era started.
    Cost cutting is necessary, but I don't believe standardisation is a good way to do this and it will not be healthy to the sport. IMO.

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  19. #409
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    Watched moto go also boy that Ducati has some grunt what a Stella race absolutely thrilling mission wino great come back from the doctor to finish 5th from 14th 6tenths separated top 5 that racing.

  20. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    You be happy with 2 Mercs, 2 Ferraris 2 RBRS and maybe 2 Torro Rossos on the grid if all the other teams are run out of the sport from being to expensive? No team, no new manufacturer will look at F1 and think, hell yeah lets spend millions and millions to run mid field and not race for wins or poles. Sport is changing, F1 needs to wake up and see that. Stop being so "pinnacle of motorsport snobbery" that t wll attract sponsors and manufacturers. Done so well with Audi over the years, oh wait. Manufacturers like that, will look at the costs, F1, LMP2, DPi, LMP1 or even the new hyper car rules for WEC/Le-Mans and will see that F1 for the money spent isnt money spent well. See endurance racing the better off option.
    You didn't answer my question. Why now, why not prior to 2009 or 2013? F1 has always been expensive in terms of the current money value. F1 has always been about "snobbery", that's what sets it apart from other racing series. It's also a totally illogical and irrational invention in the first place but there has to be room for something like that. Why do people climb Mount Everest, why do people sky-dive, who do people use drugs etc? With all that in mind F1 doesn't have to wake up at all. If waking up means killing it then it's better F1 never wakes up. Sadly, the world is filled with psychopaths who come into power and have to change things just for the sake of changing them.

    Let's say two or three teams fold (McLaren, Williams and Racing Point) and we're left with Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Renault, Toro Rosso, Haas and Alfa (for the time being in the 2020's), then just let everyone who wants to use a third car use one. If only two or three teams could afford a third car then only the first two in every race would score points in the WCC. All three would score points in the WDC. Problem solved. If manufacturers like Audi and Porsche would have any balls they would have entered F1 permanently a long time ago, but they have always been scared.

    Didnt Tyrrell, Brabham, Lotus and other earlier teams from around the same era, all use the same standard engine? which 97% of all the grid used. The Ford DSV engine.
    So what? If McLaren and Williams want to use an outscourced engine today (or gearbox, or any other part), let them. They are already doing it in the sense that they don't build it themselves (except for Williams' gearbox). But they don't have to use a Mercedes or a Renault, use something else, something cheaper. Just don't force it on Ferrari and Mercedes to use the same.

    You would rather have maybe 2-3 teams on the grid and rest made up of customer cars? then hell, we would have racing series like DTM, and so much team orders and games going on be worthless watching.
    As I said above. There is a breaking point when the grid shrinks to 12-14 cars then a third car must be allowed. Ask yourself this, would you rather have F1 as a spec. series with the teams we have now or F1 without standard mechanical parts and with Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and Renault running third cars?

    Times are changing, as i said. F1 needs to wake up and realise this. Costs have gone through roof since hybrid era started.
    In reality times are not changing. The talk of change in F1 is manufactured like all stupid changes in society in general. Costs have always gone through the roof in F1. It was always ludicrous yet it has survived since 1950. I've heard rumors that Ferrari and Mercedes are willing to change the distribution of money more evenly compared to the current structure if the freedom of development of the mechanical parts are left as it is. Neither Ferrari or Mercedes actually need the extra cash. If that's not enough for the powers that are then there's no plan B. Which means the end of F1 any way you look at it.

  21. #411
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    Why now? because if not now it will be late when F1 has no teams left, then you might ask why did we not act sooner LOL.

    You might want F1 to never wake up, very good. Sadly for you the teams do want to keep F1 going and there will be new fans to replace you. They won't care that you stopped watching because the fire extinguisher is standard....
    Forza Ferrari

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Why now? because if not now it will be late when F1 has no teams left, then you might ask why did we not act sooner LOL.
    You're wrong. If the factor of "too late" is about costs then it's been "too late" for decades...yet F1 is still here. Albeit some teams have disappeared and others have joined. You do know there was a time when neither McLaren or Williams were on the F1 grid? Also, why do you almost always end your sentences with LOL? Are you the kind of person who laugh at his own jokes?

    You might want F1 to never wake up, very good. Sadly for you the teams do want to keep F1 going and there will be new fans to replace you. They won't care that you stopped watching because the fire extinguisher is standard....
    There's no law (natural or unnatural) that states that F1 has to be kept alive on life support just for the sake of it. Because that's exactly what is going to be, if they enforce their plan. I'm sure many will still follow "F1" from 2021 onwards but it will be in name only. Also, you do understand that the fire extinguihser comment was a metaphor, don't you? You do know other car parts, along with the gearbox, will be out on tender? Pandora's box is the analogy that can be made.

  23. #413
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    The sport is realising costs can't keep going the way they are so no it's not too late and no it does not make me wrong just cause you say so Yes I am fully aware teams have come and gone but now it's looking like teams will be gone and not be coming back, maybe you are happy to sit on your hands and accept the end of F1 but it seems like the teams and sport in general is not. So it's really up to you to decide if you want to follow it or not as whatever you feel is clearly the opposite of the teams and sport.

    If you can't watch the sport because the fire extinguisher or the gearbox cogs are standard then there really is nothing much more to say is there, as that is what will happen.
    Forza Ferrari

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    I don't support standardised gearboxes or any parts in general. It inhibits technical innovation which is what F1 should be about. We've been having this argument for as long as I've been following F1 - over 20 years - and I'm sure it was there before my time. F1 has never been sustainable which is one reason I keep watching. There's no sense in anyone spending hundreds of millions racing any car yet the fact they do is what makes F1 so special.

    That's not to say nothing can't be done. The main problem is the barriers to entry - this hideously expensive V6 engine is at the root of all the problems in F1. It did not serve anyone but the manufacturers who wanted it in the first place. A NA engine with a hybrid component would have made a lot more sense. The current engine formula is a strong deterrent to new entrants.

    As for Williams? In another time, they'd have been displaced by new teams with better innovation and run by people with ambition and talent and not nepotism. Williams have been stale for too long and the barriers to entry have preserved them too long. Williams should not be propped up based on any historic 'iconic' status as if they were some venerable patron saint of the sport.

    Standardising innovation is going to ruin F1.
    Last edited by The Architect; 11th March 2019 at 15:02.

  25. #415
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    Are gearbox ratios not already fixed anyway? so really what sort of innovation is this going to stop for gearboxes?
    Forza Ferrari

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    There are many dimensions gearboxes could be improved further. Speed, size and weight being the most obvious ones. Gearboxes already have to last more than 5 races, reducing cost. Why close that off with standardisation?

    What next? Suspension and dampers? Was the apparently significant innovation Ferrari did over the winter on those areas (according to reports) an appalling waste of time and cost? I don't want to watch a fixed formula.

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    Pretty sure most of that is already highly regulated, not like we can just put in a 10 speed box, casing and mounting of gearboxes would still be unique so again I am struggling to see the drama or the massive scope for innovation that would be lost.
    Forza Ferrari

  28. #418
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    It's already overly regulated which limits the possibilities, so why inflict a standardised gearbox on everyone? A casual observer may not know the difference but it will be used to ram through other standardisation that will kill technical innovation in the sport.

  29. #419
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    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...ralia/4351175/

    redbull is going to bring more of there big updates to AusGP instead of waiting for China where it was originally planned.


    Red Bull’s motorsport advisor Helmut Marko told the company’s TV channel ServusTV that a ‘fully motivated’ Adrian Newey had pulled out all the stops to get the new parts ready early.

    "Parts that were planned for the third race were brought forward, thanks to all the pressure he [Newey] could provide to get them on to the car for Melbourne,” revealed Marko.

    Marko said that Red Bull was full of confidence about the competitiveness of the RB15, which he reckoned was the ‘best’ car his team had produced.
    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

  30. #420
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    I dont think we have a general f1 thread but this pic is so cool, glad Binotto stuck with Ferrari + Legend MS

    hockenheim 2018 / China 2018 : Never forget how quick Ferrari can lose it all, be humble.
    Positivity doesn't win you championships, whining about people being negative makes you blind!
    lol ignore the bitter old cows ;-)

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